So, It’s Civil War?

 

Bill O’Reilly’s Message of the Day includes the following:

58 percent of Democrats would very much like Joe Biden to be president through 2028…

[T]hey approve of the open southern border, a record amount of narcotics being smuggled through that border, food prices up ten percent on Biden’s watch, the embarrassing exit from Afghanistan, a man who has “no regrets” that he stashed classified documents in his garage, and on and on…

[M]illions of Americans … approve of chaos and failure.  They embrace the political abyss, the art of presidential apathy.

In typical O’Reilly fashion, he has picked a simple example to stand in for a larger principle. “Open southern border” is a stand-in for no longer valuing national sovereignty. “Record narcotics” is a stand-in for the vulnerability of American residents (much less citizens) to crime and deprivation. “Food prices” is a stand-in for broad-spectrum inflation with its roots in domestic energy strangulation and other “green” policies. “Embarrassing exit from Afghanistan” is a stand-in for the broader negligence with our military and national security policies — somewhat idiosyncratically picking what we will fight for and what we will not, how we indoctrinate our military members, and even the capabilities of those we rely upon for our national defense. “Stash[ing] classified documents in his garage” is a stand-in for an attitude toward governance that is imperial and entitled and entirely dismissive of constitutional control.

If most Democrats want this, how can we coexist?

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  1. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    Rodin: If most Democrats want this, how can we coexist?

    Very good question. Growing up I heard that the 1960 election was between two similar candidates, both Cold War warriors who differed on domestic policy, but wanted what was best for America. Jimmy Carter wanted America around, even if he was clueless about how to govern it. Clinton maybe had bad ideas, but was enough of a politician that the 1994 election caused him to tack to the center.

    Obama was another creature. Just a few days before election day in 2008, he said that they were days away from fundamentally transforming the country. Obama also said that America is exceptional in the same way Greeks think their country is exceptional. A user here has posted charts showing the shift in parties. Twenty or thirty years ago the peaks of where Democrat and Republican voters self identified was near the center. Now, the peak for Democrats has shifted way to the left while Republicans has moved a little to the right.

    • #1
  2. Phil Turmel Coolidge
    Phil Turmel
    @PhilTurmel

    Didn’t want to like this one. Sigh.

    • #2
  3. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Rodin: [H]ow can we coexist?

    Peacelessly, same way Christians and Jews coexisted with the Nazis.

     

    • #3
  4. Misthiocracy has never Member
    Misthiocracy has never
    @Misthiocracy

    According to this website, the total number of registered Democrats is estimated to be about 49 million.

    That’s only about 15% of the US population.

    • #4
  5. DonG (CAGW is a Scam) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Scam)
    @DonG

    Rodin: If most Democrats want this, how can we coexist?

    They want what they are told to want.   They are told to want to Joe Biden.  

    • #5
  6. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    DonG (CAGW is a Scam) (View Comment):

    Rodin: If most Democrats want this, how can we coexist?

    They want what they are told to want. They are told to want to Joe Biden.

    Maybe before.  Now, they seem to be getting told to NOT want Joe Biden.

    • #6
  7. Ole Summers Member
    Ole Summers
    @OleSummers

    kedavis (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a Scam) (View Comment):

    Rodin: If most Democrats want this, how can we coexist?

    They want what they are told to want. They are told to want to Joe Biden.

    Maybe before. Now, they seem to be getting told to NOT want Joe Biden.

    I suspect they will be given the next shinny object that will take his place soon and they will want he, she, it then. Seems Joe has reached the end of his usefulness 

    • #7
  8. D.A. Venters Member
    D.A. Venters
    @DAVenters

    The Democrat equivalent of this is: “Conservatives, because they oppose the BLM agenda, want police officers to kill and abuse black people; Conservatives are against gun control so they are apparently okay with mass shootings; Conservatives want to disenfranchise minorities” and on and on.

    If enough people are determined to demonize people who disagree with them politically, to constantly feed the outrage that bounces back and forth in the echo chambers on both sides; and rarely, if ever, engage in respectful, good faith, dialogue with the other side, we may be headed for big problems.

    Here’s hoping that cooler heads will prevail. 

    • #8
  9. Fritz Coolidge
    Fritz
    @Fritz

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment)

    According to this website, the total number of registered Democrats is estimated to be about 49 million.

    That’s only about 15% of the US population.

    May be under-counting. What about those states, like WA where I live, where one does not register as to party, but merely to vote? The overwhelming majority of voters who vote Democrat in just four counties in the western part of the state and outnumber the voters of the other 35 counties may not be counted.

    • #9
  10. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    Rodin: If most Democrats want this, how can we coexist?

    The bad news is that 58% of Democrats want anarchy. The good news is that combining the other 42% with about 98% of Republicans who want law and order means that over two-thirds of the country is still sane.

