Understanding Evil

 

I saw a tweet for a Chinese delicacy: Yin-Yang Fish.Here is what it looks like:

A fish whose body is deep fried while its head is protected. “Speed is the key — when you prepare the fish, you can’t hurt its internal organs, so when you serve it, it can stay alive for at least half an hour,”

(only click on this link if you want to see the living fish gasping for air).

This is not mere cruelty. It is not sadism. The Chinese have a matter-of-factness about it all.

It occurred to me that this is actually a really good explanation for cultures that do not have the Torah as a foundational text. Because there is no rational reason why humans, as apex predators, should not eat anything else, in any manner they choose. Indeed, consuming animals becomes a way to bring their spirits into one’s own body. Cruelty? Irrelevant.

This is the nature of a society that thinks nothing of harvesting organs from living criminals in order to give them to more powerful people.

This is the kind of place that believes power is its own justification. It is the “Might Makes Right” ethos that dominates every evil society and culture and nation in the world. I can, and so it is fine that I do.

The worldview that produces Yin-Yang fish and harvests human organs and seeks supremacy over all others is pure evil. It is the antithesis of everything that seeks to be good and holy.

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  1. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    iWe: I saw a tweet

    That was your first mistake.

    • #1
  2. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    iWe: The worldview that produces Yin-Yang fish and harvests human organs and seeks supremacy over all others is pure evil. It is the antithesis of everything that seeks to be good and holy.

    Indeed.

    • #2
  3. GlenEisenhardt Member
    GlenEisenhardt
    @

    It’s ok to eat fish because they don’t have any feelings. 

    JK

    China is a depraved society and our main enemy and threat to our way of life. Why aren’t we decoupling? 

    • #3
  4. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    “It’s their culture! You can’t judge!”

    Oh, imma gonna judge!

    • #4
  5. randallg Member
    randallg
    @randallg

    From the Joe Jackson song “It’s a Big World”

    Looking over Hong Kong harbour
    Throw a shrimp in yellow wine
    Eat it when it ceases moving
    Just before is fine too
    There’s an ancient chinese saying
    Always seems to slip my mind
    Does it really die with honour
    Does it really matter
    It’s a big world – so much to do

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dt5pdDP7uw
    (Is there a way to embed a youtube video?)

    I remember hearing that it was fine dining there to crack open a monkey’s skull and eat the brains while still alive. Not sure if that is true, but stereotypes like that don’t come from nowhere.

    • #5
  6. Headedwest Coolidge
    Headedwest
    @Headedwest

    I recently read an article that included commentary on the mysterious (to me) Paul Simon song “Mother and Child Reunion”.

    The article said that Simon got that phrase from a Chinese menu where “Mother and Child Reunion” was the name of a dish that included chicken meat and eggs.

    I suppose that neither part of this dish is alive, but to me it is still kind of creepy.

    • #6
  7. navyjag Coolidge
    navyjag
    @navyjag

    Another thread to bring back KK right? Best Bee article this week: Japanese laugh at how sushi got stupid Americans to eat raw fish.  Lost it in Nov. ’72 when I first tried it in Sasebo.  Never returned. Kids liked it though. 

    • #7
  8. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    navyjag (View Comment):
    Another thread to bring back KK right?

    At least try to get her designation right so she knows if she ever checks back in: @kirkianwanderer

    • #8
  9. navyjag Coolidge
    navyjag
    @navyjag

    Arahant (View Comment):

    navyjag (View Comment):
    Another thread to bring back KK right?

    At least try to get her designation right so she knows if she ever checks back in: @ kirkianwanderer

    Nope. KK to me. We have messaged a few times and did not get any kickback.  Assume she is doing well in grad school. 

    • #9
  10. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    All of this, at least to me, helps explain the dietary restrictions within the Torah.

    Tearing flesh from a living animal is considered one of the Noahide Laws, applicable to all peoples.

    • #10
  11. navyjag Coolidge
    navyjag
    @navyjag

    iWe (View Comment):

    All of this, at least to me, helps explain the dietary restrictions within the Torah.

    Tearing flesh from a living animal is considered one of the Noahide Laws, applicable to all peoples.

    Not clear iWe. So ok to eat bacon if the pig dead? Old Catholic here who is addicted to it. 

    • #11
  12. Douglas Pratt Coolidge
    Douglas Pratt
    @DouglasPratt

    I don’t want to eat anything that is watching me do it.

    • #12
  13. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    navyjag (View Comment):

    iWe (View Comment):

    All of this, at least to me, helps explain the dietary restrictions within the Torah.

    Tearing flesh from a living animal is considered one of the Noahide Laws, applicable to all peoples.

    Not clear iWe. So ok to eat bacon if the pig dead? Old Catholic here who is addicted to it.

    The Torah has no problem with non-Jews eating any non-human they like. But it has to be all-the-way dead first.

