Some Random Musings on a Bank Failure

 

I’m not an expert on banking but I came across an interesting post on Substack written by Marc Rubenstein.

The problem at Silicon Valley Bank is compounded by its relatively concentrated customer base. In its niche, its customers all know each other. And Silicon Valley Bank doesn’t have that many of them. As at the end of 2022, it had 37,466 deposit customers, each holding in excess of $250,000 per account. Great for referrals when business is booming, such concentration can magnify a feedback loop when conditions reverse.

The $250,000 threshold is in fact highly relevant. It represents the limit for deposit insurance. In aggregate those customers with balances greater than this account for $157 billion of Silicon Valley Bank’s deposit base, holding an average of $4.2 million on account each. The bank does have another 106,420 customers whose accounts are fully insured but they only control $4.8 billion of deposits. Compared with more consumer-oriented banks, Silicon Valley’s deposit base skews very heavily towards uninsured deposits. Out of its total $173 billion deposits at end 2022, $152 billion are uninsured.

So how could the bank have satisfied customers’ deposit demands?

One thing it couldn’t do is tap into its held-to-maturity securities portfolio. The sale of a single bond would trigger the whole portfolio being market to market which the bank didn’t have the capital to absorb.

As the story unfolds it appears that regulators were remiss in monitoring the bank. The entire post I linked to is worth your time if you are interested in what happened to SVB. There are some issues that transcend basic depositors.

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  1. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Unsk (View Comment):

    Some things to note:

    Silicon Valley Bank was the only game in town for tech start up lending. No other bank would touch it. Fully half of tech start ups banked with SVB which is why their customer base was so screwed.

    Typically banks now want a year and a half of profitability before they will lend to you, which begs the question at that point do you really need a bank?

    We have ceased effectively to be a “capitalist” economy because capital no longer flows to where it is most needed but where the corrupt FED, the Deep State and UniParty want it to go politically in their corruptfinancialization schemes.

    While SVB was very woke, it’s investment schemes were fairly conservative with investing in government bonds and the like. Where they went wrong is that they didn’t see coming the FED’s hyper aggressive raising of interest rates which wiped out a lot of bond holder’s and will wipe a lot more small banks with similar investment strategies.

    This bank failure was not due to bank chicanery, bank corruption, or poor regulatory oversight. It was a logical result of the FED’s incredibly Ill conceived monetary policy which will wipe even more small banks and businesses.

    Great post. Thank you.

    • #31
  2. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    By “solvent,” I mean having positive equity, i.e. total assets exceed total liabilities.

    They are not solvent, certainly not within the meaning of–

    “Financially Solvent means the entity is able to pay its debts when due.”

    They were short by about $1B when they were taken over by regulators.

    That is what I always thought solvent meant.

    The word “solvent” is used in both ways, sometimes, which creates the ambiguity that led me to state the definition that I was using.

    Sometimes, a person or entity that is “solvent” in the sense that I meant — i.e. positive net worth — can have a liquidity problem in the short term that makes it unable to pay its debts at the moment. The word “solvent” is also sometimes used for this situation, which obviously presents a problem also, but it’s a different problem, a cash flow problem.

    As Doug (Kimball) pointed out above, there are also regulatory issues relating to the valuation of loans and loan portfolios. The story that Doug (Watt) quoted in the OP explains that these rules can cause a cash flow and regulatory problem to arise suddenly.

    Solvency can be “non-existent” but still exist.

    If a company I run was one  billion bucks in the toilet, but I am  expecting a deal to close 96 hours hence that would bring in 1.5 bil, am I solvent or not?

    If there are wolves running the hen house, could my business suddenly find itself being managed by someone else overnight, due to the “insolvency”??

    The big concern for the public  is that over and over again during  the last 5 years, we have seen that the politically weaponized agencies can stymie one  business while promoting another. All based on political positions.

     

    • #32
  3. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    Doug Kimball (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    But the banks don’t have to pay inflation-rate interest on deposits, so how does it really matter if T-bills aren’t rising as fast as inflation?

    kedavis,

    Doug gave the first step in answering your and CarolJoy’s excellent question:

    Doug Kimball (View Comment):

    If you bought a ten-year Treasury in March 2019 at par for $100K with quarterly interest coupons at 1.5% and want to sell it today, 4 years later, no one will give you $100k for it. They will pay less, much less, to achieve something closer to the current 4%+ yield available in today’s treasury auction. The shortfall of 2.5% per year, with six years remaining, represents a lot of implied interest. The calculations are a little complex, but this gives you the gist of it. SNIP

    It’s only the first step because it just leads to another question:

    “How did a drop in the market value of SVB’s securities cause the bank to fail?”

