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On Stop the Steal: What If They Were Right?
So there was this big kerfuffle about Trump supporters somehow trespassing or something, you may have heard of it, it was a little thing, a footnote really, called [echo on] THE WAR OF EIGHTEEN-TWELVE. Thought that would jar your memory.
Alright, it was actually January 6th of 2021, but I understand that it was a murderous affair, making the American Revolution and Civil War combined look like mere disagreements. Before the hyperventilating begins, allow me to say that I was not here at Ricochet then, so I may have missed this, but for those who contend that J6 was a blight, an embarrassment and so forth, please consider the following:
If you will accept — for argument’s sake only — that the 2020 election was indeed stolen, and that the wisdom of crowds, which animates everything from Smith’s invisible hand to the Republic-moderated voice of We the People, had accurately seen and heard enough to convince a great mass of Americans that the Republic was being stolen right in front of our eyes (by the government, no less!) — would you either condemn, condone, or congratulate the J6 prisoners now languishing in DC jails?
I repeat — you who feel that J6 was unacceptable — if you accept, arguendo, that the steal was real: What would the approriate response be, and does this assessment extend to the J6 prisoners, assuming that the steal was real.
I’ve phrased it a couple of ways there, feel free to tear off a chunk that you feel like addressing, but place your responses in the context of assuming that the election was indeed stolen. What if they were right?
Do not let this interaction today between @RepClayHiggins and FBI Director Wray go unnoticed.
Despite Joe Biden’s suspended animation and stupor type interaction with Xi Jinpeng today (which I agree is a very important meeting), the fact that there is evidence that our FBI had… https://t.co/FIr56ECc6h
— General Mike Flynn (@GenFlynn) November 15, 2023
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Published in General
A lot happened that day and some was acceptable and some was not.
Acceptable things:
* gathering in DC to protest
Unacceptable things:
* trespassing into the Capitol
* physical contact with police
* destruction of property
The government also has list of things done that were acceptable and unacceptable, but that is a different thread.
Disagreed. It’s the same thread, each influencing the other.
Also disagreed on some of those “unacceptables”, assuming they were right and there was a steal.
I was about to say this as well. Without government incitement, would the unacceptable things even have happened?
There’s also the matter of people who actually broke into anyplace vs those who walked through doors held open by capitol police.
Yes indeed. “President Joe Biden” sounds like a “fighting words” incitement to me!
At least “President Joe Biden” must really chap Hillary’s backside. That’s the only plus I can think of.
Even if she also believes it was a steal. “Why didn’t they cheat enough to get ME elected?!?!”
It certainly appears to me as if J6 was intentionally allowed to veer out of control for maximum political (D)amage to Trump and his supporters.
Yes, trespassing and damaging the Capital, and particularly assaulting law enforcement, is all on the J6 perpetrators … but the entire J6 as an actual “insurrection” to overthrow the government is a ridiculous political narrative designed and implemented by the (D)eepState to marginalize Trump and his supporters.
The lengths to which the (D)OJ/FBI have gone to investigate, prosecute J6 participants, and the absurdly long prison sentences is nothing short of a disgusting abuse of power …. and the J6 sentences need to be reduced drastically and/or sentences commuted.
And a lot of pardons if necessary, especially for those who weren’t even actually there!
Is it “trespassing” if Capitol Police gave the “trespassers” a guided tour?
What about the law enforcement assaulting the protesters? Four deaths on January 6th were the result of deliberate actions by law enforcement. One woman shot, another beaten to death, and two men dying after law enforcement threw tear gas and flashbangs into the crowd.
Have any of the presidential candidates declared their intention to review sentences for the possible issue of pardons and reparations?
I don’t think that they are comfortable bringing the subject up.
Both can be unacceptable. Cities usually payout money to Leftist crowds treated poorly by police.
All just cowards. All they need to say is that they will review the cases to ensure no civil rights were violated. That sounds benign and noble and is fuzzy enough not to get them in trouble. We all know that most had their civil rights violated, but Lefties don’t think so.
Well, nothing sounds benign and noble and fuzzy enough to avoid attacks from the left.
It would be better if they were uncomfortable in not bringing it up.
Of course not. The only way to avoid attacks from the left is to move further left than the left.
Because I can only give 1 like.
Please, it’s dinner time.
I think she can confidently blame the Democrat party patriarchy.
Unacceptable things:
Government goons inciting a crowd with a genuine grievance to commit some infractions of the law so they could use it to stop the conversation around an election that was rife with massive illegalities.
Auggie’s firing on all cylinders!
I’m planning a new post on Monday. Should be pretty good.
Don (and all others), are the things you listed under “unacceptable” still out of bounds if “The Steal” did happen? That was BDB’s question, and I haven’t seen any comments saying (essentially) “This was unacceptable even if the Steal happened as DJT said it did.”
IMO if “The Steal” did happen, then all of what happened on J6 was justified, and even more would be justified.
ETA: BDB, sorry for “policing your thread.” Hope I wasn’t out of line.
Exactly. That woman went off in a snit, and didn’t issue any type of congratulations to the winner Mr trump.
Of course no one at the networks issued congratulations to Trump either.
When I watched the final few moments of Talking Heads crying at their stations, before Trump made his excellent and appreciative acceptance speech, I never once heard a single person on air at the time say the words “Trump won the election.”
All that I heard these masters and mistresses of deceit telling the public were the three words: “Hillary has lost.” They used a tone of voice suggesting that it was the end of civilization.
For me, the Unacceptable list is based on a truly stolen election, which it was.
Yes, I agree. If “the steal” did happen, nothing less than rounding up the perpetrators and imprisoning them for life (because if I said “execution” y’all would get agitated) should be the consequences.
And the steal happened.
So let’s round ’em up, though they number in the thousands.
My answer is “I don’t know “. I think the uninterest of our institutions in taking the irregularities seriously is a serious problem. Like crime in blue cities, vigilantism will and has emerged, but I’m not happy about it. However, I’m also not happy with the alternatives. I suppose I still hope that direct citizen action won’t be necessary, but my hope is waning.
Zackly. This is where my thinking is on this.
If you think a violent riot is justified to delay a ceremonial electoral vote count, do you also think violent riots are justified to stop courts that are voting to allow election stealing? What about election offices? Is there a purpose of violent riots or is it just the voice of the unheard? People on the right are not good riots.
If “The Steal” happened and there was proof widely disseminated and accepted, and the government were just going along and saying nothing happened and continued the process of installing the loser (which as I understand it is the whole thought exercise BDB proposed), not only riots but revolution would be justified and required.
@bdb if I’m wrong in my interpretation of your exercise please let me know.