Reflections of a Weak Society?

 

Monday night, with a little over five minutes remaining in the 1st Quarter of the Bills-Bengals game, Buffalo safety Damar Hamlin suffered cardiac arrest. He was attended by both teams’ trainers and EMTs and was transported to the University of Cincinnati Medical Center where he remains in critical condition.

The overwhelming opinion of the media and everyone connected with the game is that it could not continue and the the NFL suspended play.

Is it a sign of respect or sign of weakness?

On March 22, 1989, Steve Tuttle of the St. Louis Blues and Uwe Krupp of the Buffalo Sabres crashed into the nets and, in a freak accident, one of Tuttle’s skates cut open the neck of Sabres’ goal tender Clint Malarchuk, severing his carotid artery and partially cutting his jugular vein. Malarchuck lost a liter and half of blood. The Blues resurfaced the ice and the game was finished.

In 1940, Cincinnati Reds backup catcher Willard Herschberger committed suicide in the team’s hotel in Boston. (I wrote about his story here.) After a team meeting the Reds played the next day and completed the road trip to Brooklyn to take on the Dodgers.

The only player to die on the field during a National Football League game was Chuck Hughes of the Detroit Lions. With 1:02 left in an October 1971 game at Tiger Stadium vs the Chicago Bears, the 28-year-old wide receiver collapsed on his way back to the huddle. He was pronounced dead at Henry Ford Hospital.

Were we tougher back then or were we just terrible people?

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  1. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Well, of course life goes on. No one is going to spend the rest of their life in bed. But as someone married to someone who experienced exactly what you described (someone having a fatal heart attack in the office next door), I’m glad everyone didn’t go back to work. My husband and another guy followed the ambulance to the hospital, and were there with the wife when the news came that her husband had passed. Some people stayed at work awaiting news; some went home.

    For everyone to have continued working would have been cavalier at best, cheapening a good man’s life. And a Dikensonial level of behavior on the part of the company.

    Annefy, of course I’m not saying that emotion should be suppressed or that continuing to provide aid should be squelched or that no one has any duty to aid the family even once the ambulance leaves the office. Of course. Yet the event ends and people do continue to work. Again, if it’s either-or, if it’s a choice between continuing on as normal or providing extraordinary aid then of course the aid should be provided. How often is it either-or? In any case, this Monday Night Football example wasn’t either-or.

    No one is claiming that you think work should continue at the cost of aid being provided. It’s a strawman.

    There were over 100 people at my husband’s work who had no part in providing aid (CPR, defib) and no part in going to the hospital to await news and render comfort. They stayed at work to await news, or they went home. For those who stayed at work, I’m pretty sure nothing got done.

    It happened on a Friday (something JY is still bitter about; he has said more than once that if he is going to die at his desk, he hope the good Lord takes him on a Monday morning). Everyone was back to work by Monday.

    I don’t understand what you’re criticizing my original comment about then. You start with “Well, of course life goes on. No one is going to spend the rest of their life in bed”. I wasn’t saying that, which is why I made my next comment which you referred to as a straw man.  So now what? 

    Could it be cavalier to simply go back to work when the immediate hubbub subsides? It could be, but not necessarily so. In fact I think that going back should be the default, with some exceptions.  

    • #91
  2. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Well, of course life goes on. No one is going to spend the rest of their life in bed. But as someone married to someone who experienced exactly what you described (someone having a fatal heart attack in the office next door), I’m glad everyone didn’t go back to work. My husband and another guy followed the ambulance to the hospital, and were there with the wife when the news came that her husband had passed. Some people stayed at work awaiting news; some went home.

    snip

    Annefy, of course I’m not saying that emotion should be suppressed or that continuing to provide aid should be squelched or that no one has any duty to aid the family even once the ambulance leaves the office. Of course. Yet the event ends and people do continue to work. Again, if it’s either-or, if it’s a choice between continuing on as normal or providing extraordinary aid then of course the aid should be provided. How often is it either-or? In any case, this Monday Night Football example wasn’t either-or.

    No one is claiming that you think work should continue at the cost of aid being provided. It’s a strawman.