    SNIP

    Note that I changed your term “T-Bonds” to “securities” because there is a very important difference in this case.

    I read somewhere that in months leading up to the run on SVB, [Great POST BUT SNIPPING for room.]

    I believe that SVB shares dropped around 60% of their value which ended any hopes that SVB was going to survive. There are allegations that on the Friday before they locked their doors SVB employees received bonuses. Other bank stocks dropped in value as well as a result of SVB’s closure.

    Lost in the claims of Woke investments is that inflation has risen again to about 6%. snipThis hammers the middle class and most of the wealth earned in the US comes from middle class wages. You can take every dollar that a Warren Buffett, or Bill Gates has, and it will not change a bleak economy, nor will it reduce the national debt.

    Since the beginning of the Federal Reserve, Dec 1913, we can realize that there has  been little concern by those who massage the national economy as to whether or not it provides prosperity for the middle class.

    In fact, less than 16 yrs after its creation, The Fed Reserve allowed the GreAt Depression to sweep on in, bankrupting middle class Americans. (This happened even though the chosen reason for creating the Fed was to ensure that there would no longer be huge market fluctuations bringing about economic collapse.)

    If the uber giants of American wealth cared about the USA at all, like  Warren Buffets and Bill Gates, these people  would abandon their practice of running “Charitable foundations” which then stop the Feds from getting a  fair enough slice of those men’s wealth.

    Instead, at least in Gates case, the foundations’ monies are used to control the media, allowing for a plandemic to destroy mom & pop businesses as well as monetize our health.

    • #33
  4. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    By “solvent,” I mean having positive equity, i.e. total assets exceed total liabilities.

    They are not solvent, certainly not within the meaning of–

    “Financially Solvent means the entity is able to pay its debts when due.”

    They were short by about $1B when they were taken over by regulators.

    That is what I always thought solvent meant.

    There is a liquidity component to solvency that Jerry seemed to have missed.

    edit: He caught it later. But solvency is not just “positive net worth.”

    • #34
  5. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    But the banks don’t have to pay inflation-rate interest on deposits, so how does it really matter if T-bills aren’t rising as fast as inflation?

    I believe it has to do with the fact that if its long term positions are now obsolete, then SVJ is no longer the best game in town.

    So depositors would leave the bank for banks where the newer more profitable game is being played.

    However given that many of the tech entrepreneurs who formed the base of their customers and clients are supposedly parking their business there due to contracts which they signed with SVB forcing them to do that when SVB provided them VC funds, I am not sure why it should be assumed that the bank would go belly up.

    So we are back to asking, “Why?”

    CarolJoy,

    The article Doug linked to explained why very clearly.

    I think Doug and several others here can answer any specific questions you and kedavis have after reading it. It’s all just common sense, once you get through the language barrier! Everyone involved except the government is simply making trade-offs for the exact same reasons that you would in the same position.

    (I understand the answer after reading the article, but unfortunately I am not good at explaining things.)

    There is ambiguity in the article.

    For those who already understand the matter, the ambiguity is not apparent.

    Plus some of the remarks Doug made are just opinion.

    Do all the members of SVB know each other? Most depositors don’t know each other. Many of these people don’t even see that much of their families.

    In the tech world, rarely do people starting out know that many people. The VC people most likely know each other. Those who are established millionaires might.

    But if it is truly a bank for start ups that were rejected by the larger banks, the tech people now  getting on the bottom rung of the ladder that is tech industry are too busy keeping their prototypes up and running, let alone meeting everyone.

    • #35
  6. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Doug Kimball (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    But the banks don’t have to pay inflation-rate interest on deposits, so how does it really matter if T-bills aren’t rising as fast as inflation?

    kedavis,

    Doug gave the first step in answering your and CarolJoy’s excellent question:

    Doug Kimball (View Comment):

    If you bought a ten-year Treasury in March 2019 at par for $100K with quarterly interest coupons at 1.5% and want to sell it today, 4 years later, no one will give you $100k for it. They will pay less, much less, to achieve something closer to the current 4%+ yield available in today’s treasury auction. The shortfall of 2.5% per year, with six years remaining, represents a lot of implied interest. The calculations are a little complex, but this gives you the gist of it. In the end, the market sets the discounted price, but these discounts are substantial and represent the mark to market unrealized loss figures regulators apply when assessing a bank’s capital in their financial health assessments.

