Poland Seizes Russian ‘Spy Nest’ In Warsaw

 

Moscow, where perpetual aggrievement flourishes, is upset with Poland. That’s nothing new in the history between the two countries.

Warsaw Mayor Rafal Trzaskowski on Monday said a fenced compound once used by Russia and now apparently empty had been seized.

Trzaskowski said the property would be made available to the Ukrainian community, to possibly house refugees taken in by Poland in the wake of Russia’s invasion.

Russians have never been good tenants much less good neighbors. Just ask any of their neighbors. You could ask the Finns, just make sure you don’t extol the virtues of Finlandization. If you do, you might want to wear a catcher’s mask.

The compound was built in a land-swap agreement between Poland and the Soviet Union in 1974.

Though Moscow received nine new properties in Warsaw, the Soviet side never reciprocated, and the buildings became empty in the 1990s.

In 2008, Warsaw ended the agreement and demanded compensation, charging that Moscow had occupied the grounds illegally. Russia has refused court orders to pay the lease or for the land or hand it over.

The building was empty but the locks have been changed and Ukraine will now receive the keys.

ImageRussia’s ambassador to Poland, Sergey Andreyev, accused the Polish authorities of seizing Russian diplomatic property.

“This morning, bailiffs came to our diplomatic property at 100 Sobieskiego Street in Warsaw and ordered the transfer of the building to the Polish State Treasury on behalf of Warsaw City Hall,” Andreyev was quoted as saying by Russia’s RIA news agency.

“Polish representatives cut off the locks to the gate and … have essentially occupied the facility,” Andreyev said.

Perhaps Poland could trade the ‘Nest of Spies’ for Crimea.

Published in Foreign Policy
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  1. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Have the Poles check to see if there are any of Hunter’s missing laptops in there.

    Hey, ya never know. 

    • #1
  2. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    So the Poles stole Russian property.  Typical.

    Historically, the Poles steal Russian property whenever they can.  You should study the history of Poland taking advantage of Russian famine to try to conquer Russian territory.  This was the Polish-Muscovite War of the early 1600s.

    The Poles were part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth at the time, and were allied with Ukrainian precursors (specifically, a group of Cossacks from around the Dneiper called the Zaporozhian Cossacks).

    Ditto for the Finns, actually, though at the time they were a part of Sweden.

    Back to the Poles, though.  They oppressed the Zaporozhian Cossacks — specifically, it was Catholic oppression of the Orthodox Cossacks — which led to a rebellion, in which the Cossacks prevailed and eventually swore allegiance to the Tsar in 1654.  This was called the Pereiaslav Agreement.

    Which is one of the reasons, by the way, that the Russians consider Ukraine to be part of Russia historically.  It was, at the request of the Ukrainians (then called Cossacks) who were suffering Polish-Catholic oppression.

    The Jews of the region were on the side of the Polish Catholic oppressors of the Orthodox Ukrainians.  Specifically, Polish noblemen used Jews to manage their Ukrainian estates and oppress the Ukrainians.

    Of course, the story today is that the Ukrainians were inexplicably anti-Semitic out of some irrational hatred for Jews.  Because, apparently, Jews can never do anything wrong.

    Eastern Europe has about a millennium of history of such back-and-forth conquests.  Of course, most Americans and other Westerners are ignorant of such history, and think that borders established during our brief period of hegemony are sacrosanct.  The Poles and other Baltic people, in particular, complain about Russian atrocity in the counterattack to the aggression of the Poles and Lithuanians.

    That’s what you get when you poke the Russian bear.

    And now you know . . . the rest of the story.

    • #2
  3. Doug Watt Member
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    So the Poles stole Russian property. Typical.

    Historically, the Poles steal Russian property whenever they can. You should study the history of Poland taking advantage of Russian famine to try to conquer Russian territory. This was the Polish-Muscovite War of the early 1600s.

    The Poles were part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth at the time, and were allied with Ukrainian precursors (specifically, a group of Cossacks from around the Dneiper called the Zaporozhian Cossacks).

    Ditto for the Finns, actually, though at the time they were a part of Sweden.

