What About Nikki Haley?

 

Kurt Schlichter writes a brutal takedown of Nikki Haley as the right’s version of Kamala. While I think he goes too far in comparing her to the awful Kamala, his article crystallized in my mind some concerns I have about Haley.

She didn’t have any real accomplishments as governor. Yes, she is pro-life, anti-alphabet gang, in favor of low taxes, etc., etc. But did she have any signature achievements as governor? After a little internet research (i.e., Wikipedia), I couldn’t find much.

Schlichter also criticizes her for not having any strong policy proposals. Her campaign announcement was a gauzy, saccharine video. Maybe she’ll come out with some good proposals, but combined with her lack of achievements as governor, this could be a major weakness.

She agrees with a lot of leftist hoaxes (e.g., George Floyd was a saint, that garage door pull really was a noose, and others) as John Hinderaker observes. And Gavin Sample. It seems that she wants media approval more than standing for what’s right.

Although I sort of agreed with removing the Confederate flag in South Carolina, I felt she threw the Republican legislators under the bus time and again as she implied they were still old-school racists while she was the enlightened one who got rid of the flag.

I’m not deeply bothered that she is running after saying she wouldn’t run against Trump. Politicians say that kind of stuff all the time. Yes, it would have been a little smarter on her part to think ahead and not make that kind of promise, but it’s par for the course.

On the plus side, she was a tough, well-spoken UN ambassador. She was effective in denouncing the crooks and thugs that run that body.  So maybe she does better implementing someone else’s policy rather than being at the top herself.

She is also well-spoken and quick on her feet with good one-liners (“it hurts more when you kick them with heels”).  She would be great in a debate with Dementia Joe. When a reporter from Christianity Today asked if she wanted her parents to convert to Christianity, she said, “What I hope is that my parents do what’s right for them,” which is a great way of not answering a very personal question.

If DeSantis doesn’t run or flames out and if Haley comes up with strong policy proposals, I could support her. She doesn’t have Trump’s baggage, so she would be easier to elect in the general. But I’m not terribly excited about her and have some concerns.

Published in Elections
This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 121 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    I couldn’t make it very far into the Colonel’s column. His comparison of Haley to Harris was unfair in an fundamental point: Haley really did make it by her own merits. Harris got her career supercharged by being Willie Brown’s side piece. I also think Haley is much smarter than Harris.

     

    I like my formulation better:

    “Kamala Harris owes her entire career, such as it is, to Willie Brown and his brown willy.”

    I was trying to keep well within the bounds of the CoC, but I do like your formulation better.

    That was a low blow.

    Probably a lot of them, over the years.

    • #61
  2. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    I couldn’t make it very far into the Colonel’s column. His comparison of Haley to Harris was unfair in an fundamental point: Haley really did make it by her own merits. Harris got her career supercharged by being Willie Brown’s side piece. I also think Haley is much smarter than Harris.

     

    I like my formulation better:

    “Kamala Harris owes her entire career, such as it is, to Willie Brown and his brown willy.”

    I was trying to keep well within the bounds of the CoC, but I do like your formulation better.

    That was a low blow.

    So I believe that Joe Biden sexually abused his living son and daughter. And pretty much everyone agrees that Kamala Harris got to where she is because she sexually pleased a corrupt politician who happened to be black.

    How did the greatest country have the most corrupt people leading it? America is filled with people of every race and religion who are honest and competent. We got blacks and whites and every kind of Asian and we get a dumb corrupt (probably) a pedophile to represent us?

    Once the corruption begins, it’s not difficult for a lot of good people to decide they want nothing to do with it.

    • #62
  3. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    Steve Fast: Schlichter also criticizes her for not having any strong policy proposals. Her campaign announcement was a gauzy, saccharine video. Maybe she’ll come out with some good proposals; but combined with her lack of achievements as governor, this could be a major weakness.

    I’ve seen tons of campaign ads and it is common that in the earliest days of the campaign, the candidate will run feel-good “get to know me” ads just to introduce themselves to a public that doesn’t know much about them. A little bit about their experience, family, and so forth.  Even in cases where someone has been the sitting representative or senator for over a decade and ought to be known by just about everyone, they will commonly start the campaign by introducing themselves, showing pictures of their family and pets or whatever.  Later in the campaign they start talking about specific issues. 

    People who pay a lot of attention to politics are going to find these introductory ads to be pointless, but a lot of people don’t even know the names of their governors, so these introductions may be in order.

