Heming and Hawing at American History

 

Founding Father Nick Nolte.

I recently made a delightful jaunt to the stomping grounds of Tommy J’s Monticello.  Simply glorious.  There is nothing quite like inhabiting the space of a founding father and imagining him scuttling about. A few quick takes:

  • The caretakers of Monticello are all in on pushing the line that there is absolutely no doubt that Jefferson fathered Sally Heming’s children. I will likely put up a post just on this unfortunate state of affairs.
  • Prior to my scheduled tour, I strolled down to the family plot and back up to the west portico.  There were few people around and an exuberant child with Down Syndrome and his mother came across my path.  The young child blurted out to me, “There.  There look!  That’s on a nickel!”  I replied, “You got that right, my friend.  Seems like you know your stuff, amigo.”  Later, we were waiting in an outdoor space while the tour began.  The tour guide started by asking us if any of know where we can easily see Monticello.  She was prepping to whip out a giant fake nickel.  I said to myself, please God, let this child seize his opportunity to shine.  Right on cue, my new friend blurted out, “On a nickel!  You see it on a nickel!”  I choked up a bit.  Well played, my friend.

And here’s the kicker.  Please let me know if there is any interest in my organizing a Ricochet meet-up in Charlottesville at Monticello at 9 a.m., July 4, 2024.  Why, you might ask?  It seems that every July 4 at precisely 9 a.m., a large contingent of blessed individuals stands on the steps of Monticello to be sworn in as citizens of the greatest country on earth.  Evidently, crowds come early and flood the grassy expanse in front of Monticello to be a part of the ceremony.  Newly anointed citizens are able to approach a microphone and say a few words.  The tour guide noted that there is not a dry eye as far as one can see.

I can only imagine what it must be like to be born somewhere else dreaming of the possibility of being a U.S. citizen.  Not to be rich.  Not to be powerful.  Just one of the many who enjoy our freedoms and pledge allegiance thereto.  To so many who know the U.S. only from stories and movies, it must seem an unattainable dream.  Well, those who have managed to attain it will be there sharing their heartfelt love of the U.S. of A.

I plan on being there next year.  I hope we can get a smattering of Ricochet members there as well.

Published in General
This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 21 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    Jack Mantle: Please let me know if there is any interest in my organizing a Ricochet meet-up in Charlottesville at Monticello at 9:00 am, July 4, 2024.  Why, you might ask?  It seems that every July 4 at precisely 9:00 am a large contingent of blessed individuals stands on the steps of Monticello to be sworn in as citizens of the greatest country on earth. 

    Wow what a great idea.  That sounds wonderful.

    Let me check my schedule…

    • #1
  2. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Jack Mantle: The caretakers of Monticello are all in on pushing the line that there is absolutely no doubt that Jefferson fathered Sally Heming’s children. I will likely put up a post just on this unfortunate state of affairs.

    You want to blame Randolph, Isham, or another?

    • #2
  3. Jack Mantle Coolidge
    Jack Mantle
    @JackMantle

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Jack Mantle: The caretakers of Monticello are all in on pushing the line that there is absolutely no doubt that Jefferson fathered Sally Heming’s children. I will likely put up a post just on this unfortunate state of affairs.

    You want to blame Randolph, Isham, or another?

    I would blame no one.  If I had to pick a likely father, it would be Randolph.  My main contention is that it is a hotly contested issue and is by no means settled.  The available evidence points to, conservatively, about a 95 -5 (Not Jefferson/Is Jefferson) probability.  In this environment where victim hood is good and white founding fathers are bad, it just too good a story to allow for any dissent.  It’s like climate change.

    As a huge T.J. fan, I hate to see him smeared when he cannot defend himself.

    • #3
  4. LibertyDefender Member
    LibertyDefender
    @LibertyDefender

    Jack Mantle (View Comment):
    As a huge T.J. fan, I hate to see him smeared when he cannot defend himself.

    As a huge Thomas Jefferson fan, don’t you worry that referring to Thomas Jefferson as “T.J.” or “Tommy J” reflects a certain lack of respect?

    Ricochet meetup at Monticello is a brilliant idea.

    • #4
  5. Jack Mantle Coolidge
    Jack Mantle
    @JackMantle

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):

    Jack Mantle (View Comment):
    As a huge T.J. fan, I hate to see him smeared when he cannot defend himself.