    There were over 100 people at my husband’s work who had no part in providing aid (CPR, defib) and no part in going to the hospital to await news and render comfort. They stayed at work to await news, or they went home. For those who stayed at work, I’m pretty sure nothing got done.

    It happened on a Friday (something JY is still bitter about; he has said more than once that if he is going to die at his desk, he hope the good Lord takes him on a Monday morning). Everyone was back to work by Monday.

    I don’t understand what you’re criticizing my original comment about then. You start with “Well, of course life goes on. No one is going to spend the rest of their life in bed”. I wasn’t saying that, which is why I made my next comment which you referred to as a straw man. So now what?

    Could it be cavalier to simply go back to work when the immediate hubbub subsides? It could be, but not necessarily so. In fact I think that going back should be the default, with some exceptions.

    I was inspired to reply to your comment based upon the following, because I have personal experience with the exact situation you describe:

    “Yes, that’s what’s expected. I’m sitting here amongst my coworkers in their cubicles. If one happens to (God forbid) have a heart attack and die, yes I expect that we’d all get back to work once she was taken away by the ambulance. The show must go on. Life must go on.”

    • #92
  3. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Don’t know if this changes any opinions. It changed mine after my initial reaction which I described as mixed with my first comment (#13).  From what I understand the NFL had planned to continue playing but it was the players themselves that said no, players from both teams. 

    Look, they’re playing a game and a teammate and fellow athlete for all intents and purposes dies in front of their eyes. They watch a fury of events to resuscitate him, and you expect them to continue afterwards as if nothing happened?  No way. It’s a game. 

    • #93
  4. OldPhil Coolidge
    OldPhil
    @OldPhil

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    OldPhil (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    OldPhil (View Comment):

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    She (View Comment):

    I’m afraid I can’t quite bring myself to believe that whether or not a football game (FCS) is postponed or not is some sort of definitive commentary on society’s strength and robustness. Quite a few more consequential things going on, it looks like to me.

    At one time the NFL was played by the roughest, toughest Men. They loved America and celebrated Her. They also volunteered to go to war for Her.

    Now, the NFL is being infiltrated by pansies, kneelers, and chicks by force to take down the Men’s Only club.

    It most definitely is a commentary on Our society’s strength and robustness and it is showing just how weak We are becoming.

    This is pretty ridiculous. This wasn’t someone breaking a bone or tearing a ligament and being hauled off for treatment. A teammate almost dies on the field in front of you, gets CPR for 9 minutes, and you’re expected to play the game like nothing happened?

    C’mon, man.

    Yes, that’s what’s expected. I’m sitting here amongst my coworkers in their cubicles. If one happens to (God forbid) have a heart attack and die, yes I expect that we’d all get back to work once she was taken away by the ambulance. The show must go on. Life must go on.

    Now of course, if “going on” means that that the sick person doesn’t get adequate treatment, then we stop the show temporarily to provide treatment. Then the show starts up again.

    Yes this can be a traumatic thing for bystanders. Is going home and doing nothing better for them than staying and continuing to do their work? How far out does it go? I’m sure players on other teams knew this guy and knew of the incident – should their games have been halted too?

    I’ve read several replies on this thread recounting that exact event happening to several on here and they said people were sent home for the day. There were no other games going on, it was Monday night football.

    Oh ok, so that’s the way it is then. My mistake. No sense in discussing different responses or general principles which might be involved because some people went home in few instances and since there were no other games happening at the time.

    Just replied to your points.

    • #94
  5. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    OldPhil (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    OldPhil (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    OldPhil (View Comment):

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    She (View Comment):

    I’m afraid I can’t quite bring myself to believe that whether or not a football game (FCS) is postponed or not is some sort of definitive commentary on society’s strength and robustness. Quite a few more consequential things going on, it looks like to me.

    At one time the NFL was played by the roughest, toughest Men. They loved America and celebrated Her. They also volunteered to go to war for Her.

    Now, the NFL is being infiltrated by pansies, kneelers, and chicks by force to take down the Men’s Only club.