    • #63
  4. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I don’t like this “mandatory mental competency” stuff outside the context of a constitutional amendment. Authoritarian.

    Seriously? Do you know about law and stuff? (He said respectfully.) I don’t want to do anything outside of the Constitution  but I think her idea is a really good one.

    • #64
  5. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I don’t like this “mandatory mental competency” stuff outside the context of a constitutional amendment. Authoritarian.

    Seriously? Do you know about law and stuff? (He said respectfully.) I don’t want to do anything outside of the Constitution but I think her idea is a really good one.

    Considering what we are experiencing with Biden, I understand the appeal.  However, the Constitution is clear on those who may run for President.  This is an extra step.

    • #65
  6. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I don’t like this “mandatory mental competency” stuff outside the context of a constitutional amendment. Authoritarian.

    Seriously? Do you know about law and stuff? (He said respectfully.) I don’t want to do anything outside of the Constitution but I think her idea is a really good one.

    The problem, of course, is who gets to create the tests, and who scores them, etc.

    • #66
  7. Steve Fast Member
    Steve Fast
    @SteveFast

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    I couldn’t make it very far into the Colonel’s column. His comparison of Haley to Harris was unfair in an fundamental point: Haley really did make it by her own merits. Harris got her career supercharged by being Willie Brown’s side piece. I also think Haley is much smarter than Harris.

     

    I like my formulation better:

    “Kamala Harris owes her entire career, such as it is, to Willie Brown and his brown willy.”

    I was trying to keep well within the bounds of the CoC, but I do like your formulation better.

    That was a low blow.

    Had to complete the sentence: “Kamala Harris owes her entire career, such as it is, to Willie Brown and his brown willy, such as it is.

    • #67
  8. Steve Fast Member
    Steve Fast
    @SteveFast

    I’ve gotten so many good laughs on this post. We have Willy Brown’s brown willy, giving members sex robots, and a governor locking down the state years after she left office. What a hoot!

    • #68
  9. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    Steve Fast (View Comment):

    I’ve gotten so many good laughs on this post. We have Willy Brown’s brown willy, giving members sex robots, and a governor locking down the state years after she left office. What a hoot!

    Yeah, Ricochet is like Forrest Gump’s metaphorical box of chocolates.

    • #69
  10. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    She’s not running against Donald Trump. She’s running for Vice President.

    Also, this. . .

    Steve Fast: Although I sort of agreed with removing the Confederate flag in South Carolina, I felt she threw the Republican legislators under the bus time and again as she implied they were still old-school racists while she was the enlightened one who got rid of the flag.

    . . . was a **very** bad sign. You cannot make peace with neo-fascist neo-Marxist neo-pagan commies. Never apologize, never buckle under, and don’t let anyone erase your history. EVER!

    I won’t vote for her. She couldn’t possibly win anyway.

    And I agree with Glen. I don’t want a woman who isn’t Margaret Thatcher or Giorgia Meloni. No thanks.

     

    Queen Elizabeth versus General Milley? Golda Meir versus John Kerry or Al Gore?  :)

    Anyway, I’d vote for Western Chauvinist over any Democrat man anywhere and most Republicans. :) :) 

    • #70
  11. Painter Jean Moderator
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

     

    If she’s a believer, and her parents are not, then it seems to me that she has to believe that her parents are going to Hell. I’m in the same position with respect to some of my family members. It’s distressing. But dodging the question seems like being ashamed of the Gospel, to me.

     

    No, she doesn’t have to believe that her parents are going to hell. Not all Christians are as certain about God’s judgment as you are.

    • #71
  12. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    MarciN (View Comment):
    Anyway, I’d vote for Western Chauvinist over any Democrat man anywhere and most Republicans. :) :) 

    I appreciate the vote of confidence, Marci. I am the perfect candidate in the American system in one way — I have absolutely no interest in pursuing political power. 

    Candace Owens’s criticism of Haley seems measured and honest. She’s not a fan because she doesn’t believe Haley is authentic. 

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/why-i-wont-be-voting-for-nikki-haley

    And, as Owens says, love or hate Donald Trump, the one thing you can say about him is he’s always authentically Trump.

    • #72
  13. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):
    Anyway, I’d vote for Western Chauvinist over any Democrat man anywhere and most Republicans. :) :)

    I appreciate the vote of confidence, Marci. I am the perfect candidate in the American system in one way — I have absolutely no interest in pursuing political power.