    As a huge Thomas Jefferson fan, don’t you worry that referring to Thomas Jefferson as “T.J.” or “Tommy J” reflects a certain lack of respect?

    Ricochet meetup at Monticello is a brilliant idea.

    Not at all.  He was a man of the people.  I love Lil Mambo Thombo.

    • #5
  6. Lilly B Coolidge
    Lilly B
    @LillyB

    I’m currently reading the McCullough biography of John Adams, which details the great friendship between Adams and Jefferson. He was a fascinating and complicated person. I visited Monticello a couple years ago and was similarly annoyed that the tour emphasizes the Hemings scandal. It’s one thing to acknowledge the possibility and another to make it front and center, while denying that there’s any debate about it. Researching for more information, I found a seemingly well researched article about it by Ann Coulter. It still amazes me that the living will determine what is worthy of remembering about the dead regardless of the truth. I think the truth is we don’t know.  

    • #6
  7. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte
    @Charlotte

    Lilly B (View Comment):

    I’m currently reading the McCullough biography of John Adams, which details the great friendship between Adams and Jefferson. He was a fascinating and complicated person. I visited Monticello a couple years ago and was similarly annoyed that the tour emphasizes the Hemings scandal. It’s one thing to acknowledge the possibility and another to make it front and center, while denying that there’s any debate about it. Researching for more information, I found a seemingly well researched article about it by Ann Coulter. It still amazes me that the living will determine what is worthy of remembering about the dead regardless of the truth. I think the truth is we don’t know.

    Well, and that’s hardly the most important or interesting thing about him.

    • #7
  8. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):
    As a huge Thomas Jefferson fan, don’t you worry that referring to Thomas Jefferson as “T.J.” or “Tommy J” reflects a certain lack of respect?

    Indeed. If I remember rightly, he signed himself as TI.

    • #8
  9. Jack Mantle Coolidge
    Jack Mantle
    @JackMantle

    Arahant (View Comment):

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):
    As a huge Thomas Jefferson fan, don’t you worry that referring to Thomas Jefferson as “T.J.” or “Tommy J” reflects a certain lack of respect?

    Indeed. If I remember rightly, he signed himself as TI.

    “TI”?

    • #9
  10. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Jack Mantle (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Jack Mantle: The caretakers of Monticello are all in on pushing the line that there is absolutely no doubt that Jefferson fathered Sally Heming’s children. I will likely put up a post just on this unfortunate state of affairs.

    You want to blame Randolph, Isham, or another?

    I would blame no one. If I had to pick a likely father, it would be Randolph. My main contention is that it is a hotly contested issue and is by no means settled. The available evidence points to, conservatively, about a 95 -5 (Not Jefferson/Is Jefferson) probability. In this environment where victim hood is good and white founding fathers are bad, it just too good a story to allow for any dissent. It’s like climate change.

    As a huge T.J. fan, I hate to see him smeared when he cannot defend himself.

    You may know much more about this than I.  I did some quick research, including at the Monticello site.  I didn’t see any evidence that would allow one to place odds in a meaningful sense.

    As I understand it, the summary of the evidence is:

    • A political opponent of Jefferson’s — Callender, who seems to be a sleazy journalist who Jefferson used but who later turned on him — claimed that Jefferson had fathered a son with Sally Hemings named “Tom” in around 1790.
    • There was no record of Sally having given birth to a “Tom,” though there was a record of her later having 6 other children (2 of whom died in infancy).
    • There was a family history of a mixed-race man named “Tom Woodson,” which claimed that he was the son of Thomas Jefferson and Jefferson’s wife’s half-sister, a description matching Sally’s reported parentage. 
    • DNA testing conclusively proved that this claim was incorrect, as male descendants of Tom Woodson did not match Jefferson family DNA.
    • There was a family history from Sally’s know descendants claiming that Thomas Jefferson was their father.
    • DNA testing conclusively proved that members of the Carr family (relatives of Jefferson) did not father one of Sally’s children, Easton Hemings.
    • DNA testing of male descendants of Easton Hemings established that his father was in the Jefferson family.

    These seem to be the relevant facts.  There does not appear to be any evidence that would allow one to determine whether the father of Easton Hemings was Thomas Jefferson, or one of many other males in the Jefferson family.  There also does not appear to be any evidence that would allow one to determine whether the father of Easton Hemings was the same man as the father of Sally’s other children.

    Thomas Jefferson did free the children of Sally Hemings, eventually.  To me, this seems equally consistent with them being his own children, or the children of another relative of his.

