Why Is There Chaos in the House?

 

I’m pretty tired of this issue already, but yesterday Liz Peek at Fox News put out the most clarifying explanation about why this is happening.  I don’t think the situation has changed much in the last 24 hours. She makes this point that I think we all agree with:

The midterm elections delivered an unmistakable message: voters are not buying what the GOP is selling.

Some say voters have no idea what Republicans stand for.

That would be me.

Peek goes on to list the demands of those voting against McCarthy, and those demands are not unreasonable.  In fact, McCarthy is unreasonable not to agree.  To his credit, he has made concessions.

McCarthy opponents cause House chaos but raise valuable objections – Republican Party needs a reboot

This is the best information I have seen.

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  1. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    BDB (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    It time to ask who can get 218 votes from the entire House of Representatives. McCarthy can’t. But nor can the so-called Freedom Caucus get to 218 votes. Nor can the Democrats, unless they are willing to share power with Republicans.

    That’s not how this works. McCarthy may be able to if he meets the HFC’s requirements. “May”. And if instead he steps (is shoved) aside, then the next fellow may be able to gain enough votes the way grown-ups do — by negotiating WITHIN the party to fight against Democrats — and not the other way around.

    McCarthy’s days are numbered. He’s fighting and threatening his own party members harder than he’s ever fought Democrats, and we can all see it. Even if he manages to pull this off to his favor, he is damaged goods, and everyone knows it. He will not be an effective speaker. He will be compromised from the start.

    For the good of the nation, he needs to step aside. There are plenty of other options. It doesn’t have to be McCarthy. To think that the House can only operate with McCarthy as Speaker is egomaniacal nonsense.

    • #61
  2. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

     

    And knock it off with the “2020 election fantasy promoters” childish insults.

    Bryan has asked that I not call them “election deniers,” so I am using a less objectionable description of “2020 election fantasy promoters.”

    Because you must have your insults.

    • #62
  3. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    It time to ask who can get 218 votes from the entire House of Representatives. McCarthy can’t. But nor can the so-called Freedom Caucus get to 218 votes. Nor can the Democrats, unless they are willing to share power with Republicans.

    That’s not how this works. McCarthy may be able to if he meets the HFC’s requirements. “May”. And if instead he steps (is shoved) aside, then the next fellow may be able to gain enough votes the way grown-ups do — by negotiating WITHIN the party to fight against Democrats — and not the other way around.

    McCarthy’s days are numbered. He’s fighting and threatening his own party members harder than he’s ever fought Democrats, and we can all see it. Even if he manages to pull this off to his favor, he is damaged goods, and everyone knows it. He will not be an effective speaker. He will be compromised from the start.

    For the good of the nation, he needs to step aside. There are plenty of other options. It doesn’t have to be McCarthy. To think that the House can only operate with McCarthy as Speaker is egomaniacal nonsense.

    I agree that McCarthy should be defeated, albeit for his behavior going to Mar-A-Lago only days after January 6th.  

    • #63
  4. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

     

    And knock it off with the “2020 election fantasy promoters” childish insults.

    Bryan has asked that I not call them “election deniers,” so I am using a less objectionable description of “2020 election fantasy promoters.”

    Because you must have your insults.

    What descriptive term would you use that fairly encompasses people who persist in promoting the fantasy that Trump won the 2020 election?

    • #64
  5. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

     

    And knock it off with the “2020 election fantasy promoters” childish insults.

    Bryan has asked that I not call them “election deniers,” so I am using a less objectionable description of “2020 election fantasy promoters.”

    Because you must have your insults.

    What descriptive term would you use that fairly encompasses people who persist in promoting the fantasy that Trump won the 2020 election?

    Reality, once you strip away the nonsense qualifiers you’ve added.

    Trump won, and we have lived through a coup.  Our Feral government is now a galloping fascism.  “This is fine.”

    • #65
  6. Steve Fast Member
    Steve Fast
    @SteveFast

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

     

    And knock it off with the “2020 election fantasy promoters” childish insults.

    Bryan has asked that I not call them “election deniers,” so I am using a less objectionable description of “2020 election fantasy promoters.”

