Women in Combat Has Always Been a Terrible Idea

 

From the time that the military decided to put women into combat roles, I knew that it was going to be a bad decision for everyone: for men, for women, and for the military. I don’t object to women being in the military, especially in a volunteer army, and with the shortage of candidates. But the premises that were hidden underneath the explanations of equal opportunity to put women in combat roles are what disturb me the most.

A new report was just issued regarding the status of women in special operations units:

Female soldiers face rampant sexism, harassment and other gender-related challenges in male dominated Army special operations units, according to a report Monday, eight years after the Pentagon opened all combat jobs to women.

U.S. Army Special Operations Command, in a lengthy study, reported a wide range of ‘overtly sexist’ comments from male soldiers, including a broad aversion to females serving in commando units. The comments, it said, are ‘not outliers’ but represent a common sentiment that women don’t belong on special operations teams.

More than 5,000 people were assigned to these units, including 837 female troops, 3,238 male troops, and the rest defense civilians.

The decision to admit women to Special Operations has never made sense to me, and now with so many other opportunities open to women throughout society, it makes even less sense.

I think there are many myths underlying the importance of women in combat roles.

  • We need women’s voices in the military. My question is, why in combat roles? Men and women have different interests and skill areas; in what way does a woman’s voice in a combat role contribute to a better military?
  • Women need to have the exact same opportunities as men. The problem is that we assume that women should be able to do exactly the same jobs as men, because men’s jobs are—what? —more important? Do we not need every single person that staffs a support job to work at a high level and at high standards? Doesn’t it matter that the non-combat jobs are critical to success on the battlefield?
  • The Army apparently holds in higher esteem combat jobs rather than the non-combat jobs. That seems like a valid assessment, since the combat roles require the soldier to put his life on the line; the sacrifice is the ultimate one. On the other hand, non-combat jobs can make extreme demands; are there avenues for promotion when a woman is in a non-combat role?
  • Women say they want to be treated like men. So why do some women expect special accommodations for pregnancy? Or believe the Army should pay for their abortions and expenses when they have to travel for treatment? Or pay for their child care?
  • Women want to be able to serve like their military families of origin. Why can’t they serve in a non-combat role? Besides, isn’t serving all about serving the country? Or is it about you getting your personal goals met?
  • Women shouldn’t be excluded because the job is dangerous. Why not? Why should they risk leaving their children motherless when they can serve in safer roles?

*     *     *     *

I don’t want to give people the impression that I think women shouldn’t be in the military. And I believe we have some military women on this site. It’s tough enough serving with children, tolerating the separations and other challenges. But to have the danger of the job darkening the background doesn’t make sense to me. Especially when there are challenges to making women’s roles equal.

I also can’t help wondering if this is an insidious after-effect of feminism. I know I made choices in my life early due to the feminist influence. But to what degree are women desiring combat positions to prove that they are equal to or better than men?

It’s no surprise that some of the servicemen are behaving badly and it shouldn’t be tolerated. Instead, what I see is that men are being forced to take meaningless training, which takes valuable time and dollars, probably creates resentment, and will probably be ignored by the violators. I know that men in the military still harass women, and I’d like the military to make more of an effort to punish the violators. I’d also like to identify a way for women to believe they need to speak up when they are harassed. Here are some of the training subjects  for the men to get them to behave:

The report made 42 recommendations. Several involving increased training and messages to the force to expand awareness of sexual harassment, mentorship, health care and other issues, have been done. Other changes are in progress.

Overall, the report said that gender bias is ‘deeply embedded’ in staffing and equipping the special operations force.

And are standards being lowered? There’s this point:

While there is solid agreement that standards cannot be lowered for females, many interpret that as prohibiting any gender-specific accommodations.

‘Women may require different tools than men to perform the same task,” the report said. “A mentality change is necessary to modify the archaic attitude that supplying tools to female service members is an act of accommodation versus simply providing our warfighters with the right tools for the job.’

So they’re trying to say the standards are simply different, not lower.

For those who are military and retired military, what do you think?

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  1. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    I want to address the harassment issue. Because I think it requires superhuman behavior.

    You take men who are already inclined to violence (albeit in a “legal” format). You put them in raw, life-or-death situations. You remove normal routine intimacy. And then you expect them to not behave in a direct manner when they see a woman they like the looks of?

    It is unrealistic at best.

    In the UK, they let women into the navy. Within the first year, HALF of them “became” pregnant. Shocker.

