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Ric Grennell on Suburban Women
“…I would point to DeSantis. We’ve got a lot of people in the Republican primary that are dialing back of lot of these really good policies from President Trump. You’ve got DeSantis pushing a six-week abortion ban, you’ve got Desantis with…crossing the line of under the age of 18 on trans issues and really going after gay people. I will have that debate all day long.
What he did in that video was completely homophobic, terrible, dialing us back. And he lost a lot of suburban women. I will remind our party that when you have a problem with suburban women, suburban women, historically, have been wildly supportive of gay conservatives, their gay friends. Forty percent of the Log Cabin membership are straight women. They want to see if you’re kind. They want to see if you can talk about these issues differently.
Log Cabin has an under 18/over 18 policy when it comes to trans: you’re under the age of 18, protect children. Don’t make children get tattoos, or allow children to get tattoos, or surgeries or blockers for their hormones. But if you’re over the age of 18, and you’re an adult, knock yourself out. The reality is is that we have to have a society where we allow adults to live their lives as long as you’re not hurting somebody else.”
— Ric Grennell, former acting DNI Director, on The Megyn Kelly Show, September 7, 2023
Yesterday, Ric Grennell appeared on The Megyn Kelly Show as a Trump surrogate, or so it seems to me, to tout Trump’s accommodations of the LGBTQ+ community and call Florida Governor Ron DeSantis homophobic. The problem, in Grennell’s assessment, is not only the backwardness of DeSantis’ ideas, but also the harsh political reality that Republicans will lose the precious votes of suburban women. So what if Trump and his political friends are fighting for trans rights? They care about the issues important to people like me! Nothing speaks to suburban women more than the rights of people with gender dysphoria or autogynephilia, or autism-related anxiety that finds a focus on the hatred of one’s own body, to absolutely mutilate themselves, corrupt our language, and destroy all standards of objectivity in society and law.
As a suburban woman, I would like everyone to know that Ric Grennell does not speak for me. I have a feeling that he wouldn’t like it if I had a platform on which I opined about what policies gay men prefer. I acknowledge that my views may not be representative of all or most suburban women, but at the very least, I meet the definition of a person who is both a dweller of the suburbs and a woman. Like a lot of such people, I’m also a mom. Since we’re playing identity politics here, I’m flaunting my group membership to tell Grennell that he is not only wrong, but obviously confused. As a woman and a mom (historically, two of the most sympathetic groups of people), I am somewhat sympathetic to his confusion when it comes to age-based trans policies. They don’t make any sense, so it’s hard to sound sensible when defending them.
I don’t care whether they’re coming from the Log Cabin Republicans or the Trump Administration or 95% of suburban women, policies that allow or promote medical or surgical interventions aimed at changing a person’s sex are harmful even after the patient/guinea pig turns 18. Also, it’s pretty rich to use a group of women to assert the superiority of those policies. For all I can tell, the 40 percent of Log Cabin Republican members who say they are women might be trans. Is that a ridiculous thought, Mr. Grennell? If not, why not? How can we know that the women you are referring to are women in the traditional sense of the word, or a whole bunch of men self-identifying as women? If it’s totally cool to lean into whatever gender you choose after your turn 18, then please tell me who and what you are talking about when you say, “suburban women.”
Thankfully, we can still rely on numerical age as an objective fact, so Mr. Grennell and I both know what he means when he references the age of 18 as the magical moment of maturity when people are completely capable of making great decisions. It’s maybe not old enough to trust a person with alcohol or renting a car, and my 18-year-old still can’t get her own credit card because she has no income.
But 18-year-olds generally, we can agree, make the best decisions for their long-term benefit and for the benefit of all of society. Anyone over 18 years old who decides to get hormone blockers and/or surgeries certainly isn’t hurting anyone else. I seem to recall some information about sex-change medical interventions increasing the possibility of cancer, osteoporosis, ongoing medical care to manage the wounds created in attempts to construct artificial genitals—oh, and speaking of “genitals”—sterility, and various psychological issues. Assuming the parents and loved ones of people undergoing such treatments are involved in their lives, there’s a lot of medical and psychological support needed. From what I have read, often on the medical websites that advertise these services, they are expensive, too. But where’s the harm?
Let’s pretend that all the logical consequences of becoming “trans” that I have described above are not causing anyone any difficulties (after all, playing pretend is what the trans community wants us all to do). I still can’t help thinking about the parents of young people who are forced to endure the loss of a son or daughter without any societal recognition of that loss. If my beautiful, smart, talented daughter goes to college and decides she is really a man trapped in a woman’s body, you better believe I’d be harmed.
