Israel Must Reject Calls for ‘Proportionality’

 

There’s a new buzzword among the Hamas accommodationists and those worried that Israel might defend itself from terror: “Proportionality.”

When it comes to warfare, proportionality is bad policy. The victor in any fight is the one who disproportionally harms the enemy more than the enemy harms them. To wit…

Japan destroyed several US Navy assets in an outlying American territory, then captured a few further-flung territories, brutalizing the populace. America’s disproportionate response starved Japan of food, fuel, and materiel, carpet-bombed its urban cores, dropped two nukes, and killed somewhere between 1 million and 2 million of its people (estimates vary widely). Even then, half the Japanese Imperial Cabinet wanted to fight on. Following Japan’s surrender, we occupied their country, recreated their government in a Western image, imposed a new constitution, and still maintain a military presence nearly 80 years later.

Germany declared war on the UK, Russia, and the US, and devastated much of Europe. The Allies’ disproportionate response was to lay waste to Germany, flattening cities, towns, and villages; annihilating their economy and social structures; starving the people; and, as in Japan, imposing a new government, business, military, and civic life.

What are the proponents of proportionality even asking for? Would they praise Israel for breaking into Gaza without warning, taking civilian hostages, beheading babies, and livestreaming it all for laughs and celebrity approval? Would they have praised the UK for the industrial murder of 6 million random Germans? Of course not.

What would have been a proportional response to 9/11? Kabul didn’t have gleaming skyscrapers to raze or a globally interconnected economy to devastate. If the US had run amok in Kandahar slashing thousands of innocents with box cutters, I don’t see the UN praising us for proportionality.

Those demanding proportionality from Israel do not want proportionality at all. Instead, they do not want Israel to defend itself. They want Hamas to be the victor.

Asking for tit-for-tat responses guarantees a forever war.

Published in Foreign Policy, Military
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  1. Zafar Member
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    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on?  It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    • #211
  2. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
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    Zafar (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?  

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.  

     

    • #212
  3. Steve Fast Member
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    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.

    I saw an opinion poll that said 86% of Gazans support Hamas. (The other 14% fell off a building and were marked down as “no response.”)

    I’m not sure how you do a fair opinion poll in Gaza, but I’m sure the level of support for Hamas is very high. And many people are happy to participate in brutal murders alongside Hamas.

    • #213
  4. Paul Stinchfield Member
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    Zafar (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.

    I saw an opinion poll that said 86% of Gazans support Hamas. (The other 14% fell off a building and were marked down as “no response.”)

    I’m not sure how you do a fair opinion poll in Gaza, but I’m sure the level of support for Hamas is very high. And many people are happy to participate in brutal murders alongside Hamas.

    There are reported to be videos of large crowds of Gazans beating kidnapped Israelis and abusing the bodies of dead Israelis. That might serve as a good first approximation.

    • #214
  5. Miffed White Male Member
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    Zafar (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.

    I saw an opinion poll that said 86% of Gazans support Hamas. (The other 14% fell off a building and were marked down as “no response.”)

    I’m not sure how you do a fair opinion poll in Gaza, but I’m sure the level of support for Hamas is very high. And many people are happy to participate in brutal murders alongside Hamas.

    There are reported to be videos of large crowds of Gazans beating kidnapped Israelis and abusing the bodies of dead Israelis. That might serve as a good first approximation.

    Hamas itself has claimed that “their” fighters only attacked military targets, and the Israeli civilians who were killed were from Gazan civilians who followed Hamas across the line after Hamas broke through the wall.

     

    • #215
  6. kedavis Coolidge
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    Zafar (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.

    I saw an opinion poll that said 86% of Gazans support Hamas. (The other 14% fell off a building and were marked down as “no response.”)

    I’m not sure how you do a fair opinion poll in Gaza, but I’m sure the level of support for Hamas is very high. And many people are happy to participate in brutal murders alongside Hamas.

    There are reported to be videos of large crowds of Gazans beating kidnapped Israelis and abusing the bodies of dead Israelis. That might serve as a good first approximation.

    Hamas itself has claimed that “their” fighters only attacked military targets, and the Israeli civilians who were killed were from Gazan civilians who followed Hamas across the line after Hamas broke through the wall.

