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USA: Mind Your Own Business!
Do you find it ludicrous that the U.S. is giving Israel advice on how to handle its war with Hamas? After the way we handled Afghanistan, and our allowing Iran to run all over us in Syria, as we encourage our military to be a bunch of woke partisans—how dare this country tell Israel how to fight? Has anyone noticed how many wars the U.S. has won and how many Israel has won?
Let’s try to look at this reasonably, though, now that I’ve had my rant. First, the U.S. thinks it can cajole Israel into “humanitarian pauses” by subtly threatening to cut back on funds and armaments. In fact, I don’t have evidence of this threat, but it must be in the background. This is so hypocritical: where are all the demands on Ukraine for how they are conducting their war with Russia? Where are the requirements for accountability and transparency so that we have some inkling of how they are spending the billions of dollars we are sending them? Or do we assume they are putting the money into their own pockets and are just turning our heads away?
Then there are the dangers that could arise for those “pauses” in Gaza. It’s ridiculous to bargain with the lives of the hostages—are we honestly going to suggest that five people would be a “fair number” of people to release for a three-day cease-fire? What about the other 235 people? What if Hamas doesn’t release the small number? We already know that they will use whatever time is negotiated to re-arm and re-supply. We don’t even know if, and how many, hostages are alive.
And now the U.S. is getting all worked up about what will happen after the war. Do they truly believe that the Palestinian Authority, with a corrupt leader and questionable attitudes toward Israel should be involved with running Gaza? We already know that Mahmoud Abbas would be happy to have Israel disappear, and he will want something in exchange for “managing Gaza.” Fatah or the Palestinian Authority will also probably have to go through an election again; what if they lose? I am quite sure that Israel will not want to permanently control Gaza, and have already suggested an international coalition; they are concerned with preventing Hamas from rearming and being able to maintain security.
We also know that the U.S. has conflicting priorities. Biden still wants to pacify Iran, so he will continue to take hits from that country indefinitely. He also doesn’t want to take any steps that Iran would not approve of; even now, I wonder how Iran sees Israel’s wiping out Hamas. What will Iran do once the war is over? Will they activate Hezbollah to take over the fight?
As I’ve said before, the US can talk all they want, but it has to be regarded as just talk. Besides, they are pestering Israel in order to gain international approval and support from the radical Muslims in our own country, even though they are only a small part of our population. I wish the U.S. would find something better to do than lecture the Israelis.
How about managing our own borders?
Published in Foreign Policy
Ukraine isn’t engaged in large-scale military action against Russian territory. I wager that is indeed one of the conditions it has agreed to in order to receive military aid.
Just so. Every nation has a right to secure its borders against invasion/terror. Let Israel do what they need to do. Heaven knows we are not doing what we need to do in the USA. Hopefully that will change, but in the meantime we have no standing to advise others — much less impose our will.
Okay. So what? What about how they are using the funds?
The vast majority of the ‘funding’ to Ukraine is in the form of either donated military hardware, where the Ukraine account is ‘charged’ some amount related to the depreciated or replacement cost of the gear, or credits to be spent with US or other Western arms vendors. Very little of the aid is cash.
(I completely agree with your points re Israel, but you’re off base on this assessment of Ukraine. What’s actually in common is that US advice on strategy and tactics re Ukraine’s summer offensive didn’t work out so well. Maybe we should be more humble in telling Israel how to run its affairs.)
Ukraine is not in a good position to criticize these demands publicly, but they are quite creative and do push the envelope. With their own weapons they are more aggressive. Recent success in attacking a shipyard near the Kerch Bridge shows they now have been given new weapons that could attack the bridge but have been given the weapons on condition that they not be used against the bridge itself. Most likely. This is not known for sure. But Biden seems to be playing the same double game in Ukraine as in Israel. We could use a better president.
Okay but look at this critically, without going to the aspect of emotion and thinking that states “Israel always deserves our support.”
Leaving that out of the equation:
Right now, the ratio of Hamas leaders killed to Gaza civilians is 1 to 50.
At that rate, it is a guarantee that much of the civilian population in Gaza will be killed.
Israeli High Command sees this as a good, and a necessity. The Palestinian people have been seen as enemies of any Zionist state going all the way back to the late 19th Century.
Okay, let’s remove the idea that Palestinians are people. Now let’s say for the sake of argument that they are indeed the lowest of the low.
And that due to this status, they should be wiped from the face of the earth.
However, the Arabs in many other nations and Muslims across the world represent a population of 2.5 billion people. This number of people dwarfs the 35% of Americans who support Israel. It dwarfs the number of people who are Israelis.
If for every 100 Palestinians who die in Gaza, some one hundred thousand other people are now intent on avenging them, how has Israel’s security been bolstered? How has the United State’ security been bolstered?
Given that currently part of the reason for some 65% of Americans expressing their wanting to see a cease fire and some discussions to start going on, in part because people are not pleased with the idea of an all out nuclear war, the big picture needs to be examined. And this big picture is not a pretty one.
BTW as much as it needed to happen, we did not get a border wall under 4 years of Trump. Our Border Patrol agents were able to stem a lot of immigration, but if we didn’t install a wall between Jan 2017 to Jan 2021, I have no idea how we will accomplish that now.
Thanks for clarifying, LO. So why are the Republicans demanding accountability from Ukraine? Is that just a way to stall on voting for more funds?
I think you are misinformed about the war, CarolJoy. For starters, they are trying to kill Hamas leaders, but also the Hamas soldiers. So you’re number presents only part of the picture.
Not so. They are not happy about their relationship with the Palestinians, but to say they want all the Palestinians to be killed is not true. Where have you heard that?
