Message to GOPers: Words Are Not Actions

 

DeSantis wrote in a Wednesday post on X that “it is absurd that anyone, much less someone running for President, would choose now to attack our friend and ally, Israel, much less praise Hezbollah terrorists as ‘very smart.'”

In a recent BDB post (who is on fire of late) crystallized a vague concept I had about the legacy GOP and their over-reliance on political debate as a substitute for achieving results. I mean that quite literally.

It doesn’t really matter what we do, it only matters what we say out loud, lest someone get the wrong ideas in their pretty little heads. 

I have often read on these very pages on Ricochet and elsewhere, how Trump should be more careful about how he says things because the media and Democrats will pounce on the wrong interpretation.

This in itself is laughable because these people are entirely capable of making any statement into any absurd meaning they wish.

Further, the fear GOP candidates have of being misconstrued (usually with deliberate intent) turns their statements into mild pablum, full of platitudes and devoid of strength and impact.

This is why Romney lost, and why so many GOPers fail.

Then, these very same pols who have failed to gain higher office, or failed to keep their weasel-ly promises while serving in office, gleefully join the attacks on DJT for being insufficiently vague and nuanced in his speech.

The statement from Ron DeSantis is despicable and clearly desperate. But desperation should not mitigate the reprehensible conclusion that Trump is “attack(ing) Israel” by saying these words.

Apparently Trumps actions are to be completely ignored, and his latest ‘words’, badly misinterpreted, should define his entire being.

(This, by the way, dismisses the amazing accomplishments Trump made on behalf of Israel to include the bold action to move the US Embassy to Jerusalem, the Abraham accords, and granting his Jewish son-in-law  close advisory position and more)

As to the substance, or lack thereof, to the charge that referring to someone being “smart” is ‘praise’ well, I fail to see that logic, and it scares me if DeSantis actually believes we should never regard our mortal enemies as being smart, cunning or resilient. He wants to be Commander-in Chief?

On the second level, does DeSantis believe this absurd attack will help his chances?

That’s not very smart, Ron.

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  1. Franco Inactive
    Franco
    @Franco

    Gossamer Cat (View Comment):

    Globalitarian Misanthropist (View Comment):

    Gossamer Cat (View Comment):

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Franco: I don’t recall Trump ever contorting other politicians positions, including DeSantis.

    Trump and his surrogates began this campaign by insinuating that DeSantis was in the pocket of George Soros and that Andrew Cuomo was a better governor on Covid “because he said nice things about me.”

    What he said. Trump distorted de Santis record on covid as well.

    What I’d like to know is what Trump said regarding Israel, that he was badmouthing Israel. What did he say?

    From the WSJ Oct 12: “Former President Donald Trump is facing criticism from Democrats and Republicans for remarks in a campaign speech in which he characterized the militant group Hezbollah as “very smart” and faulted Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu over a 2020 mission that killed an Iranian military leader.” … “In the speech, Trump boasted of his efforts to support Israel. But he also criticized Netanyahu, saying the Israeli leader “let us down” in a U.S. mission that killed Iranian military leader Maj. Gen. Qassem Soleimani.”

    As per usual, it was Trump being Trump. Trump is a firm supporter of Israel, and I agree that actions speak louder than words, but to be critical at that point was ill-timed. So the remarks were fair game for political opponents, in my opinion.

    This is why I abhor the MSM, and lose respect for those who believe citing some reporter’s perspective, characterizations and conclusions means anything.

    Notice how many words Trump uttered that were actually quotes in this account.

    Total: FIVE

    The rest is the reporters own opinion and framing. Trump “boasted” “faulted” and “criticized”. In fairness,  it wasn’t as bad as most of opinion disguised as reporting. But what’s wrong with quoting longer passages? Is it the price of paper and ink? Not anymore… so what’s the excuse?

    The WSJ is clearly on the DeSantis shortbus. The entire world has chosen sides.

    I don’t think we have much time to be reserved in our leaders remarks. Bibi,  by the way is not especially popular in Israel, and leaders should always expect criticism and be held to account. When 9/11 hit us shouldn’t our Intel agencies have been faulted- immediately? 

