What Were We Thinking?

 

Imagine my surprise when I learned that the College Board, the organization that produces many Advanced Placement courses and the SAT for colleges around the country, agreed to meet the curricula expectations of Florida’s Department of Education. Unfortunately, someone “woke up” to the impact of that decision—caving in to the powers-that-be, Gov. DeSantis, in particular—and when the new draft content was presented, the Leftist protests began:

David Johns, executive director of the National Black Justice Coalition, a civil rights organization that advocates for Black LGBT people, asked the College Board to ‘consider pulling all AP classes from the State of Florida if Governor DeSantis continues to try to inject his political agenda into our classrooms.’

‘We urge the College Board to reconsider censoring its curriculum and the education of our young people to meet the demands of a Governor with a radical political agenda and stand firm in the belief that Black history in its beautiful diversity is American History,’ Johns said in a statement on Wednesday.

When the College Board realized how many woke Black Americans they had offended with the changes, they had this response:

‘We deeply regret not immediately denouncing the Florida Department of Education’s slander, magnified by the DeSantis administration’s subsequent comments,’ the College Board statement said. ‘Our failure to raise our voice betrayed Black scholars everywhere and those who have long toiled to build this remarkable field.’

What did they remove?

Though the nonprofit maintains it did not ‘purge’ the curriculum of key lessons concerning ‘Black feminism’ and ‘gay Black Americans,’ it also acknowledged a reduction in the ‘breadth’ of the new framework.

Of the units that appeared in the pilot course, those about intersectionality and activism, Black feminist literary thought, and Black Queer Studies are not in the final curriculum.

The framework also drops its exploration of the origins, mission and global influence of the Movement for Black Lives. Instead, Black Lives Matter is listed alongside Black conservatism as a sample course project, labeled ‘Illustrative Only.’

With these revisions, works by scholars including Roderick Ferguson, a professor of Women’s, Gender and Sexuality Studies at Yale University, are now removed from the curriculum entirely.

Actually, I would have had them remove even more.

Gov. DeSantis reminded College Board that they had no power or influence in the matter of curricula approval:

‘So this College Board, nobody elected them to anything. They’re just kind of there and provide this service, and you can utilize those services or not,’ DeSantis said when asked to comment on the College Board’s statement over the weekend that the Florida Department of Education had slandered it. ‘They provided these AP courses for a long time but there are probably some other vendors able to do their job as good and maybe a lot better.’

Oops.

Students take AP courses because they think they give them an advantage in college admissions. The state also pays students’ exam fees and provides bonuses to teachers whose students pass those tests.

It’s unclear if other organizations offer AP classes, but I expect they will be established quickly, since Florida will likely not be the only state to reject the College Board courses (and there are 38, plus the SAT). And College Board doesn’t have a monopoly on AP curricula.

I expect a few heads might roll.

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  1. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    Yes that is true. I wasn’t denying that the College Board might not be a player. But in a lot of private  schools, they develop their own material for teaching on an advanced level.

    A great many teachers, public and private,  have done that as well.

     

    I think a key may be whether the colleges accept their AP Submission. They probably have to go through an approval process.

    • #31
  2. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
    DaveSchmidt
    @DaveSchmidt

    Rodin (View Comment):

    One can only hope other states will jump on board.

    Pounce on the College Board. 

    • #32
  3. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    The Florida legislature seems solidly behind the governor, as far as I can tell.

    But even if they aren’t, school district admins could see to it that AP classes will continue to be taught.

    CarolJoy, have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? Not the one in the Bible, the one that goes, “He that pays the gold makes the rules.”  DeSantis and the legislature are passing laws defunding school districts that defy state laws on curricula.

    • #33
  4. kedavis Coolidge
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    Seawriter (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    The Florida legislature seems solidly behind the governor, as far as I can tell.

    But even if they aren’t, school district admins could see to it that AP classes will continue to be taught.

