“COVID Shots Are Still One Giant Experiment”

 

That was the headline. For a few hours.

I sometimes like to watch the Dark Horse podcast with biologists Brett Weinstein and Heather Heying. In their latest post, Brett called attention to an article in the web version of The Atlantic. The title is “COVID Shots Are Still One Giant Experiment.”

Rather, that was the headline until it changed, quickly. Now it doesn’t mention the word “experiment.”

However, the article still includes this line at the beginning of the fourth paragraph:

At the same time, COVID vaccines are still in a sort of beta-testing stage.

To be accurate, The Atlantic contends that the element of experimentation pertains to the difficulty in targeting the correct strain of COVID, because it has mutated many times.

They do not express concern about safety and side effects of the vaccines which have not, as far as I know, been thoroughly tested. That is what I’m concerned about.

Brett pointed out in a previous podcast that conducting medical experiments on people without their informed consent is a violation of the Nuremberg code. Seven doctors were hung in 1947 for violating that standard. But today, few people are concerned. Having declined the vaccine, I’m sure I don’t have standing to bring legal action.

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  1. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    One other thing Bret and / or Heather pointed out: while it resembles an experiment in many ways; it’s missing one important component. No one is collecting any data. For instance, a loved one recently had a stroke and no one ever inquired about his vax status. And will we ever find out how many shots football player Hamlin got before he collapsed on the field? 

     

     

     

    • #1
  2. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    At some point, it will all come out.

    • #2
  3. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Arahant (View Comment):

    At some point, it will all come out.

    I don’t think so. I think there will be old grannies like me whispering advice to grand daughters about avoiding some medical interventions. Old wive’s tales about the effectiveness of Vit D. 

    Do you think for a minute that the truth of what has occurred in our life times, or our parents, has come out?

    • #3
  4. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Annefy (View Comment):
    Do you think for a minute that the truth of what has occurred in our life times, or our parents, has come out?

    A lot of things have come out. Maybe not everything. But it’s just like the dangers of tobacco or asbestos both came out eventually.

    • #4
  5. EODmom Coolidge
    EODmom
    @EODmom

    Arahant (View Comment):

    At some point, it will all come out.

    Doubtful. ‘They’ lost interest in tracking and collecting as soon as the problems became publicly known. They knew of problems before the program began, but when the public had an interest in facts any semblance of protocols for analysis stopped. 

    • #5
  6. EODmom Coolidge
    EODmom
    @EODmom

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):
    Do you think for a minute that the truth of what has occurred in our life times, or our parents, has come out?

    A lot of things have come out. Maybe not everything. But it’s just like the dangers of tobacco or asbestos both came out eventually.

    Those dangers became currency for the plaintiffs’ bar. Do you think that will ever happen with the Covid damages? Seems unlikely to me. 

    • #6
  7. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    EODmom (View Comment):
    Those dangers became currency for the plaintiffs’ bar. Do you think that will ever happen with the Covid damages? Seems unlikely to me. 

    It took about four hundred years with tobacco. Give it time.

    • #7
  8. EODmom Coolidge
    EODmom
    @EODmom

    Arahant (View Comment):

    EODmom (View Comment):
    Those dangers became currency for the plaintiffs’ bar. Do you think that will ever happen with the Covid damages? Seems unlikely to me.

    It took about four hundred years with tobacco. Give it time.

    Maybe so – I’ll wait to see the movie after the book comes out. Nice to think so, tho. A lot of people have been wounded and honest intellectual endeavor maybe mortally wounded. So many lies. 

    • #8
  9. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Annefy (View Comment):

    One other thing Bret and / or Heather pointed out: while it resembles an experiment in many ways; it’s missing one important component. No one is collecting any data. For instance, a loved one recently had a stroke and no one ever inquired about his vax status. And will we ever find out how many shots football player Hamlin got before he collapsed on the field?

