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Grading the Republican debate candidates
From left to right as they appeared on the stage:
Asa Hutchison: D-
Obvious question: why? I really can’t remember anything he said, although he wanted us to know he had done a lot of important things in his life. For that, I say thanks, but he provided nothing to make me want him to be President.
I would have given him an F, but he did serve the useful role of providing an in-the-flesh example of an old guy whose time to get out of the way has arrived. The others like him, e.g. Biden, Trump, McConnell, Feinstein, etc., should take a lesson.
Chris Christie: D
Listening to him I thought of Jake and Elwood on their mission to get the band back together. Someone told him they needed him to fill up some space on the stage between the center and the edge and provide his brand of confrontational glibness, so he stepped up. But what substance did that add, other than some slightly entertaining personal attacks, which to my surprise were directed at Ramaswamy more than at Trump or DeSantis, contrary to what had been predicted by all the tv talkers. Speaking of tv talkers, they all seem to agree that Christie is a good debater, which I don’t understand. I guess that special confrontational glibness is good debating.
Mike Pence: B-
I was prepared to dislike him and write him off. His robotic, canned, overly-sincere demeanor has always been off-putting to me. But he surprised me by being very aggressive, violating the debate rules more than anyone else, being borderline rude, and emphasizing his actual relevant experience. So I give him credit for breaking the robot shackles and actually acting like he really wants this. And he does have creditable experience. A B- is more than I expected to give him, but I still have not warmed up to him.
Ron DeSantis: A-
He did enough to make me comfortable voting for him. He was articulate and in control. He, of course, referenced often his successes in Florida, but a governor of a state and the President of the USA have very different responsibilities. For example, he can be proud of having removed CRT from Florida schools, but should we assume he will do that with all the schools in the country? That’s not the President’s job. Or should we assume that he plans to make the entire country like Florida … that might not be all bad, but it’s not going to happen. In my view he can move his grade up to an A if he can convince me that he understands the actual Constitutional role of the President and the federal government.
Vivek Ramaswamy: B+
I guess he wants us to think of him as the Happy Revolutionary. Despite attacks from at least three different candidates, he handled himself very well, always smiling, always responding, and never blinking. His playbook appears to be modeled on what he sees worked for Trump, so he tries to push all the right buttons toward that end, but what I heard was a lot of generalities and denials that he said what others, particularly Haley, said he said. So he gets a B+ for a very good performance in the center of the stage for his first time. But as I learn more about his actual positions on substantive issues, he could easily bring his grade down.
Nikki Haley: B
I think I could be comfortable voting for Haley, but I guess I need to learn more. She clearly has foreign policy knowledge and experience, but I don’t think she got the chance to elaborate much except regarding Ukraine. Except for the one candidate who correctly maintained that abortion should not be a federal issue, she had the best answer on that issue. She is trying valiantly to get the Trump association albatross from her, and I hope she can figure out how best to do that.
Tim Scott: C
He presents himself well as a good and decent man, an exemplary American success story, and someone with the right views on substantive issues. But he does not impress me as an executive type. I hope he serves for a long time in the Senate where he can continue to articulate what that body should be working on.
Doug Burgum: A
Yes, that’s right. The last guy on the stage, the guy that none of the tv talkers wanted to waste time talking about, gets the highest grade. Here’s why: he appeared to be the only one who had read the job description of the position he is seeking and had understood the actual role of the President and the federal government. He appeared to be impatient and perplexed when the others spent unnecessary time talking about Trump’s problems and about issues not for the federal government. On abortion, he was the only one to say that having successfully overturned Roe and getting the feds out of that issue, we should not be trying get the feds back into it. Regarding education, he declined to be drawn into talking about nationwide policy ideas, he noted correctly that the states need to do what’s right for them, and he referenced a governors’ council on innovation because those issues belong at that level. He tried to redirect discussion away from the popular state responsibility issue and toward China, and he actually had substantive things to say about what the USA needs to do.
_____
Oh, and the “elephant“ not there: F. He didn’t show up. Forget him.
Published in Elections
I agree with you that Doug Borgum did well. I liked him!
I thought Haley was very good, so I would grade her higher than you have.
I thought DeSantis was fine. I don’t think he stood out in a dramatic way and did not shine as Haley did at times, but he did himself no harm.
I like Scott, and his debate performance was as expected – amiable, positive, likeable. He didn’t stand out, however, so I doubt this moves the needle for him.
I thought Ramaswamy was irritating. The more I heard him, the less I liked him.
Christie was….Christie. He presented himself better than I expected him to, but as with Scott I doubt the needle will move.
Mike Pence was fine, but not inspiring.
Hutchinson was there, but forgettable.
I realize that my assessment above is rather bland. I will add that if I could have my ideal presidential team, based solely on this debate, I would go with a Haley/Borgum ticket.
If Trump wins the Primary, should we still “forget him”?
Whether we should or not, there are those who will, including many who voted for him–twice. For many (I do not know how many or if it will matter) his post-election behavior is a bridge too far. Someone called him the Democrats’ best get out the vote device in years. There may be something to that. As you know, many hate him. And that is a motivator.