    It most definitely is a commentary on Our society’s strength and robustness and it is showing just how weak We are becoming.

    This is pretty ridiculous. This wasn’t someone breaking a bone or tearing a ligament and being hauled off for treatment. A teammate almost dies on the field in front of you, gets CPR for 9 minutes, and you’re expected to play the game like nothing happened?

    C’mon, man.

    Yes, that’s what’s expected. I’m sitting here amongst my coworkers in their cubicles. If one happens to (God forbid) have a heart attack and die, yes I expect that we’d all get back to work once she was taken away by the ambulance. The show must go on. Life must go on.

    Now of course, if “going on” means that that the sick person doesn’t get adequate treatment, then we stop the show temporarily to provide treatment. Then the show starts up again.

    Yes this can be a traumatic thing for bystanders. Is going home and doing nothing better for them than staying and continuing to do their work? How far out does it go? I’m sure players on other teams knew this guy and knew of the incident – should their games have been halted too?

    I’ve read several replies on this thread recounting that exact event happening to several on here and they said people were sent home for the day. There were no other games going on, it was Monday night football.

    Oh ok, so that’s the way it is then. My mistake. No sense in discussing different responses or general principles which might be involved because some people went home in few instances and since there were no other games happening at the time.

    Just replied to your pounts.

    Punts? Points? Pouts? I’ll freely cop to the first two plus any number of shortcomings, but I tend not to pout. ;D

     

    • #95
  6. OldPhil Coolidge
    OldPhil
    @OldPhil

    Manny (View Comment):

    Don’t know if this changes any opinions. It changed mine after my initial reaction which I described as mixed with my first comment (#13). From what I understand the NFL had planned to continue playing but it was the players themselves that said no, players from both teams.

    Look, they’re playing a game and a teammate and fellow athlete for all intents and purposes dies in front of their eyes. They watch a fury of events to resuscitate him, and you expect them to continue afterwards as if nothing happened? No way. It’s a game.

    This is the appropriate response. It’s a game that has to be played at the highest level, and these guys need to be at the peak of their mental and physical abilities to perform properly and avoid mistakes and additional injuries. They’re not just going back to their desks to update some spreadsheets or call customers.

    • #96
  7. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    I think I’ve read all the comments … there’s an elephant in the room that hasn’t been mentioned (or I missed it)

    Heart inflammation in young men is a known side effect of the jabs. In fact, it was known at the time of the trials. How common and how much of a threat will be determined if and when we get honest people in enough of a position of authority to make those important determinations. I see no indication that that is going to happen anytime soon.

    Until then, we have thousands and thousands of young men in the NFL who got jabbed as a condition of remaining on their team. And they, along with millions of spectators, witnessed a young, healthy player drop like a stone in front of their eyes. 

    Hopefully, there won’t be an autopsy. Hopefully, an accurate diagnosis will be made. Hopefully, people will believe it.

    Under normal circumstances, it’s appropriate for these young men to feel somewhat immortal. They’re young, and at the pinnacle of physical fitness. 

    I wonder what is going through those young men’s minds right now …

     

    • #97
  8. Charles Mark Member
    Charles Mark
    @CharlesMark

    https://edition.cnn.com/2023/01/03/football/christian-eriksen-cardiac-arrest-return-spt-intl/index.html

    I know my American friends love to diss soccer, but when something similar happened to a famous player in an international game, the match was rearranged for later the same day! 

    • #98
  9. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    OldPhil (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Don’t know if this changes any opinions. It changed mine after my initial reaction which I described as mixed with my first comment (#13). From what I understand the NFL had planned to continue playing but it was the players themselves that said no, players from both teams.

    Look, they’re playing a game and a teammate and fellow athlete for all intents and purposes dies in front of their eyes. They watch a fury of events to resuscitate him, and you expect them to continue afterwards as if nothing happened? No way. It’s a game.

    This is the appropriate response. It’s a game that has to be played at the highest level, and these guys need to be at the peak of their mental and physical abilities to perform properly and avoid mistakes and additional injuries. They’re not just going back to their desks to update some spreadsheets or call customers.

