“They Won’t Get Away With This!”

 

The Citizen Free Press headline screams “Alina Habba [Trump’s Attorney]— They won’t get away with this.” The link is to an appearance by Habba on the Fox News Hannity show. I didn’t bother to watch, I assume it is “blah blah blah appeal blah blah blah constitutional rights blah blah blah this will not stand…” Don’t get me wrong, I am very much against what lawfare is doing to President Trump and our citizens generally. It’s just the question growing in my mind about whether or not “they” will, in actuality, get away with it.

When I was a teenager there was this kid who went around bullying younger kids at our smallish church school. When I saw him doing so in front of me I told him to stop. He then shoved the kid one more time for good measure and turned to me saying, “What are you going to do about it?” I punched him in the face. 

I don’t know whether the bully was more hurt or surprised. I think I have actually only punched someone twice in my lifetime. (The other was my brother when we were kids, and it doesn’t really count. If you knew the injuries my brother inflicted on me, e.g., concussion, pitchfork in the hand, you wouldn’t begrudge me the one punch.) 

The punch was certainly a humiliation for the bully and he stopped (at least in my presence). But I wonder, when is America going to deliver the “punch” that stops the outrage against our civil liberties? Do we even have the freedom to move our arm and fist in a manner that can deliver that punch, or have we already become bound and limited? 

An element of Christian faith is that while one is expected to do justice, one is not assured justice in one’s lifetime. I, for one, do not want this generation of Americans to have justice deferred or denied.

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  1. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    We’ve played by the system’s rules for too long, long after the system was corrupted by the left. The “principles” argument, advanced by the NRO and David French branches of the soft left and squishy middle, ignores the simple fact that our lives are finite. Every little capitulation to the ugly left diminishes us, and we will never get that time back.

    • #1
  2. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Well said! This question has come up a lot for me lately: do we (conservatives, Republicans) even have what it takes to fight back and make it felt? Or have we given in to the other side because we don’t have the strength, resources or (pardon me) cajones to act? I know I’m tired of watching the caving in and whining. It’s time!

    • #2
  3. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    Barfly (View Comment):

    We’ve played by the system’s rules for too long, long after the system was corrupted by the left. The “principles” argument, advanced by the NRO and David French branches of the soft left and squishy middle, ignores the simple fact that our lives are finite. Every little capitulation to the ugly left diminishes us, and we will never get that time back.

    I am particularly disappointed in the NR. I haven’t read them in a long time. It seems like they are standing at home plate yelling at the umpire after the stands have emptied and the lights to the stadium have been turned off.

    • #3
  4. Tex929rr Coolidge
    Tex929rr
    @Tex929rr

    Good question.  We boomers were sold out by our generation of politicians a long time ago, yet we kept re-electing them.  So I don’t see how we can do it.  Maybe the next generation (teens) will do it; I’ve read that teen boys are becoming more conservative (even as girls go the other way).  

    • #4
  5. DrewInLowerOrderAutonomousZone Member
    DrewInLowerOrderAutonomousZone
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Rodin: It’s just the question growing in my mind about whether or not “they” will, in actuality, get away with it.

    I’m trying to think of a time they didn’t get away with it. Of a time when they actually faced consequences for their actions.

    • #5
  6. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    DrewInLowerOrderAutonomousZone (View Comment):

    Rodin: It’s just the question growing in my mind about whether or not “they” will, in actuality, get away with it.

    I’m trying to think of a time they didn’t get away with it. Of a time when they actually faced consequences for their actions.

    Well, there is always Jean-Paul Marat and Maximilien Robespierre. But that is going back a long way in time.

    • #6
  7. EODmom Coolidge
    EODmom
    @EODmom

    Rodin (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    We’ve played by the system’s rules for too long, long after the system was corrupted by the left. The “principles” argument, advanced by the NRO and David French branches of the soft left and squishy middle, ignores the simple fact that our lives are finite. Every little capitulation to the ugly left diminishes us, and we will never get that time back.

    I am particularly disappointed in the NR. I haven’t read them in a long time. It seems like they are standing at home plate yelling at the umpire after the stands have emptied and the lights to the stadium have been turned off.