     

    Like Hamas only fires rockets at military targets?  Yeah, right.

    • #216
  7. Bryan G. Stephens 🚫 Banned
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    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.

    I saw an opinion poll that said 86% of Gazans support Hamas. (The other 14% fell off a building and were marked down as “no response.”)

    I’m not sure how you do a fair opinion poll in Gaza, but I’m sure the level of support for Hamas is very high. And many people are happy to participate in brutal murders alongside Hamas.

    There are reported to be videos of large crowds of Gazans beating kidnapped Israelis and abusing the bodies of dead Israelis. That might serve as a good first approximation.

    Hamas itself has claimed that “their” fighters only attacked military targets, and the Israeli civilians who were killed were from Gazan civilians who followed Hamas across the line after Hamas broke through the wall.

     

    Well, now. If that is true, it means killing Gazan civilians is perfectly justified, according to Hamas itself. 

    • #217
  8. kedavis Coolidge
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    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.

    I saw an opinion poll that said 86% of Gazans support Hamas. (The other 14% fell off a building and were marked down as “no response.”)

    I’m not sure how you do a fair opinion poll in Gaza, but I’m sure the level of support for Hamas is very high. And many people are happy to participate in brutal murders alongside Hamas.

    There are reported to be videos of large crowds of Gazans beating kidnapped Israelis and abusing the bodies of dead Israelis. That might serve as a good first approximation.

    Hamas itself has claimed that “their” fighters only attacked military targets, and the Israeli civilians who were killed were from Gazan civilians who followed Hamas across the line after Hamas broke through the wall.

     

    Well, now. If that is true, it means killing Gazan civilians is perfectly justified, according to Hamas itself.

    It’s certainly never stopped Hamas from killing Gazan civilians.

    • #218
  9. Randy Weivoda Moderator
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    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.

    I saw an opinion poll that said 86% of Gazans support Hamas. (The other 14% fell off a building and were marked down as “no response.”)

    I’m not sure how you do a fair opinion poll in Gaza, but I’m sure the level of support for Hamas is very high. And many people are happy to participate in brutal murders alongside Hamas.

    There are reported to be videos of large crowds of Gazans beating kidnapped Israelis and abusing the bodies of dead Israelis. That might serve as a good first approximation.

    Hamas itself has claimed that “their” fighters only attacked military targets, and the Israeli civilians who were killed were from Gazan civilians who followed Hamas across the line after Hamas broke through the wall.

    There have also been Hamas leaders who said they knew nothing about the October 7th attack, it must have just been a subsection of Hamas who orchestrated it.  Just like Iran says they knew nothing about it ahead of time.

    • #219
  10. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
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    Oh, and those Gazan civilians just happened to be equipped with body cameras?

    • #220
  11. Bryan G. Stephens 🚫 Banned
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    https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2023/10/30/accept-that-savagery-is-the-true-nature-of-the-world-and-deal-with-it-n2630502

    If you want an indicator of how lost Western civilization has become, go to your kids’ school and check their rules on fighting. Most likely, you’ll find out if two kids get into a fight, both get suspended, regardless of whether one was a punk bully who started it and the other was simply defending himself or some little kid. This is a moral disaster, of course – violence in the defense of what is right is a moral obligation and a symbol of a greater rot within society. This is the kind of rule created by middle-aged, divorced cat women who can neither find nor satisfy a man and live in a tranquil bubble of affluent, frivolous safety and security created by their harder, worthier forbearers who understood the world’s true nature.

    • #221
  12. TBA Coolidge
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    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.

    I saw an opinion poll that said 86% of Gazans support Hamas. (The other 14% fell off a building and were marked down as “no response.”)

    I’m not sure how you do a fair opinion poll in Gaza, but I’m sure the level of support for Hamas is very high. And many people are happy to participate in brutal murders alongside Hamas.

    There are reported to be videos of large crowds of Gazans beating kidnapped Israelis and abusing the bodies of dead Israelis. That might serve as a good first approximation.

    Hamas itself has claimed that “their” fighters only attacked military targets, and the Israeli civilians who were killed were from Gazan civilians who followed Hamas across the line after Hamas broke through the wall.

    No true Scotsman and all that. 