    Also it DOES NOT MATTER.  Not like spreadsheets do, man.  Not like spreadsheets do.

    • #99
  10. OldPhil Coolidge
    OldPhil
    @OldPhil

    BDB (View Comment):

    OldPhil (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Don’t know if this changes any opinions. It changed mine after my initial reaction which I described as mixed with my first comment (#13). From what I understand the NFL had planned to continue playing but it was the players themselves that said no, players from both teams.

    Look, they’re playing a game and a teammate and fellow athlete for all intents and purposes dies in front of their eyes. They watch a fury of events to resuscitate him, and you expect them to continue afterwards as if nothing happened? No way. It’s a game.

    This is the appropriate response. It’s a game that has to be played at the highest level, and these guys need to be at the peak of their mental and physical abilities to perform properly and avoid mistakes and additional injuries. They’re not just going back to their desks to update some spreadsheets or call customers.

    Aslo it DOES NOT MATTER.

    Then we agree, it’s just a game?

    • #100
  11. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Under normal circumstances, it’s appropriate for these young men to feel somewhat immortal. They’re young, and at the pinnacle of physical fitness.

    I wonder what is going through those young men’s minds right now …

    Yes, that’s kind of what I was suggesting with the national “trauma” explanation.

    Under normal circumstances they might all have wanted to continue playing. But how many of them are thinking “I might be next”?

    • #101
  12. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Charles Mark (View Comment):

    https://edition.cnn.com/2023/01/03/football/christian-eriksen-cardiac-arrest-return-spt-intl/index.html

    I know my American friends love to diss soccer, but when something similar happened to a famous player in an international game, the match was rearranged for later the same day!

    Because just like everything else in soccer, nobody cared.

    • #102
  13. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    BDB (View Comment):

    OldPhil (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Don’t know if this changes any opinions. It changed mine after my initial reaction which I described as mixed with my first comment (#13). From what I understand the NFL had planned to continue playing but it was the players themselves that said no, players from both teams.

    Look, they’re playing a game and a teammate and fellow athlete for all intents and purposes dies in front of their eyes. They watch a fury of events to resuscitate him, and you expect them to continue afterwards as if nothing happened? No way. It’s a game.

    This is the appropriate response. It’s a game that has to be played at the highest level, and these guys need to be at the peak of their mental and physical abilities to perform properly and avoid mistakes and additional injuries. They’re not just going back to their desks to update some spreadsheets or call customers.

    Also it DOES NOT MATTER. Not like spreadsheets do, man. Not like spreadsheets do.

    In my mind, when someone at the next cubicle drops dead, there’s an immediacy that hits you. I can see why people might take off work for the rest of the day. That guy was just poking away at his keyboard and CLUNK!

    But in a football game, there are frequently injuries. It kind of comes with the territory. Not this severe, but it happens. So . . . it would seem less likely that other players would “take off work” for the rest of the day. Especially players on the other team. Or the whole league.

    There’s some other psychology at work here, and the severity of the injury doesn’t seem to explain it.

    • #103
  14. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    OldPhil (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    OldPhil (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Don’t know if this changes any opinions. It changed mine after my initial reaction which I described as mixed with my first comment (#13). From what I understand the NFL had planned to continue playing but it was the players themselves that said no, players from both teams.

    Look, they’re playing a game and a teammate and fellow athlete for all intents and purposes dies in front of their eyes. They watch a fury of events to resuscitate him, and you expect them to continue afterwards as if nothing happened? No way. It’s a game.

    This is the appropriate response. It’s a game that has to be played at the highest level, and these guys need to be at the peak of their mental and physical abilities to perform properly and avoid mistakes and additional injuries. They’re not just going back to their desks to update some spreadsheets or call customers.

    Aslo it DOES NOT MATTER.

    Then we agree, it’s just a game?

    Oh, absolutely.  I’ve said that here.

    • #104
  15. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    During one of Sunday’s games, why did a healthy football player, Damar Hamlin, collapse right after tackling a member of the other team?

    He was not the man being tackled. (The Gateway Pundit had a video blip of the play that was involved right before this player collapsed.)