    Hardly, in the US alone:

    VAERS (the most misuse database by the anti-vaxxers)

    VSD

    PRISM

    CISA

    BEST System

    https://www.hhs.gov/immunization/basics/safety/index.html

    • #9
  10. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Annefy (View Comment):

    One other thing Bret and / or Heather pointed out: while it resembles an experiment in many ways; it’s missing one important component. No one is collecting any data. For instance, a loved one recently had a stroke and no one ever inquired about his vax status. And will we ever find out how many shots football player Hamlin got before he collapsed on the field?

    Actually, there is oodles I’d data showing that vaccines are  very effective in preventing death from Covid  in people over 50.   Every data set shows the same thing.   I’ve posted lots of it on Ricochet. Unfortunately, there are those who let their political beliefs blind them to all that data.   

    Example…

    The graphic depicts cumulative excess deaths per 100,000 population on the vertices axis and % of population over 60 years old.   To avoid other influences, let’s look at High Income Countries – pink in the above graphic.

    From highest per capita to lowest we have

    Romania

    Poland

    Italy

    USA

    Great Britain

    Germany

    France

    SKorea

    Japan

    Given that COVID hits the elderly especially hard  it’s unusual that Japan has both the oldest population and smallest excess death.

    I’ve looked up the number of doses of vaccine administered per 100 population and added it into the excess death ranking …

    Romania          86

    Poland            145

    Italy                 243

    USA                  200

    GrBritain       224

    Germany       228

    France            226

    SKorea           250

    Japan              299

    So, if the vaccines are harmful then Japan – the most thoroughly vaccinated country –  should have the highest excess deaths not the lowest.   In fact, there is a clear inverse relationship between  vaccines and excess death…. The more thoroughly vaccinated a country the lower the excess deaths.    This is exactly the reverse of what would be expected if this ‘killer jab’ rumor was correct.

    The outlier is Italy.   Looking at the excess deaths, the vast majority occurred before April 2021 … that is, before vaccines were widely available.

    • #10
  11. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Annef football player Hamlin got before he collapsed on the field?Poland

     

     

    The outlier is Italy. Looking at the excess deaths, the vast majority occurred before April 2021 … that is, before vaccines were widely available.

    Part of the reason for Italy’s high death rate was the virtual collapse of their medical system. Not only does Italy have a large percentage of elderly in their population, Italy has few beds for serious medical care (ICU etc)  compared to the USA or Germany [USA 34.7 ICU beds/100K.  Germany 29.2, Italy 12.5]. There were reports from Italy that they were resorting to using ObGyns for intensive care (and that is very problematic).

    Many nations with nationalized healthcare use the ICU to restrict the performance of major surgeries- as in “sorry granny you can’t have you surgery today b/c the ICU is full” (b/c it is so small by design). It is more politically acceptable to blame the ICU for delaying surgery than admitting you are rationing care to save money (ie you hope granny dies before she gets her surgery so as to cut costs-no one will publicly admit that)- Canada is a prime example of this technique.

    Italy has many “hospital beds” but they are not set up for the care of the really ill-they are a sop to the nurses unions to increase employment. Low acuity beds are only a fraction of the cost of high acuity care beds- and the nurses aren’t as highly trained. The relative paucity of ICU beds is also why the UK did an abrupt about face after initially resisiting lock downs- their ICU numbers are worse than Italy.

    Italy began to triage care- and the elderly (who where the sickest ) got the short straw.

    a good look at some of the issues:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/italy-falling-apart-coronavirus-pandemic-doctors-tough-choices-2020-3?op=1

    • #11
  12. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    One other thing Bret and / or Heather pointed out: while it resembles an experiment in many ways; it’s missing one important component. No one is collecting any data. For instance, a loved one recently had a stroke and no one ever inquired about his vax status. And will we ever find out how many shots football player Hamlin got before he collapsed on the field?