    CarolJoy, have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? Not the one in the Bible, the one that goes, “He that pays the gold makes the rules.” DeSantis and the legislature are passing laws defunding school districts that defy state laws on curricula.

    Umm, shouldn’t they?  The governor and legislature are elected by the people.

    • #34
  5. Seawriter Contributor
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    kedavis (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    The Florida legislature seems solidly behind the governor, as far as I can tell.

    But even if they aren’t, school district admins could see to it that AP classes will continue to be taught.

    CarolJoy, have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? Not the one in the Bible, the one that goes, “He that pays the gold makes the rules.” DeSantis and the legislature are passing laws defunding school districts that defy state laws on curricula.

    Umm, shouldn’t they? The governor and legislature are elected by the people.

    They should, and are. A lot of states with Red governors and legislatures are not.

    • #35
  6. tigerlily Member
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    @tigerlily

    Percival (View Comment):

    They can offer all the “advanced” placement classes for Aggrieved Group Studies as they like. The state has no need of utilizing that swill.

    My position as well.

    • #36
  7. genferei Member
    genferei
    @genferei

    Once again conservatives have a choice between (a) trying to ‘fix’ or ‘reform’ an institution that is deeply committed to an anti-conservative ideology – in this case state-funded ‘education’, which includes any school hoping to send students into the deeply compromised college system; and (b) working to destroy the institution and thus removing its baleful influence on the populace and the republic.

    Somehow, despite no evidence that reform is possible, and every evidence that it will, once again, be actively – to say the least – resisted, much effort will be wasted on option (a). “But (b) is just a Randian fantasy”, they cry. “All we need to do is replace the entire curriculum (from K-12-PhD-postdoc) and every institution that contributes to it with some basic Thomism – but not via the UCSSB or the current Pope or the Episcopalians or… – and everything will be fine.”

    Theoretically one could do both. I would like to see a little more effort put into (b). Or else we’ll be left lauding the efforts of Governors to slightly blunt the increase in the acceleration of the handcart to ever lower circles of hell.

    • #37
  8. Red Herring Coolidge
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    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    WI Con (View Comment):
    For the life of me, I cannot understand why every GOP Governor isn’t joining in these types of reforms. Especially those “Red States” where the GOP controls the governor, state senates and assemblies.

    I don’t get it either. Why is it only DeSantis? (Or why does it seem it’s only DeSantis? If other governors are doing the same, why are we not hearing the squeals of the woke about it?)

    They need a leader to show how a governor should push back despite the left’s attacks. Replace DeSantis as governor and you will reduce the pressure on other governors to push back. As the president, DeSantis would have less constitutional ability to push back. Do you really want the Feds telling states what to do re education?

    • #38
  9. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Red Herring (View Comment):
    They need a leader to show how a governor should push back despite the left’s attacks. Replace DeSantis as governor and you will reduce the pressure on other governors to push back.

    And this is the main reason I don’t want him running for president until his two terms are done in Florida.

    • #39
  10. Susan Quinn Contributor
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    genferei (View Comment):
    Theoretically one could do both. I would like to see a little more effort put into (b). Or else we’ll be left lauding the efforts of Governors to slightly blunt the increase in the acceleration of the handcart to ever lower circles of hell.

     

    Then again, you can blow everything up or take it apart, piece by piece. Then one day they might realize–poof!–they have nowhere to go. I might write a post on that . . .

    • #40
  11. The Reticulator Member
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    kedavis (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    The Florida legislature seems solidly behind the governor, as far as I can tell.

    But even if they aren’t, school district admins could see to it that AP classes will continue to be taught.

    CarolJoy, have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? Not the one in the Bible, the one that goes, “He that pays the gold makes the rules.” DeSantis and the legislature are passing laws defunding school districts that defy state laws on curricula.

    Umm, shouldn’t they? The governor and legislature are elected by the people.