    Prior to 2021, 29 athletes a year died “unexpectedly.” According to statistician Ed Dowd, currently we are lucky if we get thru one single month without at least 29 athletes dying “unexpectedly.”

    SNIP

    Neither football players or airline pilots consume fentanyl right before being involved in their life’s work. So the argument that these deaths are due to some type of drug epidemic is not a decent one.

    So what experimental vaccine program came about during FY 2021 that had never occurred before?

    And why did my local grammar school put up a defib machine in Spring 2022, on an outside wall where students and parents could access it? This happened right before the vaxxes were made available for children.

    You put up a graphic from Gaad Saad, which read: “Every cardiac arrest is now blamed on the vaccine. Every weather event is due to climate change. Every case of autism is due to the MMR vaccine. Every terrorist named Ahmad was fighting against the Zionist occupation. Every mass shooting is due to the existence of the 2nd Amendment.”

    As far as cardiac arrest, no that is not at all the case.

    There is something statisticians use to understand any phenomena that occurs as far as numbers of incidents.

    This is called examining the “excess” numbers.

    A geologist I was friends with had garnered both positive fame and notoriety due to his noticing that there was always an excess of lost pets being reported above the norm, in local newspapers, right before an earthquake. Excess number considerations occurs across many various fields of endeavor.

    The concerns about the cardiac situation has occurred because Dr Peter McCullough, an exceptionally skillful cardiac surgeon, began to notice significant numbers of myocarditis among the 16 to 49 year old crowd. Numbers that were above the norm, especially for anyone under the age of 35.

    Statistician Ed Dowd noticed the uptick in fatalities in 2021 among the 18 to 40 plus age group – again excess numbers above the norm. (The demographic he was dealing with were well paid workers, who usually are much healthier then the slacker types).

    Yes there have always been athletes in professional sports who die unexpectedly. Again, that number was on an annual basis, around 29 individuals.

    But the steep rise in the excess numbers of deaths among athletes from 2021 on, as compared to years prior to Jan 1st 2021, is remarkable.

    CarolJoy- please try to get any, really any, basic facts correct in your posts……Dr McC is not “an exceptionally skillful cardiac surgeon” by any measure- mainly b/c he isn’t a cardiac surgeon….

    addendum- you have made the same incorrect claim elsewhere on Ricochet and back then I let you know he wasn’t a surgeon, but for some reason you like to repeat incorrect information….

    • #105
  16. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Charles Mark (View Comment):
    I know my American friends love to diss soccer…

    Swedish, ja?

    • #106
  17. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    OldPhil (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Don’t know if this changes any opinions. It changed mine after my initial reaction which I described as mixed with my first comment (#13). From what I understand the NFL had planned to continue playing but it was the players themselves that said no, players from both teams.

    Look, they’re playing a game and a teammate and fellow athlete for all intents and purposes dies in front of their eyes. They watch a fury of events to resuscitate him, and you expect them to continue afterwards as if nothing happened? No way. It’s a game.

    This is the appropriate response. It’s a game that has to be played at the highest level, and these guys need to be at the peak of their mental and physical abilities to perform properly and avoid mistakes and additional injuries. They’re not just going back to their desks to update some spreadsheets or call customers.

    Hey! I resemble that! Updating spreadsheets and calling customers (or vendors) takes concentration too. It’s important work. It’s meaningful work. As is football. 

    This isn’t Brett Favre playing a game a day after his father died – I think most would have understood him sitting that one out, but the fact that he didn’t sit it out made him admirable. Admirable, not heartless. This Hamlin accident isn’t even that, though. These are coworkers and friends – who still have an important job to do. Doing that job doesn’t preclude mourning or reverence or direct aid. 

    As far as not being able to perform in the face of a jarring accident? Well I think that’s the point at hand. I expect people to be able to perform in these circumstances, with some exceptions. Sounds like that isn’t the consensus more broadly. Has something changed? I think it has. Is that change for the better? I don’t know. 