    It’s only the first step because it just leads to another question:

    “How did a drop in the market value of SVB’s securities cause the bank to fail?”

    I will let Doug or others answer it.

    Note that I changed your term “T-Bonds” to “securities” because there is a very important difference in this case.

    I read somewhere that in months leading up to the run on SVB, the bank was trying to “raise capital” and simultaneously secure a loan from another entity to raise liquidity. Raise capital means that it was trying to sell stock, probably a private offering (a sale to an institution with restrictions as to how the stock might later be sold to the public.) This effort was obviously unsuccessful. The investor(s) backed out while Wall Street, sensing blood in the water, started a sell off. That left SVB in very, very hot water. BTW, the officers who sold stock in the lead-up to the melt-down may have spooked the investor and queered their own deal. Very dumb. And they will have to unwind those sales and pay some hefty fines as well as face lawsuits from the remaining public shareholders.

    Unless the people running the bank go to prison and lose all their wealth there is no justice.

    The elite always skate. They destroy lives nut never theirs.

     

    I

    • #36
  7. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    By “solvent,” I mean having positive equity, i.e. total assets exceed total liabilities.

    They are not solvent, certainly not within the meaning of–

    “Financially Solvent means the entity is able to pay its debts when due.”

    They were short by about $1B when they were taken over by regulators.

    That is what I always thought solvent meant.

    The word “solvent” is used in both ways, sometimes, which creates the ambiguity that led me to state the definition that I was using.

    Sometimes, a person or entity that is “solvent” in the sense that I meant — i.e. positive net worth — can have a liquidity problem in the short term that makes it unable to pay its debts at the moment. The word “solvent” is also sometimes used for this situation, which obviously presents a problem also, but it’s a different problem, a cash flow problem.

    As Doug (Kimball) pointed out above, there are also regulatory issues relating to the valuation of loans and loan portfolios. The story that Doug (Watt) quoted in the OP explains that these rules can cause a cash flow and regulatory problem to arise suddenly.

    If I have a liquidity problem, I go bankrupt

    So should they 

    And people should be punished but they won’t be.

    • #37
  8. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    They will get a full bail out.

    Perhaps, but the impact of full refunds for SVB depositors presents a problem. The FDIC has about $25 billion on hand to reimburse depositors. The SVB has $152 billion in uninsured accounts.

    From the post:

    Out of its total $173 billion deposits at end 2022, $152 billion are uninsured.

    They will just get the money from someplace else.

    The elite will take care of their own as always.

    The following is the announcement about this new plan which was just posted over at the Federal Reserve website.

    • #38
  9. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Doug Kimball (View Comment):
    We can condemn SVB for its woke agenda, but the real culprit here is government profligacy. 

    I am certain that having only a single person on the Board of Directors with banking experience had something to do with it.

    Story here

    • #39
  10. Misthiocracy has never Member
    Misthiocracy has never
    @Misthiocracy

    Doug Watt: As the story unfolds it appears that regulators were remiss in monitoring the bank.

    How the heck are corporations expected to do business if they can’t have simple bank accounts?  Are banks expected to tell businesses, “sorry, we can’t take your money unless you also get us several thousand customers who can deposit less than $250,000″?

    What would a regulator have been able to do? The bank had almost all its money tied up in AAA federal bonds, which are pretty much the most conservative investments one can make! 

    It seems to me that this is exactly why the Federal Reserve was created in the first place, to provide cash to banks that didn’t (seem to) do anything wrong per se (especially considering that it was the same Federal Reserve that caused much of this bank’s problem in the first place).

    (Of course, it would be a lot easier to have sympathy for the bank if its management hadn’t sold all their shares right before the collapse, but still…)

    • #40
  11. Misthiocracy has never Member
    Misthiocracy has never
    @Misthiocracy

    kedavis (View Comment):

    But the banks don’t have to pay inflation-rate interest on deposits, so how does it really matter if T-bills aren’t rising as fast as inflation?