    But DeSantis told a giant lie and he should be held to account. Trump never criticized Israel. Or as DeSantis phrased it “attack(ed) Israel”. That’s a blatant lie and not fair game. I guess when he critiques Biden he’s “attacking” the USA???

     

    • #31
  2. Painter Jean Moderator
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):

    I have no way of knowing whether the election was “stolen” especially since there are different definitions of theft in this case, but I highly suspect it was. I never took much time to drill down into the specific charges, but the excuses seemed pretty lame and the counter-charges weak ( conflating lack of standing with conclusions there was nothing there, etc)

    But let’s just imagine there was zero ballot stuffing, and zero organized ‘rigging’…

    Miffed White Male says:

    There *WAS* manipulation of the media and the voting rules. While the media is a lost cause, Trump could have taken advantage of the voting rule changes and had the Republicans harvesting ballots and encouraging early voting too.

    Yes, there was. And it was significant.
    Moreover, the unfair attacks from all quarters throughout his Presidency along with bogus assertions f from the 51 Intel “patriots” should have been enough to rally EVERY Republican around him for the sake of our Constitution.

    DeSantis ignores this by his actions of running against him. It takes this egregious behavior off the table as though nothing happened, and further empowers the March to totalitarianism. It makes DeSantis and his supporters complicit. There’s no way around it. DeSantis cannot defend Trump on these issues without people wondering why he’s running, but on principle , which he seems to lack, he should. That’s what is needed now, Republicans standing up – not for Trump the man or the President – but for our very system of government and democracy.

    The media being a “lost cause” is not a peripheral concern. It’s central, and must be a primary target of any Republican candidacy.

    Yet they, DeSantis and company, will be dancing dogs for NBC soon and pretending these people are legitimate journalists and begging for treats just like they did with Fox. The interlocutors will be very polite and dignified and then lie about whichever candidate is the biggest threat, if/when Trump is gone.

    At this point, I don’t believe any Republican (or Democrat) can win without the express permission and support of the deep state. (The ‘deep state’ is the Intel/media cabal btw)

    My ideal scenario ( won’t happen) is Trump selects Tulsi Gabbard as VP then resigns after his first day in office. That could bring the country together and begin to defang the domestic influence of the deep state.

    But anyone currently running but Trump will perpetuate the same problems, and no Republican other than Trump has any hope of winning anyway . So prepare for another 4- 8 years of more of the same comrades!

     

     

    DeSantis is a smarter, more competent version of Trump. I don’t understand why any Trump supporter has an issue with him.

     

     

     

    Because they’re Only Trumpers. It doesn’t matter who the other options are.

    • #32
  3. 9thDistrictNeighbor Member
    9thDistrictNeighbor
    @9thDistrictNeighbor

    EJHill (View Comment):
    No, he LOST. (If I could figure out another way to emphasize that I would.) He is NOT THE INCUMBENT. HE LOST. HE IS NO LONGER THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE HE LOST THE ELECTION.

    Please do not yell.  We get that you don’t care for Trump, but yelling makes Ricochet look like a bunch of fruitcakes.  

    • #33
  4. Modus Ponens Inactive
    Modus Ponens
    @ModusPonens

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Because they’re Only Trumpers. It doesn’t matter who the other options are.

    I’d invite you to consider other explanations. I, for one, have reasons for thinking DeSantis’ Presidential Run was mistimed and ill-advised. Your explanation certainly does not reflect my position.

    • #34
  5. Kevin Schulte Member
    Kevin Schulte
    @KevinSchulte

    Modus Ponens (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Because they’re Only Trumpers. It doesn’t matter who the other options are.

    I’d invite you to consider other explanations. I, for one, have reasons for thinking DeSantis’ Presidential Run was mistimed and ill-advised. Your explanation certainly does not reflect my position.

    She can’t , she has a template in her head . That Template gets pulled out on any thread about or including Trump. Full Stop !

    • #35
  6. Franco Inactive
    Franco
    @Franco

    9thDistrictNeighbor (View Comment):

    EJHill (View Comment):
    No, he LOST. (If I could figure out another way to emphasize that I would.) He is NOT THE INCUMBENT. HE LOST. HE IS NO LONGER THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE HE LOST THE ELECTION.

