The Final Numbers from Arizona (13 Days After Election Edition)

 

You guys: On Monday, November 21, all counties in the state of Arizona finally finished counting the Election Day votes. And it only took them 13 days. In fact, two of the contests were so close that automatic recounts were triggered. Those won’t begin until after December 5 … another 14 days away.

Want to restore trust in the process, Arizona? Reform the bad election laws. For the last time, let’s go to the big board…

Governor

Candidate Percentage Vote Total
Kari Lake (R) 49.7% 1,270,774
√ Katie Hobbs (D) 50.3% 1,287,890

U.S. Senator (race called for Sen. Kelly, Friday, Nov. 11)

Candidate Percentage Vote Total
Blake Masters (R) 46.5% 1,190,643
√ Mark Kelly (D) 51.4% 1,315,771

Secretary of State (race called for Adrian Fontes, Friday, Nov. 11)

Candidate Percentage Vote Total
Mark Finchem (R) 47.6% 1,200,411
√ Adrian Fontes (D) 52.4% 1,320,618

Attorney General

Candidate Percentage Vote Total
Abe Hamadeh (R) 50.0% 1,254,102
* Kris Mayes (D) 50.0% 1,254,612

Treasurer (race called for Kimberly Yee, Saturday, Nov. 12)

Candidate Percentage Vote Total
√ Kimberly Yee (R) 55.7% 1,390,135
Martin Quezada (D) 44.3% 1,107,036

Superintendent of Public Instruction

Candidate Percentage Vote Total
* Tom Horne (R) 50.2% 1,255,977
Kathy Hoffman (D) 49.8% 1,247,009

None of the percentages shifted over the past week. Of course, these numbers are unofficial until certified on December 5. But we’re not out of the weeds yet!

An automatic recount is triggered when opposing candidates finish within 0.5 percent of the total votes. This applies to two races: Attorney General and Superintendent of Public Instruction. In the first, Kris Mayes (D) defeated Abe Hamadeh (R) by a mere 510 votes. In the second, Tom Horne (R) defeated incumbent Kathy Hoffman (D) by 8,968 votes.

Also, Arizona’s current Attorney General, Mark Brnovich (R), has demanded that Maricopa County officials provide a report on the tabulation machine problems on Election Day. By November 28, the county must detail the specific problems related to the printers at each polling location and how poll workers were trained.

Please note that your humble author sat next to Mark Brnovich in government class at Shadow Mountain High School. We would pass National Review issues back and forth, and drive our liberal teacher crazy with our anti-communist tirades. At the time, I worked as a highly acclaimed bag boy at Safeway. One afternoon, after we annoyed the teacher in class, he came into the store and bought a 12-pack of Meister Brau (a very, very cheap beer). After that, we called him “Meister Brau”; he didn’t like that either.

P.S. I worked with AG candidate Hamadeh at the Goldwater Institute, and AG candidate Mayes was my editor at Arizona State’s student newspaper. Knowing me is apparently a job requirement.

Previous Arizona Election Posts:

The Wednesday Wrap-up

The Tuesday Wrap-up

The Monday Wrap-up

The Sunday Wrap-up

The Saturday Wrap-up

The Friday Wrap-up

Published in Elections
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  1. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    I dont understand why its even controversial. I think it’s been proven beyond any doubt that the 2020 election was stolen. The left even agrees with Donald Trump on this point.

    No, it has not been proven beyond any doubt that the 2020 election was stolen.  In fact, it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that while there were the usual shenanigans, there is no fraud shown sufficient that it would have changed the result in any state, per former Attorney General William Barr.

    The people who disputed the 2020 election lost all statewide elections in the five battleground states of Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin except for Ron Johnson who was running against a Bernie Sanders supporter and Walker who is going into a runoff.

     

    • #151
  2. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

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    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

     

    r.

     

    In 2016 Arizona had a Republican Governor and two Republican Senator. Now after the 2022 election, for the first time since 1950, Arizona will have a Democrat Governor and two Democrat Senators. (We will also have a Democrat Secretary of State, and a Democrat Attorney General too.)

    Thank you Donald Trump.

    Correlation does require causation.

    My recollection is that you hated Trump long before “election denying” was a thing. So why did you hate Trump back then, huh? It’s a very convenient excuse, but just admit that it wasn’t the main reason for you.

