My Spiritual Journey, Part 1

 

(In which Ricochet members wonder what on earth made this man join this community over five years ago.)

I was raised as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

There were two solid benefits: One, I was raised without any political or social programming, detached from worldly affairs, making me more able later to assess critically what I learned from “authoritative” sources.

This is why the Kingdom Halls of Jehovah’s Witnesses seem to have no windows. They detach themselves from this world, awaiting the next after Armageddon.

Later, living in Sacramento when Rush Limbaugh first went on the air before going national, I could hear him as he was: smart, funny, engaging, genuine, and persuasive. We knew he would be big once he informed his audience he was going national.

Two, I was raised with The Truth, which turned into something they did not want.

I recall at the age of 15 asking the elders in the church questions like, “So Cain and Able married their sisters, right?” and “What does Paul mean in 2 Corinthians 12:1-5 when he talks about a man caught up to the third heaven, whether in the body or out of the body?”

Wait, there are at least three heavens? Why? What makes them different? And out of the body? What did that mean?

Such questions did not go over well. I was expected to trust in the authority of my betters and the text itself. As they interpreted it.

I thus became suspicious of texts and authorities, and began wondering, How does one know the truth? There are so many religions saying they have it. How does one determine which is true?

I was a science and math guy. And I loved classic science fiction, like Heinlein, Asimov, Clarke, Bradbury, Ellison, Niven. I had respect for the scientific method and empirical approaches to truth, or at least the best case for a truth.

In my teens, I started leaning towards agnosticism, even though I liked Jesus; however, I was curious that he was portrayed as having little or no sense of humor. But I was aware by then that, even though I was certain of the historical reality of Jesus, I was not that sure of the authorities and interpreters of his life and words.

I asked my mother once why miracles only happened in the Bible. She had no answer. That’s just the way it is, she said.

I prayed and asked for guidance, and some kind of inner connection with Spirit and Jesus. But nothing happened.

I wanted a spiritual experience. I wanted my spiritual foundation to be built, not on external authorities, priests or ministers, not on a text, whoever the translating authority, but on direct personal experiences.

I expanded my reading to other teachings, other religions, both Western and Eastern: Christian Catholicism and Protestantism, Islamic and Sufiism, Hinduism and Buddhism. I read their texts and translations. I asked for some kind of spiritual experience with each.

Although none gave me what I sought, I did get a growing sense that there was some truth in each, at least to the extent where Divine Love is the focus.

I also continued to be the target of the progressive education in the 1970s. As a sophomore in high school. I was put into Honors History (no political history, but we did learn about the Bantus of South Africa) and Honors English (where we learned no grammar, but were encouraged to be “Creative” and do our own thing).

In a college Spanish class I first learned about prepositions, which somehow had been skipped over throughout my Honors Student years. I was furious at my deprived education.

Almost every student in our Honors English class smoked pot, used mescaline, and took Black Beauties (amphetamines). I was the naïve one, the “good” boy, so I tentatively smoked pot for the first time.

By the time I was 18, I was ready to experiment with psychedelics. Still reading and searching.

At 19, I had a couple of spiritual experiences, both drug-related. Of course, I was aware that drugs corrupt perceptions and judgment. But the experiences triggered a kind of Call of Soul to return to God, if that makes any sense.

I was the odd guy with my “friends” (drug users don’t really have friends) who would take LSD and say to them, “This has something to do with God.” And they would respond, “Shut up Mark and watch the music come out of the speakers.”

I began reading about those who had had similar drug experiences and like me began a search for God and Truth.

I thought about finding some kind of spiritual guide. But the notion of going to India and finding a guru did not sit well with me. I did not want to withdraw from the world and live in an ashram. I wanted spiritual experiences. And I wanted them in the real world.

After reading Paramahansa Yogananda’s Autobiography of a Yogi, I found myself standing outside the Ananda Self-Realization Fellowship one day, but some inner nudge prevented me from going in.

All I knew was this: My spiritual foundation could not be based on texts or on external authorities, despite the fact that I believed such texts could be inspired by God. In fact, I began to see in all my reading and study that Spirit worked through many sources. But none fit me.