    If the bank needs to sell its T-bills in order to raise cash to pay depositors, who is going to buy the bank’s T-bills when the government is selling new T-bills that pay a much higher rate of interest? Of course investors are going to buy the T-bills that pay higher interest, so the bank ends up with a whole lot of T-bills it can’t unload.

    The bank failed because it found itself competing against the US government in the bond market. No business is big enough to win that fight.

    At least, that’s how I understand the situation. I’m not a licensed investment manager…

    • #41
  12. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    But the banks don’t have to pay inflation-rate interest on deposits, so how does it really matter if T-bills aren’t rising as fast as inflation?

    If the bank needs to sell its T-bills in order to raise cash to pay depositors, who is going to buy the bank’s T-bills when the government is selling new T-bills that pay a much higher rate of interest? Of course investors are going to buy the T-bills that pay higher interest, so the bank ends up with a whole lot of T-bills it can’t unload.

    The bank failed because it found itself competing against the US government in the bond market. No business is big enough to win that fight.

    At least, that’s how I understand the situation. I’m not a licensed investment manager…

    Maybe I’m not seeing a big enough picture, but if SVB bought T-bills that would appreciate whatever, 2.6% or whatever, at maturity, while they’re paying maybe 1% interest on those funds that were deposited, how does that lead to insolvency even if T-bills are CURRENTLY being sold at higher rates?

    • #42
  13. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    But the banks don’t have to pay inflation-rate interest on deposits, so how does it really matter if T-bills aren’t rising as fast as inflation?

    If the bank needs to sell its T-bills in order to raise cash to pay depositors, who is going to buy the bank’s T-bills when the government is selling new T-bills that pay a much higher rate of interest? Of course investors are going to buy the T-bills that pay higher interest, so the bank ends up with a whole lot of T-bills it can’t unload.

    The bank failed because it found itself competing against the US government in the bond market. No business is big enough to win that fight.

    At least, that’s how I understand the situation. I’m not a licensed investment manager…

    You got the main idea in the explanation more or less right. Market interest rates on securities were up, so older SVB long-term securities with fixed interest rates a .25%  were therefore less valuable. That led to a chain of events ending in an old-fashioned bank run and collapse.

    I want to correct one mistake that is kind of on the medium-big side, though.

    It’s around “…T-bills it can’t unload”.  Everyone can always unload all Treasury Government securities so far in history, including T-Bills(2,3, 5, 7, or 10 year maturity) but also T-Bonds (20 or 30 year maturity)  and T-Notes (up to 1 year maturity)

    The problem is with the price the bond market will pay for them, vs. what your balance sheet tells the regulators they are worth. SVB was caught in a regulatory zug-zwang.  They needed to lay their hands on a bunch of money to handle a big outflow of deposits as its customers with big uninsured deposits started to panic.

    No problem for a banker, just sell as many securities on the market as you need to. 

    But in this case, management had previously decided on a strategy of holding an excessive proportion of low interest securities with suddenly depressed MARKET values under a regulatory category that gave them crazily high accounting/regulatory valuations.

    The rules were such that if they sold even ONE 10,000 USD security out of their huge portfolio of inflated-assessment securities, they would have to immediately lower the accounting values values of ALL of them to the current Market Value.

    They couldn’t afford to sell them, and they couldn’t afford to not sell them.

    In effect, they would have to admit that they were in fact too close to being insolvent to be allowed to remain in business. One report I read, it might have been the one linked in the OP, said that SVB probably WAS insolvent at one point (in the “you owe more than you’re worth sense, not the liquidity sense).

     

     

    • #43
  14. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    The rules were such that if they sold even ONE 10,000 USD security out of their huge portfolio of inflated-assessment securities, they would have to immediately lower the accounting values values of ALL of them to the current Market Value.

    If that’s the regulation, I don’t see how it makes sense.  If they were going to hold the rest until full maturity, why wouldn’t they still have that value?

    • #44
  15. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Maybe I’m not seeing a big enough picture, but if SVB bought T-bills that would appreciate whatever, 2.6% or whatever, at maturity, while they’re paying maybe 1% interest on those funds that were deposited, how does that lead to insolvency even if T-bills are CURRENTLY being sold at higher rates?

    Here’s the highly simplified version.

    The depositors were lined up outside the door waiting for the bank to open so they could take all their money out. Typical bank run scenario right out of the movies.

    The Bank was out of money. So it needed to sell a lot of securities on the bond market right away so it had money to give the money to the customers.