    • #107
  18. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    OldPhil (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Don’t know if this changes any opinions. It changed mine after my initial reaction which I described as mixed with my first comment (#13). From what I understand the NFL had planned to continue playing but it was the players themselves that said no, players from both teams.

    Look, they’re playing a game and a teammate and fellow athlete for all intents and purposes dies in front of their eyes. They watch a fury of events to resuscitate him, and you expect them to continue afterwards as if nothing happened? No way. It’s a game.

    This is the appropriate response. It’s a game that has to be played at the highest level, and these guys need to be at the peak of their mental and physical abilities to perform properly and avoid mistakes and additional injuries. They’re not just going back to their desks to update some spreadsheets or call customers.

    Hey! I resemble that! Updating spreadsheets and calling customers (or vendors) takes concentration too. It’s important work. It’s meaningful work. As is football.

    This isn’t Brett Favre playing a game a day after his father died – I think most would have understood him sitting that one out, but the fact that he didn’t sit it out made him admirable. Admirable, not heartless. This Hamlin accident isn’t even that, though. These are coworkers and friends – who still have an important job to do. Doing that job doesn’t preclude mourning or reverence or direct aid.

    As far as not being able to perform in the face of a jarring accident? Well I think that’s the point at hand. I expect people to be able to perform in these circumstances, with some exceptions. Sounds like that isn’t the consensus more broadly. Has something changed? I think it has. Is that change for the better? I don’t know.

    I have no problem with suspending the game and if individual players need time, so be it. Closing down the whole league is another story.

    • #108
  19. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    OldPhil (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    OldPhil (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Don’t know if this changes any opinions. It changed mine after my initial reaction which I described as mixed with my first comment (#13). From what I understand the NFL had planned to continue playing but it was the players themselves that said no, players from both teams.

    Look, they’re playing a game and a teammate and fellow athlete for all intents and purposes dies in front of their eyes. They watch a fury of events to resuscitate him, and you expect them to continue afterwards as if nothing happened? No way. It’s a game.

    This is the appropriate response. It’s a game that has to be played at the highest level, and these guys need to be at the peak of their mental and physical abilities to perform properly and avoid mistakes and additional injuries. They’re not just going back to their desks to update some spreadsheets or call customers.

    Aslo it DOES NOT MATTER.

    Then we agree, it’s just a game?

    But what is being asked and of whom? Don’t mourn? Don’t revere? Don’t aid? None of  that is being asked. 

    I might respond, “dude, it’s just a game” if someone were to ask me to risk death to score the next touchdown in my backyard goof off game with my kids as if scoring the touchdown had any impact on anything. Except that professional touchdowns do have impact from financial to emotional. Which is why these guys are well aware of the real physical risks they face yet they do it anyway for appropriate compensation. 

    • #109
  20. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    There’s something bugging me about the “it’s just a game” argument, but I can’t quite articulate what it is and I have some work I have to get done. Maybe I’ll come back after I’ve updated my spreadsheet in my cubicle and try to sort it out with all of your help. 

    • #110
  21. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    There’s something bugging me about the “it’s just a game” argument, but I can’t quite articulate what it is and I have some work I have to get done. Maybe I’ll come back after I’ve updated my spreadsheet in my cubicle and try to sort it out with all of your help.

    I’ll bet it’s the fact that while the “game” aspect is relevant to this specific example, it’s not informative in the larger question about pansification.

    • #111
  22. DonG (CAGW is a Scam) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Scam)
    @DonG

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):
    And the NHL has been cracking down (well, as much as it can) on fighting. Still happens, but one doesn’t see the bench-clearing brawls of earlier days. Though there is still the occasional “line brawl.”

    Fighting is rare these days and with helmets+visors and untaped hands, it is really just an exercise in breaking fingers.  When a player gets $100,000 per game, the owners demand the players are protected by rules. 

    • #112
  23. Jim McConnell Member
    Jim McConnell
    @JimMcConnell

    At the independent living retirement community where I once lived, the dining room was located in an atrium open to the third floor. One day at lunch, paramedics wheeled a deceased resident in a body bag along the second floor to the elevator and then past the dining room to the exit.