    • #10
  11. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    So O’Reilly’s argument assumes that every Democrat who favors Biden is a supporter of every single one of Biden’s policies.

    Is this true of Republicans who support specific Republican politicians?  I think not.

    Why, then, would one assume that it is true about Democrats?

    One of two reasons, it seems to me:

    1. Because O’Reilly hasn’t actually thought through the argument that he presents; or
    2. Because O’Reilly knows that his argument is invalid and misleading, but thinks it’s worthwhile to present it anyway.

    To be charitable, I’ll presume option 1.  Such carelessness is disturbing and disappointing, but at least it is not malicious.

    • #11
  12. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Rodin:

    Bill O’Reilly’s Message of the Day includes the following:

    58 percent of Democrats would very much like Joe Biden to be president through 2028…

    [T]hey approve of the open southern border…

    That doesn’t necessarily follow.

    • #12
  13. E. Kent Golding Member
    E. Kent Golding
    @EKentGolding

    I have friends who voted the entire democrat line in Michigan.  They are actually devoted Christians, don’t see the contradictions.   Appalling , but I still value the friendships.

    • #13
  14. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    We can’t coexist. People just don’t realize it, yet. It isn’t because of a lack of cooler heads. No, we follow incompatible ideologies. The left has no guardrails and will never change. The left can’t be reasoned with. I fear the day when a majority realize we can’t coexist.

    • #14
  15. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    We can’t coexist. People just don’t realize it, yet. It isn’t because of a lack of cooler heads. No, we follow incompatible ideologies. The left has no guardrails and will never change. The left can’t be reasoned with. I fear the day when a majority realize we can’t coexist.

    You can’t coexist and get your own way. 

    You’ll have to decide whether it’s more important to coexist or more important to get your own way.

    • #15
  16. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    We can’t coexist. People just don’t realize it, yet. It isn’t because of a lack of cooler heads. No, we follow incompatible ideologies. The left has no guardrails and will never change. The left can’t be reasoned with. I fear the day when a majority realize we can’t coexist.

    You can’t coexist and get your own way.

    You’ll have to decide whether it’s more important to coexist or more important to get your own way.

    I know the left’s way and how it will end. That is why I said we can’t coexist.

    • #16
  17. Phil Turmel Coolidge
    Phil Turmel
    @PhilTurmel

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    We can’t coexist. People just don’t realize it, yet. It isn’t because of a lack of cooler heads. No, we follow incompatible ideologies. The left has no guardrails and will never change. The left can’t be reasoned with. I fear the day when a majority realize we can’t coexist.

    You can’t coexist and get your own way.

    You’ll have to decide whether it’s more important to coexist or more important to get your own way.

    The left has hammered on society for decades to be tolerated.  “Having their own way.”  The left is unwilling to tolerate the right (or anything non-left) now that they have power.  They simply will not leave the rest of us alone.

    • #17
  18. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    The Democrat equivalent of this is: “Conservatives, because they oppose the BLM agenda, want police officers to kill and abuse black people; Conservatives are against gun control so they are apparently okay with mass shootings; Conservatives want to disenfranchise minorities” and on and on.

    If enough people are determined to demonize people who disagree with them politically, to constantly feed the outrage that bounces back and forth in the echo chambers on both sides; and rarely, if ever, engage in respectful, good faith, dialogue with the other side, we may be headed for big problems.

    Here’s hoping that cooler heads will prevail.

    Thanks.  I was thinking I was going to have to be the bad guy who points out that Bill O’Reilly’s statement is nonsensical.  Lots of people support a politician because they believe he is the lesser of two evils, not because they think everything he does is grand.

    • #18
  19. D.A. Venters Member
    D.A. Venters
    @DAVenters

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    The Democrat equivalent of this is: “Conservatives, because they oppose the BLM agenda, want police officers to kill and abuse black people; Conservatives are against gun control so they are apparently okay with mass shootings; Conservatives want to disenfranchise minorities” and on and on.

    If enough people are determined to demonize people who disagree with them politically, to constantly feed the outrage that bounces back and forth in the echo chambers on both sides; and rarely, if ever, engage in respectful, good faith, dialogue with the other side, we may be headed for big problems.

    Here’s hoping that cooler heads will prevail.

    Thanks. I was thinking I was going to have to be the bad guy who points out that Bill O’Reilly’s statement is nonsensical. Lots of people support a politician because they believe he is the lesser of two evils, not because they think everything he does is grand.

    I agree. Maybe O’Reilly and Tucker and Maddow and others like them really believe everything they say, but I have my doubts.  The more outrage they can stir up, the better their ratings, the bigger their checks.