I’d be devastated to see her struggle psychologically, to declare war on her own body by introducing an excessive amount of testosterone or having her breasts surgically removed. If she grew a beard and her voice became permanently lower, I would cease to recognize the child that I have raised to be a healthy, independent adult. If she changed her name and pronouns, too, I would be reprimanded for using her “deadname.” And that’s what my daughter would be to me: dead. I hope I never have to experience the death of a child and I don’t wish the experience on anyone else. Why would society encourage people to choose such a destructive path? Also, why wouldn’t society want to ask whether there isn’t some other issue and some other less invasive and physically destructive treatment for what ails people with gender identity confusion?
I find it hard to believe that suburban women are in favor of trans identification, whether for their daughters or their sons. If, like me, they have daughters, they are probably coming around to the idea that having men who self-identify as women joining their daughters’ sports teams and sharing their locker rooms is unfair and unsafe. Maybe they are even starting to realize that a lot of these so-called trans women behave like typically aggressive men when their gender identity or rights are challenged. Granted, I am older than many suburban women, but I grew up at a time when the most notable trans person in popular culture was a psychotic serial killer who kidnapped large women in order to make a suit out of their skin. Now that we have medical professionals to serve the demand for gender transformation, we can avoid grisly DIY attempts.
Finally, I don’t get why “crossing the line” on the under 18/over 18 trans policy is homophobic. The inclusion of transgenderism within the rainbow of sexual identities doesn’t make sense if homosexuals recognize the essential and immutable differences between men and women. If Grennell and many other gay people find solidarity with trans people, it suggests they don’t believe in the immutable differences between men and women. Instead, it seems like they view gender identity as part of a spectrum of sexual identities that are subjective.
Since I am old enough to remember the arguments in favor of gay marriage, that view seems to undermine the assertion that being gay was an immutable fact. They said that being gay was not a choice, so it was a denial of civil rights to exclude gay people from the institution of marriage. Now, however, it sounds like Grennell is making a “lifestyle” argument in favor of trans-identifying people, their behavior, and their preferred medical treatments. And yet, people in favor of gender self-identification will say, “trans women are women.” If you already are a woman, why do you need medical treatments and surgeries? To that question, Grennell can only respond: “knock yourself out.”
Published in Group Writing
A person might be an adult sexually by age 18, but still be very short on adult experience. The drinking age was 21 in most states. I think that was based upon allowing a few years for maturity’s sake. There is no magic number regarding emotional maturity. Some people never really “grow up” while others display wisdom beyond their years. The age of 18 should be viewed as a bare minimum standard for adulthood, not an optimum.
If the things Grennell speaks of are what differentiates Mr. Trump from Mr. DeSantis, then I am for DeSantis, however, I doubt that Grennell really speaks for Trump. We shall see.
In the past I’ve admired Ric Grennel, but his interview yesterday sure did diminish him in my eyes. He stated that Ron DeSantis is homophobic, but couldn’t explain with examples what he was talking about. Stop throwing out accusations unless you’re prepared to back them up with receipts. (I hate the term “homophobic” because it obscures what the issue is. It is not “phobic to be, say, against gays marrying. )
You are saying precisely what I would have said, St. Christopher. I,too, admired Grennel, I’m very disappointed. I follow DeSantis’ policies and positions, and his descriptions are, to say the least, misinformed. If the gay people care about their cause, they’d be best off if they didn’t muddle their ideas with the trans. They will only be rejected and lose credibility.
It won’t matter. Trump and/or his surrogates can come out for the LGBTQwhatever agenda, and Trump voters will still walk over the cliff for him out of fealty.
Well, on the whole, I have to agree with Grenell that suburban women suck, as voters. There are exceptions, of course, but on the whole, I think that they suck.
About Grenell — this is what you get when you allow sodomite perverts into positions of power in the so-called conservative movement. I have long been disappointed in Trump on the issues of perversion. The picture of him with the rainbow flag is an ugly one, for me.
I have been willing to support Trump because he is solid on other policies, and plan to continue to do so.
And once again, someone has to change the tone and content of the discussion and make an off-topic slur against Trump and Trump supporters. Another post I will unfollow due to the ill will of a very few vocal and insulting members.
How is what I’m saying insulting? It’s merely an observation, not a condemnation. If you disagree and think that my observation is incorrect, I’m happy to hear your reasons.