    Here in Michigan,  Republican governor John  Engler increased state control over education by making school funding based more on state than local taxes. He set up a state board of education with more powers to reform education. Then democrats won some gubernatorial elections. Republicans didn’t stay in power forever.  Guess what democrats did with this new state apparatus? 

    • #41
  12. kedavis Coolidge
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    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

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    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    The Florida legislature seems solidly behind the governor, as far as I can tell.

    But even if they aren’t, school district admins could see to it that AP classes will continue to be taught.

    CarolJoy, have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? Not the one in the Bible, the one that goes, “He that pays the gold makes the rules.” DeSantis and the legislature are passing laws defunding school districts that defy state laws on curricula.

    Umm, shouldn’t they? The governor and legislature are elected by the people.

    Here in Michigan, Republican governor John Engler increased state control over education by making school funding based more on state than local taxes. He set up a state board of education with more powers to reform education. Then democrats won some gubernatorial elections. Republicans didn’t stay in power forever. Guess what democrats did with this new state apparatus?

    Sounds like the voters got what they voted for.

    • #42
  13. The Reticulator Member
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    kedavis (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

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    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    The Florida legislature seems solidly behind the governor, as far as I can tell.

    But even if they aren’t, school district admins could see to it that AP classes will continue to be taught.

    CarolJoy, have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? Not the one in the Bible, the one that goes, “He that pays the gold makes the rules.” DeSantis and the legislature are passing laws defunding school districts that defy state laws on curricula.

    Umm, shouldn’t they? The governor and legislature are elected by the people.

    Here in Michigan, Republican governor John Engler increased state control over education by making school funding based more on state than local taxes. He set up a state board of education with more powers to reform education. Then democrats won some gubernatorial elections. Republicans didn’t stay in power forever. Guess what democrats did with this new state apparatus?

    Sounds like the voters got what they voted for.

    Some did, some didn’t. 

    • #43
  14. kedavis Coolidge
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    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

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    kedavis (View Comment):

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    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    The Florida legislature seems solidly behind the governor, as far as I can tell.

    But even if they aren’t, school district admins could see to it that AP classes will continue to be taught.

    CarolJoy, have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? Not the one in the Bible, the one that goes, “He that pays the gold makes the rules.” DeSantis and the legislature are passing laws defunding school districts that defy state laws on curricula.

    Umm, shouldn’t they? The governor and legislature are elected by the people.

    Here in Michigan, Republican governor John Engler increased state control over education by making school funding based more on state than local taxes. He set up a state board of education with more powers to reform education. Then democrats won some gubernatorial elections. Republicans didn’t stay in power forever. Guess what democrats did with this new state apparatus?

    Sounds like the voters got what they voted for.

    Some did, some didn’t.

    Well I’d be interested in your solution for that.  There doesn’t seem to be one.

    About all the good people can do, is leave the stupid people to stew in their own juices, as my parents used to say.

    Unless they want to put up with it and stay, but there’s no point complaining about it, at least not to me.

    • #44
  15. The Reticulator Member
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    kedavis (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

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    kedavis (View Comment):

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    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    The Florida legislature seems solidly behind the governor, as far as I can tell.

    But even if they aren’t, school district admins could see to it that AP classes will continue to be taught.

    CarolJoy, have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? Not the one in the Bible, the one that goes, “He that pays the gold makes the rules.” DeSantis and the legislature are passing laws defunding school districts that defy state laws on curricula.

    Umm, shouldn’t they? The governor and legislature are elected by the people.

    Here in Michigan, Republican governor John Engler increased state control over education by making school funding based more on state than local taxes. He set up a state board of education with more powers to reform education. Then democrats won some gubernatorial elections. Republicans didn’t stay in power forever. Guess what democrats did with this new state apparatus?

    Sounds like the voters got what they voted for.

    Some did, some didn’t.

    Well I’d be interested in your solution for that. There doesn’t seem to be one.

