Ricochet is the best place on the internet to discuss the issues of the day, either through commenting on posts or writing your own for our active and dynamic community in a fully moderated environment. In addition, the Ricochet Audio Network offers over 50 original podcasts with new episodes released every day.
Palestinians Embrace Hamas
What will it take for the U.S. and Europe to realize that the Palestinians support Hamas? Two recent polls, taken by Palestinian organizations, verify that despite the ugliness of Hamas’ recent horrific actions (from one poll) and its mismanagement of Gaza, Palestinians still favor their rule. Here’s a summary of the most recent poll:
A public opinion poll published on November 14 showed that 75% of Palestinians support Hamas’s murder spree, including rape and beheadings, as opposed to only 13% who disapprove.
The poll, conducted by the Arab World for Research and Development (AWRAD), covered 668 respondents across the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
According to the results, 59.3% of the Palestinians expressed ‘extreme support’ for the actions of Hamas on October 7, while 15.7% said they ‘somewhat’ favored the massacre. Fewer than 13% of the Palestinians opposed the massacre.
But if you think the poll only represented Gaza, think again:
The poll also showed that 68% of the Palestinians in the West Bank said they ‘extremely support’ the butchering of Israelis, while another 14.8% said they ‘somewhat’ support it. In total, 87.7% of the Palestinians in the West Bank have a positive sentiment toward Hamas. Only 10.2% of the Palestinians living in the West Bank have a negative sentiment toward Hamas.
To show how deluded the U.S. and Europe are about creating a two-state solution, consider this data:
One month before the Hamas massacre, the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research published a poll that showed that 67% of the Palestinian public opposes the idea of a ‘two-state solution’ as opposed to 32% who support it. The poll showed that a majority of 53% of the Palestinians support armed struggle against Israel. Twenty percent said they support negotiations with Israel, while another 24% expressed support for a ‘popular non-violent resistance.’ The poll, in addition, showed that if new presidential elections were held at the time, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh would receive 58% of the votes as opposed to 37% for Abbas.
A person can question the veracity of both polls shown here; Arab pollsters are not always reliable in the results they reach. Is AWRAD under the influence of Hamas? Did the pollsters intimidate the respondents to give answers favoring Hamas? These are all questions for which we have no answers.
But this is the data we have to consider. In effect, nothing has changed in attitudes toward Hamas and Gaza and the West Bank. The Palestinians still hate the Jews. They still desire to drive the Jews into the sea. They want the land all to themselves.
How does Israel, or anyone else, convince Biden and the Europeans that their preferred solution is naïve, deluded and will end in disaster?
In response to how the children are indoctrinated, from cdor below:
.
Published in Islamist Terrorism
Convince the administration that is looking to give more money to Iran? Can’t be done.
I guess Iran’s proxies will need to kill a bunch of Americans in Syria first. Maybe then they’ll pay attention?
The problem is that they are not necessarily that naïve, and are acting on political objectives rather than pure reason of what is just and proper. They have constituencies that are not so much pro-Hamas but anti-Israel. They are are trying to finesse the situation where they stumble into a solution where they satisfy their political constituents while arriving at some sort of justice. It’s foolish and ultimately unjust but they have their political necks to keep. Will it work? I don’t know. Depends on how they stumble and recover. At least this is how I see it.
Edit: I should also add that Biden and the Europeans mostly have no decision to make. Decisions are Israel alone, and it’s easier for them to take a political position to appease their constituents that take a stand where they have little control.
I agree with all you say, Manny, except I can’t see a good outcome. At all.
I just added an edit above.
Ultimately it’s up to Israel. If they cave to pressure, then they are partly to blame themselves. I don’t think they will.
The problem could be that they will somehow pressure Israel to make a wrong decision and the consequences could be disastrous. Then again, I can’t imagine that any of the Palestinians will agree to a two-state solution.
Remember: they are holding the supply of weapons over their heads.
Oh that’s true. I can see that being a problem but so far the US has not reneged on any weapons support. It’s hard for me to see the US abandoning Israel here. I know the anti Israel faction is larger than it’s ever been, but it still doesn’t make up half the Dem Party. Biden and most Democrats have no choice but to ultimately support Israel. Again that’s how I see it.
I am not into corporal punishment, but I feel less saddened by collateral damage when the persons committing atrocities have strong support from their communities. That is the nature of war once civilians are targeted to terrorize and dispirit one’s enemy.
