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Which View of DeSantis Is Correct?
There are basically two perspectives on Governor Ron DeSantis: (1) committed anti-woke warrior who would pursue an America First-style agenda without the character flaws of President Trump, or (2) a Trump-killer politician being propped up by the GOPe to restore the Republican wing of the uniparty to power in the White House.
The former perspective reflects a lot of negative press by progressive media and favorable press by conservative media. The latter view has been long held by Sundance at the Conservative Tree House and is gaining adherents by former fans of the Governor. One example is Roger L. Simon writing for The Epoch Times:
But I didn’t know … how [the attack on Disney] was all something of a charade. As I started to learn this, not just from the outsider candidate, but elsewhere too, I began to revise my opinion of the Florida governor….
What we need now more than ever is real, not faux, transparency.
For a while, Trump has been telling us everything good that was done by DeSantis was copied from him. I used to think that was unfair. Now, I wonder.
What is causing (accelerating) this change of heart? Well, it turns out while talking a strong game against Disney, DeSantis has actually been preserving some perks for it. Per Simon, Vivek Ramaswamy has pointed out some things:
- DeSantis signed a political anti-discrimination statute that penalized companies for engaging in viewpoint-based censorship on the internet. This was a signature piece of legislation in his anti-woke crusade, but the law specifically exempts companies in Florida that own a theme park larger than 25 acres. Disney’s internet properties and streaming services were exempted from a statute that was designed to stem corporate ‘wokeness’ in Florida.”
- Current Florida tech legislation has new loopholes for Disney.
A DeSantis-supported 2023 bill to safeguard technology companies from harvesting Floridians’ personal information is written in a way that would include traditional technology companies that own and operate internet properties − but not Disney − by applying to companies only if their online advertising accounts for 50% of the company’s revenue, despite Disney’s advanced online advertisement business.This is part of a broader pattern of behavior for DeSantis, a bait-and-switch headline strategy with respect to supposedly woke companies that he goes out of his way to protect.
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DeSantis’ supposed reining in of BlackRock’s ESG (environmental, social, and governance) investment in Florida is also eyewash. “DeSantis purported to take BlackRock to task by prominently announcing that Florida’s treasury would yank $2 billion in assets from the financial services company. .. [T]he move was just a PR stunt. The money Florida pulled wasn’t even causing the real ESG-related trouble. Florida claimed it pulled the money because it didn’t want to “fund BlackRock’s social engineering project.” But BlackRock pursues its environmental, social and governance investing strategy mainly via its clients’ stock holdings, where BlackRock leverages its position as the largest “shareholder” in American companies to push environmental and social goals. Florida’s $2 billion was largely in cash and bonds, not stocks, and it represented a fraction of the $13 billion total Florida had invested in BlackRock funds.”
Simon stills finds lot to love about Gov. DeSantis. As do I. But we have now had decades of Republicans taking stands against progressivism to generate campaign contributions, electoral support and enthusiasm amongst the conservative punditry, only to sit back and enjoy the scrimmage over the 50-yard line rather than moving the ball down the field as progressives do.
GOPe support for DeSantis is a red flag of sorts. Whether you personally like President Trump or not, the policies he pursued –by and large–were good for America and consistent with our constitutional system (unlike the current and predecessor regimes). He was stabbed in the back by GOPe whenever they felt free to do so, and thus attenuated what should have been a remarkable assault on progressivism. And they seem to do this consistently.
So the question is: which view of DeSantis is correct: anti-woke warrior or GOPe operative? Or is there a third option?
Published in General
Yes, for some it’s not even about results or character. He’s just icky.
Anyway, the GOPe has more than just that wing. If they genuinely cared about a more conservative agenda then we never would have had President Trump to begin with. I believe that the same reasons they demonized Trump apply to DeSantis. So they will eventually do the same to him too., assuming DeSantis is the conservative rock most of us assume he is.
I think you finally found some things that separate Trump from the republicans that you don’t like. In fairness, the republicans who support those three measures are in a tiny minority. Examples – Murkowski, Mittens, Suzy Collins, Tony Gonzales, etc…
Though I have not kept count, the Trump enthusiasts on this site have cited that his track record is something like 90% success or more in getting his endorsed candidates elected. That is a far greater success rate than what you call the “Bush-Republicans and Disney Conservatives.”
I’m beginning to feel like I’m in Invasion of the Body Snatchers (the original one, of course). It’d just be so easy to stop questioning and pushing. Just fall asleep, let go of the caricatured orange man and all the drama swirling around him. Just fall asleep, move on, no more worries about anything once I’m one of them…
By the way, I stilk think all this drama is not organic. DeSantis isn’t even declared yet and so many wanna start separating and picking sides for the Gathering. Why can’t we let things play out without getting all fanatic and like, “there can be only one!”