    Back to the Poles, though. They oppressed the Zaporozhian Cossacks — specifically, it was Catholic oppression of the Orthodox Cossacks — which led to a rebellion, in which the Cossacks prevailed and eventually swore allegiance to the Tsar in 1654. This was called the Pereiaslav Agreement.

    Which is one of the reasons, by the way, that the Russians consider Ukraine to be part of Russia historically. It was, at the request of the Ukrainians (then called Cossacks) who were suffering Polish-Catholic oppression.

    The Jews of the region were on the side of the Polish Catholic oppressors of the Orthodox Ukrainians. Specifically, Polish noblemen used Jews to manage their Ukrainian estates and oppress the Ukrainians.

    Of course, the story today is that the Ukrainians were inexplicably anti-Semitic out of some irrational hatred for Jews. Because, apparently, Jews can never do anything wrong.

    Eastern Europe has about a millennium of history of such back-and-forth conquests. Of course, most Americans and other Westerners are ignorant of such history, and think that borders established during our brief period of hegemony are sacrosanct. The Poles and other Baltic people, in particular, complain about Russian atrocity in the counterattack to the aggression of the Poles and Lithuanians.

    That’s what you get when you poke the Russian bear.

    And now you know . . . the rest of the story.

    Thanks for setting me straight Comrade. You have no idea what you are talking about. Your Hero of the Soviet Union medal is in the mail.

    • #3
  4. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    So the Poles stole Russian property. Typical.

    Historically, the Poles steal Russian property whenever they can. You should study the history of Poland taking advantage of Russian famine to try to conquer Russian territory. This was the Polish-Muscovite War of the early 1600s.

    The Poles were part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth at the time, and were allied with Ukrainian precursors (specifically, a group of Cossacks from around the Dneiper called the Zaporozhian Cossacks).

    Ditto for the Finns, actually, though at the time they were a part of Sweden.

    Back to the Poles, though. They oppressed the Zaporozhian Cossacks — specifically, it was Catholic oppression of the Orthodox Cossacks — which led to a rebellion, in which the Cossacks prevailed and eventually swore allegiance to the Tsar in 1654. This was called the Pereiaslav Agreement.

    Which is one of the reasons, by the way, that the Russians consider Ukraine to be part of Russia historically. It was, at the request of the Ukrainians (then called Cossacks) who were suffering Polish-Catholic oppression.

    The Jews of the region were on the side of the Polish Catholic oppressors of the Orthodox Ukrainians. Specifically, Polish noblemen used Jews to manage their Ukrainian estates and oppress the Ukrainians.

    Of course, the story today is that the Ukrainians were inexplicably anti-Semitic out of some irrational hatred for Jews. Because, apparently, Jews can never do anything wrong.

    Eastern Europe has about a millennium of history of such back-and-forth conquests. Of course, most Americans and other Westerners are ignorant of such history, and think that borders established during our brief period of hegemony are sacrosanct. The Poles and other Baltic people, in particular, complain about Russian atrocity in the counterattack to the aggression of the Poles and Lithuanians.

    That’s what you get when you poke the Russian bear.

    And now you know . . . the rest of the story.

    Interesting. 

    But not relevant. 

    • #4
  5. Doug Watt Member
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    So the Poles stole Russian property. Typical.

    Historically, the Poles steal Russian property whenever they can. You should study the history of Poland taking advantage of Russian famine to try to conquer Russian territory. This was the Polish-Muscovite War of the early 1600s.

    The Poles were part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth at the time, and were allied with Ukrainian precursors (specifically, a group of Cossacks from around the Dneiper called the Zaporozhian Cossacks).

    Ditto for the Finns, actually, though at the time they were a part of Sweden.

    Back to the Poles, though. They oppressed the Zaporozhian Cossacks — specifically, it was Catholic oppression of the Orthodox Cossacks — which led to a rebellion, in which the Cossacks prevailed and eventually swore allegiance to the Tsar in 1654. This was called the Pereiaslav Agreement.

    Which is one of the reasons, by the way, that the Russians consider Ukraine to be part of Russia historically. It was, at the request of the Ukrainians (then called Cossacks) who were suffering Polish-Catholic oppression.