     

    Actually, there is oodles I’d data showing that vaccines are very effective in preventing death from Covid in people over 50. Every data set shows the same thing. I’ve posted lots of it on Ricochet. Unfortunately, there are those who let their political beliefs blind them to all that data.

    Example…

    The graphic depicts cumulative excess deaths per 100,000 population on the vertices axis and % of population over 60 years old. To avoid other influences, let’s look at High Income Countries – pink in the above graphic.

    From highest per capita to lowest we have

    Romania

    Poland

    Italy

    USA

    Great Britain

    Germany

    France

    SKorea

    Japan

    Given that COVID hits the elderly especially hard it’s unusual that Japan has both the oldest population and smallest excess death.

    I’ve looked up the number of doses of vaccine administered per 100 population and added it into the excess death ranking …

    Romania 86

    Poland 145

    Italy 243

    USA 200

    GrBritain 224

    Germany 228

    France 226

    SKorea 250

    Japan 299

    So, if the vaccines are harmful then Japan – the most thoroughly vaccinated country – should have the highest excess deaths not the lowest. In fact, there is a clear inverse relationship between vaccines and excess death…. The more thoroughly vaccinated a country the lower the excess deaths. This is exactly the reverse of what would be expected if this ‘killer jab’ rumor was correct.

    The outlier is Italy. Looking at the excess deaths, the vast majority occurred before April 2021 … that is, before vaccines were widely available.

    When did I mention vaccine effectiveness? When did I mention excess deaths? 

    • #12
  13. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    One other thing Bret and / or Heather pointed out: while it resembles an experiment in many ways; it’s missing one important component. No one is collecting any data. For instance, a loved one recently had a stroke and no one ever inquired about his vax status. And will we ever find out how many shots football player Hamlin got before he collapsed on the field?

    Hardly, in the US alone:

    VAERS (the most misuse database by the anti-vaxxers)

    VSD

    PRISM

    CISA

    BEST System

    https://www.hhs.gov/immunization/basics/safety/index.html

    As mentioned, I have a loved one who recently had a stroke. At no time was his vax status been inquired about. Not in five days in the hospital, not in several appointments with a cardiologist, not in several appointments with a neurologist. 

    Which leads me to believe that is data that is not being collected. 

    • #13
  14. Gossamer Cat Coolidge
    Gossamer Cat
    @GossamerCat

    Ekosj (View Comment):
    Actually, there is oodles I’d data showing that vaccines are  very effective in preventing death from Covid  in people over 50.   Every data set shows the same thing.   I’ve posted lots of it on Ricochet. Unfortunately, there are those who let their political beliefs blind them to all that data.   

    The issue of effectiveness is separate from the issue of coerced participation in essentially a large clinical trial.  I participated voluntarily but many other lives were wrecked because they chose not to.  Even if the vaccines weren’t experimental, I would have objected to forced participation.  But they are experimental.  So I do consider it a violation of the Nuremberg Codes. 

    • #14
  15. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Annefy (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    One other thing Bret and / or Heather pointed out: while it resembles an experiment in many ways; it’s missing one important component. No one is collecting any data. For instance, a loved one recently had a stroke and no one ever inquired about his vax status. And will we ever find out how many shots football player Hamlin got before he collapsed on the field?

    Hardly, in the US alone:

    VAERS (the most misuse database by the anti-vaxxers)

    VSD

    PRISM

    CISA

    BEST System

    https://www.hhs.gov/immunization/basics/safety/index.html

    As mentioned, I have a loved one who recently had a stroke. At no time was his vax status been inquired about. Not in five days in the hospital, not in several appointments with a cardiologist, not in several appointments with a neurologist.

    Which leads me to believe that is data that is not being collected.

    maybe b/c they already know that there is no significant relationship between his vax & stroke at this pont- did they ask about heavy metal exposure? Dioxan exposure? Roundup use? You also overlook their ability to access his medical records for such information.