    If they didn’t sell them, they would have to keep the door locked, suspend all payments, and the government would shut them down.

    If they did sell any of them, unfortunately, by government rules they would have to adjust the values of that entire portfolio.  That would drop their Net Worth to a value less than the minimum set by the government, and the government would shut them down.

    Even if the Net Worth (also called “capital” or “equity”) didn’t go to zero (===”insolvent” by the more common definition) it would be too low for the government to let them live.

    • #45
  16. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Maybe I’m not seeing a big enough picture, but if SVB bought T-bills that would appreciate whatever, 2.6% or whatever, at maturity, while they’re paying maybe 1% interest on those funds that were deposited, how does that lead to insolvency even if T-bills are CURRENTLY being sold at higher rates?

    Here’s the highly simplified version.

    The depositors were lined up outside the door waiting for the bank to open so they could take all their money out. Typical bank run scenario right out of the movies.

    The Bank was out of money. So it needed to sell a lot of securities on the bond market right away so it had money to give the money to the customers.

    If they didn’t sell them, they would have to keep the door locked, suspend all payments, and the government would shut them down.

    If they did sell any of them, unfortunately, by government rules they would have to adjust the values of that entire portfolio. That would drop their Net Worth to a value less than the minimum set by the government, and the government would shut them down.

    Even if the Net Worth (also called “capital” or “equity”) didn’t go to zero (===”insolvent” by the more common definition) it would be too low for the government to let them live.

    Are they necessarily required to disgorge millions/billions in cash Right Now just because someone wants them to?  Aren’t there any contractual limits?

    Referring to “bank run” scene in the movie “It’s A Wonderful Life,” the Building & Loan customers had agreed to wait up to 30 days or 60 days or whatever, if needed by the company, to make withdrawals.  Perhaps only for closing out an account, but even a small withdrawal may have been classified as a “loan” rather than a “withdrawal.”

    In fact, Jimmy Stewart didn’t have to give them any money at all, let alone his own money, on demand.  That happened because otherwise the depositors – shareholders – were going to sell to Potter, and then Potter would have basically owned the B&L and could have closed it down as was his desire.

    But what would have been the problem with other shareholders or whatever, ending up owning SVB?

    • #46
  17. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    The rules were such that if they sold even ONE 10,000 USD security out of their huge portfolio of inflated-assessment securities, they would have to immediately lower the accounting values values of ALL of them to the current Market Value.

    If that’s the regulation, I don’t see how it makes sense. If they were going to hold the rest until full maturity, why wouldn’t they still have that value?

    I assume at first glance that the Fed’s intent for the regulation is to protect its clients (ostensibly, the hardworking Americans who are investing in Our Future, by sitting around the kitchen table scrutinizing  the quarterly  financial statements of the 1500 companies in their 401k portfolios).

    To protect those investors, plus bank depositors, from a bank concealing liquidity problems in its public financial statements. Those Fed clients, plus, I don’t know, the top five Wall Street firms where the Fed’s employees hope to get their NEXT job, the same ones where they had their LAST job?)

    How do these Accounting rules protect investors and depositors?  This way:

    Reporting an Asset portfolio as Hold to Maturity in a quarterly financial statement tells the   public this: “Don’t worry about the fact that this 30-year T-bond isn’t worth much on the market right at the moment because the Fed just meddled in the bond markets to suddenly  crash bond prices. In 28 years when it pays out, no one will even remember.”

    But what if a bank’s managers suddenly decide to sell a few T-Bills or T-Bonds that it had claimed it would NEVER sell, to raise cash, one would have to wonder what the bank’s management knows that no one else knows.

    So, as soon as the managers start to cash in those supposedly I Will Never Cash This In assets, let’s be skeptical.  “Mr. Bank Manager, why don’t you tell us, like, right now, what your net worth is, assuming you need (for some reason known only to you and a few shrewd analysts) to cash in a whole bunch of them, really soon? Not in 28 years?

    • #47
  18. DonG (CAGW is a Scam) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Scam)
    @DonG

    Doug Kimball (View Comment):
    but the real culprit here is government profligacy.  Quantitative easing and continued borrowing and spending created uncertainty, inflation and the resultant rise in interest rates. 

    So, 3 of 5,000 banks fail and it is a Fed cause?   Seems more like mis-management at those 3 banks.   99.9% of banks have been able to handle the rise in interest rates.