    I disliked Trump before the 2020 election and voted for a Democrat for President for the first time in 48 years.  But the Trump Big Lie and his attempted coup sealed my opposition to Trump.

    • #152
  3. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    I dont understand why its even controversial. I think it’s been proven beyond any doubt that the 2020 election was stolen. The left even agrees with Donald Trump on this point.

    No, it has not been proven beyond any doubt that the 2020 election was stolen. In fact, it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that while there were the usual shenanigans, there is no fraud shown sufficient that it would have changed the result in any state, per former Attorney General William Barr.

    The people who disputed the 2020 election lost all statewide elections in the five battleground states of Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin except for Ron Johnson who was running against a Bernie Sanders supporter and Walker who is going into a runoff.

     

    That doesn’t mean they were wrong. The voters could have chosen poorly, as they seem likely to do more and more.

    • #153
  4. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

     

    r.

     

    In 2016 Arizona had a Republican Governor and two Republican Senator. Now after the 2022 election, for the first time since 1950, Arizona will have a Democrat Governor and two Democrat Senators. (We will also have a Democrat Secretary of State, and a Democrat Attorney General too.)

    Thank you Donald Trump.

    Correlation does require causation.

    My recollection is that you hated Trump long before “election denying” was a thing. So why did you hate Trump back then, huh? It’s a very convenient excuse, but just admit that it wasn’t the main reason for you.

    I disliked Trump before the 2020 election and voted for a Democrat for President for the first time in 48 years. But the Trump Big Lie and his attempted coup sealed my opposition to Trump.

    Sealed you as a Democrat.

    • #154
  5. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

     

    r.

     

    In 2016 Arizona had a Republican Governor and two Republican Senator. Now after the 2022 election, for the first time since 1950, Arizona will have a Democrat Governor and two Democrat Senators. (We will also have a Democrat Secretary of State, and a Democrat Attorney General too.)

    Thank you Donald Trump.

    Correlation does require causation.

    My recollection is that you hated Trump long before “election denying” was a thing. So why did you hate Trump back then, huh? It’s a very convenient excuse, but just admit that it wasn’t the main reason for you.

    I disliked Trump before the 2020 election and voted for a Democrat for President for the first time in 48 years. But the Trump Big Lie and his attempted coup sealed my opposition to Trump.

    Sealed you as a Democrat.

    I voted a straight Republican ticket (with the one exception of Tom Horne) in the last election, except if the Republican was a Trump Endorsed Election Disputer.  All of those Republicans won.

    • #155
  6. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    I dont understand why its even controversial. I think it’s been proven beyond any doubt that the 2020 election was stolen. The left even agrees with Donald Trump on this point.

    No, it has not been proven beyond any doubt that the 2020 election was stolen. In fact, it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that while there were the usual shenanigans, there is no fraud shown sufficient that it would have changed the result in any state, per former Attorney General William Barr.

    The people who disputed the 2020 election lost all statewide elections in the five battleground states of Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin except for Ron Johnson who was running against a Bernie Sanders supporter and Walker who is going into a runoff.

     

    That doesn’t mean they were wrong. The voters could have chosen poorly, as they seem likely to do more and more.

    Well, you can lose with Trump or win with DeSantis.

    • #156
  7. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

     

    r.

     

    In 2016 Arizona had a Republican Governor and two Republican Senator. Now after the 2022 election, for the first time since 1950, Arizona will have a Democrat Governor and two Democrat Senators. (We will also have a Democrat Secretary of State, and a Democrat Attorney General too.)

    Thank you Donald Trump.

    Correlation does require causation.

    My recollection is that you hated Trump long before “election denying” was a thing. So why did you hate Trump back then, huh? It’s a very convenient excuse, but just admit that it wasn’t the main reason for you.

    I disliked Trump before the 2020 election and voted for a Democrat for President for the first time in 48 years. But the Trump Big Lie and his attempted coup sealed my opposition to Trump.

    Sealed you as a Democrat.

    I voted a straight Republican ticket (with the one exception of Tom Horne) in the last election, except if the Republican was a Trump Endorsed Election Disputer. All of those Republicans won.