    Rent seekers now. 

    • #7
  8. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Right here at Ricochet, there are those who are appalled that we would not keep playing by their rules. Anything else is just not done. 

    That is times 100000 for our betters running the GOP, who are for this verdict. 

    • #8
  9. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Tex929rr (View Comment):

    Good question. We boomers were sold out by our generation of politicians a long time ago, yet we kept re-electing them. So I don’t see how we can do it. Maybe the next generation (teens) will do it; I’ve read that teen boys are becoming more conservative (even as girls go the other way).

    Boomers sold out the rest of us a long time ago. 

    The richest, most cared for generation in history. The whole of the nation turned to suit the lives and needs of boomers. 

    And that has eaten our seedcorn. 

     

    • #9
  10. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Rodin (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    We’ve played by the system’s rules for too long, long after the system was corrupted by the left. The “principles” argument, advanced by the NRO and David French branches of the soft left and squishy middle, ignores the simple fact that our lives are finite. Every little capitulation to the ugly left diminishes us, and we will never get that time back.

    I am particularly disappointed in the NR. I haven’t read them in a long time. It seems like they are standing at home plate yelling at the umpire after the stands have emptied and the lights to the stadium have been turned off.

    have they even complained at all about this verdict?

    The editors and writers at National Review are for  this verdict. They hate Trump and any means necessary is just fine.

    • #10
  11. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    I read yesterday that Trump’s appeal will go to the New York supreme court and not the SCOTUS. It’s NY, so he will lose the appeal. I don’t know if that’s the end or if he may have other options. 

    • #11
  12. philo Member
    philo
    @philo

    This November is going to push some very important, very individual questions to the forefront for many.  There are very few ways for November to turn out well (even/especially if Trump wins) and dozens of ways for it not to. Best to be prepared in as many ways as possible. 

    • #12
  13. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    philo (View Comment):

    This November is going to push some very important, very individual questions to the forefront for many. There are very few ways for November to turn out well (even/especially if Trump wins) and dozens of ways for it not to. Best to be prepared in as many ways as possible.

    All I can imagine in the way of preparation is to lean on my advisors to protect the small investment portfolio and then invest in mixed metals. You know, that very useful combination of brass and lead. 

    • #13
  14. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    – J6 punishments are more about warning us than punishing them. Hopefully, getting Willis punished will be our warning back. 

    – Our only other method of fighting back is Trump. We need to donate to his legal fund, vote in record numbers, send many more busses to NYC and the rest of the state, and request voter rolls from states that are a source of “snowbirds” then publicize loudly your state will be prosecuting any who vote in both their home state by absentee and in person in their winter home. These are retired people who don’t want to spend their remaining years in jail. 

    – I’m not for trying to beat Dems at their corrupt games.  Instead, I would prefer to have my own games that deter cheating. Put flyers on cars that have out-of-state tags and are parked in obvious long-term locations, not tourist hotels, and on college campuses. Flyers should tell college kids that if they vote in the state, they will be considered legal residents and will be fined if their cars aren’t registered there and the state will check to be sure they didn’t vote absentee in the state if their tags. Flyers for snowbirds should warn the same and that the state will prosecute nonresidents who register and vote there.  Require DL departments to also provide the name and address of all who apply using motor voter. Be sure precinct is notified and precinct notifies old state. Then follow up later to see if they remained on old rosters and later, if they voted. If people use motor voter, give them a handout telling them to notify their registrar if their old state sends them an absentee ballot. Sue states that send absentee ballots after being notified that the person is registered elsewhere. Serve notice we are watching. White collar folks won’t tempt the legal repercussion.

    • #14
  15. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Django (View Comment):

    I read yesterday that Trump’s appeal will go to the New York supreme court and not the SCOTUS. It’s NY, so he will lose the appeal. I don’t know if that’s the end or if he may have other options.

    And he has to pay the fine before he can appeal. 

    BTW, since there is no “wronged party” I’m assuming NY gets to keep the fine?

    • #15
  16. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I read yesterday that Trump’s appeal will go to the New York supreme court and not the SCOTUS. It’s NY, so he will lose the appeal. I don’t know if that’s the end or if he may have other options.