     

    • #1
  2. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    I’ve never served in the military.  But my understanding is that one problem here is that traditionally, the purpose of the military was to fight wars and protect America.  That was the whole purpose of the military.  So promotions generally happened for service in combat.  Without serving in combat, promotions are more difficult.

    So if women are not allowed in combat, you’re limiting their opportunities for promotion. 

    Which is a problem.  Unless you think that the purpose of our military is to fight wars and protect America.  In which case you don’t care who gets promoted, as long as the military is highly effective.

    In sports, we teach kids that the team is more important than the individual.  In today’s military, perhaps that is not the case.

    • #2
  3. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    I’ve never served in the military. But my understanding is that one problem here is that traditionally, the purpose of the military was to fight wars and protect America. That was the whole purpose of the military. So promotions generally happened for service in combat. Without serving in combat, promotions are more difficult.

    So if women are not allowed in combat, you’re limiting their opportunities for promotion.

    Which is a problem. Unless you think that the purpose of our military is to fight wars and protect America. In which case you don’t care who gets promoted, as long as the military is highly effective.

    In sports, we teach kids that the team is more important than the individual. In today’s military, perhaps that is not the case.

    Point taken. But the military can’t fight wars without those people who back them up.

    • #3
  4. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    iWe (View Comment):
    In the UK, they let women into the navy. Within the first year, HALF of them “became” pregnant. Shocker.

    Women in particular desire intimacy, and the army is not an environment that provides that; it’s not intended to, unless you talk about working as a team. I think some women mistake physical intimacy as a substitute. It happens in any environment.

    • #4
  5. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Women have beaten me over my head all my life that they are as good as any man except when they are better.   They want this so let them have it.  I am tired of fighting a losing battle.   Actually since we are being required to fill most positions in the country with equal numbers of gender lets make it a requirement that the military be 50% women.   

    • #5
  6. Chuck Thatcher
    Chuck
    @Chuckles

    Somebody (don’t recall whom) shared this letter:  I then passed it along to a man with five boys and one girl.  He left the military as an MP who had served with Special Forces.

    His response was that he loved it:

    Rep. Huizenga,

    I am a taxpayer from your district writing to you because I’ve read in the news that a bill has been introduced to the House considering a requirement for women to register for the draft.

    I want to encourage you to oppose any requirement for our daughters to register in the Selective Service.

    The truth is that God created men and women differently. Men and women are physically and mentally suited to excel in different areas.

    The Declaration of Independence evokes “the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God” in its preamble. Nature itself, via physical endowment, and Nature’s God, through His Word, have assigned to men the roles of protector and provider. I am trying to teach my sons that it honors God and honors women when men live out these assignments, imitating our Protector and Provider in Heaven.

    It would be wrong for our government to force fathers, husbands, and brothers to abandon their God-given duty to protect their daughters, wives, and sisters from harm. The role of fighting is for men. To force families to give up their daughters to military service is a form of discrimination against Christian people who are attempting to order their lives according to the revelation of scripture.

    I believe that God gave me a daughter as a precious gift, and it is my God-assigned duty to protect her and provide for her. I want to protect her from being shot at by enemy troops. I want to protect her from being sexually assaulted by fellow soldiers.

    If drafting women is something that the Congress finds inevitable, could you a least include a provision that would allow a father, such as myself, to go and serve in the stead of my daughter, should she be called upon? I would rather die fighting myself, than send her to war. It’s my duty, not hers.

    Sincerely,

    EDIT: You can remove the word “christian” from the above letter with no loss of applicability.

    • #6
  7. GPentelie Coolidge
    GPentelie
    @GPentelie

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):
    … lets make it a requirement that the military be 50% women.   

    These days, this could be easily accomplished by simply reassigning the gender of enough males to female upon recruitment, complete with nicely framed certificates honoring such recruits’ induction into womanhood. Voila, equity goals met! 

    • #7
  8. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    GPentelie (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):
    … lets make it a requirement that the military be 50% women.

    These days, this could be easily accomplished by simply reassigning the gender of enough males to female upon recruitment, complete with nicely framed certificates honoring such recruits’ induction into womanhood. Voila, equity goals met!

    Please don’t give them any ideas, GPentelie. Somebody might actually take you up on that!

    • #8
  9. Postmodern Hoplite Coolidge
    Postmodern Hoplite
    @PostmodernHoplite

    Good post, and I hope it is promoted to the Main Feed.