Good grief, CarolJoy. Where do you get this stuff. There are a lot of less advanced people in the world besides the Palestinians. You sound like a Leftist. Israelis would never say that less advanced people are the lowest of the low. Where do you get this stuff?
What leads you to believe that any other people care about Hamas or the Palestinians? The Arab world wants nothing to do with them. I can’t think of any people who would want to avenge them. In fact, I’ve heard that a number of Arab countries are quietly supporting Israel.
As far as I can tell, Gaza should just become part of Israel again. Those “displaced” can go to the West Bank (which should also be a permanent part of Israel, but first things first…) or Egypt or whatever, I don’t care.
None of that is likely to happen. Although Israel may move in to Gaza for security reasons, they don’t want any part of it.
Why not, since they apparently had it before, and were using it well?
Have to get all the “Palestinians” out, for sure. But then make it again like it was before 2005.
According to whom?
Isn’t it simply amazing how Hamas has precise figures on the exact number of Gaza civilians killed on a daily basis, while Israel still doesn’t have an exact tally of the number of Israeli civilians killed on October 7? The Gazan statistics bureau is really just incredibly competent. They should teach their cutting edge statistical techniques at the Kennedy School of Government!
Gaza was never a part of Israel. After the fall of the Ottomans it was a part of Egypt. After 1967 it was occupied by Israel but never annexed.
Occupying Gaza was a pain in the neck for Israel. They hated doing it, but did it because they had to do it. They have already stated that they don’t want to go backwards.
Thanks for making me grin, Mis. Hamas and the Palestinians are famous for their “statistics.”
IMO, partly a stall, partly a cover for those who actually oppose the aid. There are apparently already measures in place to track the use of aid, though I haven’t dug deeply into that.
While a majority of Republican voters and legislators support aiding Ukrainian victory, that support has been slipping. Part of it may be due to concerns – somewhat spurred by Kremlin propaganda – about use of the aid. Some is likely reasonable concerns about the ridiculous Federal deficits, though Ukraine aid is a small fraction and quite a bit of it is hardware that is already paid for.
It also doesn’t help that some of Ukraine’s more rabid supporters in the West are also leftists, and can’t resist mixing up their message with contempt for the right, particularly Trump supporters. That they are helping Russia by potentially turning Ukraine support into a partisan issue doesn’t seem to cross their minds.
And let’s not forget that amazing video production outfit, Pallywood! GOAT crisis actors!
Thanks, Locke On. This all makes sense. And yet, what a mess.
Help me out–I’ve missed that!
[ joke moved to a less refined and civilized forum ]
Point One:
The Hamas leaders and soldiers are in the tunnels, for the most part. Military analysts tell us that.
This is why the recent strike that had even CIA toadie Wolf Blitzer upset involved so many civilians perishing for the killing of a single Hamas leader.
Point Two:
Every single American who I have known who has gone off to Israel and stayed in Gaza ended up having their belief in the “Israelis are benevolent or neutral to Palestinians” absolutely destroyed. This includes a very close relative of mine who at the insistence of her Zionist Christian minister, went over to Africa to help villagers there put in irrigation and drinking water systems.
She found out that the equipment that was needed by that Muslim village was embargoed by Israelis. When it came time for her to go and finish up her travels, she continued on to Israel (she is half Jewish on her mom’s side and had wanted to visit the homeland of her people) she made the decision to avoid the tourist traps and went over to Gaza.
Kim Iversen had the same experiences she had. People in Gaza slammed around by Israeli military and police. Stories of how women die in labor because curfews prevent needed med attention at certain times of late evenings and thru the night. Homes being bulldozed with only 20 minutes of warning. The accounts of people who had been forced to leave their apartments and offices when those four office buildings – shiny new and so modern that America’s Assoc Press had decided to lease rooms in them – were detonated into rubble with only a half hour of warning given. (May 2021.)
As far as governments secretly supporting Israel: Yes, could it be true that governments of Arabian peoples might support our side of the war?
Sure it could be – war is a big huge money maker. Like the old saying goes “All wars are bankers’ wars” about the top people in all societies: Arab bankers like investing in both sides of a conflict. Weapon sales are one of the biggest money games on the globe.
That was a spur-of-the-moment joke which, really, was inappropriate for Ricochet. I’ll erase if you’ll erase.
And soldiers, too. How many of them were killed?
The Palestinians, and Hamas in particular, are prone to posting videos that are more or less transparent fakes / propaganda. For instance, some of the ‘hospitalized victims’ shown after Israeli raids where shown in hospital beds with the monitors, IVs, etc. either not connected or obviously set up by someone who didn’t know how. There are some open source analysts on X who seem to delight in following and deconstructing the Pallywood output, for instance see ‘crisis actor’ #MrFAFO in the pic, who has turned up in quite a few different roles during the current conflict. (Search that hashtag on X for more fun…).
And maybe those Arab countries knew what a curse Hamas was to the area. It’s not always about money.
You are totally right, Susan.
How dare we expect to have any influence on our “ally”?
It’s not as if we fund their defense to the tune of billions and billions of dollars, is it?
Shut up and sign those checks, Americans. Right on!
It’s shocking that the rest of the world doesn’t follow our lead. Just give Israel money and weapons without limit, no questions asked. The fact that they don’t is proof that they’re all anti-Semites.
Of course! Thanks for clarifying.
Oh. Jerry. Please go away.
This is already pitifully wrong on two fronts. You’re trying to pre-empt any pushback by pathologizing disagreement, and at any rate, Israel is a modern western ally, whereas Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, Syria, Iran, Yemen and others are simply enemies. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Turkey, Qatar, UAE and so forth are an assortment of variables, some better than others.
“Emotion,” my tuches.