    About all the good people can do, is leave the stupid people to stew in their own juices, as my parents used to say.

    Unless they want to put up with it and stay, but there’s no point complaining about it, at least not to me.

    No, there is no solution. As a conservative I don’t believe in solutions, anyway. To minimize the harm, as many people as possible need to be sweating the details every step of the way.  

    • #45
  16. kedavis Coolidge
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    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

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    kedavis (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

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    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    The Florida legislature seems solidly behind the governor, as far as I can tell.

    But even if they aren’t, school district admins could see to it that AP classes will continue to be taught.

    CarolJoy, have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? Not the one in the Bible, the one that goes, “He that pays the gold makes the rules.” DeSantis and the legislature are passing laws defunding school districts that defy state laws on curricula.

    Umm, shouldn’t they? The governor and legislature are elected by the people.

    Here in Michigan, Republican governor John Engler increased state control over education by making school funding based more on state than local taxes. He set up a state board of education with more powers to reform education. Then democrats won some gubernatorial elections. Republicans didn’t stay in power forever. Guess what democrats did with this new state apparatus?

    Sounds like the voters got what they voted for.

    Some did, some didn’t.

    Well I’d be interested in your solution for that. There doesn’t seem to be one.

    About all the good people can do, is leave the stupid people to stew in their own juices, as my parents used to say.

    Unless they want to put up with it and stay, but there’s no point complaining about it, at least not to me.

    No, there is no solution. As a conservative I don’t believe in solutions, anyway. To minimize the harm, as many people as possible need to be sweating the details every step of the way.

    That might be ideal, but I can’t really fault the people who get tired of stupid people outvoting them, and opt to go somewhere more sensible.  It actually seems wise to encourage it, since that way the stupid people don’t have to wait as long for their well-deserved fate.

    • #46
  17. The Reticulator Member
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    kedavis (View Comment):

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    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

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    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    The Florida legislature seems solidly behind the governor, as far as I can tell.

    But even if they aren’t, school district admins could see to it that AP classes will continue to be taught.

    CarolJoy, have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? Not the one in the Bible, the one that goes, “He that pays the gold makes the rules.” DeSantis and the legislature are passing laws defunding school districts that defy state laws on curricula.

    Umm, shouldn’t they? The governor and legislature are elected by the people.

    Here in Michigan, Republican governor John Engler increased state control over education by making school funding based more on state than local taxes. He set up a state board of education with more powers to reform education. Then democrats won some gubernatorial elections. Republicans didn’t stay in power forever. Guess what democrats did with this new state apparatus?

    Sounds like the voters got what they voted for.

    Some did, some didn’t.

    Well I’d be interested in your solution for that. There doesn’t seem to be one.

    About all the good people can do, is leave the stupid people to stew in their own juices, as my parents used to say.

    Unless they want to put up with it and stay, but there’s no point complaining about it, at least not to me.

    No, there is no solution. As a conservative I don’t believe in solutions, anyway. To minimize the harm, as many people as possible need to be sweating the details every step of the way.

    That might be ideal, but I can’t really fault the people who get tired of stupid people outvoting them, and opt to go somewhere more sensible. It actually seems wise to encourage it, since that way the stupid people don’t have to wait as long for their well-deserved fate.

    It’s not ideal, but it’s the way it is.  And it’s not just an issue of stupid people vs the sensible.  It’s an issue of people vs people. 

    • #47
  18. kedavis Coolidge
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    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

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    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    The Florida legislature seems solidly behind the governor, as far as I can tell.

    But even if they aren’t, school district admins could see to it that AP classes will continue to be taught.

    CarolJoy, have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? Not the one in the Bible, the one that goes, “He that pays the gold makes the rules.” DeSantis and the legislature are passing laws defunding school districts that defy state laws on curricula.

    Umm, shouldn’t they? The governor and legislature are elected by the people.