    • #48
  19. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    kedavis (View Comment):
    Are they necessarily required to disgorge millions/billions in cash Right Now just because someone wants them to? 

    Yes.  According to its checking account (i.e., loan) contract with you, your bank is required to disgorge 100% of its debt to you right now, just because you want them to.  SVB had a lot of customers just like you and they all wanted SVB to disgorge the entire amount of its liability right now.

    That is what happens in every bank run that ever happened.

    Aren’t there any contractual limits?

    Yes, your contract with the bank specifies the contractual limit.  It is the loan balance, i.e., your checking account balance that the bank sends you.

     

    • #49
  20. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    kedavis (View Comment):
    But what would have been the problem with other shareholders or whatever, ending up owning SVB?

    The shareholders exclusively owned 100% of SVB from the time it was born until the government legally confiscated 100% of it from them.

    • #50
  21. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    But what would have been the problem with other shareholders or whatever, ending up owning SVB?

    The shareholders exclusively owned 100% of SVB from the time it was born until the government legally confiscated 100% of it from them.

    I meant, as in the movie, letting the shareholders sell their shares to someone else for half price or whatever they could get, and then whoever pays them off, some private party or investors not the gubmint, now owns SVB.

    For those over the $250k limit anyway.

    • #51
  22. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Meanwhile one nation that is unconcerned about bank failures, it’s the nation possessing “The First National Bank of The Ukraine”

    • #52
  23. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    But what would have been the problem with other shareholders or whatever, ending up owning SVB?

    The shareholders exclusively owned 100% of SVB from the time it was born until the government legally confiscated 100% of it from them.

    I meant, as in the movie, letting the shareholders sell their shares to someone else for half price or whatever they could get, and then whoever pays them off, some private party or investors not the gubmint, now owns SVB.

    For those over the $250k limit anyway.

    Depositors are insured by FDIC for up to $250k of lost deposits.

    The shareholders (i.e. the owners of the bank) have no protection at all.  Just the opposite: under the law they are the party to the contracts who committed the breach of contract with the depositors, and they are fully liable for the damages they caused to those they contracted with.

    • #53
  24. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    The shareholders (i.e. the owners of the bank) have no protection at all.  Just the opposite: under the law they are the party to the contracts who committed the breach of contract with the depositors, and they are fully liable for the damages they caused to those they contracted with.

    Because they were negligent in their duties to approve Board members with actual banking experience, instead of being politically connected.

    Political connected-ness is helping the depositors, but not the shareholders.

    • #54
  25. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Unsk (View Comment):

    Some things to note:

    Silicon Valley Bank was the only game in town for tech start up lending. No other bank would touch it. Fully half of tech start ups banked with SVB which is why their customer base was so screwed.

    Typically banks now want a year and a half of profitability before they will lend to you, which begs the question at that point do you really need a bank?

    Unsk, I have been repeating this, but haven;t seen it sourced anywhere.  It makes sense to me — can you back this up?

    • #55
  26. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    BDB (View Comment):

    Unsk (View Comment):

    Some things to note:

    Silicon Valley Bank was the only game in town for tech start up lending. No other bank would touch it. Fully half of tech start ups banked with SVB which is why their customer base was so screwed.

    Typically banks now want a year and a half of profitability before they will lend to you, which begs the question at that point do you really need a bank?

    Unsk, I have been repeating this, but haven;t seen it sourced anywhere. It makes sense to me — can you bac this up?

    I am interested to see the source, as well.  It seems curious based on the articles I’ve read:

    1. The massive influx of cash from their clients belies the claim.
    2. It seems to be based on the assumption that tech startups get their capital primarily from bank loans, which is false. They get it from VC. Right?

    I could be wrong…it is complicated, I realize.  And I know that SVB did invest a sizable proportion of their funds in business loans (not just fixed-income securities), especially earlier on. 

    So I would like to understand these complexities, by reading reliable sources.

    • #56
  27. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Doug Kimball (View Comment):

    We can condemn SVB for its woke agenda, but the real culprit here is government profligacy. Quantitative easing and continued borrowing and spending created uncertainty, inflation and the resultant rise in interest rates. It was this money printing that flooded these banks with deposits. They rushed to buy treasuries to park these deposits, were encouraged to do so. Then the Fed discounted their treasury holdings by rapidly raising rates, putting SVB and many other banks into a capital & liquidity crisis. They moved their short term portfolios to long-term portfolios to protect themselves from taking further unrealized losses, a move further reducing liquidity. Already structurally insolvent or nearly so given how bank regulators measure equity and suddenly, they are essentially bankrupt. A run ensues & there we are.SNIP All because the fed government created inflation thru quantitative easing & attempts to quash it, not with real incentive for economic growth, but with more borrowing, more spending, more money creation & increased tax burdens.SNIP

    By now we know that the bank will have redemption, via Federal Reserve actions.