    Candace Owens’s criticism of Haley seems measured and honest. She’s not a fan because she doesn’t believe Haley is authentic.

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/why-i-wont-be-voting-for-nikki-haley

    And, as Owens says, love or hate Donald Trump, the one thing you can say about him is he’s always authentically Trump.

    Agreed. Yup. :)

    • #73
  14. Steve Fast Member
    Steve Fast
    @SteveFast

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    GlenEisenhardt (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    GlenEisenhardt (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    GlenEisenhardt (View Comment):
    She’s a loser. She locked down her state and went wild with the covid crap.

    Dude, she wasn’t even governor in 2020; she became DJT’s UN Ambassador in 2017. As for the rest of your comment, get a grip.

    I do have one. Millennia of human history proves me right on this front. If Winston Churchill was a woman he wouldn’t have been Churchill or come close to being Churchill. The math on this isn’t hard. And the right is in a race to get their token in there because the right is polluted by left wing trash as much as the left.

    Lady Thatcher would like a word.

    You mean that failed prime minister? Look at England today. It’s a cesspool full of a rapidly declining Christianity with a mosque on every corner. I mean can’t you people assess that the 80s was a failure? You conserved nothing in the grand scheme of things.

    You have now entered the Gary Robin zone where I can just skip over your comments with zero guilt. I wish that the government will give you a sex robot so you can never procreate.

    I’m fine with giving Glen a sex robot; but my conservative, small-government principles are opposed to the government giving it to him.

    • #74
  15. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I don’t like this “mandatory mental competency” stuff outside the context of a constitutional amendment. Authoritarian.

    That’s the only way it would work, as an amendment. Many Constitutional scholars have said laws can’t add to the requirements laid out in the Constitution. 

    • #75
  16. thelonious Member
    thelonious
    @thelonious

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    GlenEisenhardt (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    GlenEisenhardt (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    GlenEisenhardt (View Comment):
    She’s a loser. She locked down her state and went wild with the covid crap.

    Dude, she wasn’t even governor in 2020; she became DJT’s UN Ambassador in 2017. As for the rest of your comment, get a grip.

    I do have one. Millennia of human history proves me right on this front. If Winston Churchill was a woman he wouldn’t have been Churchill or come close to being Churchill. The math on this isn’t hard. And the right is in a race to get their token in there because the right is polluted by left wing trash as much as the left.

    Lady Thatcher would like a word.

    You mean that failed prime minister? Look at England today. It’s a cesspool full of a rapidly declining Christianity with a mosque on every corner. I mean can’t you people assess that the 80s was a failure? You conserved nothing in the grand scheme of things.

    You have now entered the Gary Robin zone where I can just skip over your comments with zero guilt. I wish that the government will give you a sex robot so you can never procreate.

    Wait.. All I have to do is make a few insane comments on the internet and I get a free sex robot from the government? And here I payed full retail for mine. Boy do I feel like a fool.

    • #76
  17. genferei Member
    genferei
    @genferei

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    People whose pay a lot of attention to politics are going to find these introductory ads to be pointless, but a lot of people don’t even know the names of their governors, so these introductions may be in order.

    The two Presidential candidates who were credited with the largest vote totals ever (and by a fair margin) did not do things in this conventional, consultant-approved way. I’m not saying that staying in her basement and waiting for the party apparatus to stuff the ballot boxes would work for her, but she should be able to descend an escalator and tell us what she believes. 

    Having said that, she has published books, so perhaps that will tell us something. Not that this (consultant-approved) move helped Jindal, Rubio or Cruz… Or McCain. Or Romney. 

    Her current campaign team are folks who have been with her forever, the remains of the Pat Toomey complex who obviously needed a new patron, and Club for Growth types. None of this strikes me as a recipe for innovation. But I have been surprised before. (Perhaps one day it will be pleasantly.)

    • #77
  18. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    Steve Fast (View Comment):

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    Steve Fast: She agrees with a lot of leftist hoaxes, e.g. George Floyd was a saint

    I guess I’d need to see some evidence of this. I know she spoke critically of how those Minneapolis cops treated Floyd, but there’s a wide gulf between saying that cops were wrong and saying that Floyd is a saint. I know Haley has been critical of the BLM movement.