    Here in Michigan, Republican governor John Engler increased state control over education by making school funding based more on state than local taxes. He set up a state board of education with more powers to reform education. Then democrats won some gubernatorial elections. Republicans didn’t stay in power forever. Guess what democrats did with this new state apparatus?

    Sounds like the voters got what they voted for.

    Some did, some didn’t.

    Well I’d be interested in your solution for that. There doesn’t seem to be one.

    About all the good people can do, is leave the stupid people to stew in their own juices, as my parents used to say.

    Unless they want to put up with it and stay, but there’s no point complaining about it, at least not to me.

    No, there is no solution. As a conservative I don’t believe in solutions, anyway. To minimize the harm, as many people as possible need to be sweating the details every step of the way.

    That might be ideal, but I can’t really fault the people who get tired of stupid people outvoting them, and opt to go somewhere more sensible. It actually seems wise to encourage it, since that way the stupid people don’t have to wait as long for their well-deserved fate.

    It’s not ideal, but it’s the way it is. And it’s not just an issue of stupid people vs the sensible. It’s an issue of people vs people.

    I suppose it might be considered unfair that the first people to leave a poorly-governed area are probably the ones who can most easily afford to, and as time passes and things get worse, the people who have greater difficulty leaving find it even more difficult as their economic situation worsens.

    Sounds to me like a good reason to get out ASAP, rather than waiting and hoping.

    • #48
  19. The Reticulator Member
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    kedavis (View Comment):

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    kedavis (View Comment):

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    kedavis (View Comment):

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    kedavis (View Comment):

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    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    The Florida legislature seems solidly behind the governor, as far as I can tell.

    But even if they aren’t, school district admins could see to it that AP classes will continue to be taught.

    CarolJoy, have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? Not the one in the Bible, the one that goes, “He that pays the gold makes the rules.” DeSantis and the legislature are passing laws defunding school districts that defy state laws on curricula.

    Umm, shouldn’t they? The governor and legislature are elected by the people.

    Here in Michigan, Republican governor John Engler increased state control over education by making school funding based more on state than local taxes. He set up a state board of education with more powers to reform education. Then democrats won some gubernatorial elections. Republicans didn’t stay in power forever. Guess what democrats did with this new state apparatus?

    Sounds like the voters got what they voted for.

    Some did, some didn’t.

    Well I’d be interested in your solution for that. There doesn’t seem to be one.

    About all the good people can do, is leave the stupid people to stew in their own juices, as my parents used to say.

    Unless they want to put up with it and stay, but there’s no point complaining about it, at least not to me.

    No, there is no solution. As a conservative I don’t believe in solutions, anyway. To minimize the harm, as many people as possible need to be sweating the details every step of the way.

    That might be ideal, but I can’t really fault the people who get tired of stupid people outvoting them, and opt to go somewhere more sensible. It actually seems wise to encourage it, since that way the stupid people don’t have to wait as long for their well-deserved fate.

    It’s not ideal, but it’s the way it is. And it’s not just an issue of stupid people vs the sensible. It’s an issue of people vs people.

    I suppose it might be considered unfair that the first people to leave a poorly-governed area are probably the ones who can most easily afford to, and as time passes and things get worse, the people who have greater difficulty leaving find it even more difficult as their economic situation worsens.

    Sounds to me like a good reason to get out ASAP, rather than waiting and hoping.

    You can’t run away from the problem.   It’ll follow you wherever you go.   But you might get a breather while waiting for it to catch up with you.  

    • #49
  20. kedavis Coolidge
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    CarolJoy, have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? Not the one in the Bible, the one that goes, “He that pays the gold makes the rules.” DeSantis and the legislature are passing laws defunding school districts that defy state laws on curricula.

    Umm, shouldn’t they? The governor and legislature are elected by the people.