    Please do not yell. We get that you don’t care for Trump, but yelling makes Ricochet look like a bunch of fruitcakes.

    Now that you cite it, it’s interesting to me. I’m used to being yelled at from a young age and I barely notice when it occurs and doesn’t offend me. 
    He has a very strong opinion. But he cannot know the facts. Between the media the courts … it’s all political. 
    I can’t say he’s wrong. But but he is sure I’m wrong. I can’t understand how he is so sure of his information.
    To believe so strongly. It could be th

    • #36
  7. Modus Ponens Inactive
    Modus Ponens
    @ModusPonens

    Kevin Schulte (View Comment):
    She can’t , she has a template in her head . That Template gets pulled out on any thread about or including Trump. Full Stop !

    All I can do is put forward my position. I hope at least that reasonable folks who disagree with it will accept it’s not because I’m a blind follower in a cult of personality. 

    • #37
  8. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    9thDistrictNeighbor (View Comment):

    EJHill (View Comment):
    No, he LOST. (If I could figure out another way to emphasize that I would.) He is NOT THE INCUMBENT. HE LOST. HE IS NO LONGER THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE HE LOST THE ELECTION.

    Please do not yell. We get that you don’t care for Trump, but yelling makes Ricochet look like a bunch of fruitcakes.

    There are a lot of things making Ricochet look like a bunch of fruitcakes lately.  Yelling ain’t one of them

    • #38
  9. Franco Inactive
    Franco
    @Franco

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    9thDistrictNeighbor (View Comment):

    EJHill (View Comment):
    No, he LOST. (If I could figure out another way to emphasize that I would.) He is NOT THE INCUMBENT. HE LOST. HE IS NO LONGER THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE HE LOST THE ELECTION.

    Please do not yell. We get that you don’t care for Trump, but yelling makes Ricochet look like a bunch of fruitcakes.

    There are a lot of things making Ricochet look like a bunch of fruitcakes lately. Yelling ain’t one of them

    The idea that commenters can make a web forum “look bad” is indicative of the entire legacy GOP. How do these dolts let themselves be bullied so easily?

    Who cares what they think!

    • #39
  10. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    DrewInWisconsin, Demagogue (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Demagogue (View Comment):

    I’m not a Trump hater. I voted for him twice.

    The latter statement doesn’t negate the former.

    I see you’re descending into “Just because you married a black woman doesn’t mean you’re not a racist” territory.

    I fail to see the equivalence. A vote is not marriage.

    Look up the word “analogy”.  

    • #40
  11. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Franco (View Comment):
    DeSantis ignores this by his actions of running against him.

    This is another reason why I like DeSantis.  Nobody is owed the nomination.   I don’t like it when Karl Rove makes the argument that we should unite behind the anointed candidate of the GOPe, and I don’t like it when Trump supporters make it.  Let the candidates fight it out.   

    • #41
  12. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Modus Ponens (View Comment):

    Speaking as one who has supported both for their respective offices, I think that DeSantis’ run for President was ill-advised and will possibly hamper his chances should he run again in the next cycle.

    I don’t think Trump supporters are so petty that they would hold that against DeSantis in the future.

     

    My opinion has long been that the GOP donor class wanted to pit DeSantis against Trump for their own benefit and not because they thought he could realistically win. 

    I know of no reason to believe that.  

    DeSantis’ best shot at becoming an effective President was to finish out his second Term and run in 4 years. He would’ve had the full support of Trump and the conservative base.

    I know of no reason to think that that would have been a better way to do it. 

    • #42
  13. Gossamer Cat Coolidge
    Gossamer Cat
    @GossamerCat

    Franco (View Comment):
    This is why I abhor the MSM, and lose respect for those who believe citing some reporter’s perspective, characterizations and conclusions means anything.

    Alright then, here is the full transcript:  https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-speaks-at-campaign-event-in-derry-new-hampshire-transcript.