    Because you must have your insults.

    What descriptive term would you use that fairly encompasses people who persist in promoting the fantasy that Trump won the 2020 election?

    Wise. Insightful. Prescient.

    • #66
  7. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    BDB (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

     

    And knock it off with the “2020 election fantasy promoters” childish insults.

    Bryan has asked that I not call them “election deniers,” so I am using a less objectionable description of “2020 election fantasy promoters.”

    Because you must have your insults.

    What descriptive term would you use that fairly encompasses people who persist in promoting the fantasy that Trump won the 2020 election?

    Reality, once you strip away the nonsense qualifiers you’ve added.

    Trump won, and we have lived through a coup. Our Feral government is now a galloping fascism. “This is fine.”

    Trump lost in 2020, and his attempted coup was unsuccessful.  The following book was delivered yesterday.  If you would like a copy of it, please DM me with your address and I will have it sent to you.

    • #67
  8. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

     

    And knock it off with the “2020 election fantasy promoters” childish insults.

    Bryan has asked that I not call them “election deniers,” so I am using a less objectionable description of “2020 election fantasy promoters.”

    Because you must have your insults.

    What descriptive term would you use that fairly encompasses people who persist in promoting the fantasy that Trump won the 2020 election?

    Reality, once you strip away the nonsense qualifiers you’ve added.

    Trump won, and we have lived through a coup. Our Feral government is now a galloping fascism. “This is fine.”

    Trump lost in 2020, and his attempted coup was unsuccessful. The following book was delivered yesterday. If you would like a copy of it, please DM me with your address and I will have it sent to you.

    Can’t see the graphic, don’t care what it is, thank you just the same.

    • #68
  9. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Steve Fast (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

     

    And knock it off with the “2020 election fantasy promoters” childish insults.

    Bryan has asked that I not call them “election deniers,” so I am using a less objectionable description of “2020 election fantasy promoters.”

    Because you must have your insults.

    What descriptive term would you use that fairly encompasses people who persist in promoting the fantasy that Trump won the 2020 election?

    Wise. Insightful. Prescient.

    Wrong.  Deluded.  Sad.

    • #69
  10. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Gary Robbins (View Comment)

    The following book was delivered yesterday.

    Good lord. Insurrection Porn.

    They deliver it in plain brown paper wrapping, right?

    • #70
  11. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    BDB (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

     

    And knock it off with the “2020 election fantasy promoters” childish insults.

    Bryan has asked that I not call them “election deniers,” so I am using a less objectionable description of “2020 election fantasy promoters.”

    Because you must have your insults.

    What descriptive term would you use that fairly encompasses people who persist in promoting the fantasy that Trump won the 2020 election?

    Reality, once you strip away the nonsense qualifiers you’ve added.

    Trump won, and we have lived through a coup. Our Feral government is now a galloping fascism. “This is fine.”

    Trump lost in 2020, and his attempted coup was unsuccessful. The following book was delivered yesterday. If you would like a copy of it, please DM me with your address and I will have it sent to you.

     

    Can’t see the graphic, don’t care what it is, thank you just the same.

    It is the January 6th Report.  

    • #71
  12. db25db Inactive
    db25db
    @db25db

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Mad Gerald:

     

    Some say voters have no idea what Republicans stand for.

     

    That would be me.

     

     

     

    Coincidentally, I’ve asked that very question in a couple recent threads. “What does the GOP stand for?”

     

    Nobody’s responded.

     

    Which means I’m being shadowbanned, or nobody has a good answer.

     

    Ha! well said.  No one has a good answer.  I’ve spent a lifetime defending GOP positions, and I’ve had to stop over the last few years.  I have no idea what they really want to do.

    • #72
  13. Steve Fast Member
    Steve Fast
    @SteveFast

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment)

    The following book was delivered yesterday.

    Good lord. Insurrection Porn.

    They deliver it in plain brown paper wrapping, right?

    Liz Cheney probably uses Daddy’s Halliburton money to give that thing away and ship it free.