    Here in Michigan, Republican governor John Engler increased state control over education by making school funding based more on state than local taxes. He set up a state board of education with more powers to reform education. Then democrats won some gubernatorial elections. Republicans didn’t stay in power forever. Guess what democrats did with this new state apparatus?

    Sounds like the voters got what they voted for.

    Some did, some didn’t.

    Well I’d be interested in your solution for that. There doesn’t seem to be one.

    About all the good people can do, is leave the stupid people to stew in their own juices, as my parents used to say.

    Unless they want to put up with it and stay, but there’s no point complaining about it, at least not to me.

    No, there is no solution. As a conservative I don’t believe in solutions, anyway. To minimize the harm, as many people as possible need to be sweating the details every step of the way.

    That might be ideal, but I can’t really fault the people who get tired of stupid people outvoting them, and opt to go somewhere more sensible. It actually seems wise to encourage it, since that way the stupid people don’t have to wait as long for their well-deserved fate.

    It’s not ideal, but it’s the way it is. And it’s not just an issue of stupid people vs the sensible. It’s an issue of people vs people.

    I suppose it might be considered unfair that the first people to leave a poorly-governed area are probably the ones who can most easily afford to, and as time passes and things get worse, the people who have greater difficulty leaving find it even more difficult as their economic situation worsens.

    Sounds to me like a good reason to get out ASAP, rather than waiting and hoping.

    You can’t run away from the problem. It’ll follow you wherever you go. But you might get a breather while waiting for it to catch up with you.

    The idea is self-selection.  If California is insane, go to Texas or Florida.  Maybe with enough good people, they’ll stay sane.  But even if Florida and Texas end up going insane too, it won’t be for a while, and it’s not like staying in PRC will stop it.

    • #50
  21. The Reticulator Member
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    CarolJoy, have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? Not the one in the Bible, the one that goes, “He that pays the gold makes the rules.” DeSantis and the legislature are passing laws defunding school districts that defy state laws on curricula.

    Umm, shouldn’t they? The governor and legislature are elected by the people.

    Here in Michigan, Republican governor John Engler increased state control over education by making school funding based more on state than local taxes. He set up a state board of education with more powers to reform education. Then democrats won some gubernatorial elections. Republicans didn’t stay in power forever. Guess what democrats did with this new state apparatus?

    Sounds like the voters got what they voted for.

    Some did, some didn’t.

    Well I’d be interested in your solution for that. There doesn’t seem to be one.

    About all the good people can do, is leave the stupid people to stew in their own juices, as my parents used to say.

    Unless they want to put up with it and stay, but there’s no point complaining about it, at least not to me.

    No, there is no solution. As a conservative I don’t believe in solutions, anyway. To minimize the harm, as many people as possible need to be sweating the details every step of the way.

    That might be ideal, but I can’t really fault the people who get tired of stupid people outvoting them, and opt to go somewhere more sensible. It actually seems wise to encourage it, since that way the stupid people don’t have to wait as long for their well-deserved fate.

    It’s not ideal, but it’s the way it is. And it’s not just an issue of stupid people vs the sensible. It’s an issue of people vs people.

    I suppose it might be considered unfair that the first people to leave a poorly-governed area are probably the ones who can most easily afford to, and as time passes and things get worse, the people who have greater difficulty leaving find it even more difficult as their economic situation worsens.

    Sounds to me like a good reason to get out ASAP, rather than waiting and hoping.

    You can’t run away from the problem. It’ll follow you wherever you go. But you might get a breather while waiting for it to catch up with you.

    The idea is self-selection. If California is insane, go to Texas or Florida. Maybe with enough good people, they’ll stay sane. But even if Florida and Texas end up going insane too, it won’t be for a while, and it’s not like staying in PRC will stop it.

    We slap the label “insane” on it, but the problem isn’t literally about sanity.   If it was it might be easier to handle.

    • #51
  22. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

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    kedavis (View Comment):

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    kedavis (View Comment):

    Sounds like the voters got what they voted for.