    Franco (View Comment):

    killed an Iranian military leader.” … “In the speech, Trump boasted of his efforts to support Israel. But he also criticized Netanyahu, saying the Israeli leader “let us down” in a U.S. mission that killed Iranian military leader Maj. Gen. Qassem Soleimani.”

    As per usual, it was Trump being Trump. Trump is a firm supporter of Israel, and I agree that actions speak louder than words, but to be critical at that point was ill-timed. So the remarks were fair game for political opponents, in my opinion.

    This is why I abhor the MSM, and lose respect for those who believe citing some reporter’s perspective, characterizations and conclusions means anything.

    I always check sources but Trump’s speeches are so long and rambling that it isn’t always easy.  But I listened to the part of the speech (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JGZoA3nr5U at 42 min approximately) that the reporter quotes and he is accurate.  Trump did say that Netanyahu let us down by backing out of the strike on Soleimani at the last minute and that it was a very terrible thing – and then went on to say that Netanyahu then took credit for it which didn’t make him feel too good. 

    Yes, it was a small part of a very long speech, but the rest of the speech was similar:  all about Trump.  But the attack was so horrific, it wasn’t the time for making it all about him.   

    His remark about Hezbollah being smart earlier in the speech didn’t bother me – adversaries can be smart.  But neither did it bother me that his political rivals pounced on it.  Because he did say it and he acknowledged that people would get upset about it.  And they did. 

     

    • #43
  14. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    If a candidate is too fragile to deal with opposition in his own party, he’s probably too fragile everywhere else, too.

    • #44
  15. Globalitarian Misanthropist Coolidge
    Globalitarian Misanthropist
    @Flicker

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Demagogue (View Comment):

    I’m not a Trump hater. I voted for him twice.

    The latter statement doesn’t negate the former.

    I see you’re descending into “Just because you married a black woman doesn’t mean you’re not a racist” territory.

    You’re forgetting arranged marriages.  A lot of people say they didn’t love Trump, didn’t like Trump, didn’t want to vote for him, but had to for other reasons.

    • #45
  16. Globalitarian Misanthropist Coolidge
    Globalitarian Misanthropist
    @Flicker

    Franco (View Comment):

    Gossamer Cat (View Comment):

    Globalitarian Misanthropist (View Comment):

    Gossamer Cat (View Comment):

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Franco: I don’t recall Trump ever contorting other politicians positions, including DeSantis.

    Trump and his surrogates began this campaign by insinuating that DeSantis was in the pocket of George Soros and that Andrew Cuomo was a better governor on Covid “because he said nice things about me.”

    What he said. Trump distorted de Santis record on covid as well.

    What I’d like to know is what Trump said regarding Israel, that he was badmouthing Israel. What did he say?

    From the WSJ Oct 12: “Former President Donald Trump is facing criticism from Democrats and Republicans for remarks in a campaign speech in which he characterized the militant group Hezbollah as “very smart” and faulted Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu over a 2020 mission that killed an Iranian military leader.” … “In the speech, Trump boasted of his efforts to support Israel. But he also criticized Netanyahu, saying the Israeli leader “let us down” in a U.S. mission that killed Iranian military leader Maj. Gen. Qassem Soleimani.”

    As per usual, it was Trump being Trump. Trump is a firm supporter of Israel, and I agree that actions speak louder than words, but to be critical at that point was ill-timed. So the remarks were fair game for political opponents, in my opinion.

    This is why I abhor the MSM, and lose respect for those who believe citing some reporter’s perspective, characterizations and conclusions means anything.

    Notice how many words Trump uttered that were actually quotes in this account.

    Total: FIVE

    The rest is the reporters own opinion and framing. Trump “boasted” “faulted” and “criticized”. In fairness, it wasn’t as bad as most of opinion disguised as reporting. But what’s wrong with quoting longer passages? Is it the price of paper and ink? Not anymore… so what’s the excuse?

    The WSJ is clearly on the DeSantis shortbus. The entire world has chosen sides.

    I don’t think we have much time to be reserved in our leaders remarks. Bibi, by the way is not especially popular in Israel, and leaders should always expect criticism and be held to account. When 9/11 hit us shouldn’t our Intel agencies have been faulted- immediately?