    • #73
  14. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Peggy Noonan has an excellent long column at the Wall Street Journal, first talking about David Letterman and Norman Lear about being true to yourself at https://www.wsj.com/articles/normal-republicans-stand-up-to-the-fringe-mccarthy-house-speaker-vote-lost-johnny-carson-letterman-lear-11672959501.  The conclusion of the column is as follows:

    “The problem with the Freedom Caucus people is and always has been that they do not have the numbers to win, to dominate. America, a big, broad place, doesn’t like them. They represent a tendency within the party in which they are seceding from “the establishment,” “the swamp.” They think throwing snares and making Congress ungovernable is progress. It isn’t progress but nihilism, and it is connected to the endless loop of performance art that has taken over our politics. Once, you had to be a legislator and pass bills. Now you just have to play a legislator on media. You do TV hits, enact indignation, show you’re the kind of tough person who gets things done. You don’t have to do anything. If that is your business model—and these people are in business, and fundraising off this week’s spectacle—it isn’t bad for you if Republican leadership flounders (they’re squishes anyway) or the Democrats take over (you get to be the fiery opposition.) They tell themselves they are speaking truth to power, but real conservatism involves an ability to see and respect reality and to move constructively within it, nudging it in desirable directions.

    “Many of them are stupid and highly emotional, especially the men. Most have no historical depth. If they have little respect for institutions, it’s because they have no idea how institutions help us live as a nation, and they’ve never helped build one.

    “They aren’t serious and don’t have a plan, only an attitude and a talking point. They present themselves as freedom fighters, but that isn’t what they are. I would actually like Rep. Lauren Boebert if just once she would identify herself during roll call as the member from Late Weimar. Or Rep. Matt Gaetz insisted his name be recorded as The Devil’s Flying Monkey.

    “This fight has been going on since 2015, that epochal year when Mr. Trump rode down the elevator and, three months later, John Boehner stepped down as speaker, his leadership made impossible by the Freedom Caucus.

    “Someone is going to have to win this fight.

    “A hard-core group of 20 have so far stopped Mr. McCarthy, but 10 times that number supported him, including moderates, centrists, old- and new-style conservatives. The 200 have to find a way to re-establish their power and face down the fringe. They are being pushed around by a small minority, which once again is being painted as the face of the party, and the 200 need to push back, with or without Mr. McCarthy.

    “Flood the airwaves, take to the floor, go for broke. For eight years you’ve tried to humor and mollify. It hasn’t worked. Show America what normal, serious Republicans look like. It’s your party too. Normies, arise.”

    • #74
  15. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment)

    The following book was delivered yesterday.

    Good lord. Insurrection Porn.

    They deliver it in plain brown paper wrapping, right?

    Would you like for me to send you a copy of it?

    • #75
  16. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Steve Fast (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment)

    The following book was delivered yesterday.

    Good lord. Insurrection Porn.

    They deliver it in plain brown paper wrapping, right?

    Liz Cheney probably uses Daddy’s Halliburton money to give that thing away and ship it free.

    It cost only $13.68.  I have Amazon Prime so I would have no charge to ship it to you.  Please DM me with your address.

    • #76
  17. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment)

    The following book was delivered yesterday.

    Good lord. Insurrection Porn.

    They deliver it in plain brown paper wrapping, right?

    Would you like for me to send you a copy of it?

    Ewwww . . .

    • #77
  18. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment)

    The following book was delivered yesterday.

    Good lord. Insurrection Porn.

    They deliver it in plain brown paper wrapping, right?

    Would you like for me to send you a copy of it?

    Ewwww . . .

    Is that a “no”?  Or is that your fear of finding out something that you did not know?

    • #78
  19. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Gary Robbins (View Comment): (quoting Noonan)
    “A hard-core group of 20 have so far stopped Mr. McCarthy, but 10 times that number supported him, including moderates, centrists, old- and new-style conservatives. The 200 have to find a way to re-establish their power and face down the fringe. They are being pushed around by a small minority, which once again is being painted as the face of the party, and the 200 need to push back, with or without Mr. McCarthy.”