    But the division and distrust they sow has consequences. Some people really do lose friendships, fall out with relatives, etc because they come to believe the worst about people who see politics differently. You only get so many Thanksgivings with your family, only so many times to see your friends, only so many days to enjoy. Those things are numbered, sadly, and every year a few of them are ticked off the tally. It’s not right to stir up division and distrust and cause people to miss these things.

    My sister is about as hard core a leftist as you can find, outside a university setting. We agree on very little politically. Friday night I’m going with her to a Neko Case concert (who is also probably a big lefty, but I don’t know and don’t care) and I can’t wait. My guess is Neko, being a little on the artsy side, draws a left leaning crowd. But I won’t be arguing about the border or wokism or guns or whatever with my sister, or anyone else.

    Coexistence is not even a question. It’s essential, and the ease with which we do it ought to be a point of pride for Americans.  We ought not let tv taking heads and social media influencers take it away from us.

    • #19
  20. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    The Democrat equivalent of this is: “Conservatives, because they oppose the BLM agenda, want police officers to kill and abuse black people; Conservatives are against gun control so they are apparently okay with mass shootings; Conservatives want to disenfranchise minorities” and on and on.

    If enough people are determined to demonize people who disagree with them politically, to constantly feed the outrage that bounces back and forth in the echo chambers on both sides; and rarely, if ever, engage in respectful, good faith, dialogue with the other side, we may be headed for big problems.

    Here’s hoping that cooler heads will prevail.

    Thanks. I was thinking I was going to have to be the bad guy who points out that Bill O’Reilly’s statement is nonsensical. Lots of people support a politician because they believe he is the lesser of two evils, not because they think everything he does is grand.

    I agree. Maybe O’Reilly and Tucker and Maddow and others like them really believe everything they say, but I have my doubts. The more outrage they can stir up, the better their ratings, the bigger their checks.

    But the division and distrust they sow has consequences. Some people really do lose friendships, fall out with relatives, etc because they come to believe the worst about people who see politics differently. You only get so many Thanksgivings with your family, only so many times to see your friends, only so many days to enjoy. Those things are numbered, sadly, and every year a few of them are ticked off the tally. It’s not right to stir up division and distrust and cause people to miss these things.

    My sister is about as hard core a leftist as you can find, outside a university setting. We agree on very little politically. Friday night I’m going with her to a Neko Case concert (who is also probably a big lefty, but I don’t know and don’t care) and I can’t wait. My guess is Neko, being a little on the artsy side, draws a left leaning crowd. But I won’t be arguing about the border or wokism or guns or whatever with my sister, or anyone else.

    Coexistence is not even a question. It’s essential, and the ease with which we do it ought to be a point of pride for Americans. We ought not let tv taking heads and social media influencers take it away from us.

    The danger I see with that stand is letting the left think they have less opposition than they really do.

    • #20
  21. I Walton Member
    I Walton
    @IWalton

    One has to assume that most Democrats simply go along with what they’re told on main stream media.  Some read, but don’t read beyond some narrow field and read the New York time or equivelent  for news.  We have to change that by some sane persons buying at least one of the main stream media.  That may not happen.  Importantly, we have to free our schools from the teachers unions.  That just takes leadership in states with sane governors.   Parents should be free to choose any school their kids are qualified for and teachers should run schools competitively, not the unions, the teachers, and they must compete for students.  It’s called free market and it works.   Unlike  the overwhelmingly useless federal bureaucracy  we actually need teachers and schools everyone can afford.

    • #21
  22. GlenEisenhardt Coolidge
    GlenEisenhardt
    @GlenEisenhardt

    You’ll not only coexist you’ll take it. Know why? The conservative movement is such a joke you’re afraid to pull any government lever or even outright denounce protected liberal groups and the poisonous ideology they spread. You guys are so afraid of stripping the GOP down and getting something new going. But you’ll hop right over all that right into refusing to coexist and open armed conflict? I just roll my eyes at any conservative who is too afraid to get commies out of the states they control by super majorities or tax their enemies and punish them. But you’ll go right into mad max apocalyptic arms in the streets and militias in the wilderness. LOL

    • #22
  23. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    kedavis (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    The Democrat equivalent of this is: “Conservatives, because they oppose the BLM agenda, want police officers to kill and abuse black people; Conservatives are against gun control so they are apparently okay with mass shootings; Conservatives want to disenfranchise minorities” and on and on.

    If enough people are determined to demonize people who disagree with them politically, to constantly feed the outrage that bounces back and forth in the echo chambers on both sides; and rarely, if ever, engage in respectful, good faith, dialogue with the other side, we may be headed for big problems.

    Here’s hoping that cooler heads will prevail.

    Thanks. I was thinking I was going to have to be the bad guy who points out that Bill O’Reilly’s statement is nonsensical. Lots of people support a politician because they believe he is the lesser of two evils, not because they think everything he does is grand.