    Everyone continued eating lunch while discussing who the late resident might be.

    At my age, we come to expect such things… but not for twenty-somethings.

    • #113
  24. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    There’s something bugging me about the “it’s just a game” argument, but I can’t quite articulate what it is and I have some work I have to get done. Maybe I’ll come back after I’ve updated my spreadsheet in my cubicle and try to sort it out with all of your help.

    You must be a reincarnation of a Roman Senator who liked to frequent the gladiatorial games. Distant memory of when fans weren’t weaklings?  :-P

    • #114
  25. Doctor Robert Member
    Doctor Robert
    @DoctorRobert

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Like Adam Smith’s 100,000 Chinamen being wiped out by a calamity vs the spectre of one’s own little finger being lopped off at dawn, it is entirely reasonable for people to repspond to a combination of not only severity, but also proximity — even virtual (if not virtuous) proximity.

    We are not expected to react to news over there as powerfully as we react to the same news over here.

    Came in to work one day to see the World Trade Center towers collapsing on the break room TV.

    Traumatic. I didn’t go home for the day, even though I just watched 3,000 people die. It was hard to focus on work, but I worked anyway.

    Maybe it’s just in my nature, and work is a nice diversion from reality’s frequent harshness. I really wonder how many players WANT to play but their team owners are trying to show how sensitive and respectful they are by cancelling “work” for that week.

    Great point, Drew.  I saw patients that day, at least those who came in.

    • #115
  26. OldPhil Coolidge
    OldPhil
    @OldPhil

    I’ll bow out of this discussion now, because I’ve completely lost track of the issue and of who’s arguing for which position. See you elsewhere . . .

    • #116
  27. Charles Mark Member
    Charles Mark
    @CharlesMark

    BDB (View Comment):

    Charles Mark (View Comment):
    I know my American friends love to diss soccer…

    Swedish, ja?

    Hair too dark, legs too short. 

    • #117
  28. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    BDB (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):

    There’s something bugging me about the “it’s just a game” argument, but I can’t quite articulate what it is and I have some work I have to get done. Maybe I’ll come back after I’ve updated my spreadsheet in my cubicle and try to sort it out with all of your help.

    I’ll bet it’s the fact that while the “game” aspect is relevant to this specific example, it’s not informative in the larger question about pansification.

    Maybe that too, but I think it’s something more along the lines of what is meaningful in life, or about what the limitations of that kind of argument are. Do most things mean not much in the scheme of things? Sure, a game which doesn’t produce much isn’t worth any real risk of death; a game which generates millions of dollars for players, owners, support industries? What about a game that brings joy and meaning (whether or not it should) to millions? What about the duty 

    I think I’m also thinking about it in relation to all we see happening politically. “It’s just politics” so it’s not worth fretting or even talking about it if it causes social discomfort to do so. Yet the Founders risked their lives, their fortunes, and their honor for seemingly far less than the abuses we’ve seen. Economic disaster, plundering the public fisc, growing authoritarianism, attacks on free and fair elections. I don’t believe J6 was insurrection and I argued against using that terminology starting on 1/6/2021. However, when do things become important enough? When the house is burning and coming down around us? 

    It’s just x, it’s not important enough to risk y. Or, it’s x, so just y doesn’t matter. In this particular case I think the second sentence is the operable one. I don’t think it works without adding terms which are not actually applicable in this case. 

    I don’t know, there’s many things swirling around the old noggin, and I really do have a spreadsheet to update. I’ll keep noodling though. 

    • #118
  29. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Well, I care so little about sports that I’m not going to debate whether they matter — they certainly don’t to me, and certainly not any particular match.

    Even so, peoples’ right to enjoy sports or reading a book or going to church is certainly worth fighting for.

    • #119
  30. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    BDB (View Comment):

    Well, I care so little about sports that I’m not going to debate whether they matter — they certainly don’t to me, and certainly not any particular match.

    Even so, peoples’ right to enjoy sports or reading a book or going to church is certainly worth fighting for.

    I’ve even been known to read a book in church while watching a game on my phone.  I will definitely fight for that.

    • #120
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