    • #15
  16. Mad Gerald Coolidge
    Mad Gerald
    @Jose

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    One other thing Bret and / or Heather pointed out: while it resembles an experiment in many ways; it’s missing one important component. No one is collecting any data. For instance, a loved one recently had a stroke and no one ever inquired about his vax status. And will we ever find out how many shots football player Hamlin got before he collapsed on the field?

     

    Actually, there is oodles I’d data showing that vaccines are very effective in preventing death from Covid in people over 50. Every data set shows the same thing. I’ve posted lots of it on Ricochet. Unfortunately, there are those who let their political beliefs blind them to all that data.

    Example…

    The graphic depicts cumulative excess deaths per 100,000 population on the vertices axis and % of population over 60 years old. To avoid other influences, let’s look at High Income Countries – pink in the above graphic.

    From highest per capita to lowest we have

    Romania

    Poland

    Italy

    USA

    Great Britain

    Germany

    France

    SKorea

    Japan

    Given that COVID hits the elderly especially hard it’s unusual that Japan has both the oldest population and smallest excess death.

    I’ve looked up the number of doses of vaccine administered per 100 population and added it into the excess death ranking …

    Romania 86

    Poland 145

    Italy 243

    USA 200

    GrBritain 224

    Germany 228

    France 226

    SKorea 250

    Japan 299

    So, if the vaccines are harmful then Japan – the most thoroughly vaccinated country – should have the highest excess deaths not the lowest. In fact, there is a clear inverse relationship between vaccines and excess death…. The more thoroughly vaccinated a country the lower the excess deaths. This is exactly the reverse of what would be expected if this ‘killer jab’ rumor was correct.

    The outlier is Italy. Looking at the excess deaths, the vast majority occurred before April 2021 … that is, before vaccines were widely available.

    This data does not show differences in hospital care, rates of obesity or other co-morbidities, or how COVID cases were treated.  It also does not show areas where both death and vaccination rates were low, like Africa.

    I doubt that medical care in Romania is on par with Japan.

    And in any case, my point was that the vaccinations were experimental, and that testing was not done to completion.  That was why the emergency use authorization was invoked.

    • #16
  17. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    One other thing Bret and / or Heather pointed out: while it resembles an experiment in many ways; it’s missing one important component. No one is collecting any data. For instance, a loved one recently had a stroke and no one ever inquired about his vax status. And will we ever find out how many shots football player Hamlin got before he collapsed on the field?

    Hardly, in the US alone:

    VAERS (the most misuse database by the anti-vaxxers)

    VSD

    PRISM

    CISA

    BEST System

    https://www.hhs.gov/immunization/basics/safety/index.html

    As mentioned, I have a loved one who recently had a stroke. At no time was his vax status been inquired about. Not in five days in the hospital, not in several appointments with a cardiologist, not in several appointments with a neurologist.

    Which leads me to believe that is data that is not being collected.

    maybe b/c they already know that there is no significant relationship between his vax & stroke at this pont– did they ask about heavy metal exposure? Dioxan exposure? Roundup use? You also overlook their ability to access his medical records for such information.

    Since they’re not gathering data, I’m confused how “they already know there is no significant relationship between his vax & stroke”.

    I’m not familiar with how medical records are stored and accessed. But there were lots and lots of questions about medical procedures that had been performed recently within the same hospital, so I find it doubtful that they were regularly accessing the medical records they had on hand, let alone any procedure/vax done off site. Especially when the vax was available at drive thrus and grocery stores.

    • #17
  18. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Annefy (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    One other thing Bret and / or Heather pointed out: while it resembles an experiment in many ways; it’s missing one important component. No one is collecting any data. For instance, a loved one recently had a stroke and no one ever inquired about his vax status. And will we ever find out how many shots football player Hamlin got before he collapsed on the field?