    The Jews of the region were on the side of the Polish Catholic oppressors of the Orthodox Ukrainians. Specifically, Polish noblemen used Jews to manage their Ukrainian estates and oppress the Ukrainians.

    Of course, the story today is that the Ukrainians were inexplicably anti-Semitic out of some irrational hatred for Jews. Because, apparently, Jews can never do anything wrong.

    Eastern Europe has about a millennium of history of such back-and-forth conquests. Of course, most Americans and other Westerners are ignorant of such history, and think that borders established during our brief period of hegemony are sacrosanct. The Poles and other Baltic people, in particular, complain about Russian atrocity in the counterattack to the aggression of the Poles and Lithuanians.

    That’s what you get when you poke the Russian bear.

    And now you know . . . the rest of the story.

    Thanks for setting me straight Comrade. You have no idea what you are talking about. Your Hero of the Soviet Union medal is in the mail.

    By the way Jerry I’d prefer that you don’t comment on my posts in the future. I don’t appreciate your anti-Semitic, and anti-Catholic bigotry.

    • #5
  6. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Moderator Note:

    Disguised profanity is still profanity.

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    So the Poles stole Russian property. Typical.

    Historically, the Poles steal Russian property whenever they can. You should study the history of Poland taking advantage of Russian famine to try to conquer Russian territory. This was the Polish-Muscovite War of the early 1600s.

    The Poles were part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth at the time, and were allied with Ukrainian precursors (specifically, a group of Cossacks from around the Dneiper called the Zaporozhian Cossacks).

    Ditto for the Finns, actually, though at the time they were a part of Sweden.

    Back to the Poles, though. They oppressed the Zaporozhian Cossacks — specifically, it was Catholic oppression of the Orthodox Cossacks — which led to a rebellion, in which the Cossacks prevailed and eventually swore allegiance to the Tsar in 1654. This was called the Pereiaslav Agreement.

    Which is one of the reasons, by the way, that the Russians consider Ukraine to be part of Russia historically. It was, at the request of the Ukrainians (then called Cossacks) who were suffering Polish-Catholic oppression.

    The Jews of the region were on the side of the Polish Catholic oppressors of the Orthodox Ukrainians. Specifically, Polish noblemen used Jews to manage their Ukrainian estates and oppress the Ukrainians.

    Of course, the story today is that the Ukrainians were inexplicably anti-Semitic out of some irrational hatred for Jews. Because, apparently, Jews can never do anything wrong.

    Eastern Europe has about a millennium of history of such back-and-forth conquests. Of course, most Americans and other Westerners are ignorant of such history, and think that borders established during our brief period of hegemony are sacrosanct. The Poles and other Baltic people, in particular, complain about Russian atrocity in the counterattack to the aggression of the Poles and Lithuanians.

    That’s what you get when you poke the Russian bear.

    And now you know . . . the rest of the story.

    Thanks for setting me straight Comrade. You have no idea what you are talking about. Your Hero of the Soviet Union medal is in the mail.

    By the way Jerry I’d prefer that you don’t comment on my posts in the future. I don’t appreciate your anti-Semitic, and anti-Catholic bigotry.

    Well, too bad.

    The Catholics and the Jews oppressed the Ukrainians (Cossacks), who turned to the Russians for help.  This is part of the root of the centuries-old conflict in the area.  But you can only see things from your perspective.

    And [redacted by moderator, not Doug Watt], for suggesting that I’m a communist.

    • #6
  7. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Hmm, is another Arizona lawyer trying to get banned from the site?

    • #7
  8. Doug Watt Member
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Hmm, is another Arizona lawyer trying to get banned from the site?

    Just let it go. I’ve no intention of banning him, nor discussing it with any of the Moderators.

    • #8
  9. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Poles seize empty nest of spies. Sounds like the start (or punch line) of a joke.

    • #9
  10. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Poles seize empty nest of spies. Sounds like the start (or punch line) of a joke.

    But their EPA intervened because it was a breeding ground and so the spies were put back after being fed subsidized information. 