Again, my spiritual foundation had to built on my direct spiritual experiences. For example, by this time I was beginning to see the possibility that past lives were real, but I would not consider going to some past-life reader as an authority, or simply believe based on stories in a book or someone else’s memory. I had to have my own direct experience with past lives, and where possible, externally verifiable. I had some empirical sense, even if the evidence and conclusions could not be proved to anyone else.

I reached a low point one night when I was 20 years old. Reading felt like a waste of time.

I went outside, looked up at the stars and said out loud, “I know you are real. I know Truth exists. I’m ready for it. Give it to me.”

Nothing happened. No thunder, no lightning, no voice. I returned to my home feeling dejected.

A day or two later, I found a brochure on the hallway floor at my community college. It had a bunch of weird words, and I thought, “Here’s another one that has the answer.”

I was hitchhiking home (mid-’70s, remember), and I happened to be picked up by a young man who was a member of that particular religion. He showed me some materials and said that there would be a talk about it at the Sacramento Public Library this coming Saturday.

I decided to go, and I listened to the woman representing that religion. Her words were intriguing, especially when she talked about certain spiritual exercises one could try at home to connect with the Holy Spirit. (Something like the spiritual exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola, which did nothing for me.)

But what really got me was the light in her eyes. She had something, something I wish I had. I went ahead and bought a couple cheap paperback books, picked up a membership brochure, and took them home.

The first book fed my mind, and connected some of the same ideas I was having. That I was a Soul with a body, not a body with a Soul. The possibility of learning directly, inwardly, through dreams. Having direct experiences with past lives.

But it was the second book, where the writer spoke directly to the reader, that opened  something, and by the end, for the first time, I felt real possibility.

I practiced a simple, recommended spiritual exercise, and felt a spark. Of what I did not yet know. But it was enough for me to send for a trial membership. One that required two years of introductory study in order to acquire personal spiritual experiences that would prove to me that miracles were real, and they could happen in my daily life. If, that is, I was willing to take full accountability for my words, thoughts, and actions.

All things happen for a reason. Shortly after making that initial commitment, but before the initial materials arrived, I was arrested for a serious drug charge and placed in the Sacramento County Jail.

Over the next few weeks, I had a series of amazing spiritual miracles that transformed me.

___________

If you want to read more, Like this post and I will continue.

There is a reason I am a longtime Ricochet member. I have more in common with conservatives and libertarians, as well as very smart, devoted Christians and Jews. In fact, the nature of my spiritual beliefs has much in common with those who have experienced living, miraculous experiences with the Holy Spirit.

So please bear with me, no matter how wacky this seems to get. Consider, at minimum, it will be very entertaining as your assumptions about me get undermined–or confirmed.

Published in Religion & Philosophy
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There are 44 comments.

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  1. Mark Alexander Inactive
    Mark Alexander
    @MarkAlexander

    In case you are interested, here is my Catholic library.

    • #1
  2. Juliana Member
    Juliana
    @Juliana

    Miracles are all around us, all we have to be is open to them. It is a miracle that you, as a unique individual, even exist. Do the math. What are the chances?

    • #2
  3. Juliana Member
    Juliana
    @Juliana

    I look forward to your continuing saga.

    • #3
  4. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Catholic as in Roman? Or Catholic as in universal? 😆

    • #4
  5. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    I practiced Zen Buddhism for 20 years, and was a regular meditator. Although Zen does not formally include G-d, I found over the years that I felt closer to G-d by meditating. I never had any extraordinary spiritual experiences, although I have to admit that for a long time I wanted at least one. But gradually, returning to Judaism, I have made a sweet connection with G-d. Although fireworks don’t go off, it is profoundly satisfying and comforting.

    I look forward to reading more of your story, Mark!

    Edit: I also believe that miracles happen all the time–we just don’t realize they are miracles. For me, they often show up as “synchronicity”–surprising or unanticipated outcomes or events. But that’s me.

    • #5
  6. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    I practiced Zen Buddhism for 20 years, and was a regular meditator. Although Zen does not formally include G-d, I found over the years that I felt closer to G-d by meditating. I never had any extraordinary spiritual experiences, although I have to admit that for a long time I wanted at least one. But gradually, returning to Judaism, I have made a sweet connection with G-d. Although fireworks don’t go off, it is profoundly satisfying and comforting.