    But DeSantis told a giant lie and he should be held to account. Trump never criticized Israel. Or as DeSantis phrased it “attack(ed) Israel”. That’s a blatant lie and not fair game. I guess when he critiques Biden he’s “attacking” the USA???

    Thanks.  I think I actually saw that speech.  As I remember it, he wasn’t angry, or sarcastic, or hand-wringing; he was just stating something factually.  Don’t remember what the context was, but Trump often makes asides, both critical and in praise.

    • #46
  17. Globalitarian Misanthropist Coolidge
    Globalitarian Misanthropist
    @Flicker

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    DeSantis is a smarter, more competent version of Trump. I don’t understand why any Trump supporter has an issue with him.

    Because they’re Only Trumpers. It doesn’t matter who the other options are.

    Okay.  I wanted to correct MWM’s thoughtless misstatement but thought, Why bother.  But since you made it personal, I’m sure, this is mindless, emotionally satisfying, gossiping bull.  You don’t have any idea how smart Trump is, or what kind of smarts you’re comparing.

    Yes, DeSantis is an up-from-nothing Harvard grad near top of his class  He was a great governor.  By this standard and only this standard (which is a pretty high bar) he is very smart.  And he has committed no impropriety.

    But Trump inherited what?  A million?  Some say 10 million?  And he turned it into a Billion.  Some say 2.9 million.  Trump says 10 billion.  Even if it was just one billion, by this and only this standard (which is a high bar) he is very smart.  And this was without any financial scandal.  His worst enemies can’t find any impropriety (despite this financial kangaroo court going on right now).

    He has accomplished far more that DeSantis.  But he’s had more time to do it so far.  But what will DeSantis ever accomplish?  He’ll become president of the United States.  That’s an extremely high bar.

    But Trump has already done this.  And without any political experience.  And without any help from mega-donors or a fawning (or even a fair) press and despite a real-world CIA campaign to thwart him.  (He lost his second election and even that’s a matter of dispute.)

    Trump shoots off his mouth, and people like it — enough people to vote for him.  DeSantis shoots off his mouth, and there is no way to explain it — and it turns people off, including DeSantis’ mega-donors.

    Who’s smarter?  It’s hard to say.  But I’d say, in a real-world game of chess? — to the social, political and financial death? — to accomplish conservative goals? — to be president? — I think Trump’s already won this one.  And would do it again.

    And I don’t think DeSantis stands a chance against Newsom.

     

    • #47
  18. Globalitarian Misanthropist Coolidge
    Globalitarian Misanthropist
    @Flicker

    Gossamer Cat (View Comment):
    Yes, it was a small part of a very long speech, but the rest of the speech was similar:  all about Trump

    Yeah, you’d think he’s running for president or something.  And least he’s never to my recollection referred to himself out of the blue in the third person.  Neither has DeSantis, and good for him, but it takes a narcissist or a high degree of personality dissociation to do that habitually.

    • #48
  19. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Franco: I don’t recall Trump ever contorting other politicians positions, including DeSantis.

    Trump and his surrogates began this campaign by insinuating that DeSantis was in the pocket of George Soros and that Andrew Cuomo was a better governor on Covid “because he said nice things about me.”

    Franco: Trump is the de facto incumbent…

    No, he LOST. (If I could figure out another way to emphasize that I would.) He is NOT THE INCUMBENT. HE LOST. HE IS NO LONGER THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE HE LOST THE ELECTION.

     

     Is shouting now allowed for employees but not allowed for members? 

     

    • #49
  20. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Modus Ponens (View Comment):

     

    I said “de facto incumbent”.

    Thix

    • #50
  21. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):

    I have no way of knowing whether the election was “stolen” especially since there are different definitions of theft in this case, but I highly suspect it was. I never took much time to drill down into the specific charges, but the excuses seemed pretty lame and the counter-charges weak ( conflating lack of standing with conclusions there was nothing there, etc)

    But let’s just imagine there was zero ballot stuffing, and zero organized ‘rigging’…

    Miffed White Male says:

    There *WAS* manipulation of the media and the voting rules. While the media is a lost cause, Trump could have taken advantage of the voting rule changes and had the Republicans harvesting ballots and encouraging early voting too.