Why this thing about *suburban* women? Seems to me that it is college-educated *city-dwelling* women who are more likely to be aligned with Democrat ideologies.
Agreed. I don’t think most suburban women, or at least those who are married with children, would be in favor of Grennell’s viewpoint.
Jean, I don’t think that you’re right, but I understand your point.
I’ve been strongly supportive of Trump. This post gives me a strong reason to switch my support to DeSantis. I think that it’s an exaggeration to say that I’d “walk over a cliff” for Trump, “out of fealty,” but I do think that he did a good job and I support most of his positions, so I’ve been willing to overlook areas of disagreement.
I was aware that Trump wasn’t in accord with my views on the issues of perversion. Most Republicans don’t seem to support traditionalism anyway, so I have let this pass.
I don’t recall ever paying any attention to Ric Grennell. I looked him up as a result of this post, and was very disappointed. An open homosexual who served in the Bush 43 administration, then was an advisor to the Romney campaign, then served under Trump.
Trump even appointed this sodomite to be Ambassador to Germany, and then to a Cabinet position (albeit only an “acting” one).
I’m not strongly supporting anyone in the primary, yet. If asked, I’d say that I prefer Trump at the moment, but I’m going to keep an open mind until shortly before the primary in Arizona next year. No need to dig in my heels right now.
On this issue, I’m not convinced that DeSantis is very different from Trump. Does anyone have more information about this? How strongly does DeSantis oppose the perverted Rainbow Flag agenda? Because my impression is that his principal action has been to oppose surgical and chemical mutilation of so-called “trans” children.
Does he actually oppose such mutilation of adults, too? Is he prepared to reject the protection of the anti-discrimination laws being applied to homosexual and trans perverts? I doubt it, but please let me know.
Great post Lilly B. Was also a Grennell fan but why is he into trans? Perhaps unlike Jerry G., although don’t want to anger him if he is now the DeSantis fan, never got the prejudice against gays. At least in the military. They fought and risked their lives like the rest of us. Did not care what they did with their private parts on liberty. Best memory, in my Navy story, was convincing a gay guy, valuable sailor, to not bail by asking for an Undesirable Discharge, a few months before his enlistment was up. I was a wise guy even back then so when he asked what I would do with his report of homosexuality said I would “queer it.”And he got an honorable discharge. Can’t imagine what to do with a trans type. Since it looks like 90% or more are going from male to female my first reaction to getting your privates snipped is “that must take a lot of ba—uh, guts.” But they enlisted to do male stuff- you know, moving jets off the flight deck, loading bombs, all the fun stuff I remember watching on the Kitty Hawk. So are they nurses now? Can they still lift a bomb? What a world.
I don’t know either, although it seemed like Grennell going on Megyn Kelly was part of a deal where she does a Trump interview next week. He sounded like he was playing the role of Trump defender, but I wouldn’t assume that means Trump would limit himself to the sentiments expressed by Grennell. If he thinks the political winds are shifting, and I hope they are, I think Trump would turn away from the trans agenda. That said, I doubt I can trust him if/when he does.
I think this is an interesting response, and one that loyal Trump supporters should contend with. I get why it doesn’t persuade them to join in a dialogue, but I hear your frustration. I am constantly hearing that no one else has a chance, but I think there are such massive disadvantages to making Trump the nominee. This interview from Grennell is just one small issue, although I think it’s disqualifying in anyone who wants a position of authority in our government.
But in fact Ric Grennell would never be on suburban women.
Suburban men, yes.
But not women.
Interesting that you think it’s 90% male to female. I think the more recent trend is female to make, particularly among young women. However, I have seen more older men appropriating womanhood. I forgot to include mention of the harms inflicted upon the wives (trans widows) of those men who start “living their truth” after being married and fathering children. I think Kris Jenner qualifies as a good example, and there are many more.
thanks! And I’m amused at your comment re: Jerry. DeSantis needs all the votes he can get!
But see my question above: how do you know they’re “women” at the Log Cabin meetings?
Sorry Lilly the one one who stands out recently is the guy (gal) who destroyed Bud Light. And Jenner one of those (the Olympic guy). Other than the Nashville school assassin, which female to male got any attention?
He has really gone downhill lately.
“Suburban women” is shorthand for a large block of non-ideological, largely uninformed, “moderate” voters who are easily swayed by emotional appeals and peer pressure. These are the people who usually voted Republican but wouldn’t vote for Trump because he’s “mean” (racist, sexist, etc.).