My problem is that I believe that with a “normal” candidate the Republicans win and with Trump they lose. I just don’t see anyone who didn’t vote for Trump in 2020 suddenly shifting to his camp because he is being mistreated by the swamp. But by the time of the election a lot can have changed. I suspect Biden will not be the nominee. If he is, his condition may swing the election to Trump.
I love how this works:
Non Trump voters will not vote for him and let a Democrat win. They believe passionately that Trump supporters will still vote for the nominee regardless.
I wonder if people like me, willing to vote for Trump should say, for the record, either Trump is the nominee or I don’t vote. Maybe the time has come to part ways with the GOP elite and let the party burn to the ground.
Over and over, people want to make this all about Trump. It is not about Trump. It is about the “normal” candidates doing nothing to speak for the 40% of the nation not being spoken for.
I don’t believe that any GOP candidate is going to win, by the way. You can make that assertion but you have nothing with which to back it up.
I agree with your assessment. He is the Democrats’ best hope.
Well, yeah, because people like you won’t even vote for him if he is the nominee, yet you expect people like me to vote for your candidate.
The more I read people like you, the more likely I am to simply stay home for the first time ever and not vote unless Trump wins the primary. If you can refuse to vote, so can I.
There’s a pretty good chance that Biden won’t be the nominee, especially if Trump isn’t. If Trump is the nominee, the Dims will likely juice up FJB with whatever is necessary to make him appear life-like.
But it seems to me your prediction that someone other than Trump would more easily win, is also based on the assumption that they’ll be facing Biden. Not Newsom or someone else. I expect it’s pretty much certain that, if Trump isn’t the nominee, then Biden won’t be either.
I was never interested in debate, either in school or on TV. Because it’s possible to “win” a debate that 2+2=5 by “scoring more points.” Never mind that 2+2=5 is simply false.
My problem is that the way the Republicans are campaigning, none will win. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Trump’s response to vote fraud and indictments, I just don’t like how he lost the plot that this isn’t just about him and he can’t muddle his way out of that.
Oh yea, I know the NTs are yakking it up “what did you expect from a narcissist???” But In 2016 and 2020, Trump successfully made it about the voters, and it resonated. And when you are the one facing jail time and not everyone else, well it tends to narrow the focus.
The problem is no one on that stage is articulating a winning platform EXCEPT Vivek, but his shiny and polished exterior sends warning bells in the minds of people who are used to being screwed by their elected officials while looking pretty doing it. They don’t know him well enough to shake the idea he’s fake.
I expect the neocons around here will wax ardent over the candidates most likely to escalate the Ukraine War into a full blown war with Russia and China and think they are better than the soldiers they will send to their death who voted for Trump. They won’t hear a word of this. And if their pick wins the nomination and loses (like Romney and McCain did), I’m sure they’ll blame the guys that wanted trump for not showing up.
But why show up? Hayley isn’t going to be any different than Biden. She’ll just speak better and can stay up past noon. The debt will still go up, the wars will continue, and the administrative state will not be held accountable for their severe violations. Barr will just come in and clean up just enough for Andrew McCarthy to claim we can totes trust them now.
I don’t know why you say all of this. I would vote for Trump if I lived in a state where my vote mattered, because Biden is so awful and is ruining this country. But I don’t – I live in Minnesota, where Democrats outnumber Republicans, and Trump has no chance of winning. So I will leave that slot of the ballot empty or write someone else in, because it’s the only way I have to express to the GOP that I do not want to perpetuate the gerontocracy.
I am completely baffled by your other statement, “you expect people like me to vote for your candidate”. When have I ever said such a thing?! I truly don’t expect anyone to base their votes on my wishes. I expect that people will vote for the candidates that they want to vote for. This is a straw-man, Bryan.
Oh, and nobody needs to vote for Trump in 2024 who didn’t vote for Trump in 2020. We just need to make sure that the fraud of #lol81millionvotes doesn’t happen again.
Because you have been quite clear you are not going to vote for Trump.
If you expect that any candidate other than Trump will win, you have to expect that people like me will vote for a GOP establishment candidate. Not a straw-man at all.
Now, if you are willing to say that you are not sure that any GOP candidate other than Trump will win, then I’ll take it back.
But it is not a straw man. It is a logical conclusion from the fact that a GOP candidate cannot win the general without most of the Trump supporters.
Yes, in a state where my vote doesn’t matter, as I’ve explained a few times, most recently just above. If I lived in a state where it mattered, then I would. I don’t know why my voting habits concern you so much – I can assure you that I don’t care about who you vote for at all, as it’s not my business.
But I’ll ask again about your straw-man: when did I ever say that you should vote for “my” candidate, as you claim? I don’t expect anyone to base their votes on my preferences. It’s just a straw-man you invented.
Seems to me the idea that Trump is claiming the 2020 election fraud is just about HIM, is at best a matter of interpretation.