We have been discussing for over a month, here on Ricochet, how the Gazans have been raising all of their children for decades to hate Jews and dehumanize them. We have been focused on the Arabs of the Gaza Strip because that is where Hamas is in control. But the Arabs on the West Bank, under the control of Fatah have been doing the same thing. 10’s of millions of dollars poured into those areas from the United States taxpayers go to support the families whose children have “martyred” themselves by killing Israeli Jews. It’s like winning the lottery for an Arab family on the West Bank or Gaza to have a child perform a terrorist act against the Jews in Israel.
In other words, they had it coming to them (or maybe that’s going too far). I pretty much agree. I’m just baffled by the insistence on a two-state solution. Like Manny said, Biden is probably trying to placate supporters.
Pathetic and disgusting, isn’t it, cdor. And somehow, the U.S. thinks that will change when they get their own state. Idiocy.
Edit: I added a video at the end of the post about Palestinian children playing “war games.”
I have no doubt that some will have it coming to them, but I would never assume all (even if I were wrong not to do so).
The two-state solution will never work so long as one state is implacably opposed to the existence of the other state. Biden is doing Biden (and every else be damned).
I’ve been convinced as long as I can remember.
My opinion is that the opposite is true: this is data that we must ignore.
The data that we must consider is that so many Americans believe that we must consider it.
They need to learn some history, so that they understand what it is like to live under a reign of terror. That other countries are not like America, where you can tell a stranger who knocks on your door “No, I don’t support my government” without signing your own death warrant.
I don’t understand your statement, Mark. I think it is hard data as opposed to feelings and impressions in making a judgment about Gaza. Since we live in a time when they aren’t the least interested in the history, or prefer to stick to a myth of history, I think the data is important.
How do you gauge support and reneging? And how do you know? I am asking in earnest. Has Israel begun to run out of advanced missiles, bombs and shells yet? Is it limiting its response due to looming shortages? Has the US delayed or cancelled delivery of any armaments requested by Israel?
I know that the US has said they will only supply 250 pound bombs rather than 2,000 bunker busters. Has this embargo started yet?
Good question. The funding allocated for weapons passed the House and the Senate will pass it either as is or part of an expanded bill. Biden has said he will sign it. Either the House wins and its a stand alone bill or the Senate wins and they are part of larger bill. I don’t see it not going through, though it is possible.
But my point is the type of armaments, not the funding. Aren’t the Israelis being supplied currently? If so, isn’t the US currently saying that it’s limiting the armaments that it sells to them?
They think they are holding the supply of weapons over Israel’s heads.
In truth, Israel is perfectly capable of finishing this war with less precise weaponry and more death while pointing out that America refuses to give them tools to do the job more cleanly.
I wouldn’t be surprised if dropping batches of 250 lb bombs causes more “collateral damage” than a single bunker-buster that actually destroys the intended target.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/most-of-israel-s-weapons-imports-come-from-the-us-now-biden-is-rushing-even-more-arms/ar-AA1k8Aiu
That possibiliity makes sense to me.
That’s what I think, too. But that’s only because of one word from Caroline Glick. She corrected herself from saying that Israel needs bomb, to needs precision bombs. Apparently, as you say, they’ve got enough dumb bombs to do the job, just less precisely with more casualties. But I’m just guessing, really. Do you happen to know the Israeli stockpiles?
I’m not sure. I thought the bill going through Congress was at least in part to provide weapons to Israel. I’ll have to check unless someone knows. Are we giving them weapons now? I thought Ukraine had sucked up existing inventories and needed to make more.
I wouldn’t say they have it coming to them, but they don’t not have it coming to them. The deaths of Palestinian civilians are predictable and serve the terrorists who cause them.
Palestinians will choose what lesson to take from this war, and whether to ultimately blame Israel or Hamas for their lost people and homes. I don’t hold much hope that they will change their stance towards Jews, but I do think that they will be less capable of murder and violence for awhile and I imagine Israel will take that as a win.
What causes you to think they’ll be less capable of murder and violence? Maybe they’ll be too busy digging themselves out. And I’m not confident that “awhile” will be an extendend period of time.
According to Defense News, of the $14.3 Billion,
And
I didn’t add the parts up but it seems almost all of it goes toward munitions.
https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2023/11/02/house-passes-israel-military-aid-bill/
I assume that Israel is removing Palestinian guns, bombs, and infrastructure as they go – and killing the trained soldiers as well. They will – I continue assuming – leave the place more easy to re-enter in the future and bereft of tunnels. Assuming they leave at all.
At the very least, the scorpion will have to live without its stinger missiles for the immediate future.