    I look forward to reading more of your story, Mark!

    He says, “Be still, and know that I am God;
    I will be exalted among the nations,
    I will be exalted in the earth.”

    — Psalm 46:10 (or 11, I think, if you’re Jewish).

    • #6
  7. Some Call Me ...Tim Coolidge
    Some Call Me ...Tim
    @SomeCallMeTim

    Pray, please continue. 

    • #7
  8. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    I’m interested, please continue.

    • #8
  9. Matt Bartle Member
    Matt Bartle
    @MattBartle

    Mark Alexander: It had a bunch of weird words

    Oh, I hope they weren’t “thetan” and “Xenu”!

    • #9
  10. navyjag Coolidge
    navyjag
    @navyjag

    Now we know why the memes are so good.  The Spirit moves you. And sounds like you wound up in the right place. Although St. A might disagree. 

    • #10
  11. Mark Alexander Inactive
    Mark Alexander
    @MarkAlexander

    Matt Bartle (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander: It had a bunch of weird words

    Oh, I hope they weren’t “thetan” and “Xenu”!

    All hail Tom Cruise! 🤩

    • #11
  12. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    In case you are interested, here is my Catholic library.

     I have the whole set of great books. I see three in your pic 

    • #12
  13. Mark Alexander Inactive
    Mark Alexander
    @MarkAlexander

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    In case you are interested, here is my Catholic library.

    I have the whole set of great books. I see three in your pic

    Got them all. Read maybe half.

    • #13
  14. Michael Henry Member
    Michael Henry
    @MichaelHenry

    Very cool, MA. Keep it going. 

    • #14
  15. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Mark Alexander:

    I began reading about those who had had similar drug experiences and like me began a search for God and Truth.

    William James tried drugs to see if this sort of thing would work.

    For my part, I stick to tea.

    All I knew was this: My spiritual foundation could not be based on texts or on external authorities, despite the fact that I believed such texts could be inspired by God. In fact, I began to see in all my reading and study that Spirit worked through many sources. But none fit me.

    Again, my spiritual foundation had to built on my direct spiritual experiences. For example, by this time I was beginning to see the possibility that past lives were real, but I would not consider going to some past-life reader as an authority, or simply believe based on stories in a book or someone else’s memory. I had to have my own direct experience with past lives, and where possible, externally verifiable. I had some empirical sense, even if the evidence and conclusions could not be proved to anyone else.

    I don’t understand your epistemology here (or the epistemology you had back then). What’s wrong with a spiritual foundation in an external authority or a text?  Is it that you want to avoid blind trust?

    But why not trust with both eyes open in a text or an external authority that you have reason to believe is trustworthy?  Is the problem that the authority wouldn’t be a foundation at that point?  If so, then what you need is a theory called foundherentism.  You could look up Susan Haack and John Zeis, or you could just ask me for more.  I know this stuff.

    Or is the idea that, whatever your religious beliefs are, you ought to be able to test them to some extent for yourself?  That sounds ok to me too.  But that can be done while trusting in an external authority or a text.

    • #15
  16. Mark Alexander Inactive
    Mark Alexander
    @MarkAlexander

    Or is the idea that, whatever your religious beliefs are, you ought to be able to test them to some extent for yourself? That sounds ok to me too. But that can be done while trusting in an external authority or a text.

    Closer to this.  Since authorities and texts are many, where do I start?

    Direct spiritul experiences may point to texts and authorities. But my start is experience.

    I have no quarrel with how others approach their foundation. I have no insight into telling anyone else what is right for them. I cannot proselytize for the simple reason that I don’t have a clue about anyone else’s relationship with Spirit, even others within my religion.

    I have my hands full with my own spiritual steps. At best, I can say what has worked for me, when asked for advice. Generally, I offer none unless asked.

    I am no one’s authority.

    • #16
  17. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Or is the idea that, whatever your religious beliefs are, you ought to be able to test them to some extent for yourself? That sounds ok to me too. But that can be done while trusting in an external authority or a text.

    Closer to this. Since authorities and texts are many, where do I start?