    • #13
  14. navyjag Coolidge
    navyjag
    @navyjag

    iWe (View Comment):

    navyjag (View Comment):

    iWe (View Comment):

    All of this, at least to me, helps explain the dietary restrictions within the Torah.

    Tearing flesh from a living animal is considered one of the Noahide Laws, applicable to all peoples.

    Not clear iWe. So ok to eat bacon if the pig dead? Old Catholic here who is addicted to it.

    The Torah has no problem with non-Jews eating any non-human they like. But it has to be all-the-way dead first.

    Got it. The 2 lbs. of pepper bacon I picked up in the Safeway today looked real dead. 

    • #14
  15. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    I recently read an article that included commentary on the mysterious (to me) Paul Simon song “Mother and Child Reunion”.

    The article said that Simon got that phrase from a Chinese menu where “Mother and Child Reunion” was the name of a dish that included chicken meat and eggs.

    I suppose that neither part of this dish is alive, but to me it is still kind of creepy.

    Kind of like seething a goat in its own mother’s milk.  Too gross for words.  Unfortunately, with a little curry powder and cardamom it’s very tasty.

    • #15
  16. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    I recently read an article that included commentary on the mysterious (to me) Paul Simon song “Mother and Child Reunion”.

    The article said that Simon got that phrase from a Chinese menu where “Mother and Child Reunion” was the name of a dish that included chicken meat and eggs.

    I suppose that neither part of this dish is alive, but to me it is still kind of creepy.

    I’ve heard that story, too. Though I heard that it came to him while he was eating that dish at some diner. (Not that he read it on a menu.)

    • #16
  17. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    I’d throw away that Carp and eat what they mounted it on.

    • #17
  18. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Here is a list of creatures eaten alive. I do not recommend clicking on the link. 

    Japan and Korea are also places where seafood is eaten while alive. 

    And much of the world eats oysters alive. 

    To my mind, these practices are distasteful (except oysters, I like those). 

    Sure it’s disturbing, but is it really ‘evil’? 

     

    • #18
  19. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    TBA (View Comment):

    Here is a list of creatures eaten alive. I do not recommend clicking on the link.

    Japan and Korea are also places where seafood is eaten while alive.

    And much of the world eats oysters alive.

    To my mind, these practices are distasteful (except oysters, I like those).

    Sure it’s disturbing, but is it really ‘evil’?

    And I eat raw live clams, too.  But they probably don’t feel pain.

    • #19
  20. Headedwest Coolidge
    Headedwest
    @Headedwest

    Flicker (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Here is a list of creatures eaten alive. I do not recommend clicking on the link.

    Japan and Korea are also places where seafood is eaten while alive.

    And much of the world eats oysters alive.

    To my mind, these practices are distasteful (except oysters, I like those).

    Sure it’s disturbing, but is it really ‘evil’?

    And I eat raw live clams, too. But they probably don’t feel pain.

    How do you know??

    • #20
  21. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Here is a list of creatures eaten alive. I do not recommend clicking on the link.

    Japan and Korea are also places where seafood is eaten while alive.

    And much of the world eats oysters alive.

    To my mind, these practices are distasteful (except oysters, I like those).

    Sure it’s disturbing, but is it really ‘evil’?

    And I eat raw live clams, too. But they probably don’t feel pain.

    How do you know??

    I don’t actually, but they’ve never complained.  The live carrots, onions, chives, mushrooms, green peas, celery and assorted herbs off the bush might feel pain however.

    • #21
  22. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    Flicker (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Here is a list of creatures eaten alive. I do not recommend clicking on the link.

    Japan and Korea are also places where seafood is eaten while alive.

    And much of the world eats oysters alive.

    To my mind, these practices are distasteful (except oysters, I like those).

    Sure it’s disturbing, but is it really ‘evil’?

    And I eat raw live clams, too. But they probably don’t feel pain.

    I think the impact on the eater may be the real problem. It does bad things to a person to treat living animals with callousness or cruelty.

    • #22
  23. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Here is a list of creatures eaten alive. I do not recommend clicking on the link.

    Japan and Korea are also places where seafood is eaten while alive.

    And much of the world eats oysters alive.

    To my mind, these practices are distasteful (except oysters, I like those).

    Sure it’s disturbing, but is it really ‘evil’?

    And I eat raw live clams, too. But they probably don’t feel pain.

    How do you know??

    I don’t actually, but they’ve never complained. The live carrots, onions, chives, mushrooms, green peas, celery and assorted herbs off the bush might feel pain however.

    Tool had a weird bit at the end one of their songs.

    And the angel of the lord came unto me

    Snatching me up from my place of slumber

    And took me on high and higher still

    Until we moved to the spaces betwixt the air itself

    And he brought me into a vast farmlands of our own Midwest

    And as we descended cries of impending doom rose from the soil

    One thousand nay a million voices full of fear

    And terror possessed me then

    And I begged Angel of the Lord what are these tortured screams?