    And he has to pay the fine before he can appeal.

    BTW, since there is no “wronged party” I’m assuming NY gets to keep the fine?

    No idea. I’m just hoping, and might even try praying, that Trump gets his revenge/vengeance/pound or two of flesh in the end. 

    • #16
  17. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Django (View Comment):

    I read yesterday that Trump’s appeal will go to the New York supreme court and not the SCOTUS. It’s NY, so he will lose the appeal. I don’t know if that’s the end or if he may have other options.

    Maybe.  I read somewhere recently someone claiming that the higher you go in courts, the less political they are.  Which could be true, at least until you get to SCOTUS which definitely has at least some political members.  (Although Sotomayor and Jackson had some surprisingly insightful questions in the Colorado ballot case, but they could still ignore all of that and go totally leftist in their actual decision votes.)  Whether that’s true for the NY Supreme Court I don’t know, haven’t studied them.  But even if they screw up, it can go to federal courts as a Constitutional issue among other things.

    • #17
  18. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    – J6 punishments are more about warning us than punishing them. Hopefully, getting Willis punished will be our warning back.

    – Our only other method of fighting back is Trump. We need to donate to his legal fund, vote in record numbers, send many more busses to NYC and the rest of the state, and request voter rolls from states that are a source of “snowbirds” then publicize loudly your state will be prosecuting any who vote in both their home state by absentee and in person in their winter home. These are retired people who don’t want to spend their remaining years in jail.

    – I’m not for trying to beat Dems at their corrupt games. Instead, I would prefer to have my own games that deter cheating. Put flyers on cars that have out-of-state tags and are parked in obvious long-term locations, not tourist hotels, and on college campuses. Flyers should tell college kids that if they vote in the state, they will be considered legal residents and will be fined if their cars aren’t registered there and the state will check to be sure they didn’t vote absentee in the state if their tags. Flyers for snowbirds should warn the same and that the state will prosecute nonresidents who register and vote there. Require DL departments to also provide the name and address of all who apply using motor voter. Be sure precinct is notified and precinct notifies old state. Then follow up later to see if they remained on old rosters and later, if they voted. If people use motor voter, give them a handout telling them to notify their registrar if their old state sends them an absentee ballot. Sue states that send absentee ballots after being notified that the person is registered elsewhere. Serve notice we are watching. White collar folks won’t tempt the legal repercussion.

    The warnings might be useful, but obviously we can’t prosecute anyone for violating those laws and those who can may not be interested in doing so.

    • #18
  19. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I read yesterday that Trump’s appeal will go to the New York supreme court and not the SCOTUS. It’s NY, so he will lose the appeal. I don’t know if that’s the end or if he may have other options.

    And he has to pay the fine before he can appeal.

    BTW, since there is no “wronged party” I’m assuming NY gets to keep the fine?

    He likely has to post a bond, but not pay the actual fine to the “victim.”  If he did that, I expect the money would soon be gone and could not be returned if necessary.  That’s why it’s a bond, the money is held apart.

    • #19
  20. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I read yesterday that Trump’s appeal will go to the New York supreme court and not the SCOTUS. It’s NY, so he will lose the appeal. I don’t know if that’s the end or if he may have other options.

    Maybe. I read somewhere recently someone claiming that the higher you go in courts, the less political they are. Which could be true, at least until you get to SCOTUS which definitely has at least some political members. (Although Sotomayor and Jackson had some surprisingly insightful questions in the Colorado ballot case, but they could still ignore all of that and go totally leftist in their actual decision votes.) Whether that’s true for the NY Supreme Court I don’t know, haven’t studied them. But even if they screw up, it can go to federal courts as a Constitutional issue among other things.

    I don’t have any basis for forming an opinion about Clay Travis’ competence as a constitutional lawyer but he said something about there being no guarantee that SCOTUS would “grant cert.” I checked to the degree that I cared and found that SCOTUS receives between 7000 and 8000 requests a term and typically hears about 80. The odds ain’t good though I believe it would damage what little credibility they have to deny a hearing. That requires 4 votes.