    • #222
  13. Percival Thatcher
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    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.

    I saw an opinion poll that said 86% of Gazans support Hamas. (The other 14% fell off a building and were marked down as “no response.”)

    I’m not sure how you do a fair opinion poll in Gaza, but I’m sure the level of support for Hamas is very high. And many people are happy to participate in brutal murders alongside Hamas.

    There are reported to be videos of large crowds of Gazans beating kidnapped Israelis and abusing the bodies of dead Israelis. That might serve as a good first approximation.

    Hamas itself has claimed that “their” fighters only attacked military targets, and the Israeli civilians who were killed were from Gazan civilians who followed Hamas across the line after Hamas broke through the wall.

     

    Their fighters let armed, untrained civilians tag along as they attacked, sometimes behind them? That’s got to be the stupidest operation ever conducted.

    • #223
  14. kedavis Coolidge
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    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.

    I saw an opinion poll that said 86% of Gazans support Hamas. (The other 14% fell off a building and were marked down as “no response.”)

    I’m not sure how you do a fair opinion poll in Gaza, but I’m sure the level of support for Hamas is very high. And many people are happy to participate in brutal murders alongside Hamas.

    There are reported to be videos of large crowds of Gazans beating kidnapped Israelis and abusing the bodies of dead Israelis. That might serve as a good first approximation.

    Hamas itself has claimed that “their” fighters only attacked military targets, and the Israeli civilians who were killed were from Gazan civilians who followed Hamas across the line after Hamas broke through the wall.

     

    Their fighters let armed, untrained civilians tag along as they attacked, sometimes behind them? That’s got to be the stupidest operation ever conducted.

    Or, more likely, it’s just a(nother) lie.

    • #224
  15. TBA Coolidge
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    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.

    I saw an opinion poll that said 86% of Gazans support Hamas. (The other 14% fell off a building and were marked down as “no response.”)

    I’m not sure how you do a fair opinion poll in Gaza, but I’m sure the level of support for Hamas is very high. And many people are happy to participate in brutal murders alongside Hamas.

    There are reported to be videos of large crowds of Gazans beating kidnapped Israelis and abusing the bodies of dead Israelis. That might serve as a good first approximation.

    Hamas itself has claimed that “their” fighters only attacked military targets, and the Israeli civilians who were killed were from Gazan civilians who followed Hamas across the line after Hamas broke through the wall.

     

    Their fighters let armed, untrained civilians tag along as they attacked, sometimes behind them? That’s got to be the stupidest operation ever conducted.

    It is simply not credible. 

    • #225
  16. Percival Thatcher
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    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.

    I saw an opinion poll that said 86% of Gazans support Hamas. (The other 14% fell off a building and were marked down as “no response.”)

    I’m not sure how you do a fair opinion poll in Gaza, but I’m sure the level of support for Hamas is very high. And many people are happy to participate in brutal murders alongside Hamas.

    There are reported to be videos of large crowds of Gazans beating kidnapped Israelis and abusing the bodies of dead Israelis. That might serve as a good first approximation.

    Hamas itself has claimed that “their” fighters only attacked military targets, and the Israeli civilians who were killed were from Gazan civilians who followed Hamas across the line after Hamas broke through the wall.

     

    Their fighters let armed, untrained civilians tag along as they attacked, sometimes behind them? That’s got to be the stupidest operation ever conducted.

    It is simply not credible.

    Assuming the “troops” had any training at all, they would have run the amateurs off so yes, it didn’t happen.

    • #226
  17. Red Herring Coolidge
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    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.

    I saw an opinion poll that said 86% of Gazans support Hamas. (The other 14% fell off a building and were marked down as “no response.”)

    I’m not sure how you do a fair opinion poll in Gaza, but I’m sure the level of support for Hamas is very high. And many people are happy to participate in brutal murders alongside Hamas.

    There are reported to be videos of large crowds of Gazans beating kidnapped Israelis and abusing the bodies of dead Israelis. That might serve as a good first approximation.

    Hamas itself has claimed that “their” fighters only attacked military targets, and the Israeli civilians who were killed were from Gazan civilians who followed Hamas across the line after Hamas broke through the wall.

     

    So, declare war on civilians?