    And the angel said unto me

    These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots!

    You see, Reverend Maynard

    Tomorrow is harvest day and to them it is the holocaust

    And I sprang from my slumber drenched in sweat

    Like the tears of one million terrified brothers and roared

    “Hear me now, I have seen the light!

    They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul!

    Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers!

    Can I get an amen? Can I get a hallelujah? Thank you Jesus

    • #23
  24. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Flicker (View Comment):
    The live carrots, onions, chives, mushrooms, green peas, celery and assorted herbs off the bush might feel pain however.

    • #24
  25. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    I don’t find this to be much of an example of evil.  It does strike me as bizarre.

    Can you not stand to watch a fish die out of water, iWe?  Seriously?  This happens just about any time that anyone fishes.  It’s what happens to the fish.

    We kill all sorts of other animals too, and eat them.  They suffer.  That was true in Torah Judaism, too.

    What’s going on here?  Have you lived such a sheltered life that you can’t handle reality?  

    I used to be squeamish in this way, though not about fish.  I had an aversion to killing birds or rodents.  This is sometimes necessary, so with time, I got over it.

    This is probably a benefit of teaching a kid to hunt or fish.  Reality is harsh.

    I think that it’s a serious error to confuse sympathy with virtue.  Sometimes, virtue requires you to overcome your natural sympathy.

    • #25
  26. jzdro Member
    jzdro
    @jzdro

    iWe (View Comment):

    I think the impact on the eater may be the real problem. It does bad things to a person to treat living animals with callousness or cruelty.

    Yup, they have enough brains and imagination to recognize physical suffering in another living creature, even when that creature cannot speak, or even vocalize. So they know what they are doing, and are responsible for what they are doing. To refuse to ease suffering, deliberately to cause suffering, deliberately to keep the spiritual callouses thick, are acts of evil enforced and perpetuated by culture. Sure it hurts their victims and it hurts them, too. But the Han did conquer all of China!  That is what mattered most.  And what matters most is determined by a system of moral order thought through by outstanding individuals and enforced thereafter by culture.

     

    • #26
  27. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    I don’t find this to be much of an example of evil. It does strike me as bizarre.

    Can you not stand to watch a fish die out of water, iWe? Seriously? This happens just about any time that anyone fishes. It’s what happens to the fish.

    This fish is taken out of water, and partially deep-fried. Then it is deliberately kept alive WHILE IT IS BEING EATEN.

    Does this really strike you as normal or acceptable?

    We kill all sorts of other animals too, and eat them. They suffer. That was true in Torah Judaism, too.

    Jewish dietary laws are extremely detailed and designed to minimize pain. Animals can – and should – have a higher calling than dying in nature. But we seek to minimize inflicting pain on all things.

    What’s going on here? Have you lived such a sheltered life that you can’t handle reality?

    I suspect my life has been less sheltered than just about anyone here. I have lived in quite primitive conditions. I have spent time with Inuit inside the Arctic Circle. I have witnessed primitive paganism up close and personal.

    There is a reason the Torah is all about avoiding cruelty and callousness to people and all things: holiness requires empathy. There are reasons for our strict dietary laws. And there are very good reasons why tearing the flesh off a living animal is a Noahide law.

    • #27
  28. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    And yes, I am keenly aware that carrot juice constitutes murder. There is a difference between people, animals, and plants.

    My mother was once offered a still-palpitating caribou heart by Inuit who considered it the highest-order delicacy.

    People who seek to be holy should not aim to become more like animals, trying to absorb the essence of a given animal into our own bodies. This is why the Torah forbids us from eating the blood of any animal. We elevate animals – we do not lower ourselves towards their realm.

    • #28
  29. jzdro Member
    jzdro
    @jzdro

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    What’s going on here?  Have you lived such a sheltered life that you can’t handle reality?  

    Zero evidence is offered in the post that the post author “can’t handle reality.” On the contrary, he “handles” it as it is seen in human behavior, and also makes fearless judgment of it.

    The cowardly life is characterized by refusal to speak up in condemnation of cruel acts, or even to think about moral judgement of evil acts.

     

    • #29
  30. Dotorimuk Coolidge
    Dotorimuk
    @Dotorimuk

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    I recently read an article that included commentary on the mysterious (to me) Paul Simon song “Mother and Child Reunion”.

    The article said that Simon got that phrase from a Chinese menu where “Mother and Child Reunion” was the name of a dish that included chicken meat and eggs.

    I suppose that neither part of this dish is alive, but to me it is still kind of creepy.

    I’ve heard that story, too. Though I heard that it came to him while he was eating that dish at some diner. (Not that he read it on a menu.)

    I’m pretty sure the lyric is about his family dog getting run over by a car, and the title is kind of incidental. 90% certain that’s how he explained it.

    • #30
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