    Hardly, in the US alone:

    VAERS (the most misuse database by the anti-vaxxers)

    VSD

    PRISM

    CISA

    BEST System

    https://www.hhs.gov/immunization/basics/safety/index.html

    As mentioned, I have a loved one who recently had a stroke. At no time was his vax status been inquired about. Not in five days in the hospital, not in several appointments with a cardiologist, not in several appointments with a neurologist.

    Which leads me to believe that is data that is not being collected.

    maybe b/c they already know that there is no significant relationship between his vax & stroke at this pont– did they ask about heavy metal exposure? Dioxan exposure? Roundup use? You also overlook their ability to access his medical records for such information.

    Since they’re not gathering data, I’m confused how “they already know there is no significant relationship between his vax & stroke”.

    I’m not familiar with how medical records are stored and accessed. But there were lots and lots of questions about medical procedures that had been performed recently within the same hospital, so I find it doubtful that they were regularly accessing the medical records they had on hand, let alone any procedure/vax done off site. Especially when the vax was available at drive thrus and grocery stores.

    If they didn’t access his available records it is at least borderline malpractice- it is routine.

    • #18
  19. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    One other thing Bret and / or Heather pointed out: while it resembles an experiment in many ways; it’s missing one important component. No one is collecting any data. For instance, a loved one recently had a stroke and no one ever inquired about his vax status. And will we ever find out how many shots football player Hamlin got before he collapsed on the field?

    Hardly, in the US alone:

    VAERS (the most misuse database by the anti-vaxxers)

    VSD

    PRISM

    CISA

    BEST System

    https://www.hhs.gov/immunization/basics/safety/index.html

    As mentioned, I have a loved one who recently had a stroke. At no time was his vax status been inquired about. Not in five days in the hospital, not in several appointments with a cardiologist, not in several appointments with a neurologist.

    Which leads me to believe that is data that is not being collected.

    maybe b/c they already know that there is no significant relationship between his vax & stroke at this pont– did they ask about heavy metal exposure? Dioxan exposure? Roundup use? You also overlook their ability to access his medical records for such information.

    Since they’re not gathering data, I’m confused how “they already know there is no significant relationship between his vax & stroke”.

    I’m not familiar with how medical records are stored and accessed. But there were lots and lots of questions about medical procedures that had been performed recently within the same hospital, so I find it doubtful that they were regularly accessing the medical records they had on hand, let alone any procedure/vax done off site. Especially when the vax was available at drive thrus and grocery stores.

    If they didn’t access his available records it is at least borderline malpractice- it is routine.

    I have no idea if they did or they didn’t access his health records. But as mentioned, there were many, many other questions. With the barrage of inquiries, we were both surprised that anything Covid related was avoided.

    • #19
  20. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    One other thing Bret and / or Heather pointed out: while it resembles an experiment in many ways; it’s missing one important component. No one is collecting any data. For instance, a loved one recently had a stroke and no one ever inquired about his vax status. And will we ever find out how many shots football player Hamlin got before he collapsed on the field?

     

    Actually, there is oodles I’d data showing that vaccines are very effective in preventing death from Covid in people over 50. Every data set shows the same thing. I’ve posted lots of it on Ricochet. Unfortunately, there are those who let their political beliefs blind them to all that data.

    Example…

    The graphic depicts cumulative excess deaths per 100,000 population on the vertices axis and % of population over 60 years old. To avoid other influences, let’s look at High Income Countries – pink in the above graphic.

    From highest per capita to lowest we have

    Romania

    Poland

    Italy

    USA

    Great Britain

    Germany

    France

    SKorea

    Japan

    Given that COVID hits the elderly especially hard it’s unusual that Japan has both the oldest population and smallest excess death.

    I’ve looked up the number of doses of vaccine administered per 100 population and added it into the excess death ranking …

    Romania 86

    Poland 145

    Italy 243

    USA 200

    GrBritain 224

    Germany 228

    France 226

    SKorea 250

    Japan 299

    So, if the vaccines are harmful then Japan – the most thoroughly vaccinated country – should have the highest excess deaths not the lowest. In fact, there is a clear inverse relationship between vaccines and excess death…. The more thoroughly vaccinated a country the lower the excess deaths. This is exactly the reverse of what would be expected if this ‘killer jab’ rumor was correct.