    • #227
  18. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

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    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.

    I saw an opinion poll that said 86% of Gazans support Hamas. (The other 14% fell off a building and were marked down as “no response.”)

    I’m not sure how you do a fair opinion poll in Gaza, but I’m sure the level of support for Hamas is very high. And many people are happy to participate in brutal murders alongside Hamas.

    There are reported to be videos of large crowds of Gazans beating kidnapped Israelis and abusing the bodies of dead Israelis. That might serve as a good first approximation.

    Hamas itself has claimed that “their” fighters only attacked military targets, and the Israeli civilians who were killed were from Gazan civilians who followed Hamas across the line after Hamas broke through the wall.

     

    So, declare war on civilians?

    Assuming this laughable claim turns out to be true, I am happy to make any civilians who followed Hamas into a foreign country and massacred civilians into honorary soldiers for purposes of killing or trying for war crimes. 

    • #228
  19. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

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    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.

    I saw an opinion poll that said 86% of Gazans support Hamas. (The other 14% fell off a building and were marked down as “no response.”)

    I’m not sure how you do a fair opinion poll in Gaza, but I’m sure the level of support for Hamas is very high. And many people are happy to participate in brutal murders alongside Hamas.

    There are reported to be videos of large crowds of Gazans beating kidnapped Israelis and abusing the bodies of dead Israelis. That might serve as a good first approximation.

    Hamas itself has claimed that “their” fighters only attacked military targets, and the Israeli civilians who were killed were from Gazan civilians who followed Hamas across the line after Hamas broke through the wall.

    So, declare war on civilians?

    Assuming this laughable claim turns out to be true, I am happy to make any civilians who followed Hamas into a foreign country and massacred civilians into honorary soldiers for purposes of killing or trying for war crimes.

    Hamas dresses like civilians. Civilians teach their kids to hate and kill. There are no innocent people in Gaza, just enablers and doers.

    • #229
  20. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

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    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.

    I saw an opinion poll that said 86% of Gazans support Hamas. (The other 14% fell off a building and were marked down as “no response.”)

    I’m not sure how you do a fair opinion poll in Gaza, but I’m sure the level of support for Hamas is very high. And many people are happy to participate in brutal murders alongside Hamas.

    There are reported to be videos of large crowds of Gazans beating kidnapped Israelis and abusing the bodies of dead Israelis. That might serve as a good first approximation.

    Hamas itself has claimed that “their” fighters only attacked military targets, and the Israeli civilians who were killed were from Gazan civilians who followed Hamas across the line after Hamas broke through the wall.

     

    So, declare war on civilians?

    Assuming this laughable claim turns out to be true, I am happy to make any civilians who followed Hamas into a foreign country and massacred civilians into honorary soldiers for purposes of killing or trying for war crimes.

    Hamas dresses like civilian. Curtains teach their kids to hate and kill. There are no innocent people in Gaza, just enablers and doers.

    I know the feeling, but to even remain silent while other people chant ‘Death to Jews’ there is probably an act of courage. 

    Individually there may be some fine and moral people, but collectively they have chosen and supported Hamas. 

    Most weapons kill groups, not individuals. And those weapons that are more singular in their aim have to contend with terrorists-cum-soldiers who dress just like the assumed fine and moral people. 

    • #230
  21. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

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    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.

    I saw an opinion poll that said 86% of Gazans support Hamas. (The other 14% fell off a building and were marked down as “no response.”)

    I’m not sure how you do a fair opinion poll in Gaza, but I’m sure the level of support for Hamas is very high. And many people are happy to participate in brutal murders alongside Hamas.

    There are reported to be videos of large crowds of Gazans beating kidnapped Israelis and abusing the bodies of dead Israelis. That might serve as a good first approximation.

    Hamas itself has claimed that “their” fighters only attacked military targets, and the Israeli civilians who were killed were from Gazan civilians who followed Hamas across the line after Hamas broke through the wall.

     

    So, declare war on civilians?

    Assuming this laughable claim turns out to be true, I am happy to make any civilians who followed Hamas into a foreign country and massacred civilians into honorary soldiers for purposes of killing or trying for war crimes.