    Thirty years in uniform (US Army, both active duty and reserves), including Infantry, Transportation, and Chemical Corps. I likely would bore the socks off of every reader with anecdotes regarding the myriad problems with the military’s (mostly failed) attempts to erase the differences between men and women in the various services.

    Bottom line: It was a failure when attempted in the 1990’s. It was a failure when forced into law in 2015. The civilian academics, bureaucrats, and elites who favors such policies don’t care that they are a millstone around the neck of combat efficacy. The uniformed senior leaders (the “perfumed princes”) who go along with it are motivated by the desire to protect their own careers, rather than the higher ethical and moral calling of acting and doing what necessary to protect and preserve those who go into harm’s way.

    • #9
  10. GPentelie Coolidge
    GPentelie
    @GPentelie

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    GPentelie (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):
    … lets make it a requirement that the military be 50% women.

    These days, this could be easily accomplished by simply reassigning the gender of enough males to female upon recruitment, complete with nicely framed certificates honoring such recruits’ induction into womanhood. Voila, equity goals met!

    Please don’t give them any ideas, GPentelie. Somebody might actually take you up on that!

    Yes, I can think of at least one “gal” who would be happy to:

    • #10
  11. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Postmodern Hoplite (View Comment):

    Good post, and I hope it is promoted to the Main Feed.

    Thirty years in uniform (US Army, both active duty and reserves), including Infantry, Transportation, and Chemical Corps. I likely would bore the socks off of every reader with anecdotes regarding the myriad problems with the military’s (mostly failed) attempts to erase the differences between men and women in the various services.

    Bottom line: It was a failure when attempted in the 1990’s. It was a failure when forced into law in 2015. The civilian academics, bureaucrats, and elites who favors such policies don’t care that they are a millstone around the neck of combat efficacy. The uniformed senior leaders (the “perfumed princes”) who go along with it are motivated by the desire to protect their own careers, rather than the higher ethical and moral calling of acting and doing what necessary to protect and preserve those who go into harm’s way.

    Thanks, PH. I respect your opinion from other times you’ve commented, so I’m glad you’ve weighed in. I’m so sorry that the military continues to use this issue to pad their own careers.

    • #11
  12. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    I have never served in the military, but the nature of my job has required me to spend a lot of time in their presence and to use a technique I call “listening.” The nature of the role of our special forces requires that they rely on the performance of each and every member of the team to be nearly superhuman. Someone who, say, can’t keep up will put the mission and the lives of the team at an unacceptable risk. (They also want gear that works the first time every time. They really like that a lot.) The military goes to a great deal of expense to identify individuals capable of performing at this level, and training them to do what needs to be done virtually by reflex.

    The military is not an encounter group. It exists to perform its function, which is to kill people and break their stuff. If you need to build your self-esteem, join a mental health support group. You’re less likely to get yourself and other people killed.

    • #12
  13. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Percival (View Comment):
    The military is not an encounter group. It exists to perform its function, which is to kill people and break their stuff. If you need to build your self-esteem, join a mental health support group. You’re less likely to get yourself and other people killed.

    Well said, Percival! Yes indeed!

    • #13
  14. OldPhil Coolidge
    OldPhil
    @OldPhil

    Unfortunately, it’s all part of the plan.

    • #14
  15. GPentelie Coolidge
    GPentelie
    @GPentelie

    OldPhil (View Comment):

    Unfortunately, it’s all part of the plan.

    OUT: Be all you can be!

    IN: Be whatever you like!

    • #15
  16. She Member
    She
    @She

    Excellent post, Susan.  It’s a topic which has come up now and then over the years, but I don’t remember when it’s been more cogently presented, or had more food for thought in it.   I think (although I’m sure many on the site know better than I–that even Israel, which regards its compulsory military service and training as necessary because it sees itself in a defensive posture, limits combat roles for women, although they do serve in some combat roles.  That–the “defense-at-home” argument–is the only one I think has some validity when it comes to training woman for combat roles.)

    Myself, I’d be glad, if push ever comes to shove–in the spirit of a great many Westerns I seem to remember–to be  handed a gun, told to stay in my kitchen and shoot anyone who comes through the door.  I think I could just about do that, at a pinch.

    • #16
  17. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Women have beaten me over my head all my life that they are as good as any man except when they are better. They want this so let them have it. I am tired of fighting a losing battle. Actually since we are being required to fill most positions in the country with equal numbers of gender lets make it a requirement that the military be 50% women.

    Also, we need to ensure women die at the same rates as men in the military. Lots of work to be done there. 