So a guy is in your opinion a member of the GOPe would “destroy the party”? I don’t blame him for trying since the members in good standing did all they could to undercut him. Trump had said, “drain the Swamp”. Notice that Trump didn’t say the “Democrat Swamp”. The GOPe noticed, I’m sure.
As far as the listed characteristics are concerned, why did members of the GOPe refuse to support his 2016 candidacy after taking an oath on the debate stage to support the eventual nominee? JEB! was no doubt a member. Maybe the others who lied publicly were just GOPe wannabes.
In any case, he was never accepted by the GOPe.
Those you cite in the bold, along with John McCain, and whatever went wrong with the Jeff Sessions AG appointment had a big impact on reducing the effectiveness of Trump’s Presidency. Mitch McConnell and whatever hold he has over a number of sitting Senators was another. The effects of these on Republican Party actions and failures to act reflect much of what I think of as the GOPe.
I would like to see Trump in for a second term and see if the continuing development of DeSantis would warrant pushing him to the national forefront.
I have a problem with some of the logic on display here. If someone thinks Donald Trump is the only acceptable candidate, fine. But don’t pretend that you are open to other candidates as well, then disqualify them because they are supported by people who don’t think that Trump is the cat’s meow. Of course the people supporting DeSantis, Nikki Haley, and Tim Scott are people who are not giant fans of Donald Trump. If they were, they would be backing Trump himself.
Another reason I like Trump for a second term is that his presence stimulates the rats to expose themselves and I think there are a few more who need to do that.
I can’t speak for others, but I’ve sent money to DeSantis and I don’t care for Trump’s recent comments about DeSantis. Still, if the choice is one of the usual suspects and not Trump or DeSantis, I’ll leave the top slot blank. BTW, I didn’t vote in 2016 at all. In CA there was no point.
Why would the “rats” expose themselves, Bob? They think they work so well in the shadows that I expect they’d prefer remaining there.
if the democrats had a brain in their heads, in 2017 after he came in to office they’d have sucked up to Trump, flattered him, and they could have turned him on dime to do whatever they wanted him to.
You don’t think DeSantis will be saddled with obligations to hire for his administration the people his donors want?
If they’ve already given him money, how could they hurt him? Refuse to donate the next time? And choose who? I’ve no doubt they’d try to punish him; I’m just not sure how.
I didn’t say that it was my opinion that Trump was in the GOPe. I was quoting all of VTK’s criterion for GOPe members and showing that each criterion applied just as easily to Trump.
No. A few republican party members “in good standing” did all they could to undercut him. The vast majority supported his presidency.
Your memory is short. Trump was the only Presidential Candidate who disavowed the oath to support the eventual winner of the Primary election. That is one of the ways he undercut the Republican Party. Trump had originally signed such a pledge put out by Rience Preibus, the head of the RNC, but Trump later reneged and said in a Town Hall meeting that he no longer honored that pledge. And the one candidate who didn’t support Trump’s nomination, Jeb Bush, never even signed the pledge.
Why would you automatically think DeSantis is corrupted by his donors? Does he have such a track record as governor or when he was a Congressman?
I think the GOPe is a political posture that various Republican politicians take, who have tenure, have their lives, careers, and fortunes invested in the current power system, and who determine what they will do and say and what legislation or narrative they will support based largely on the continuance of the system they inhabit which allows them to grow rich while being called a public servant.
Mitch McConnell is probably toward the top of the list.
The wealth and connections are only for those born to the GOPe. Paul Ryan was not GOPe for most of his career in elected office but entrenched in the midst of it now.
There’s a lot of conniving going on. DeSantis isn’t helping much by not addressing the issue of his financial support and, most importantly, by not actually declaring that he is running. None of this discussion matters if he isn’t even running. His coy act is getting a bit aggravating. That aside, he isn’t a billionaire and cannot self-fund.
Onstage, all 17 were asked if they’d take the pledge. Only Trump didn’t raise his hand. All the others did. Later, when Trump was the nominee, three refused to support him. They lied. Trump didn’t.
Not all republicans are members of the GOPe, so the fact that some republicans supported him is irrelevant to whether the GOPe undercut him.
EDIT: GOP candidates back off pledge to support nominee | CNN Politics
Yes. If they, the sitting establishment Republicans over the years in general, cared about those things that the MAGA supporters care about there never would have been a New York developer with a blunt tongue in the White House in the first place.