    Yes, there was. And it was significant.
    Moreover, the unfair attacks from all quarters throughout his Presidency along with bogus assertions f from the 51 Intel “patriots” should have been enough to rally EVERY Republican around him for the sake of our Constitution.

    DeSantis ignores this by his actions of running against him. It takes this egregious behavior off the table as though nothing happened, and further empowers the March to totalitarianism. It makes DeSantis and his supporters complicit. There’s no way around it. DeSantis cannot defend Trump on these issues without people wondering why he’s running, but on principle , which he seems to lack, he should. That’s what is needed now, Republicans standing up – not for Trump the man or the President – but for our very system of government and democracy.

    The media being a “lost cause” is not a peripheral concern. It’s central, and must be a primary target of any Republican candidacy.

    Yet they, DeSantis and company, will be dancing dogs for NBC soon and pretending these people are legitimate journalists and begging for treats just like they did with Fox. The interlocutors will be very polite and dignified and then lie about whichever candidate is the biggest threat, if/when Trump is gone.

    At this point, I don’t believe any Republican (or Democrat) can win without the express permission and support of the deep state. (The ‘deep state’ is the Intel/media cabal btw)

    My ideal scenario ( won’t happen) is Trump selects Tulsi Gabbard as VP then resigns after his first day in office. That could bring the country together and begin to defang the domestic influence of the deep state.

    But anyone currently running but Trump will perpetuate the same problems, and no Republican other than Trump has any hope of winning anyway . So prepare for another 4- 8 years of more of the same comrades!

    DeSantis is a smarter, more competent version of Trump. I don’t understand why any Trump supporter has an issue with him.

    Because they’re Only Trumpers. It doesn’t matter who the other options are.

    Oh?

    I’d vote for DeSantis in the general.  I think most Trump supporters would.

    • #51
  22. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens
    • #52
  23. DrewInWisconsin, Demagogue Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Demagogue
    @DrewInWisconsin

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Demagogue (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Demagogue (View Comment):

    I’m not a Trump hater. I voted for him twice.

    The latter statement doesn’t negate the former.

    I see you’re descending into “Just because you married a black woman doesn’t mean you’re not a racist” territory.

    I fail to see the equivalence. A vote is not marriage.

    Look up the word “analogy”.

    I guess for some people, they’ll only vote for someone they’d marry. Not me. I vote for someone to do the proper job.

    • #53
  24. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Globalitarian Misanthropist (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    DeSantis is a smarter, more competent version of Trump. I don’t understand why any Trump supporter has an issue with him.

    Because they’re Only Trumpers. It doesn’t matter who the other options are.

    Okay. I wanted to correct MWM’s thoughtless misstatement but thought, Why bother. But since you made it personal, I’m sure, this is mindless, emotionally satisfying, gossiping bull. You don’t have any idea how smart Trump is, or what kind of smarts you’re comparing.

    Yes, DeSantis is an up-from-nothing Harvard grad near top of his class He was a great governor. By this standard and only this standard (which is a pretty high bar) he is very smart. And he has committed no impropriety.

    But Trump inherited what? A million? Some say 10 million? And he turned it into a Billion. Some say 2.9 million. Trump says 10 billion. Even if it was just one billion, by this and only this standard (which is a high bar) he is very smart. And this was without any financial scandal. His worst enemies can’t find any impropriety (despite this financial kangaroo court going on right now).

    He has accomplished far more that DeSantis. But he’s had more time to do it so far. But what will DeSantis ever accomplish? He’ll become president of the United States. That’s an extremely high bar.

    But Trump has already done this. And without any political experience. And without any help from mega-donors or a fawning (or even a fair) press and despite a real-world CIA campaign to thwart him. (He lost his second election and even that’s a matter of dispute.)

    Trump shoots off his mouth, and people like it — enough people to vote for him. DeSantis shoots off his mouth, and there is no way to explain it — and it turns people off, including DeSantis’ mega-donors.

