The War in Ukraine Is a Proxy War

Bryan G. Stephens
Bryan G. Stephens
12316
 

I find it amazing I have even to make this argument, but here we are.

When the USSR invaded Afghanistan, the Reagan administration made the call to arm the defenders. The stated goal was to bleed our enemy. It was a way to hurt the USSR by proxy. Indeed, on Wikipedia, it is listed as one of the proxy wars of the Cold War.

In more modern times, our forces in Iraq have faced forces supported by Iran. That was a proxy war by Iran with us.

I am being sold on helping Ukraine, in part, as it is doing damage to our enemy, Russia. We are arming and using Ukraine to hurt the nation that is our enemy. The President of America has publicly called for Putin to be deposed, for crying out loud.

Just what do you people think a Proxy War is, anyway? By what criteria is arming another nation to fight our enemy with the stated intention that a reason to do it is to hurt our enemy, not a Proxy War?

I am sorry y’all don’t like the label, but being for arming someone else to fight on our behalf is the very definition of a Proxy War.

Oh, I know, we are also there to save a great and noble people from the evil that is Putin. However, the moment anyone says, “Wait, I am not sure I want to spend treasure fighting every invasion,” we are told, “But this is hurting Russia!” So, sorry, the idea we are doing this to be the good guys is immediately supported by the benefits of a Proxy War. If you want to claim you don’t support a Proxy War, you then don’t get to list as a good “this hurts our enemy, Russia” as a reason for us to be there.

Well, you can, but it is flat-out dishonest.

Published in General
Join Ricochet!
This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 123 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
Join Ricochet
  1. GPentelie Coolidge
    GPentelie
    @GPentelie
    2:59 PM EST ⋅ Feb 27, 2023

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Obviously, the limits would have to be proportional the mean of all troops of various flags active in the war.

    Yes, this is a fuzzy logic/judgement call/common sense type matter. That’s why, in my comment (#114), in which I also referred back to my earlier comment (#93), I wrote (bolded bits for emphasis):

    “Not having any boots on the ground to speak of in Ukraine, whereby our Marines are exchanging fire with Russia’s Wagnerites or our fighter pilots are having dog fights with the Russians’, is what qualifies this war a proxy war for the US. In Korea, the Chinese had a whole bunch of boots on the ground and such, so the Korea War doesn’t qualify as a proxy war either for them or for the US. In Vietnam, the Soviets had a minuscule number of boots on the ground and such, so that’s why I wrote that it was considerably closer to qualifying as a proxy war for them, despite the quantity of materiel they sent in (just like the materiel we are now sending into the Ukraine).”

    It is most definitely not a precise science/math/legal code matter, and seeking such precision is utterly absurd. Hence, my comment #117.

    PS (and with this, I’m done with this sub-topic in this thread):

    Korean War

    China: not a proxy

    US: not a proxy

    USSR: proxy

    Vietnam War

    China: not a proxy

    US: not a proxy

    USSR: arguable either way

    Afghanistan War (previous one):

    USSR: not a proxy

    US: proxy

    Ukraine War

    Russia: not a proxy

    US: proxy

    • #121
  2. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist
    5:44 PM EST ⋅ Feb 27, 2023

    And, oh, lookie here. . .

    https://pjmedia.com/vodkapundit/2023/02/27/outsourcing-biden-outmaneuvered-by-xi-on-ukraine-peace-plan-n1674096

     “I think that, in general, the fact that China started talking about peace in Ukraine, I think that it is not bad,” Zelenskyy said on Friday. “Everything is progressing, developing, said Putin that same day. “We are reaching new frontiers.”

    So, let me get this straight. The geniuses in the WH, the Pentagon, and the State Department send billions of our cash and armaments to Ukraine (as a payoff to keep the Ukrainians from revealing Biden corruption?) and Xi steps in and becomes the hero. Outmaneuvered by the Chinese? I’m shocked, shocked I tell you.

     Who’s running this sh– show? Oh, that’s right, Winkin’, Blinken, and Nod. 

    • #122
  3. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan
    5:47 PM EST ⋅ Feb 27, 2023

    GPentelie (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    GPentelie (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):
    I don’t think there is a moral equivalence between the West and Russia, China, and Iran.

    Unfortunately, the military-industrial complex that Pres. Eisenhower warned us about in his 1961 Farewell Address has been whittling away at our moral capital over the past several decades, and at an accelerating pace since the fall of the Soviet Union. Hence my occasional reiteration (not in this thread, but in several previous ones) of the following:

    There are no White Hats among the major players involved in the war in Ukraine. The war is the unfortunate and deplorable culmination of cynical, hard-nosed geopolitical jostling between the US and Russia that has been going on for a few decades in that country, with each side maneuvering to install their team of kleptocrats in charge of the country’s resources. The US finally won the “cold” part of that contest decisively, with the coup of 2014. Putin’s immediate reaction (in Crimea, Donbas) was the beginning of the “hot” part of this geopolitical jostling, which has now escalated to a “white hot” proxy war.

    Ugh.

    All of this could be true and there still wouldn’t be a moral equivalence between the West and Russia, China, and Iran. …

    Nor have I argued that there is. I think that our moral capital is not what it used to be. It has been greatly diminished, to a point where our White Hat is now as muddied as Mike Rowe at the end of one of his “Dirty Jobs” episodes. And for that, I blame our whole upper echelon in our diplomatic, military, and intelligence apparatus, spanning multiple administrations going back to at least 1992.

    True.  I think that a great bit of that isn’t a lack of moral capital it is a lack of civilizational confidence.  We decided that we are no longer sure that:

    a) We are the good guys

    b) The west is worth fighting for.

    c) Western culture is superior to other cultures.

    These three things have a lot to do with how we view and interpret our actions.

    • #123
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
Join Ricochet