There does seem to be a problem with Vivek claiming he would do all kinds of things, but not having any specifics as to how. It’s entirely possible that many of the things he claims he would do, are simply not within the President’s authority. Nor would he necessarily be able to convince Congress to do them.
I listened to the debate but watched portions of it. I think those ratings of other are pretty much matched my own, similar curve-maybe not same grades.
Pence was off-putting C+
Vivek was a bit too amped up. He’s articulate, says a lot of things I like but my antennae just go up on that guy -B
I don’t care for her and that coninual gender/race card she pulls but Niki Haley was good -B
Liked what Burgum had to say but he made DeSantis look lime a “people guy” B+
Christy his moment has come and gone. He wasn’t the killer I was expecting last night. Some good answers. -C
DeSantis was decent. Lives to fight another day, had some goodpoints, some clunkers & hedges- B+
Tim Scott – sorry, just no. Not even VP. – C
Hutchinson- D minus, for total lack of self-awareness.
Vivek, DeSantis, Bergum and Haley advance to next round.
Trump needs to show up after some culling of this herd.
How the president has no control over the executive branch is beyond me. Whose idea was it to do that? The branches are supposed to be separate. If congress wanted their own investigatory branch, they could have voted for it.
I’ll say this again – I never said that I expected you to vote for “my” candidate (I didn’t even know I had one…). I honestly don’t care who you vote for, Bryan. Nor do I have a crystal ball regarding the election.
It’s a mess for sure. Even if President Ramaswamy declared the FBI to be over and done, it might get through all the court cases etc just in time for President Biden – President NAVY Biden – to deal with it.
(Yes, I know, at least for now she’s not going to have the Biden name. Lucky for her!)
We seem to be talking past each other here.
Yet when the stories about how many votes total etc come up, it turns out that every vote does in fact count. Demonstrating your will to the GOP doesn’t actually work, whereas placing or withholding a vote absolutely counts — is literally “counted.” When your vote doesn’t show up, nobody is asking why Jean’s vote didn’t show up, much less guessing your reasons. It may feel good, but it’s counter-productive.
When I worked the polls here in 2021, I was thrilled to see Youngkin lose our precinct & county with a much better portion of the vote than the Rs typically get here. These things matter.
So I see no practical upside to withholding a vote, and a practical downside to it.
Yes, you seem to be addressing positions I have never taken. Again, I don’t care who you vote for. I have never expected, as you claim I do, that you should vote for “my” candidate. I don’t even have a candidate, so it makes no sense.
However many of you do that will help the nutty “the popular vote total is all that matters” crowd.
Yes, I know. Nuts will be nuts. But it is my way of telling the GOP to find someone who is not pushing 80 to lead the country.
I think you present your case very well and very persuasively. But I would disagree with you in that I do think that a message might get through if enough people like me, who don’t think that the White House should be a retirement home, express their displeasure in non-swing states.
Except the point he made was that nobody gets that message because of you not voting. There is no “none of the above” voting option, and even if there were, how do you send your message about WHY you voted “none of the above?”
And I disagree with that particular point, as I stated. My hope is that the numbers would indicate a lack of enthusiasm for the gerontocracy.
Good points though I differ a bit on the grades.
Asa Hutchison: D-
Arguing the Jan 6 riots constituted an insurrection therefore disqualifying Trump was not true and not smart. He will be the first one out.
Chris Christie: B-
Exceeded expectations. Articulate while toning down his abrasiveness. Betting it all on New Hampshire and has no chance.
Mike Pence: B-
Thought he would be a non-factor and instead he did quite well by not being so bland. He does have an annoying, pompous, over solicitous way of speaking before he gets to the point. Like Christie no realistic chance.
Ron DeSantis: B
His statements were just OK to very good. He didn’t hurt himself much nor help himself much. When it came to Pence he should have answered the question first before answering the one he wanted asked. Substance was better then his style. He is still in it because he still appeals to social conservatives and still most likely to beat Trump in a primary.
Vivek Ramaswamy: C-
I was actually trying to listen when other people were speaking so I found his interrupting and constantly talking over speakers very annoying. He probably helped himself by garnering attention but the way he did it just put me off. Where were the moderators?
Nikki Haley: B+
She may be bit out of step with much of the current party but based solely on her performance last night, If Trump were her only opponent she just might be able to beat him in the primary.
Tim Scott: C
Did not impress last night.
Doug Burgum: B-
He did Ok for his first time out but has time to improve. Does he come across as the most normal?
A proposed debate tie breaker:
Subtract 1 point for anyone wearing a red tie, subtract 1 point for a blue blazer and subtract a 1/2 point for a flag lapel pin. Using this criteria by staying out of negative territory Nikki Haley was the clear winner last night
Future debate predictions:
Hutchinson, Elder, Perry and Suarez are either out soon or will be running zombie campaigns.
Both are trying to hang on until New Hampshire but I suspect Pence and Christie may also have to quit early due to lack of funds.
Scott has rich backers and Burgum is self funded so can hang around for quite awhile but hard to see where they can win.
Youngkin is no fool and will not get in unless there is a total disaster.