    I am not saying that is right or wrong – just the facts, folks.

    While people on this topic opine that SVB owners & those with a lot of money on deposit with that bank, like Oprah with her over-400 million, should have watched the activities of the bank’s execs & its board of directors more carefully, there are 2 other culprits.

    What is concerning is that these culprits are entities on the Fed level. If they did not do proper oversight here, we can assume they did not do  proper oversight of America’s other banks as well.

    From Bill Ackman  @billackman  on twitter:

    “The @FDICgov  and the  OCC also screwed up.

    “It is their job to monitor our banking system for risk and SVB should have been high on their watch list with more than $200B of assets and $170B of deposits from business borrowers in effectively the same industry.

    “The FDIC’s and OCC’s failure to do their jobs should not be allowed to cause the destruction of 1,000s of our nation’s highest potential and highest growth businesses (and the resulting losses of 10s of 1,000s of jobs for some of our most talented younger generation) while also permanently impairing our community and regional banks’ access to low-cost deposits.

    This administration ‘s SNIP  approach to SVB’s failure guarantees duopolistic banking risk concentration in a handful of SIBs. My SNIP review of SVB’s balance sheet suggests even in a liquidation, depositors should eventually get back about 98% of their deposits, but eventually is too long SNIP.

    “So even without assigning any franchise value to SVB, the cost of a gov’t guarantee of SVB deposits would be minimal. On the other hand, unintended consequences of the gov’t’s failure to guarantee SVB deposits are vast and profound & need to be considered and addressed before Monday the 13th 2023. Otherwise, watch out below.”

    ####

     

    • #57
  28. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    “So even without assigning any franchise value to SVB, the cost of a gov’t guarantee of SVB deposits would be minimal. On the other hand, unintended consequences of the gov’t’s failure to guarantee SVB deposits are vast and profound & need to be considered and addressed before Monday the 13th 2023. Otherwise, watch out below.”

    The “unintended consequences of…” What??  The gov’t’s failure to guarantee SVB deposits?!?! 

    The more moral hazard gasoline the interventionists pour onto the fire, the bigger the fires get, and the more gasoline they demand.

    No, let’s not remove ALL of the remaining capacity of the markets to weigh the price of risk. It will lead directly to the CBDC goal of eliminating private banking and replacing it with totalitarian money and banking systems.  They won’t even need CBDC!

    • #58
  29. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    “So even without assigning any franchise value to SVB, the cost of a gov’t guarantee of SVB deposits would be minimal. On the other hand, unintended consequences of the gov’t’s failure to guarantee SVB deposits are vast and profound & need to be considered and addressed before Monday the 13th 2023. Otherwise, watch out below.”

    The “unintended consequences of…” What?? The gov’t’s failure to guarantee SVB deposits?!?!

    The more moral hazard gasoline the interventionists pour onto the fire, the bigger the fires get, and the more gasoline they demand.

    No, let’s not remove ALL of the remaining capacity of the markets to weigh the price of risk. It will lead directly to the CBDC goal of eliminating private banking and replacing it with totalitarian money and banking systems. They won’t even need CBDC!

    I appreciate your remarks, Mark. I’m trying to figure out how I feel and think  about this, so your thoughts are something I will consider.

    I will repeat the one fact I do take seriously, about which my mind is made up, which was from Bill Ackman: “

    “The @FDICgov  and the  OCC also screwed up.

    “It is their job to monitor our banking system for risk and SVB should have been high on their watch list with more than $200B of assets and $170B of deposits from business borrowers in effectively the same industry.”

     

    :

    • #59
  30. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    I will repeat the one fact I do take seriously, about which my mind is made up, which was from Bill Ackman: “

    “The @ FDICgov and the OCC also screwed up.

    “It is their job to monitor our banking system for risk and SVB should have been high on their watch list with more than $200B of assets and $170B of deposits from business borrowers in effectively the same industry.”

    I definitely agree with that!

    • #60
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