    Nonsense, Peggy.  All the 200 have to do is get McCarthy to yield a very short list of largely unobjectionable and basic conservative conditions.  Promises to hold some votes on the floor, and the restoration of the long-traditional Motion to Vacate, without which, the House is the Court of Louis XIV, as we JUST SAW with the Pelosi royal proceedings.

    This is easy to fix, the negotiations were actually begun last summer when McCarthy thought the “red wave” meant he could ignore the base, and the intransigence is displayed by a small powerful group of big-money-in-politics brokers.

    • #79
  20. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment)

    The following book was delivered yesterday.

    Good lord. Insurrection Porn.

    They deliver it in plain brown paper wrapping, right?

    Would you like for me to send you a copy of it?

    Ewwww . . .

    Is that a “no”? Or is that your fear of finding out something that you did not know?

    That’s “Kindly keep your porn away from me.”

    • #80
  21. Steve Fast Member
    Steve Fast
    @SteveFast

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Steve Fast (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment)

    The following book was delivered yesterday.

    Good lord. Insurrection Porn.

    They deliver it in plain brown paper wrapping, right?

    Liz Cheney probably uses Daddy’s Halliburton money to give that thing away and ship it free.

    It cost only $13.68. I have Amazon Prime so I would have no charge to ship it to you. Please DM me with your address.

    Very kind of you to offer, but my fiction reading list is full for the next twenty years or so.

    • #81
  22. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Steve Fast (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Steve Fast (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment)

    The following book was delivered yesterday.

    Good lord. Insurrection Porn.

    They deliver it in plain brown paper wrapping, right?

    Liz Cheney probably uses Daddy’s Halliburton money to give that thing away and ship it free.

    It cost only $13.68. I have Amazon Prime so I would have no charge to ship it to you. Please DM me with your address.

    Very kind of you to offer, but my fiction reading list is full for the next twenty years or so.

    You have a delightful light touch!

    • #82
  23. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    So far, hundreds of the January 6th rioters are being convicted.

    The shame of the nation.

    The Faces of January 6th

    Geri Perna is the aunt of Matthew Perna from Sharpsville, Pennsylvania. She told me that Matt went to the Capitol with a group of friends “thinking he was going to be part of a celebration.” When his face appeared in a public FBI list, Matt turned himself in and was arrested on January 19, 2021. According to the DOJ’s press release, Matt walked into the Capitol, “filmed and chanted with the crowd,” and left after 20 minutes. The same press release reads, “Later, he posted an eight-minute video to his Facebook account in which he stated, among other things, ‘It’s not over, trust me.’”

    The DOJ’s counterterrorism division contributed to the prosecution of Matt’s case. After delays to the proceedings, Geri thought in February of this year that Matt’s case was going in a positive direction, “but Matt couldn’t see it. He thought doom and gloom.” His family found out that a terrorism enhancement to his charges would have added five to six years to his sentence. After this development, Geri said that her brother called her and said, “‘Geri, book another plane ticket.’ I said, ‘what’s going on?’ He said, ‘Matt just hung himself in his garage.’” Matt died at the age of 37. After teaching English in South Korea and Thailand, he returned to his hometown to take care of his mother suffering with leukemia. Matt was critical of the pharmaceutical industry; he made a living selling CBD oil online and spent part of his free time researching holistic treatments for his mom’s cancer.

    • #83
  24. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    “Many of them are stupid and highly emotional, especially the men. Most have no historical depth. If they have little respect for institutions, it’s because they have no idea how institutions help us live as a nation, and they’ve never helped build one.

    “They aren’t serious and don’t have a plan, only an attitude and a talking point. They present themselves as freedom fighters, but that isn’t what they are. I would actually like Rep. Lauren Boebert if just once she would identify herself during roll call as the member from Late Weimar. Or Rep. Matt Gaetz insisted his name be recorded as The Devil’s Flying Monkey.

    Peggy Noonan is a [Redacted].

    I can just see her sipping her Chardonnay, musing about how she eviscerated Gaetz and Boebert with her clever name-calling.