    The outlier is Italy. Looking at the excess deaths, the vast majority occurred before April 2021 … that is, before vaccines were widely available.

    When did I mention vaccine effectiveness? When did I mention excess deaths?

    If vaccines were causing strokes and heart attacks then excess deaths would be up in countries with high vaccination rates … and they are not.

    • #20
  21. Sandy Member
    Sandy
    @Sandy

    We need autopsy data, and autopsies are at a record low according to The Epoch Times today.   (Probably behind a paywall.  Time to subscribe.)  Maybe they are low for good reasons, maybe not.  For some reason I suspect “not,” especially since pathologist Dr. Ryan Cole wonders where all the autopsies are.   

    And then why should we trust data coming out of hospitals that were incentivized to, among other horrors,  report that causes of death were from covid?   Yes, I know that has been denied, but I find the conservative Association of American Physicians and Surgeons report on this to be compelling, especially after reading countless stories from patients concerning their treatment.  https://aapsonline.org/bidens-bounty-on-your-life-hospitals-incentive-payments-for-covid-19/

    • #21
  22. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    One other thing Bret and / or Heather pointed out: while it resembles an experiment in many ways; it’s missing one important component. No one is collecting any data. For instance, a loved one recently had a stroke and no one ever inquired about his vax status. And will we ever find out how many shots football player Hamlin got before he collapsed on the field?

     

    Actually, there is oodles I’d data showing that vaccines are very effective in preventing death from Covid in people over 50. Every data set shows the same thing. I’ve posted lots of it on Ricochet. Unfortunately, there are those who let their political beliefs blind them to all that data.

    Example…

    The graphic depicts cumulative excess deaths per 100,000 population on the vertices axis and % of population over 60 years old. To avoid other influences, let’s look at High Income Countries – pink in the above graphic.

    From highest per capita to lowest we have

    Romania

    Poland

    Italy

    USA

    Great Britain

    Germany

    France

    SKorea

    Japan

    Given that COVID hits the elderly especially hard it’s unusual that Japan has both the oldest population and smallest excess death.

    I’ve looked up the number of doses of vaccine administered per 100 population and added it into the excess death ranking …

    Romania 86

    Poland 145

    Italy 243

    USA 200

    GrBritain 224

    Germany 228

    France 226

    SKorea 250

    Japan 299

    So, if the vaccines are harmful then Japan – the most thoroughly vaccinated country – should have the highest excess deaths not the lowest. In fact, there is a clear inverse relationship between vaccines and excess death…. The more thoroughly vaccinated a country the lower the excess deaths. This is exactly the reverse of what would be expected if this ‘killer jab’ rumor was correct.

    The outlier is Italy. Looking at the excess deaths, the vast majority occurred before April 2021 … that is, before vaccines were widely available.

    When did I mention vaccine effectiveness? When did I mention excess deaths?

    If vaccines were causing strokes and heart attacks then excess deaths would be up in countries with high vaccination rates … and they are not.

    Strokes and heart attacks are always fatal? I was unaware. I’ll have to let my loved one know …

    • #22
  23. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Annefy (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    One other thing Bret and / or Heather pointed out: while it resembles an experiment in many ways; it’s missing one important component. No one is collecting any data. For instance, a loved one recently had a stroke and no one ever inquired about his vax status. And will we ever find out how many shots football player Hamlin got before he collapsed on the field?

    Hardly, in the US alone:

    VAERS (the most misuse database by the anti-vaxxers)

    VSD

    PRISM

    CISA

    BEST System

    https://www.hhs.gov/immunization/basics/safety/index.html

    As mentioned, I have a loved one who recently had a stroke. At no time was his vax status been inquired about. Not in five days in the hospital, not in several appointments with a cardiologist, not in several appointments with a neurologist.