    And in jobs. We need quotas until women die at the same rate as men in jobs. 

    • #17
  18. Mad Gerald Coolidge
    Mad Gerald
    @Jose

    I spent 20 years in the USAF doing support jobs.  I am totally against having women in combat roles. 

     

    • #18
  19. Casey73 Coolidge
    Casey73
    @Casey73

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    I’ve never served in the military. But my understanding is that one problem here is that traditionally, the purpose of the military was to fight wars and protect America. That was the whole purpose of the military. So promotions generally happened for service in combat. Without serving in combat, promotions are more difficult.

    So if women are not allowed in combat, you’re limiting their opportunities for promotion.

    Which is a problem. Unless you think that the purpose of our military is to fight wars and protect America. In which case you don’t care who gets promoted, as long as the military is highly effective.

    In sports, we teach kids that the team is more important than the individual. In today’s military, perhaps that is not the case.

    I served in the army 72 – 78, the post-Vietnam era. I was an admin guy (combat arms guys called us REMFs, or Rear Echelon..you do the rest). Outside of a combat zone during that time enlisted promotions were pretty much automatic based on time in service/time in grade up to grade E4 for enlisted personnel. Starting at grade E5 (Sergeant or Specialist 5) it was more competitive and required recommendation by your commander, a board appearance and then placement on a list where promotion to the next rank was based on a cut off score the army issued monthly, generated by shortages of certain Military Occupation Specialty codes. 

    So prohibiting women from serving in combat under most circumstances doesn’t interfere with promotions based on merit in their job specialty.   

    • #19
  20. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    She (View Comment):

    Excellent post, Susan. It’s a topic which has come up now and then over the years, but I don’t remember when it’s been more cogently presented, or had more food for thought in it. I think (although I’m sure many on the site know better than I–that even Israel, which regards its compulsory military service and training as necessary because it sees itself in a defensive posture, limits combat roles for women, although they do serve in some combat roles. That–the “defense-at-home” argument–is the only one I think has some validity when it comes to training woman for combat roles.)

    Myself, I’d be glad, if push ever comes to shove–in the spirit of a great many Westerns I seem to remember–to be handed a gun, told to stay in my kitchen and shoot anyone who comes through the door. I think I could just about do that, at a pinch.

    Thanks so much for your generous comments, She. And they don’t call me Annie Oakley for nothin’!

    • #20
  21. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    GPentelie (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    GPentelie (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):
    … lets make it a requirement that the military be 50% women.

    These days, this could be easily accomplished by simply reassigning the gender of enough males to female upon recruitment, complete with nicely framed certificates honoring such recruits’ induction into womanhood. Voila, equity goals met!

    Please don’t give them any ideas, GPentelie. Somebody might actually take you up on that!

    Yes, I can think of at least one “gal” who would be happy to:

    I actually think the way to prevent more of this sort of thing is having the military include both sexes.

    There is a chain-migration phenomenon that I’ve seen happen in single-sex institutions such as colleges and whole towns and lots of organizations. I think it is part of the explanation for what happened in the Catholic Church in Massachusetts in the priest scandals. The Church, as much as I admire it, should have let and encouraged priests to have families a thousand years ago. Instead, in Massachusetts it became a haven for single-sex-interested people. I believe fervently that single-sex organizations are a really bad idea.

    The way to work with having both in the military is to have tough standards and stick to them. That will solve those problems. It would probably keep women out of combat where they don’t do well.

     

    • #21
  22. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Casey73 (View Comment):
    So prohibiting women from serving in combat under most circumstances doesn’t interfere with promotions based on merit in their job specialty.   

    That’s very helpful information, Casey. Thanks!

    • #22
  23. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    MarciN (View Comment):

    GPentelie (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    GPentelie (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):
    … lets make it a requirement that the military be 50% women.

    These days, this could be easily accomplished by simply reassigning the gender of enough males to female upon recruitment, complete with nicely framed certificates honoring such recruits’ induction into womanhood. Voila, equity goals met!

    Please don’t give them any ideas, GPentelie. Somebody might actually take you up on that!

    Yes, I can think of at least one “gal” who would be happy to:

    I actually think the way to prevent more of this sort of thing is having the military include both sexes.

    There is a chain-migration phenomenon that I’ve seen happen in single-sex institutions such as colleges and whole towns and lots of organizations. I think it is part of the explanation for what happened in the Catholic Church in Massachusetts in the priest scandals. The Church, as much as I admire it, should have let and encouraged priests to have families a thousand years ago. Instead, in Massachusetts it became a haven for single-sex-interested people. I believe fervently that single-sex organizations are a really bad idea.