    With the one that seems likeliest, for whatever reason(s).  (E.g., its ideas just seem to make the most sense, or it appears to have the best external evidence, or it’s converted the most people–since the one that is the most correct will likely be very successful.)

    Direct spiritul experiences may point to texts and authorities. But my start is experience.

    Same.

    Note that experience is not limited to my personal experience.

    And is there something wrong with trusting some text or external authority while also testing things for myself where I can?

    • #17
  18. Mark Alexander Inactive
    Mark Alexander
    @MarkAlexander

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Or is the idea that, whatever your religious beliefs are, you ought to be able to test them to some extent for yourself? That sounds ok to me too. But that can be done while trusting in an external authority or a text.

    Closer to this. Since authorities and texts are many, where do I start?

    With the one that seems likeliest, for whatever reason(s). (E.g., its ideas just seem to make the most sense, or it appears to have the best external evidence, or it’s converted the most people–since the one that is the most correct will likely be very successful.)

    Direct spiritul experiences may point to texts and authorities. But my start is experience.

    Same.

    Note that experience is not limited to my personal experience.

    And is there something wrong with trusting some text or external authority while also testing things for myself where I can?

    I make no claim about whether something is right or wrong for someone else. I can only point to what works for me. Not qualified, remember?

    • #18
  19. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Or is the idea that, whatever your religious beliefs are, you ought to be able to test them to some extent for yourself? That sounds ok to me too. But that can be done while trusting in an external authority or a text.

    Closer to this. Since authorities and texts are many, where do I start?

    With the one that seems likeliest, for whatever reason(s). (E.g., its ideas just seem to make the most sense, or it appears to have the best external evidence, or it’s converted the most people–since the one that is the most correct will likely be very successful.)

    Direct spiritul experiences may point to texts and authorities. But my start is experience.

    Same.

    Note that experience is not limited to my personal experience.

    And is there something wrong with trusting some text or external authority while also testing things for myself where I can?

    I make no claim about whether something is right or wrong for someone else. I can only point to what works for me. Not qualified, remember?

    I don’t understand. Is this meant as an answer to my question?

    • #19
  20. Mark Alexander Inactive
    Mark Alexander
    @MarkAlexander

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Or is the idea that, whatever your religious beliefs are, you ought to be able to test them to some extent for yourself? That sounds ok to me too. But that can be done while trusting in an external authority or a text.

    Closer to this. Since authorities and texts are many, where do I start?

    With the one that seems likeliest, for whatever reason(s). (E.g., its ideas just seem to make the most sense, or it appears to have the best external evidence, or it’s converted the most people–since the one that is the most correct will likely be very successful.)

    Direct spiritul experiences may point to texts and authorities. But my start is experience.

    Same.

    Note that experience is not limited to my personal experience.

    And is there something wrong with trusting some text or external authority while also testing things for myself where I can?

    I make no claim about whether something is right or wrong for someone else. I can only point to what works for me. Not qualified, remember?

    I don’t understand. Is this meant as an answer to my question?

    Yes. There is nothing wrong with you trusting some text or external authority while also testing things for yourself where you can.

    • #20
  21. navyjag Coolidge
    navyjag
    @navyjag

    Baptist vs. Catholic convert oral death match. Loving it. 

    • #21
  22. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Or is the idea that, whatever your religious beliefs are, you ought to be able to test them to some extent for yourself? That sounds ok to me too. But that can be done while trusting in an external authority or a text.

    Closer to this. Since authorities and texts are many, where do I start?

    With the one that seems likeliest, for whatever reason(s). (E.g., its ideas just seem to make the most sense, or it appears to have the best external evidence, or it’s converted the most people–since the one that is the most correct will likely be very successful.)

    Direct spiritul experiences may point to texts and authorities. But my start is experience.

    Same.

    Note that experience is not limited to my personal experience.

    And is there something wrong with trusting some text or external authority while also testing things for myself where I can?

    I make no claim about whether something is right or wrong for someone else. I can only point to what works for me. Not qualified, remember?

    I don’t understand. Is this meant as an answer to my question?

    Yes. There is nothing wrong with you trusting some text or external authority while also testing things for yourself where you can.

    So that was meant as an answer?  I can’t even begin to understand how.