    Which leads me to believe that is data that is not being collected.

    And if data is not being collected, valid charts cannot be created.

    • #23
  24. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    All things being equal? All things are never equal. There are still debates going on about injection sites, whether or not hitting a vein instead of pure muscle has an effect, etc. And then there’s the co-morbidities to consider. Are they tracking multiple boosters? Vax plus previous infection? Are there control groups?

    I’m neither doctor nor scientist, but I know medicine is as much art as science because every person is different. Even with genetic and environmental similarities it’s bewildering. Take my family (Please!)

    My wife and I got it with no vax. She was asymptomatic. Mine was moderate.

    Daughter, no vax, got it. Bad. Needed monoclonal antibodies but was never hospitalized.

    Son #1, no vax, no Covid.

    Son #2, was exposed multiple times before vax, didn’t get it. Got vaxxed, got Covid.

    Son #3, had to get vax for the Academy, never got it.

    Father-in-law, early 90s, insulin-dependent diabetic, no vax, highly exposed, never got it. 

    Small sample size, but bewildering nonetheless.

    • #24
  25. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    EJHill (View Comment):

    All things being equal? All things are never equal. There are still debates going on about injection sites, whether or not hitting a vein instead of pure muscle has an effect, etc. And then there’s the co-morbidities to consider. Are they tracking multiple boosters? Vax plus previous infection? Are there control groups?

    I’m neither doctor nor scientist, but I know medicine is as much art as science because every person is different. Even with genetic and environmental similarities it’s bewildering. Take my family (Please!)

    My wife and I got it with no vax. She was asymptomatic. Mine was moderate.

    Daughter, no vax, got it. Bad. Needed monoclonal antibodies but was never hospitalized.

    Son #1, no vax, no Covid.

    Son #2, was exposed multiple times before vax, didn’t get it. Got vaxxed, got Covid.

    Son #3, had to get vax for the Academy, never got it.

    Father-in-law, early 90s, insulin-dependent diabetic, no vax, highly exposed, never got it.

    Small sample size, but bewildering nonetheless.

    My sample size is bigger (kids in law, grand kids, 15 +); a few Covid cases, none bad. Didn’t even require a doctor visit. I was prob the worse in late October 2020. The interesting thing that we are beginning to think is key is that JY got very sick around Christmas 2019. He was sick enough to stay home from work, gave it to SIL, daughter and both kids. Another son and DIL also got it. It was so bad everyone went home early, just to separate. I was the only one who did not succumb and I was frankly glad to see them all go; as the only healthy adult I was in charge.

    None of the people who got ill in 2019 got vaxxed, nor have they gotten Covid. Did I mention JY (and his boss) got ill after spending several days in a conference room with several Chinese businessmen? Also worthy of note: no one took any mitigation measures. No one was working from home, no one wore masks unless it was required. We gathered often with each other and anyone interested.

    Only one person in our sample group got any shots; while he was very ill in late 2021, he was on the way home from Kabul, so it was prob a variety of viruses, bacterium, God knows what. And I’m happy to report it certainly didn’t affect his reproduction abilities. He has since had a baby girl and just shared us that he has twins (a boy and girl) due this fall.

    • #25
  26. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):
    Do you think for a minute that the truth of what has occurred in our life times, or our parents, has come out?

    A lot of things have come out. Maybe not everything. But it’s just like the dangers of tobacco or asbestos both came out eventually.

    How can you say “a lot” when you have no idea of what we don’t know?

    I was born in 58. I don’t believe most of what I know

    • #26
  27. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Annefy (View Comment):
    How can you say “a lot” when you have no idea of what we don’t know?

    I think most of it is out there already. Yes, it’s being suppressed, but it keeps popping up.

    • #27
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