    • #10
  11. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    TBA (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Poles seize empty nest of spies. Sounds like the start (or punch line) of a joke.

    But their EPA intervened because it was a breeding ground and so the spies were put back after being fed subsidized information.

    And then grounded themselves after being towed out to sea?

    • #11
  12. E. Kent Golding Moderator
    E. Kent Golding
    @EKentGolding

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Hmm, is another Arizona lawyer trying to get banned from the site?

    Just let it go. I’ve no intention of banning him, nor discussing it with any of the Moderators.

    It was still a clever quip.

    • #12
  13. Steve Fast Member
    Steve Fast
    @SteveFast

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    So the Poles stole Russian property. Typical.

    Historically, the Poles steal Russian property whenever they can. You should study the history of Poland taking advantage of Russian famine to try to conquer Russian territory. This was the Polish-Muscovite War of the early 1600s.

    The Poles were part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth at the time, and were allied with Ukrainian precursors (specifically, a group of Cossacks from around the Dneiper called the Zaporozhian Cossacks).

    Ditto for the Finns, actually, though at the time they were a part of Sweden.

    Back to the Poles, though. They oppressed the Zaporozhian Cossacks — specifically, it was Catholic oppression of the Orthodox Cossacks — which led to a rebellion, in which the Cossacks prevailed and eventually swore allegiance to the Tsar in 1654. This was called the Pereiaslav Agreement.

    Which is one of the reasons, by the way, that the Russians consider Ukraine to be part of Russia historically. It was, at the request of the Ukrainians (then called Cossacks) who were suffering Polish-Catholic oppression.

    The Jews of the region were on the side of the Polish Catholic oppressors of the Orthodox Ukrainians. Specifically, Polish noblemen used Jews to manage their Ukrainian estates and oppress the Ukrainians.

    Of course, the story today is that the Ukrainians were inexplicably anti-Semitic out of some irrational hatred for Jews. Because, apparently, Jews can never do anything wrong.

    Eastern Europe has about a millennium of history of such back-and-forth conquests. Of course, most Americans and other Westerners are ignorant of such history, and think that borders established during our brief period of hegemony are sacrosanct. The Poles and other Baltic people, in particular, complain about Russian atrocity in the counterattack to the aggression of the Poles and Lithuanians.

    That’s what you get when you poke the Russian bear.

    And now you know . . . the rest of the story.

    The Poles oppress everyone. First the Russians, then the Nazis. If the Poles hadn’t abused the Nazis so badly, Germany wouldn’t have been forced to start World War II and tried to wipe Poland off the map.

    • #13
  14. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Steve Fast (View Comment):
    The Poles oppress everyone. First the Russians, then the Nazis. If the Poles hadn’t abused the Nazis so badly, Germany wouldn’t have been forced to start World War II and tried to wipe Poland off the map.

    I believe the Nazis did stage a Poles-abuse-Nazis event just before the invasion on September 1, 1939.   I don’t remember the details, because there’s always some pretext and the details get boring.  

    • #14
  15. jzdro Member
    jzdro
    @jzdro

    Thanks, @DougWatt; dw.com looks like a pretty good source for details.

    The First News, generally a site for upbeat feature articles to tempt tourists, has a recent piece on the Polish counterespionage and countersabotage efforts. Russians, Bialorussians, and also Polish citizens have been arrested for surveillance of aid trains headed to Ukraine. Their mission was to transmit real-time information on the movement of such transports, and to affix GPS units to them, to aid the Russians in intercepting or attacking them.

    There’s an airport, the Rzeszow-Jasionka, near the border with Ukraine where they have also been conducting surveillance on aid transport.

     

    • #15
  16. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    The Polish Government evicted the Russians from a property stolen by the Polish Communists and “donated” to the Russian Communists.

    All the evil done to the Russians in centuries past sort of pales when compared to the evil  done by the Russians in the century just past. That invasion by the Germans was bad, but as the Russians had already occupied 40% of Poland at that point, it sort of underlines Stalin’s foolishness in trusting Adolph Hitler.