    Comment to follow.

    • #10
  11. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    My comment on the question of the parentage of Sally Hemings’s children is that I find it appalling that the officials at Monticello would declare a firm conclusion on the issue.  The evidence seems insufficient to reach any conclusion about Thomas Jefferson’s involvement, though there is very strong DNA evidence that one of Sally’s children was fathered by one of the Jefferson men.

    It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that this has to do with THE MESSAGE.

    • #11
  12. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Wasn’t he an insurrectionist?

    • #12
  13. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Jack Mantle (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):
    As a huge Thomas Jefferson fan, don’t you worry that referring to Thomas Jefferson as “T.J.” or “Tommy J” reflects a certain lack of respect?

    Indeed. If I remember rightly, he signed himself as TI.

    “TI”?

    As with U and V, I and J used to be interchangeable.

    • #13
  14. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Jack Mantle (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):
    As a huge Thomas Jefferson fan, don’t you worry that referring to Thomas Jefferson as “T.J.” or “Tommy J” reflects a certain lack of respect?

    Indeed. If I remember rightly, he signed himself as TI.

    “TI”?

    As with U and V, I and J used to be interchangeable.

    F and S too, right?  That’s why we have the purfuit of happineff in the Declaration of Independence 

    • #14
  15. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    F and S too, right?  That’s why we have the purfuit of happineff in the Declaration of Independence

    No. That was the medial s: ſ not f. Note, it does not have the bit in the middle front. It is also the basis of the German digraph: ß.

    • #15
  16. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte
    @Charlotte

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Jack Mantle (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):
    As a huge Thomas Jefferson fan, don’t you worry that referring to Thomas Jefferson as “T.J.” or “Tommy J” reflects a certain lack of respect?

    Indeed. If I remember rightly, he signed himself as TI.

    “TI”?

    As with U and V, I and J used to be interchangeable.

    I wonder how uvula used to be spelled.

    • #16
  17. Globalitarian Misanthropist Coolidge
    Globalitarian Misanthropist
    @Flicker

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Jack Mantle (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):
    As a huge Thomas Jefferson fan, don’t you worry that referring to Thomas Jefferson as “T.J.” or “Tommy J” reflects a certain lack of respect?

    Indeed. If I remember rightly, he signed himself as TI.

    “TI”?

    As with U and V, I and J used to be interchangeable.

    I wonder how uvula used to be spelled.

    I still have difficulty with vacuum.

    • #17
  18. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Charlotte (View Comment):
    I wonder how uvula used to be spelled.

    Originally, uvola. The question, though, is how was it originally pronounced. (It meant, “small bunch of grapes.”)

    • #18
  19. LibertyDefender Member
    LibertyDefender
    @LibertyDefender

    Arahant (View Comment):

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):
    As a huge Thomas Jefferson fan, don’t you worry that referring to Thomas Jefferson as “T.J.” or “Tommy J” reflects a certain lack of respect?

    Indeed. If I remember rightly, he signed himself as TI.

    He signed documents – letters, I presume? – with his initials.  Is there any evidence he ever signed as Tommy J? Or as Lil Mambo Thombo? Did he ask anyone to address him as “TJ” or as “TI” or as “Lil Mambo Thombo?”

    I don’t understand how such terms reflect historical accuracy or prominence, let alone respect.

    • #19
  20. Jack Mantle Coolidge
    Jack Mantle
    @JackMantle

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    LibertyDefender (View Comment):
    As a huge Thomas Jefferson fan, don’t you worry that referring to Thomas Jefferson as “T.J.” or “Tommy J” reflects a certain lack of respect?

    Indeed. If I remember rightly, he signed himself as TI.

    He signed documents – letters, I presume? – with his initials. Is there any evidence he ever signed as Tommy J? Or as Lil Mambo Thombo? Did he ask anyone to address him as “TJ” or as “TI” or as “Lil Mambo Thombo?”

    I don’t understand how such terms reflect historical accuracy or prominence, let alone respect.

    Your lack of understanding is regrettable.  The world needs ditch diggers.  If I don’t thank them enough, let me thank you for the menial but important life you must lead.  Cheers.

    • #20
  21. LibertyDefender Member
    LibertyDefender
    @LibertyDefender

    Jack Mantle (View Comment):
    Your lack of understanding is regrettable.

    On that we agree.

    • #21
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.