    But you can answer the question, and the answer is no, there’s nothing wrong with that.  Ok, that I understand.  Good.

    • #22
  23. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    navyjag (View Comment):

    Baptist vs. Catholic convert oral death match. Loving it.

    Mark A. is Catholic?

    Good.

    • #23
  24. Mark Alexander Inactive
    Mark Alexander
    @MarkAlexander

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Or is the idea that, whatever your religious beliefs are, you ought to be able to test them to some extent for yourself? That sounds ok to me too. But that can be done while trusting in an external authority or a text.

    Closer to this. Since authorities and texts are many, where do I start?

    With the one that seems likeliest, for whatever reason(s). (E.g., its ideas just seem to make the most sense, or it appears to have the best external evidence, or it’s converted the most people–since the one that is the most correct will likely be very successful.)

    Direct spiritul experiences may point to texts and authorities. But my start is experience.

    Same.

    Note that experience is not limited to my personal experience.

    And is there something wrong with trusting some text or external authority while also testing things for myself where I can?

    I make no claim about whether something is right or wrong for someone else. I can only point to what works for me. Not qualified, remember?

    I don’t understand. Is this meant as an answer to my question?

    Yes. There is nothing wrong with you trusting some text or external authority while also testing things for yourself where you can.

    So that was meant as an answer? I can’t even begin to understand how.

    But you can answer the question, and the answer is no, there’s nothing wrong with that. Ok, that I understand. Good.

    Nothing I say about my experiences or beliefs should ever be taken as a commentary on anyone else’s experiences or beliefs. Make sense?

    • #24
  25. navyjag Coolidge
    navyjag
    @navyjag

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    navyjag (View Comment):

    Baptist vs. Catholic c1

    Sorry. Just off the phone with Mark A. Got that wrong. Just another lawyer mistake. No. 41,734. 

    • #25
  26. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Or is the idea that, whatever your religious beliefs are, you ought to be able to test them to some extent for yourself? That sounds ok to me too. But that can be done while trusting in an external authority or a text.

    Closer to this. Since authorities and texts are many, where do I start?

    With the one that seems likeliest, for whatever reason(s). (E.g., its ideas just seem to make the most sense, or it appears to have the best external evidence, or it’s converted the most people–since the one that is the most correct will likely be very successful.)

    Direct spiritul experiences may point to texts and authorities. But my start is experience.

    Same.

    Note that experience is not limited to my personal experience.

    And is there something wrong with trusting some text or external authority while also testing things for myself where I can?

    I make no claim about whether something is right or wrong for someone else. I can only point to what works for me. Not qualified, remember?

    I don’t understand. Is this meant as an answer to my question?

    Yes. There is nothing wrong with you trusting some text or external authority while also testing things for yourself where you can.

    So that was meant as an answer? I can’t even begin to understand how.

    But you can answer the question, and the answer is no, there’s nothing wrong with that. Ok, that I understand. Good.

    Nothing I say about my experiences or beliefs should ever be taken as a commentary on anyone else’s experiences or beliefs. Make sense?

    Yes, by itself.

    But not at all in this context and as an answer to my question.  I could only think of one way that could possibly be meant as an answer to my (underlined above) question, and that way (itself a sheer speculation on my part) doesn’t seem compatible with the answer you did give (bolded above).

    • #26
  27. Mark Alexander Inactive
    Mark Alexander
    @MarkAlexander

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Or is the idea that, whatever your religious beliefs are, you ought to be able to test them to some extent for yourself? That sounds ok to me too. But that can be done while trusting in an external authority or a text.

    Closer to this. Since authorities and texts are many, where do I start?

    With the one that seems likeliest, for whatever reason(s). (E.g., its ideas just seem to make the most sense, or it appears to have the best external evidence, or it’s converted the most people–since the one that is the most correct will likely be very successful.)

    Direct spiritul experiences may point to texts and authorities. But my start is experience.

    Same.

    Note that experience is not limited to my personal experience.

    And is there something wrong with trusting some text or external authority while also testing things for myself where I can?

    I make no claim about whether something is right or wrong for someone else. I can only point to what works for me. Not qualified, remember?