    • #16
  17. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    It sounds like it was an abandoned building, in which case, the city of Warsaw, after so many years, may have had a right to seize it if there were taxes or public safety issues involved. But it’s hard to tell from the story cited. It sounds as though they put it to good use, housing refugees.

    Abandoned properties are a big problem in every city and town in the world.

    • #17
  18. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    MarciN (View Comment):

    It sounds like it was an abandoned building, in which case, the city Warsaw, after so many years, may have had a right to seize it if there were taxes or public safety issues involved. But it’s hard to tell from the story cited. It sounds as though they put it to good use, housing refugees.

    Abandoned properties are a big problem in every city and town in the world.

    According to one link that somebody posted here, Russians didn’t keep up their end of the deal by which they were given the use of the land. 

    • #18
  19. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    It sounds like it was an abandoned building, in which case, the city Warsaw, after so many years, may have had a right to seize it if there were taxes or public safety issues involved. But it’s hard to tell from the story cited. It sounds as though they put it to good use, housing refugees.

    Abandoned properties are a big problem in every city and town in the world.

    According to one link that somebody posted here, Russians didn’t keep up their end of the deal by which they were given the use of the land. 

    In a dispute like that, I tend not to take at face value the claims of the government that abuses its power like Biden does to repress political opposition.  

    • #19
  20. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    It sounds like it was an abandoned building, in which case, the city Warsaw, after so many years, may have had a right to seize it if there were taxes or public safety issues involved. But it’s hard to tell from the story cited. It sounds as though they put it to good use, housing refugees.

    Abandoned properties are a big problem in every city and town in the world.

    According to one link that somebody posted here, Russians didn’t keep up their end of the deal by which they were given the use of the land.

    In a dispute like that, I tend not to take at face value the claims of the government that abuses its power like Biden does to repress political opposition.

    The story is confusing. Doug’s headline refers to a “nest of spies,” which seems to imply that there is a group of human beings inside the compound. But the first line of the story says the compound was “unoccupied.” And I could not follow the “trade” arrangement and its repercussions vis-a-vis this compound.  

    Both the original story and the OP are hard to sort out as to what actually happened. Sigh. But that’s probably because I am not as familiar with either Russia or Poland as Doug. He’s seeing something that I am missing. :) :) 

    If it is an unoccupied building whose ownership is in dispute, it doesn’t sound like the Warsaw government did anything too dramatic. Yet the Warsaw mayor made a big deal out of taking over the compound and the incident made the news, so I must be missing something. :) :) 

    • #20
  21. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    MarciN (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    It sounds like it was an abandoned building, in which case, the city Warsaw, after so many years, may have had a right to seize it if there were taxes or public safety issues involved. But it’s hard to tell from the story cited. It sounds as though they put it to good use, housing refugees.

    Abandoned properties are a big problem in every city and town in the world.

    According to one link that somebody posted here, Russians didn’t keep up their end of the deal by which they were given the use of the land.

    In a dispute like that, I tend not to take at face value the claims of the government that abuses its power like Biden does to repress political opposition.

    The story is confusing. Doug’s headline refers to a “nest of spies,” which seems to imply that there is a group of human beings inside the compound. But the first line of the story says the compound was “unoccupied.” And I could not follow the “trade” arrangement and its repercussions vis-a-vis this compound.

    Both the original story and the OP are hard to sort out as to what actually happened. Sigh. But that’s probably because I am not as familiar with either Russia or Poland as Doug. He’s seeing something that I am missing. :) :)

    If it is an unoccupied building whose ownership is in dispute, it doesn’t sound like the Warsaw government did anything too dramatic. Yet the Warsaw mayor made a big deal out of taking over the compound and the incident made the news, so I must be missing something. :) :)

    The nests are often on the roofs, just under the eaves, but not actually inside the building. Spies are very shy. 

    • #21
  22. Chris Hutchinson Coolidge
    Chris Hutchinson
    @chrishutch13

    MarciN (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    It sounds like it was an abandoned building, in which case, the city Warsaw, after so many years, may have had a right to seize it if there were taxes or public safety issues involved. But it’s hard to tell from the story cited. It sounds as though they put it to good use, housing refugees.