    Some did, some didn’t.

    Well I’d be interested in your solution for that. There doesn’t seem to be one.

    About all the good people can do, is leave the stupid people to stew in their own juices, as my parents used to say.

    Unless they want to put up with it and stay, but there’s no point complaining about it, at least not to me.

    No, there is no solution. As a conservative I don’t believe in solutions, anyway. To minimize the harm, as many people as possible need to be sweating the details every step of the way.

    That might be ideal, but I can’t really fault the people who get tired of stupid people outvoting them, and opt to go somewhere more sensible. It actually seems wise to encourage it, since that way the stupid people don’t have to wait as long for their well-deserved fate.

    It’s not ideal, but it’s the way it is. And it’s not just an issue of stupid people vs the sensible. It’s an issue of people vs people.

    I suppose it might be considered unfair that the first people to leave a poorly-governed area are probably the ones who can most easily afford to, and as time passes and things get worse, the people who have greater difficulty leaving find it even more difficult as their economic situation worsens.

    Sounds to me like a good reason to get out ASAP, rather than waiting and hoping.

    You can’t run away from the problem. It’ll follow you wherever you go. But you might get a breather while waiting for it to catch up with you.

    The idea is self-selection. If California is insane, go to Texas or Florida. Maybe with enough good people, they’ll stay sane. But even if Florida and Texas end up going insane too, it won’t be for a while, and it’s not like staying in PRC will stop it.

    We slap the label “insane” on it, but the problem isn’t literally about sanity. If it was it might be easier to handle.

    If not insanity, then what?  Stupidity?  Do you think it makes a difference?  If you’re continually outvoted, and there’s no legal way to stop it, what other option do you really have?  If a lot of people think an economy can run on serving Starbucks to each other, hanging around isn’t going to change what passes for their minds.

    • #52
  23. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    kedavis (View Comment):
    If not insanity, then what?  Stupidity?  Do you think it makes a difference?  If you’re continually outvoted, and there’s no legal way to stop it, what other option do you really have?  If a lot of people think an economy can run on serving Starbucks to each other, hanging around isn’t going to change what passes for their minds.

    Not insanity and not stupidity, even though we use such labels.  It’s more about conflicting interests and values.  

    • #53
  24. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    If not insanity, then what? Stupidity? Do you think it makes a difference? If you’re continually outvoted, and there’s no legal way to stop it, what other option do you really have? If a lot of people think an economy can run on serving Starbucks to each other, hanging around isn’t going to change what passes for their minds.

    Not insanity and not stupidity, even though we use such labels. It’s more about conflicting interests and values.

    And by conflicting interests, I mean it in the sense that the ruling class has as its foremost interest the maintenance of its socio-economic position at the top of the heap, while the rest of us have other interests that conflict with that. It isn’t just that, but it’s an example. 

    • #54
  25. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    If not insanity, then what? Stupidity? Do you think it makes a difference? If you’re continually outvoted, and there’s no legal way to stop it, what other option do you really have? If a lot of people think an economy can run on serving Starbucks to each other, hanging around isn’t going to change what passes for their minds.

    Not insanity and not stupidity, even though we use such labels. It’s more about conflicting interests and values.

    Sensible values from sensible people will necessarily conflict with stupid values from stupid people.

    • #55
  26. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

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    kedavis (View Comment):
    If not insanity, then what? Stupidity? Do you think it makes a difference? If you’re continually outvoted, and there’s no legal way to stop it, what other option do you really have? If a lot of people think an economy can run on serving Starbucks to each other, hanging around isn’t going to change what passes for their minds.

    Not insanity and not stupidity, even though we use such labels. It’s more about conflicting interests and values.

    And by conflicting interests, I mean it in the sense that the ruling class has as its foremost interest the maintenance of its socio-economic position at the top of the heap, while the rest of us have other interests that conflict with that. It isn’t just that, but it’s an example.