    She tweeted that the death of George Floyd was heartbreaking for her and that it needed to be personal and painful for everyone in order for us to heal. I’ll admit that’s not exactly calling Floyd a saint, but it’s yet another squishy thing where she seems to agree with the left but is hoping that conservatives won’t find it too off-putting.

     

    Reading the tweet I think that was about feeling empathy for other’s pain over the event.  That seems like good advice. 

    • #78
  19. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    iWe (View Comment):

    GlenEisenhardt (View Comment):
    She locked down her state and went wild with the covid crap.

    This IS a deal breaker for me for ANY of the candidates. Any pol (including Trump) fell for what many of us here on Ricochet saw was a pile of crap all the way through is not my preferred candidate.

    DeSantis is the only guy running who came to his senses early, and stuck to his guns.

    Well it didn’t happen so you should be good.  

    • #79
  20. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    Steve Fast (View Comment):

    I’ve gotten so many good laughs on this post. We have Willy Brown’s brown willy, giving members sex robots, and a governor locking down the state years after she left office. What a hoot!

    I find it amazing anyone can get worked up about a light weight like Nikki Haley who ain’t going nowhere. She may spend a lot of money from the donors to think tanks, but I don’t see a lot of people buying her dog food.

    • #80
  21. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    AUMom (View Comment):

    GlenEisenhardt (View Comment):

    She’s a loser. She locked down her state and went wild with the covid crap. The other thing I will mention that no one will is she’s a woman. I don’t want a woman as president. No woman can be as great as Washington, Jefferson, Eisenhower and the rest. They’re not capable. They can’t inspire on that level nor lead at that level. A woman may be way better than Obama and Biden. They just can’t get to the level of leadership we need for this country. So considering one is a waste of time and my answer is no.

    Nikki Haley was not in office during any of the Covid shutdowns. In fact, SC did not shut down at all by order of Gov McMaster.

    Gov. Haley did a good job. We’ve lived here in Greenville for 21 years. It was happy to think of myself as a Greenvillian but I did not consider myself to be a South Carolinian until her calls after the Charleston Nine were killed. She was a big reason our state did not burn. The Confederate flag was removed out of respect in the death of state Senator Clement Pinckney. The man was amazing and deserved that honor. He was the exact opposite of George Floyd.

    The biggest reason there was peace was the pastor of Mother Emmanuel, who called for mourning without vengeance. There had also been years of both cooperation and trust built between the residents of all ethnicities and the city government. This was not a capitulation but rather cooperation in tHe best sense of the word.

    Yes I agree @aumom.  I was very impressed with how she handled both the shooting situation and the issue with the flag.  I was working in SC a lot at that time and definitely had several conversations  with locals about both things.  They were challenging situations for sure.  The pastor of that church along with the congregation were the best examples of Christian ethics’ and forgiveness I have ever seen.  Truly the hero of the shooting’s aftermath.  I have long wanted to shake that man’s hand.  

    • #81
  22. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    AUMom (View Comment):

    For the record, I prefer DeSantis as president but these hatchet jobs on Nikki Haley are getting ridiculous.

    Obviously the reason for the slanderous attacks is that she is either perceived as a threat or they feel the only trait that matters is loyalty to Trump.  In that case it is unforgivable on it’s face to dare run when he is a candidate.  lol   Hilarious.  I think I prefer DeSantis but I want to see how it pans out.  It’s super early to commit to a single candidate now.  I want someone under 80 who can win.  :)

    • #82
  23. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    kedavis (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    I couldn’t make it very far into the Colonel’s column. His comparison of Haley to Harris was unfair in an fundamental point: Haley really did make it by her own merits. Harris got her career supercharged by being Willie Brown’s side piece. I also think Haley is much smarter than Harris.

     

    I like my formulation better:

    “Kamala Harris owes her entire career, such as it is, to Willie Brown and his brown willy.”

    I was trying to keep well within the bounds of the CoC, but I do like your formulation better.

    That was a low blow.

    Probably a lot of them, over the years.

    For the record I liked it mucho

    • #83
  24. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I don’t like this “mandatory mental competency” stuff outside the context of a constitutional amendment. Authoritarian.

    Seriously? Do you know about law and stuff? (He said respectfully.) I don’t want to do anything outside of the Constitution but I think her idea is a really good one.

    The problem, of course, is who gets to create the tests, and who scores them, etc.

    Exactly.

    • #84
  25. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    MarciN (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I don’t like this “mandatory mental competency” stuff outside the context of a constitutional amendment. Authoritarian.