    Abandoned properties are a big problem in every city and town in the world.

    According to one link that somebody posted here, Russians didn’t keep up their end of the deal by which they were given the use of the land.

    In a dispute like that, I tend not to take at face value the claims of the government that abuses its power like Biden does to repress political opposition.

    The story is confusing. Doug’s headline refers to a “nest of spies,” which seems to imply that there is a group of human beings inside the compound. But the first line of the story says the compound was “unoccupied.” And I could not follow the “trade” arrangement and its repercussions vis-a-vis this compound.

    Both the original story and the OP are hard to sort out as to what actually happened. Sigh. But that’s probably because I am not as familiar with either Russia or Poland as Doug. He’s seeing something that I am missing. :) :)

    If it is an unoccupied building whose ownership is in dispute, it doesn’t sound like the Warsaw government did anything too dramatic. Yet the Warsaw mayor made a big deal out of taking over the compound and the incident made the news, so I must be missing something. :) :)

    It wasn’t too dramatic. All part of legal issues that’s been going on for years. Also, I am not sure exactly which “government” you were referring to Reticulator when you mentioned not taking claims at face value but let me clarify. This was a city issue and the Warsaw Mayor is not from THE government (i.e. PiS) here in Poland. He is from PO, which is the political opposition. 

     

    • #22
  23. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
    DaveSchmidt
    @DaveSchmidt

    Steve Fast (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    So the Poles stole Russian property. Typical.

    Historically, the Poles steal Russian property whenever they can. You should study the history of Poland taking advantage of Russian famine to try to conquer Russian territory. This was the Polish-Muscovite War of the early 1600s.

    The Poles were part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth at the time, and were allied with Ukrainian precursors (specifically, a group of Cossacks from around the Dneiper called the Zaporozhian Cossacks).

    Ditto for the Finns, actually, though at the time they were a part of Sweden.

    Back to the Poles, though. They oppressed the Zaporozhian Cossacks — specifically, it was Catholic oppression of the Orthodox Cossacks — which led to a rebellion, in which the Cossacks prevailed and eventually swore allegiance to the Tsar in 1654. This was called the Pereiaslav Agreement.

    Which is one of the reasons, by the way, that the Russians consider Ukraine to be part of Russia historically. It was, at the request of the Ukrainians (then called Cossacks) who were suffering Polish-Catholic oppression.

    The Jews of the region were on the side of the Polish Catholic oppressors of the Orthodox Ukrainians. Specifically, Polish noblemen used Jews to manage their Ukrainian estates and oppress the Ukrainians.

    Of course, the story today is that the Ukrainians were inexplicably anti-Semitic out of some irrational hatred for Jews. Because, apparently, Jews can never do anything wrong.

    Eastern Europe has about a millennium of history of such back-and-forth conquests. Of course, most Americans and other Westerners are ignorant of such history, and think that borders established during our brief period of hegemony are sacrosanct. The Poles and other Baltic people, in particular, complain about Russian atrocity in the counterattack to the aggression of the Poles and Lithuanians.

    That’s what you get when you poke the Russian bear.

    And now you know . . . the rest of the story.

    The Poles oppress everyone. First the Russians, then the Nazis. If the Poles hadn’t abused the Nazis so badly, Germany wouldn’t have been forced to start World War II and tried to wipe Poland off the map.

    Germany and the Soviets.  

    • #23
  24. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
    DaveSchmidt
    @DaveSchmidt

    MarciN (View Comment):

    It sounds like it was an abandoned building, in which case, the city of Warsaw, after so many years, may have had a right to seize it if there were taxes or public safety issues involved. But it’s hard to tell from the story cited. It sounds as though they put it to good use, housing refugees.

    Abandoned properties are a big problem in every city and town in the world.

    Especially in Portland and Seattle. 

    • #24
  25. She Member
    She
    @She

    Rosyjskie Diabły

     

    • #25
  26. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Chris Hutchinson (View Comment):
    It wasn’t too dramatic. All part of legal issues that’s been going on for years. Also, I am not sure exactly which “government” you were referring to Reticulator when you mentioned not taking claims at face value but let me clarify. This was a city issue and the Warsaw Mayor is not from THE government (i.e. PiS) here in Poland. He is from PO, which is the political opposition. 