    • #20
  21. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Django (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I read yesterday that Trump’s appeal will go to the New York supreme court and not the SCOTUS. It’s NY, so he will lose the appeal. I don’t know if that’s the end or if he may have other options.

    Maybe. I read somewhere recently someone claiming that the higher you go in courts, the less political they are. Which could be true, at least until you get to SCOTUS which definitely has at least some political members. (Although Sotomayor and Jackson had some surprisingly insightful questions in the Colorado ballot case, but they could still ignore all of that and go totally leftist in their actual decision votes.) Whether that’s true for the NY Supreme Court I don’t know, haven’t studied them. But even if they screw up, it can go to federal courts as a Constitutional issue among other things.

    I don’t have any basis for forming an opinion about Clay Travis’ competence as a constitutional lawyer but he said something about there being no guarantee that SCOTUS would “grant cert.” I checked to the degree that I cared and found that SCOTUS receives between 7000 and 8000 requests a term and typically hears about 80. The odds ain’t good though I believe it would damage what little credibility they have to deny a hearing. That requires 4 votes.

    Considering they took the Colorado ballot case, there may be good reason to believe they’d take the NY civil case as well.  That is, if the NY and federal courts screw it up to that level.

    • #21
  22. Chris O Coolidge
    Chris O
    @ChrisO

    Django (View Comment):
    The odds ain’t good though I believe it would damage what little credibility they have to deny a hearing. That requires 4 votes.

    Roberts talks much about the prestige and history of the Court. In this case, if it gets to that level, the Court has established precedents for striking down excessive penalties. In this case, the ban on doing business in NY for three years is nothing, no one wants to do business there now. Without a victim, I suspect the Court could vacate the entire monetary penalty.

    • #22
  23. philo Member
    philo
    @philo

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I read yesterday that Trump’s appeal will go to the New York supreme court and not the SCOTUS. It’s NY, so he will lose the appeal. I don’t know if that’s the end or if he may have other options.

    Maybe. I read somewhere recently someone claiming that the higher you go in courts, the less political they are. Which could be true, at least until you get to SCOTUS which definitely has at least some political members. (Although Sotomayor and Jackson had some surprisingly insightful questions in the Colorado ballot case, but they could still ignore all of that and go totally leftist in their actual decision votes.) Whether that’s true for the NY Supreme Court I don’t know, haven’t studied them. But even if they screw up, it can go to federal courts as a Constitutional issue among other things.

    Not long age we did learn that the PA Supreme Court isn’t worth a warm bucket of p!ss. I imagine that just might be a good guideline for this case too. 

    • #23
  24. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Chris O (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    The odds ain’t good though I believe it would damage what little credibility they have to deny a hearing. That requires 4 votes.

    Roberts talks much about the prestige and history of the Court. In this case, if it gets to that level, the Court has established precedents for striking down excessive penalties. In this case, the ban on doing business in NY for three years is nothing, no one wants to do business there now. Without a victim, I suspect the Court could vacate the entire monetary penalty.

    Well, Trump might still want to be in charge of the buildings he’s already built there.

    • #24
  25. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Chris O (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    The odds ain’t good though I believe it would damage what little credibility they have to deny a hearing. That requires 4 votes.

    Roberts talks much about the prestige and history of the Court. In this case, if it gets to that level, the Court has established precedents for striking down excessive penalties. In this case, the ban on doing business in NY for three years is nothing, no one wants to do business there now. Without a victim, I suspect the Court could vacate the entire monetary penalty.

    My knowledge in this area is limited but I thought SCOTUS ruled on constitutional issues, and unless there is some constitutional protection against malicious prosecution and excessive fines, I don’t see the constitutional issue. Roberts may punt to avoid appearing to be supporting Trump. 

    • #25
  26. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I read yesterday that Trump’s appeal will go to the New York supreme court and not the SCOTUS. It’s NY, so he will lose the appeal. I don’t know if that’s the end or if he may have other options.

    And he has to pay the fine before he can appeal.

    BTW, since there is no “wronged party” I’m assuming NY gets to keep the fine?

    How is it that he must pay the fine before making an appeal?

    In every large case I know of, from the nicotine/cigarette cases to smaller matters where an individual receives some 25 million for a single accident due to medical malpractice or vehicular failure due to a motor company making a bad product, the companies always made the appeal and then only after the appeals court ruled  did the defendent have to pay.