DeSantis is young, relatively good-looking, and has an attractive wife with a recent history of breast cancer whom he’s stood by (by all accounts), which should all be catnip to “suburban women”. If DeSantis’ narrative of protecting kids from sexual grooming takes hold nationally, he’ll have these ladies’ votes. If Grennell can convince enough of them that Trump is nice to gays whereas DeSantis is mean to them, he may be able to peel off some of them. At least, I expect that’s the plan. I doubt it’ll work to get “suburban women” to vote for Trump — they’ll still despise him — but it might cause them to vote Democrat.
The ones I personally see among my kids’ classmates. And the kids of my friends and acquaintances. And the memoir highlighted by an elementary school librarian I know. And the massive increase in the trans trend among young girls identified in Abigail Schrier’s book Irreversible Damage. But yeah, men like Dylan Mulvaney keep stealing the spotlight from women, even when it’s getting attention for being trans!
Bravo, @lillyb
I heard that interview too, and Grennell (whom I’ve always liked, and always thought was pretty smart) went down several notches in my estimation. He tied himself in knots in a few instances looking for specific examples of DeSantis’s supposed homophobia (he really couldn’t find any), and resorted a couple of times to almost Kamalesque rhetoric while circling the drain. I’m not sure what he was trying to do, with what was essentially a Trump commercial (get himself shortlisted as Trump’s VP running mate?), but I thought it was pretty sad performance. (If you want the real thing, in terms of a Trump commercial, the man himself is on with Megyn next week, I think it’s the 14th.)
Weird. Get while I get a guy wants to get into the chick bathroom or sorority to check it out. Why would a 105 lb. lady want to get into guy stuff? Like football. And bombing or shooting bad guys. Not sure we need them. So something I am missing here.
It’s maybe a fallout from the idea many women have that men have it easy. So if YOU want to have life easy, become a man!
Same. I have always liked him. Until this. I think so many gay people have a blind spot on the trans issue. Not Douglas Murray, thankfully. I listen to and read a lot of gay authors and commentators, but I think they make better arguments when their opinions are not founded on their gay identity.
She, that was my thought too – Grennell is angling for a position in a second Trump administration.
Leave it to the Democrats to create an onslaught of issues and crises that are all tremendously important: the economy, energy independence, the Justice Department mess, the illegal immigration problem and the cities that are in big trouble, the war in Ukraine, China, the “climate change” agenda that has to be stopped, election integrity, and gender-changing surgeries on children.
I don’t know what we should do on the last problem. I think parents have a right to control their children’s healthcare, and doctors who are board certified are recommending these treatments and performing them. I don’t want to control doctors. But these doctors are, as far as I’m concerned, quacks. Yet if we step in to control them, we risk setting a precedent for yet even more government control of doctors in other areas.
I don’t know what we should do. On the other issues, I have a clear idea in my head about what I believe we need to do.
When it comes to choosing the best candidate for president from our side, it’s going to be difficult because of competing priorities and crises on several fronts.
At this moment, I will be voting for Trump because I don’t have any other way to protest the terrible way the J6 protestors and Trump and his friends and associates have been treated. I don’t know where Trump is on the trans surgery issues, but I would guess he would oppose them for children. But I don’t know for sure. I agree with him on everything else pretty much, except Ukraine, but I think that may be a moot point by the time of the election.
I do think he is influenceable and that if parents and other child advocates make a good case against these surgeries, he will work to stop them if he can.
Yes, we have so many issues to debate and address. It was rather strange that the former acting director of national intelligence picked the trans issue to hit DeSantis.
Unfortunately from what I notice in my No Calif county, it is the suburban moms who flounce around with orgasmic grins on their faces as they parade their sons who have been converted into daughters. I’m talking about children in the 8 to 12 year old category.
Anyway I have little trust left in most politicians.
I did like DeSantis’ COV approach in Florida. That took courage.
I did like Trump up until March 13th 2020.
I do hope we end up with someone from somewhere of whom I could approve of completely. But even so, how would I know if the new candidate would do a single thing that was promised?
“Suburban women” is shorthand for a large block of non-ideological, largely uninformed, “moderate” voters who are easily swayed by emotional appeals and peer pressure. These are the people who usually voted Republican but wouldn’t vote for Trump because he’s “mean” (racist, sexist, etc.).”
That is the best definition I’ve heard. I have found, in my limited and subjective observations, that those who proclaim to be “moderates” are generally slightly left of center, and more concern about how they think they should feel and be preserved on any given subject.