    It’s covered under “unlawful combatant.” The rights of unlawful combatants are that they don’t have any.

    • #231
  22. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

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    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.

    I saw an opinion poll that said 86% of Gazans support Hamas. (The other 14% fell off a building and were marked down as “no response.”)

    I’m not sure how you do a fair opinion poll in Gaza, but I’m sure the level of support for Hamas is very high. And many people are happy to participate in brutal murders alongside Hamas.

    There are reported to be videos of large crowds of Gazans beating kidnapped Israelis and abusing the bodies of dead Israelis. That might serve as a good first approximation.

    Hamas itself has claimed that “their” fighters only attacked military targets, and the Israeli civilians who were killed were from Gazan civilians who followed Hamas across the line after Hamas broke through the wall.

     

    So, declare war on civilians?

    Assuming this laughable claim turns out to be true, I am happy to make any civilians who followed Hamas into a foreign country and massacred civilians into honorary soldiers for purposes of killing or trying for war crimes.

    It’s covered under “unlawful combatant.” The rights of unlawful combatants are that they don’t have any.

    They have some.  You can’t torture or maltreat them, for instance.   

    • #232
  23. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

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    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.

    I saw an opinion poll that said 86% of Gazans support Hamas. (The other 14% fell off a building and were marked down as “no response.”)

    I’m not sure how you do a fair opinion poll in Gaza, but I’m sure the level of support for Hamas is very high. And many people are happy to participate in brutal murders alongside Hamas.

    There are reported to be videos of large crowds of Gazans beating kidnapped Israelis and abusing the bodies of dead Israelis. That might serve as a good first approximation.

    Hamas itself has claimed that “their” fighters only attacked military targets, and the Israeli civilians who were killed were from Gazan civilians who followed Hamas across the line after Hamas broke through the wall.

     

    So, declare war on civilians?

    Assuming this laughable claim turns out to be true, I am happy to make any civilians who followed Hamas into a foreign country and massacred civilians into honorary soldiers for purposes of killing or trying for war crimes.

    It’s covered under “unlawful combatant.” The rights of unlawful combatants are that they don’t have any.

    They have some. You can’t torture or maltreat them, for instance.

    According to what? Would incinerating cities with bombs like we did in WWII he considered maltreatment or torture? 

    • #233
  24. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

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    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Palestinian civilians are entitled to their protection – from Hamas and also from Israel.

    Entitled by what? Their country committed a barbaric act.

    Do you see any difference between ‘the Palestinians’ and ‘Hamas’?

    Zafar, just out of curiosity, what percentage of the population of Gaza would you assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters and Hamas opponents?

    I have absolutely no idea. Tbh neither does anybody else here.

    Broad ranges – less than 1%? 5%, 50%, 80%?

    What would we base it on? It would be pure conjecture – iow to what end?

    Zafar, what percentage of the population of Gaza do you think Israeli intelligence and political leaders assign to Hamas/Hamas supporters?

    I think that if they estimate that support is around 5%, then their plans would be very different than if their estimate is 50% or more.

    I saw an opinion poll that said 86% of Gazans support Hamas. (The other 14% fell off a building and were marked down as “no response.”)

    I’m not sure how you do a fair opinion poll in Gaza, but I’m sure the level of support for Hamas is very high. And many people are happy to participate in brutal murders alongside Hamas.

    There are reported to be videos of large crowds of Gazans beating kidnapped Israelis and abusing the bodies of dead Israelis. That might serve as a good first approximation.

    Hamas itself has claimed that “their” fighters only attacked military targets, and the Israeli civilians who were killed were from Gazan civilians who followed Hamas across the line after Hamas broke through the wall.

    So, declare war on civilians?

    Assuming this laughable claim turns out to be true, I am happy to make any civilians who followed Hamas into a foreign country and massacred civilians into honorary soldiers for purposes of killing or trying for war crimes.

    Hamas dresses like civilians. Civilians teach their kids to hate and kill. There are no innocent people in Gaza, just enablers and doers.

    I mentioned once before a group of Palestinian children being encouraged to strike and torment a Jewish child. Reminded me that even a less than mature rattlesnake can be dangerous. I never thought I’d ever think this but Kill ’em all and let God sort them out. 

    • #234
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