    There won’t be a heap to be at the top of, if they keep it up.

    • #56
  27. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    kedavis (View Comment):

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    kedavis (View Comment):
    If not insanity, then what? Stupidity? Do you think it makes a difference? If you’re continually outvoted, and there’s no legal way to stop it, what other option do you really have? If a lot of people think an economy can run on serving Starbucks to each other, hanging around isn’t going to change what passes for their minds.

    Not insanity and not stupidity, even though we use such labels. It’s more about conflicting interests and values.

    And by conflicting interests, I mean it in the sense that the ruling class has as its foremost interest the maintenance of its socio-economic position at the top of the heap, while the rest of us have other interests that conflict with that. It isn’t just that, but it’s an example.

    There won’t be a heap to be at the top of, if they keep it up.

    Even if we revert to the economic level of Europe 4000 ago, there will still be heaps.  If we go back 6000 years they might be harder to detect.  

    • #57
  28. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
    DaveSchmidt
    @DaveSchmidt

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    The Florida legislature seems solidly behind the governor, as far as I can tell.

    But even if they aren’t, school district admins could see to it that AP classes will continue to be taught.

    CarolJoy, have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? Not the one in the Bible, the one that goes, “He that pays the gold makes the rules.” DeSantis and the legislature are passing laws defunding school districts that defy state laws on curricula.

    Umm, shouldn’t they? The governor and legislature are elected by the people.

    Here in Michigan, Republican governor John Engler increased state control over education by making school funding based more on state than local taxes. He set up a state board of education with more powers to reform education. Then democrats won some gubernatorial elections. Republicans didn’t stay in power forever. Guess what democrats did with this new state apparatus?

    Governor Holcomb [sp?] is wanting to make a monumental increase in the size and power of the Indiana’s health department.  The progressives are licking their chops in anticipation. The Governor is no friend of conservatives. 

    • #58
  29. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

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    kedavis (View Comment):
    If not insanity, then what? Stupidity? Do you think it makes a difference? If you’re continually outvoted, and there’s no legal way to stop it, what other option do you really have? If a lot of people think an economy can run on serving Starbucks to each other, hanging around isn’t going to change what passes for their minds.

    Not insanity and not stupidity, even though we use such labels. It’s more about conflicting interests and values.

    And by conflicting interests, I mean it in the sense that the ruling class has as its foremost interest the maintenance of its socio-economic position at the top of the heap, while the rest of us have other interests that conflict with that. It isn’t just that, but it’s an example.

    There won’t be a heap to be at the top of, if they keep it up.

    Even if we revert to the economic level of Europe 4000 ago, there will still be heaps. If we go back 6000 years they might be harder to detect.

    Heaps of s**t for sure, but I don’t think Klaus Schwab would enjoy living like that, even if he is at the top of it.

    • #59
  30. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    kedavis (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

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    kedavis (View Comment):
    If not insanity, then what? Stupidity? Do you think it makes a difference? If you’re continually outvoted, and there’s no legal way to stop it, what other option do you really have? If a lot of people think an economy can run on serving Starbucks to each other, hanging around isn’t going to change what passes for their minds.

    Not insanity and not stupidity, even though we use such labels. It’s more about conflicting interests and values.

    And by conflicting interests, I mean it in the sense that the ruling class has as its foremost interest the maintenance of its socio-economic position at the top of the heap, while the rest of us have other interests that conflict with that. It isn’t just that, but it’s an example.

    There won’t be a heap to be at the top of, if they keep it up.

    Even if we revert to the economic level of Europe 4000 ago, there will still be heaps. If we go back 6000 years they might be harder to detect.

    Heaps of s**t for sure, but I don’t think Klaus Schwab would enjoy living like that, even if he is at the top of it.

    The thing is, there would still be conflicting interests of rulers vs the people.  You have to go back to a very “primitive,” egalitarian society to get away from that entirely.     

    • #60
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