    Seriously? Do you know about law and stuff? (He said respectfully.) I don’t want to do anything outside of the Constitution but I think her idea is a really good one.

    The problem, of course, is who gets to create the tests, and who scores them, etc.

    Exactly.

    That she believes in experts rather than the general population who have the ability to make such a judgment shows she is an elitist and not to be trusted.

    • #85
  26. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    Manny (View Comment):

    iWe (View Comment):

    GlenEisenhardt (View Comment):
    She locked down her state and went wild with the covid crap.

    This IS a deal breaker for me for ANY of the candidates. Any pol (including Trump) fell for what many of us here on Ricochet saw was a pile of crap all the way through is not my preferred candidate.

    DeSantis is the only guy running who came to his senses early, and stuck to his guns.

    Was she even in office during Covid? I don’t think so. She was governor from 2011 to 2017. I’m no Haley fan but that is a slanderous lie.

    As soon as that was pointed out I edited my comment to reflect it. But I was not fast enough – many people copied my first draft before I got the correction in. 

    • #86
  27. She Member
    She
    @She

    GlenEisenhardt (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    GlenEisenhardt (View Comment):
    She’s a loser. She locked down her state and went wild with the covid crap.

    Dude, she wasn’t even governor in 2020; she became DJT’s UN Ambassador in 2017. As for the rest of your comment, get a grip.

    I do have one. Millennia of human history proves me right on this front. If Winston Churchill was a woman he wouldn’t have been Churchill or come close to being Churchill. The math on this isn’t hard. And the right is in a race to get their token in there because the right is polluted by left wing trash as much as the left.

    Yeah.  IOW, I’ve already made up my mind, so don’t confuse me with the facts.  And if you try to, I’ll just make something else up and keep going. 🤣🤣🤣

    As for who’s going to Hell and who isn’t, sure, I’d like it if the people I love joined me in the penthouse, rather than finding themselves stuck in the basement.  And I have no problem talking about what I believe, and what I think is the way, what it the truth, and how a life is well-lived.  But fundamentally, the state of my own soul is of more interest to me than is that of most others, and keeping it in good order doesn’t really include the sort of dismissive and downright hateful (as in full of hate) language that I sometimes see here.

     

    • #87
  28. DonG (CAGW is a Scam) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Scam)
    @DonG

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):
    I’ve seen tons of campaign ads and it is common that in the earliest days of the campaign, the candidate will run feel-good “get to know me” ads just to introduce themselves to a public that doesn’t know much about them

    What is the message sent when someone introduces themselves as “the little brown girl”?    That tells me they think that color of skin is more important than content of character.   She could have chosen to lead off with helping run the family store as a child. 

    • #88
  29. DonG (CAGW is a Scam) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Scam)
    @DonG

    Hang On (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I don’t like this “mandatory mental competency” stuff outside the context of a constitutional amendment. Authoritarian.

    Seriously? Do you know about law and stuff? (He said respectfully.) I don’t want to do anything outside of the Constitution but I think her idea is a really good one.

    The problem, of course, is who gets to create the tests, and who scores them, etc.

    Exactly.

    That she believes in experts rather than the general population who have the ability to make such a judgment shows she is an elitist and not to be trusted.

    How about if the test is that the candidate has to run a vigorous campaign with months of exhausting public appearances and tough interviews.  Then the citizenry decides through a voting mechanism if that person is competent.  How about that?

    • #89
  30. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    I think she lacks what I’ve come to call “personal power.” Many of the original 16 candidates in 2016 were very smart and capable people, but they lacked a powerful presence. For example, I really liked Bobby Jindal, but I knew he couldn’t win. After the primaries were over, he wrote a really brilliant op-ed piece for the Wall Street Journal on why people should vote for Trump even if they had qualms about his outward personality.

    It’s an indefinable personality trait I see in people who rise to the top in business and politics. Biden has always had it–despite the facts that he makes up stuff and he is smug and arrogant.

    Trump has a lot of it. I really enjoyed his “America is open for business” speech. :) His confidence backed up what his words were saying. :)

    With candidates like Nikki Haley and Bobby Jindal, and Ben Carson and Scott Walker too , I think, the personal power is not as strong as voters want to see.

    Part of that problem is the very nature of political campaigns. Candidates need to incite their followers to (a) volunteer and (b) donate. They do that with hyperbole. After six months of anger-inducing speeches, the voters want power in their candidates. :)

    • #90
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.