    I agree. Maybe O’Reilly and Tucker and Maddow and others like them really believe everything they say, but I have my doubts. The more outrage they can stir up, the better their ratings, the bigger their checks.

    But the division and distrust they sow has consequences. Some people really do lose friendships, fall out with relatives, etc because they come to believe the worst about people who see politics differently. You only get so many Thanksgivings with your family, only so many times to see your friends, only so many days to enjoy. Those things are numbered, sadly, and every year a few of them are ticked off the tally. It’s not right to stir up division and distrust and cause people to miss these things.

    My sister is about as hard core a leftist as you can find, outside a university setting. We agree on very little politically. Friday night I’m going with her to a Neko Case concert (who is also probably a big lefty, but I don’t know and don’t care) and I can’t wait. My guess is Neko, being a little on the artsy side, draws a left leaning crowd. But I won’t be arguing about the border or wokism or guns or whatever with my sister, or anyone else.

    Coexistence is not even a question. It’s essential, and the ease with which we do it ought to be a point of pride for Americans. We ought not let tv taking heads and social media influencers take it away from us.

    The danger I see with that stand is letting the left think they have less opposition than they really do.

    I don’t think anyone here thinks we should just keep out mouths shut and not argue against bad policies.  But I think we go off-track when we say everyone who votes a certain way all think alike and are represented by the worst people in their group.  It’s an effective way to build an audience in the media, to be sure.  But it isn’t an intelligent analysis.

    • #23
  24. tigerlily Member
    tigerlily
    @tigerlily

    Misthiocracy has never (View Comment):

    According to this website, the total number of registered Democrats is estimated to be about 49 million.

    That’s only about 15% of the US population.

    Still, that’s about 49 million too many Democrats.

    • #24
  25. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    Randy Weivoda (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    Here’s hoping that cooler heads will prevail.

    Thanks. I was thinking I was going to have to be the bad guy who points out that Bill O’Reilly’s statement is nonsensical. Lots of people support a politician because they believe he is the lesser of two evils, not because they think everything he does is grand.

    I agree. Maybe O’Reilly and Tucker and Maddow and others like them really believe everything they say, but I have my doubts. The more outrage they can stir up, the better their ratings, the bigger their checks.

    But the division and distrust they sow has consequences. Some people really do lose friendships, fall out with relatives, etc because they come to believe the worst about people who see politics differently. You only get so many Thanksgivings with your family, only so many times to see your friends, only so many days to enjoy. Those things are numbered, sadly, and every year a few of them are ticked off the tally. It’s not right to stir up division and distrust and cause people to miss these things.

    My sister is about as hard core a leftist as you can find, outside a university setting. We agree on very little politically. Friday night I’m going with her to a Neko Case concert (who is also probably a big lefty, but I don’t know and don’t care) and I can’t wait. My guess is Neko, being a little on the artsy side, draws a left leaning crowd. But I won’t be arguing about the border or wokism or guns or whatever with my sister, or anyone else.

    Coexistence is not even a question. It’s essential, and the ease with which we do it ought to be a point of pride for Americans. We ought not let tv taking heads and social media influencers take it away from us.

    The danger I see with that stand is letting the left think they have less opposition than they really do.

    I don’t think anyone here thinks we should just keep out mouths shut and not argue against bad policies. But I think we go off-track when we say everyone who votes a certain way all think alike and are represented by the worst people in their group. It’s an effective way to build an audience in the media, to be sure. But it isn’t an intelligent analysis.

    But would those commie relatives/friends/etc still put up with you if they knew how you really think?  And if they don’t know how you really think, how would they know about much if any opposition, really?  If they only read the New York Times, etc.

    • #25
  26. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    kedavis (View Comment):
    But would those commie relatives/friends/etc still put up with you if they knew how you really think?  And if they don’t know how you really think, how would they know about much if any opposition, really?  If they only read the New York Times, etc.

    Perhaps you have had different life experiences than most people.  Perhaps everyone in your world is either solidly on the left or solidly on the right and cannot stand the people in the other camp.  Most Americans are not like that.  Most people who tend to vote Republican are not hardcore conservative on every issue.  Most people who tend to vote Democratic are not hardcore progressive on every issue.  Most people are not passionate about politics and many people only vote out of a sense of patriotic obligation.

    Bill O’Reilly’s statement from the OP paints a picture that everyone who says they could tolerate another term of Joe Biden means they support everything that Biden has come to stand for, and I don’t think that is nearly accurate.  I know there are extremists who think that everyone who votes differently than themselves is evil.  But I think they make up a very small portion of the American public.

    • #26
  27. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    I’ve heard of Bill O’Reilly.  That was a long time ago, though.  Based on this I will assume that he’s still around. 

    • #27
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