    I don’t understand. Is this meant as an answer to my question?

    Yes. There is nothing wrong with you trusting some text or external authority while also testing things for yourself where you can.

    So that was meant as an answer? I can’t even begin to understand how.

    But you can answer the question, and the answer is no, there’s nothing wrong with that. Ok, that I understand. Good.

    Nothing I say about my experiences or beliefs should ever be taken as a commentary on anyone else’s experiences or beliefs. Make sense?

    Yes, by itself.

    But not at all in this context and as an answer to my question. I could only think of one way that could possibly be meant as an answer to my (underlined above) question, and that way (itself a sheer speculation on my part) doesn’t seem compatible with the answer you did give (bolded above).

    Looks like I’m not a good fit for metaphysical exchanges. 

    • #27
  28. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Or is the idea that, whatever your religious beliefs are, you ought to be able to test them to some extent for yourself? That sounds ok to me too. But that can be done while trusting in an external authority or a text.

    Closer to this. Since authorities and texts are many, where do I start?

    With the one that seems likeliest, for whatever reason(s). (E.g., its ideas just seem to make the most sense, or it appears to have the best external evidence, or it’s converted the most people–since the one that is the most correct will likely be very successful.)

    Direct spiritul experiences may point to texts and authorities. But my start is experience.

    Same.

    Note that experience is not limited to my personal experience.

    And is there something wrong with trusting some text or external authority while also testing things for myself where I can?

    I make no claim about whether something is right or wrong for someone else. I can only point to what works for me. Not qualified, remember?

    I don’t understand. Is this meant as an answer to my question?

    Yes. There is nothing wrong with you trusting some text or external authority while also testing things for yourself where you can.

    So that was meant as an answer? I can’t even begin to understand how.

    But you can answer the question, and the answer is no, there’s nothing wrong with that. Ok, that I understand. Good.

    Nothing I say about my experiences or beliefs should ever be taken as a commentary on anyone else’s experiences or beliefs. Make sense?

    Yes, by itself.

    But not at all in this context and as an answer to my question. I could only think of one way that could possibly be meant as an answer to my (underlined above) question, and that way (itself a sheer speculation on my part) doesn’t seem compatible with the answer you did give (bolded above).

    Looks like I’m not a good fit for metaphysical exchanges.

    We never got anywhere near metaphysics here.

    • #28
  29. Mark Alexander Inactive
    Mark Alexander
    @MarkAlexander

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    Or is the idea that, whatever your religious beliefs are, you ought to be able to test them to some extent for yourself? That sounds ok to me too. But that can be done while trusting in an external authority or a text.

    Closer to this. Since authorities and texts are many, where do I start?

    With the one that seems likeliest, for whatever reason(s). (E.g., its ideas just seem to make the most sense, or it appears to have the best external evidence, or it’s converted the most people–since the one that is the most correct will likely be very successful.)

    Direct spiritul experiences may point to texts and authorities. But my start is experience.

    Same.

    Note that experience is not limited to my personal experience.

    And is there something wrong with trusting some text or external authority while also testing things for myself where I can?

    I make no claim about whether something is right or wrong for someone else. I can only point to what works for me. Not qualified, remember?

    I don’t understand. Is this meant as an answer to my question?

    Yes. There is nothing wrong with you trusting some text or external authority while also testing things for yourself where you can.

    So that was meant as an answer? I can’t even begin to understand how.

    But you can answer the question, and the answer is no, there’s nothing wrong with that. Ok, that I understand. Good.

    Nothing I say about my experiences or beliefs should ever be taken as a commentary on anyone else’s experiences or beliefs. Make sense?

    Yes, by itself.

    But not at all in this context and as an answer to my question. I could only think of one way that could possibly be meant as an answer to my (underlined above) question, and that way (itself a sheer speculation on my part) doesn’t seem compatible with the answer you did give (bolded above).

    Looks like I’m not a good fit for metaphysical exchanges.

    We never got anywhere near metaphysics here.

    Okay. We’re still talking past each other. I surrender.

    • #29
  30. navyjag Coolidge
    navyjag
    @navyjag

    C’mon St. A. This is like your battle Bryan S.  Give us more photos of your great hikes. 

    • #30
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