    That is good to know. 

    The Biden-like government I was referring to was the one that sends the state security police to conduct raids on the political opposition for various bogus reasons. 

    • #26
  27. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    She (View Comment):

    Rosyjskie Diabły

    Oh come on She, some of us say that about you guys as well and it isn’t fair when we do it either.

    • #27
  28. She Member
    She
    @She

    Zafar (View Comment):

    She (View Comment):

    Rosyjskie Diabły

    Oh come on She, some of us say that about you guys as well and it isn’t fair when we do it either.

    Dear Zafar,

    I love you very much.  And I am glad you’re here.  But:

    I think you need to 1) actually read my OP, and then 2) acknowledge that it was about the PERSONAL EXPERIENCE of  those whom I have known when it has come to dealing with the Russians over the centuries.  Every word, in my relating of it, is true. (If you need a third-party explanation of why Russia, as it stands today, is such a basket-case of a nation, see Peter Hopkirk’s The Great Game.  What a wonderful book.)

    I give you mad props for not going immediately (as some here have already done) to the matter of “I don’t really GAF about your teenage friend and her younger sister who were raped (and perhaps even worse) by the Russian soldiers during the Hungarian occupation.  Because–no matter how innocent they were–they effing deserved it.”  Bless you for not going there.

    Nevertheless, it’s depressing to see you align yourself with those on this site who seem determined to diminish the anecdotal evidence of those of us who are determined to bring it before you.

    I hope you’ll see things differently over time.

     

     

    • #28
  29. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    She (View Comment):
    Rosyjskie Diabły

    She (View Comment):

    Oh come on She, some of us say that about you guys as well and it isn’t fair when we do it either.

    Dear Zafar,

    I love you very much.  And I am glad you’re here.  But:

    I think you need to 1) actually read my OP

    I have to read something before commenting on it?!!  Oh…..fine.

    and then 2) acknowledge that it was about the PERSONAL EXPERIENCE of  those whom I have known when it has come to dealing with the Russians over the centuries.  Every word, in my relating of it, is true. (If you need a third-party explanation of why Russia, as it stands today, is such a basket-case of a nation, see Peter Hopkirk’s The Great Game.  What a wonderful book.)

    I give you mad props for not going immediately (as some here have already done) to the matter of “I don’t really GAF about your teenage friend and her younger sister who were raped (and perhaps even worse) by the Russian soldiers during the Hungarian occupation.

    That wasn’t my point She.

    The Brits did all that and worse in India, and my point is that it is still not fair to define all British people by their worst actions in India.

    Tempting.  Human, even.  But fair? Not even a little.

     

     

    • #29
  30. Chris Hutchinson Coolidge
    Chris Hutchinson
    @chrishutch13

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Chris Hutchinson (View Comment):
    It wasn’t too dramatic. All part of legal issues that’s been going on for years. Also, I am not sure exactly which “government” you were referring to Reticulator when you mentioned not taking claims at face value but let me clarify. This was a city issue and the Warsaw Mayor is not from THE government (i.e. PiS) here in Poland. He is from PO, which is the political opposition.

    That is good to know.

    The Biden-like government I was referring to was the one that sends the state security police to conduct raids on the political opposition for various bogus reasons.

    Yes, that’s what I thought you meant. The current government (PiS) is far from perfect but they’ve been doing a fine job. The way the media portrayed what you speak of and many issues here the past eight years is disgraceful. Not only media, Hollywood too. I’ve seen more than a few TV shows make stupid comments about Poland being compared to countries like Turkey, Venezuela and the Philippines (e.g. Homeland). Democracy is just fine here. But like I said, the Warsaw Mayor is not even from that party; he’s from the supposedly oppressed party. Truth is, he took what was a small routine issue and made a big PR stunt of it because he’s jealous the government has been doing such an amazing job supporting Ukraine and Ukrainians in the country, half of which isn’t even reported in the media. Trust me, it’s the Warsaw Mayor who comes from the Biden-like party.

    • #30
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