    Who’s smarter? It’s hard to say. But I’d say, in a real-world game of chess? — to the social, political and financial death? — to accomplish conservative goals? — to be president? — I think Trump’s already won this one. And would do it again.

    And I don’t think DeSantis stands a chance against Newsom.

     

    DeSantis would wipe the floor with Newsome. So there. 

    • #54
  25. Modus Ponens Inactive
    Modus Ponens
    @ModusPonens

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Modus Ponens (View Comment):

    Speaking as one who has supported both for their respective offices, I think that DeSantis’ run for President was ill-advised and will possibly hamper his chances should he run again in the next cycle.

    I don’t think Trump supporters are so petty that they would hold that against DeSantis in the future.

     

    My opinion has long been that the GOP donor class wanted to pit DeSantis against Trump for their own benefit and not because they thought he could realistically win.

    I know of no reason to believe that.

    DeSantis’ best shot at becoming an effective President was to finish out his second Term and run in 4 years. He would’ve had the full support of Trump and the conservative base.

    I know of no reason to think that that would have been a better way to do it.

    I don’t intend to argue the point too much here, since this is just my reading of the situation. However, it is my answer to why a Trump supporter might have an issue with DeSantis, though I qualify that my issue is not with DeSantis himself and more with the timing of his run and my suspicions about the motives of those advising him. It seems clear to me that DeSantis was floated as the “Reasonable” alternative in a bid to knock Trump out of the running. It’s a classic divide and conquer strategy to destroy the populist movement, just like what happened to the Tea Party.

    • #55
  26. Modus Ponens Inactive
    Modus Ponens
    @ModusPonens

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    If a candidate is too fragile to deal with opposition in his own party, he’s probably too fragile everywhere else, too.

    Would you apply this same rule to McCarthy?

    • #56
  27. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    Globalitarian Misanthropist (View Comment):

    Gossamer Cat (View Comment):
    Yes, it was a small part of a very long speech, but the rest of the speech was similar: all about Trump.

    Yeah, you’d think he’s running for president or something. And least he’s never to my recollection referred to himself out of the blue in the third person. Neither has DeSantis, and good for him, but it takes a narcissist or a high degree of personality dissociation to do that habitually.

    Bob Dole says, “Bob Dole agrees and that is something that Bob Dole would never do.”

    • #57
  28. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Modus Ponens (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    If a candidate is too fragile to deal with opposition in his own party, he’s probably too fragile everywhere else, too.

    Would you apply this same rule to McCarthy?

    If he acted like a delicate snowflake, sure. 

    • #58
  29. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Modus Ponens (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Modus Ponens (View Comment):

    Speaking as one who has supported both for their respective offices, I think that DeSantis’ run for President was ill-advised and will possibly hamper his chances should he run again in the next cycle.

    I don’t think Trump supporters are so petty that they would hold that against DeSantis in the future.

     

    My opinion has long been that the GOP donor class wanted to pit DeSantis against Trump for their own benefit and not because they thought he could realistically win.

    I know of no reason to believe that.

    DeSantis’ best shot at becoming an effective President was to finish out his second Term and run in 4 years. He would’ve had the full support of Trump and the conservative base.

    I know of no reason to think that that would have been a better way to do it.

    I don’t intend to argue the point too much here, since this is just my reading of the situation. However, it is my answer to why a Trump supporter might have an issue with DeSantis, though I qualify that my issue is not with DeSantis himself and more with the timing of his run and my suspicions about the motives of those advising him. It seems clear to me that DeSantis was floated as the “Reasonable” alternative in a bid to knock Trump out of the running. It’s a classic divide and conquer strategy to destroy the populist movement, just like what happened to the Tea Party.

    I don’t know why it seems that anybody floated DeSantis. 

    • #59
  30. Painter Jean Moderator
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    Modus Ponens (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Because they’re Only Trumpers. It doesn’t matter who the other options are.

    I’d invite you to consider other explanations. I, for one, have reasons for thinking DeSantis’ Presidential Run was mistimed and ill-advised. Your explanation certainly does not reflect my position.

    That’s fair. If you aren’t an Only Trumper, and you have actual, sound reasons for your decisions, great.

    • #60
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