Someone at ricochet observed years ago that Trump was the symptom and not the cause.
And yet, President Trump opposed #2, lost friendships in #3 because of the stands he took, #4 is a meaningless statement given #1 (because your friends tend to be who you went to school with or work with which will not be “working class”; politeness is important), #5 is not President Trump, and #6 President Trump took no salary and lost net worth while President. So @stevenseward, this seems like not a description of Donald Trump.
I always respected the fact that Trump made, lost, and re-made billions in the private sector, unlike the current White House occupant who has never held a job in the private sector but somehow accumulated considerable wealth.
I think you’ve got it all wrong. This isn’t about any cat’s meow.
Picking a candidate is (for those voters who care at all) involves a long lot of things voters individually think should be accomplished, and there may be several things occupying the number-one must-do position. And for each candidate voters consider what each candidate is likely to want to do, and whether or not he will be able to accomplish it.
The Republican establishment has its own agenda, and I don’t know exactly where it gets it, but ultimately it is for largely everything Ricochet members individually rail against here. I’ve been waiting 40 years or more for Republicans to stand up for what they know their voters wanted and expected, but somehow, mysteriously, they vote against these voter priorities or don’t address them at all when they have both Houses and the Presidency and its relatively not that hard.
Choosing a candidate isn’t naturally an either/or election situation, but becomes whittled down to a black and white choice by voting day (with a few conscience votes thrown in for third-party candidates).
I think it’s a sad situation that we’re in when we basically have only two and a half acceptable presidential candidates who aren’t clearly within the GOPe class: Trump, Vivek, and 1/2 of a DeSantis candidacy (he is but he isn’t).
@randyweivoda, I agree that anyone who is a committed Trump voter is neither welcoming nor open to another candidate. I have trouble imagining (though its possible) that if Trump is not nominated that a committed Trump voter would stay home, unless they truly believe that the (R) is a “uniParty” shill that will do nothing to significantly affect the trajectory of the country. The question I think I am posing with the OP is whether individuals are supporting DeSantis at the moment without considering the issues that Vivek Ramaswamy is raising? This is of particular concern to those that want Trumpist policies without the tweets and think that DeSantis is the way to get them. Is that true? Personally I would love for it to be true. I have posted in the past that I think 2024 is going to be a meat grinder and that DeSantis should let Trump have at it given that we know he can survive it if anyone can. And if successful, DeSantis would be a strong ally at the state level setting himself up for 2028. My own guess is that forces are trying to use DeSantis and are playing on his ego. I think it is a mistake, but I would love to be proved wrong.
Even today candidates’ election chances are summed up in the accrued campaign money. They’re buying DeSantis — that’s what they hope to do with all candidates. And I think that candidates are naïve to think that they can run their own administrations without interference (or suggestions you can’t easily refuse) from donors. Donors can also cut down on the list of those people who would be willing to work in your administration.
But yes, the next election’s financing is in jeopardy, and if the candidate doesn’t follow through on megadonor’s expectations they can run PR against him in think tank publications and on the news cycle circuit. But the need for money never stops until you hang up your politician’s shoes.
And if you look at it, many politicians get their biggest pay-days after they are no longer in office with book deals and pundit jobs.
Well, megadonors have mega-impact.
So you’re not actually addressing any of the reasoning on this thread.
Who’s been disqualified? Who’s pretending?
The OP asked a straightforward question, albeit one that requires speculatuon. There are some assumptions built in. I thought one of them was an assumption that there is overlap between Trump and DeSantis, that they’re both of the MAGA/AF faction, and that voters interested in MAGA/AF would be happy with either, pending the question posed by the OP.
What does “survive” mean? I think DeSantis can win the presidency. I don’t know if Trump can. He is very undisciplined and continually says things that loses votes. DeSantis is not going to put any of us into a position of explaining celebrity rape or Sidney Powell. Discipline matters. Having discipline is easier, if you have principles and are not a D-bag.
Speaking of discipline, Nikki Haley tried to slam on DeSantis by saying that democracy is about working backroom deals with big corporations. That is a Freudian slip that GOP voters will hate.
I expected Clintonian triangulation with net gains for conservatives since we have the most to gain since the left has taken so much in the last many decades.
Also, Mitch McConnell and the 22 Republican senators who voted for the omnibus; Bushes I, II, and III; Liz Cheney; Republican governors Mike DeWine, Spencer Cox, Asa Hutchinson, Chris Sununu, Larry Hogan; Congress critters Fred Upton, Nancy Mace, Mike McCaul, John Katko, and others…