    Of course the legal world is upside down these days with regards to Trump, so I just don’t know.

    • #26
  27. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I read yesterday that Trump’s appeal will go to the New York supreme court and not the SCOTUS. It’s NY, so he will lose the appeal. I don’t know if that’s the end or if he may have other options.

    And he has to pay the fine before he can appeal.

    BTW, since there is no “wronged party” I’m assuming NY gets to keep the fine?

    How is it that he must pay the fine before making an appeal?

    In every large case I know of, from the nicotine/cigarette cases to smaller matters where an individual receives some 25 million for a single accident due to medical malpractice or vehicular failure due to a motor company making a bad product, the companies always made the appeal and then only after the appeals court ruled did the defendent have to pay.

    Of course the legal world is upside down these days with regards to Trump, so I just don’t know.

    According to this, DJT has to pay before the appeal:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/16/how-will-trump-pay-trial-penalties

    Relevant paragraph:

    Trump will still have to pay the court, even as appeals go through

    Even though Trump is waiting on multiple appeals decisions, he will have to give the court the money to hold on to. If Trump wins any of his appeals, he can get his money back.

    • #27
  28. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    Robert Barnes could probably rattle off a dozen civil rights violations committed by Engoron and James. The question is only whether the federal courts are willing to intervene if petitioned and shortcut the state process if it doesn’t give relief. Its a big “if” these days, but if we have a shred of conscientiousness in the judiciary there is hope. Like the saying goes: “If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.” That needs to be tattooed on the heads of the judges. 

    • #28
  29. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Annefy (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I read yesterday that Trump’s appeal will go to the New York supreme court and not the SCOTUS. It’s NY, so he will lose the appeal. I don’t know if that’s the end or if he may have other options.

    And he has to pay the fine before he can appeal.

    BTW, since there is no “wronged party” I’m assuming NY gets to keep the fine?

    How is it that he must pay the fine before making an appeal?

    In every large case I know of, from the nicotine/cigarette cases to smaller matters where an individual receives some 25 million for a single accident due to medical malpractice or vehicular failure due to a motor company making a bad product, the companies always made the appeal and then only after the appeals court ruled did the defendent have to pay.

    Of course the legal world is upside down these days with regards to Trump, so I just don’t know.

    According to this, DJT has to pay before the appeal:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/16/how-will-trump-pay-trial-penalties

    Relevant paragraph:

    Trump will still have to pay the court, even as appeals go through

    Even though Trump is waiting on multiple appeals decisions, he will have to give the court the money to hold on to. If Trump wins any of his appeals, he can get his money back.

    Thanks, Annefy.

    I wasn’t so much doubting you as still holding on to a belief that we are a nation of laws. (Silly me!!)

    • #29
  30. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    I read yesterday that Trump’s appeal will go to the New York supreme court and not the SCOTUS. It’s NY, so he will lose the appeal. I don’t know if that’s the end or if he may have other options.

    And he has to pay the fine before he can appeal.

    BTW, since there is no “wronged party” I’m assuming NY gets to keep the fine?

    How is it that he must pay the fine before making an appeal?

    In every large case I know of, from the nicotine/cigarette cases to smaller matters where an individual receives some 25 million for a single accident due to medical malpractice or vehicular failure due to a motor company making a bad product, the companies always made the appeal and then only after the appeals court ruled did the defendent have to pay.

    Of course the legal world is upside down these days with regards to Trump, so I just don’t know.

    According to this, DJT has to pay before the appeal:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/16/how-will-trump-pay-trial-penalties

    Relevant paragraph:

    Trump will still have to pay the court, even as appeals go through

    Even though Trump is waiting on multiple appeals decisions, he will have to give the court the money to hold on to. If Trump wins any of his appeals, he can get his money back.

    Thanks, Annefy.

    I wasn’t so much doubting you as still holding on to a belief that we are a nation of laws. (Silly me!!)

    Which is basically what I wrote too.  It’s also pretty likely that Trump would be able to get a bond without having to put up all the money “in cash.”

    • #30
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