    The way to work with having both in the military is to have tough standards and stick to them. That will solve those problems.

     

    The army isn’t and shouldn’t be a single sex organization. And to ignore the problems it causes by having both sexes serve in combat doesn’t help performance.

    • #23
  24. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    GPentelie (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    GPentelie (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):
    … lets make it a requirement that the military be 50% women.

    These days, this could be easily accomplished by simply reassigning the gender of enough males to female upon recruitment, complete with nicely framed certificates honoring such recruits’ induction into womanhood. Voila, equity goals met!

    Please don’t give them any ideas, GPentelie. Somebody might actually take you up on that!

    Yes, I can think of at least one “gal” who would be happy to:

    I actually think the way to prevent more of this sort of thing is having the military include both sexes.

    There is a chain-migration phenomenon that I’ve seen happen in single-sex institutions such as colleges and whole towns and lots of organizations. I think it is part of the explanation for what happened in the Catholic Church in Massachusetts in the priest scandals. The Church, as much as I admire it, should have let and encouraged priests to have families a thousand years ago. Instead, in Massachusetts it became a haven for single-sex-interested people. I believe fervently that single-sex organizations are a really bad idea.

    The way to work with having both in the military is to have tough standards and stick to them. That will solve those problems.

    The army isn’t and shouldn’t be a single sex organization. And to ignore the problems it causes by having both sexes serve in combat doesn’t help performance.

    Exactly. And I am glad that’s true. All they need to do is create and keep really stringent physical performance standards. That will keep women out of combat, for the most part.

    • #24
  25. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    “Women may require different tools than men to perform the same task,” the report said. “A mentality change is necessary to modify the archaic attitude that supplying tools to female service members is an act of accommodation versus simply providing our warfighters with the right tools for the job.”

    Key examples are body armor, helmets and rucksacks that are often too big for female soldiers and small-stature men.

    The Army has long had minimum height standards for men, among the reasons for which is that increasing the range of body sizes means increasing the variety of sizes of uniforms and other equipment, thus putting a greater strain on the supply chain. And all sorts of vehicles and weapons have been designed with an expected limited range of body sizes

    • #25
  26. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    MarciN (View Comment):
    The Church, as much as I admire it, should have let and encouraged priests to have families a thousand years ago.

    A little over thousand years ago was when the Church really started to crack down on families. It was not like it started out that way; they added it. 

     

    • #26
  27. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    iWe (View Comment):

    I want to address the harassment issue. Because I think it requires superhuman behavior.

    You take men who are already inclined to violence (albeit in a “legal” format). You put them in raw, life-or-death situations. You remove normal routine intimacy. And then you expect them to not behave in a direct manner when they see a woman they like the looks of?

    It is unrealistic at best.

    In the UK, they let women into the navy. Within the first year, HALF of them “became” pregnant. Shocker.

    Women on US Navy ships have a sudden wave of pregnancies before long and/or dangerous deployments too.

    • #27
  28. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    GPentelie (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):
    … lets make it a requirement that the military be 50% women.

    These days, this could be easily accomplished by simply reassigning the gender of enough males to female upon recruitment, complete with nicely framed certificates honoring such recruits’ induction into womanhood. Voila, equity goals met!

    Please don’t give them any ideas, GPentelie. Somebody might actually take you up on that!

    Well, it WOULD be a way to “balance” the military without giving up actual performance.

    • #28
  29. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    Postmodern Hoplite (View Comment):
    Bottom line: It was a failure when attempted in the 1990’s. It was a failure when forced into law in 2015. The civilian academics, bureaucrats, and elites who favors such policies don’t care that they are a millstone around the neck of combat efficacy.

    There have been shocking stories about physical fitness requirements being reduced so that candidates can pass the tests–not just soldiers and marines and sailors but also fire fighters and police officers. Some “woke” zealots pretend that the standards have not been lowered, while others pretend that the old standards were arbitrary and can be lowered without consequences.

    • #29
  30. Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr. Coolidge
    Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr.
    @BartholomewXerxesOgilvieJr

    It’s not just about abilities and proclivities. Fundamentally, from a biological survival-of-the-species point of view, women are more valuable than men. When a society is threatened and must be protected, men are expendable. In that situation, that’s what men are for.

    To expect that women should be treated the same way shows a completely failure, or refusal, to understand how reality works.

    • #30
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