    I also see she is ill-informed. But that’s what you get when you depend on the New York Times or the Washington Post for your news. Being ill-informed is worse than being non-informed, as we see here regularly.

    • #84
  25. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    It isn’t progress but nihilism,

    Do you want know what nihilism is? Giving money to Lisa Murkowski and Evan McMullin.

    • #85
  26. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    The Ted Cruz podcast is very good on the negotiations around McCarthy.

    • #86
  27. DonG (CAGW is a Scam) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Scam)
    @DonG

    Steve Fast (View Comment):
    But the Freedom Caucus is standing for positions that are broadly popular across the country, even though the liberal and conservative media have joined in smearing them.

    Yes, the corporate media are sponsored by Big Pharma (watch the ads).  

    As of now, McCarthy has 214 votes, so an agreement is very close.  

    • #87
  28. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

     

    And knock it off with the “2020 election fantasy promoters” childish insults.

    Bryan has asked that I not call them “election deniers,” so I am using a less objectionable description of “2020 election fantasy promoters.”

    Because you must have your insults.

    Well, Gary is a 2020 Election Fantasy Promoter, his fantasy is just the opposite of mine.

    Works for me.

    • #88
  29. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    What descriptive term would you use that fairly encompasses people who persist in promoting the fantasy that Biden fairly won the 2020 election?

    See, it does work.

    Just like those that persist in the fantasy that January 6 protest was an “Insurrection”.

    Gary is a January 6 Insurrection Fantasy Promoter.

    This is fun!

    • #89
  30. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Peggy Noonan has an excellent long column at the Wall Street Journal, first talking about David Letterman and Norman Lear about being true to yourself at https://www.wsj.com/articles/normal-republicans-stand-up-to-the-fringe-mccarthy-house-speaker-vote-lost-johnny-carson-letterman-lear-11672959501. The conclusion of the column is as follows:

    “The problem with the Freedom Caucus people is and always has been that they do not have the numbers to win, to dominate. America, a big, broad place, doesn’t like them. They represent a tendency within the party in which they are seceding from “the establishment,” “the swamp.” They think throwing snares and making Congress ungovernable is progress. It isn’t progress but nihilism, and it is connected to the endless loop of performance art that has taken over our politics. Once, you had to be a legislator and pass bills. Now you just have to play a legislator on media. You do TV hits, enact indignation, show you’re the kind of tough person who gets things done. You don’t have to do anything. If that is your business model—and these people are in business, and fundraising off this week’s spectacle—it isn’t bad for you if Republican leadership flounders (they’re squishes anyway) or the Democrats take over (you get to be the fiery opposition.) They tell themselves they are speaking truth to power, but real conservatism involves an ability to see and respect reality and to move constructively within it, nudging it in desirable directions.

    “Many of them are stupid and highly emotional, especially the men. Most have no historical depth. If they have little respect for institutions, it’s because they have no idea how institutions help us live as a nation, and they’ve never helped build one.

    “They aren’t serious and don’t have a plan, only an attitude and a talking point. They present themselves as freedom fighters, but that isn’t what they are. I would actually like Rep. Lauren Boebert if just once she would identify herself during roll call as the member from Late Weimar. Or Rep. Matt Gaetz insisted his name be recorded as The Devil’s Flying Monkey.

    “This fight has been going on since 2015, that epochal year when Mr. Trump rode down the elevator and, three months later, John Boehner stepped down as speaker, his leadership made impossible by the Freedom Caucus.

    “Someone is going to have to win this fight.

    “A hard-core group of 20 have so far stopped Mr. McCarthy, but 10 times that number supported him, including moderates, centrists, old- and new-style conservatives. The 200 have to find a way to re-establish their power and face down the fringe. They are being pushed around by a small minority, which once again is being painted as the face of the party, and the 200 need to push back, with or without Mr. McCarthy.

    “Flood the airwaves, take to the floor, go for broke. For eight years you’ve tried to humor and mollify. It hasn’t worked. Show America what normal, serious Republicans look like. It’s your party too. Normies, arise.”

    If you like that it would seem you have a taste for contentless invective and name-calling. 

    • #90
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