    You helped turned Arizona blue. I kept my state red. Cheers.

    • #157
  8. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    I dont understand why its even controversial. I think it’s been proven beyond any doubt that the 2020 election was stolen. The left even agrees with Donald Trump on this point.

    No, it has not been proven beyond any doubt that the 2020 election was stolen. In fact, it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that while there were the usual shenanigans, there is no fraud shown sufficient that it would have changed the result in any state, per former Attorney General William Barr.

    The people who disputed the 2020 election lost all statewide elections in the five battleground states of Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin except for Ron Johnson who was running against a Bernie Sanders supporter and Walker who is going into a runoff.

    That doesn’t mean they were wrong. The voters could have chosen poorly, as they seem likely to do more and more.

    Well, you can lose with Trump or win with DeSantis.

    Since winning isn’t one of your principles, why do you use it to threaten me with supporting what you want? It won’t work on me. 2024 is irrelevant. 2020 and 2022 saw to that . There will be no soft landing and no going back to what was before. That is the outcome of empowering authoritarians. I can have your type of principles, too, and vote against anyone who attacked Trump. That is how the game is played, isn’t it.

    • #158
  9. Tikhon Olmstead Inactive
    Tikhon Olmstead
    @TikhonOlmstead

    It’s late in the game for this comment; but I hate to say, I expected this outcome. I hoped for the best but prepared for the worst.

    Republicans as a team (and I voted a straight R ticket) can’t seem to get out of their own way. Wait, did I say “team”? That seems to be the problem, actually.

    Setting aside unanswered election questions, Republicans seem unable to unify around a vision and mission like the ideologues on the left who continue to crystalize a pure “gospel.” They rally around it and use it as a lever for strategy. I think this leads them to be dishonest and at times, wicked, having an ends-justifies-means ethic.

    But with signals of lack of teamsmanship like Trump calling DeSantis names, Kari setting herself against McCainites–we should *expect* to lose elections. We should expect not to be attractive to the squishy middle voters.

    Election shenanigans aside, we have not had winners in the pure sense. A winning posture is totally achievable, and so are beating-the-cheat results if we got our act together.

    I get the sense that Republican candidates are of a few types: (1) A species of Republican with superior policies and plans but an inferior strength that seems more brittle than durable, and tends to be mouthy at the wrong times; (2) Republicans who play the game and say the right words but seem to have lost track of their spine; (3) outright pretenders who game the public. 

    • #159
  10. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    I dont understand why its even controversial. I think it’s been proven beyond any doubt that the 2020 election was stolen. The left even agrees with Donald Trump on this point.

    No, it has not been proven beyond any doubt that the 2020 election was stolen. In fact, it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that while there were the usual shenanigans, there is no fraud shown sufficient that it would have changed the result in any state, per former Attorney General William Barr.

    The people who disputed the 2020 election lost all statewide elections in the five battleground states of Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin except for Ron Johnson who was running against a Bernie Sanders supporter and Walker who is going into a runoff.

     

    The cognitive dissonance is strong in the making of that statement. 

    • #160
  11. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Tikhon Olmstead (View Comment):

    It’s late in the game for this comment; but I hate to say, I expected this outcome. I hoped for the best but prepared for the worst.

    Republicans as a team (and I voted a straight R ticket) can’t seem to get out of their own way. Wait, did I say “team”? That seems to be the problem, actually.

    Setting aside unanswered election questions, Republicans seem unable to unify around a vision and mission like the ideologues on the left who continue to crystalize a pure “gospel.” They rally around it and use it as a lever for strategy. I think this leads them to be dishonest and at times, wicked, having an ends-justifies-means ethic.

    But with signals of lack of teamsmanship like Trump calling DeSantis names, Kari setting herself against McCainites–we should *expect* to lose elections. We should expect not to be attractive to the squishy middle voters.

    Election shenanigans aside, we have not had winners in the pure sense. A winning posture is totally achievable, and so are beating-the-cheat results if we got our act together.

    I get the sense that Republican candidates are of a few types: (1) A species of Republican with superior policies and plans but an inferior strength that seems more brittle than durable, and tends to be mouthy at the wrong times; (2) Republicans who play the game and say the right words but seem to have lost track of their spine; (3) outright pretenders who game the public.

    I agree with you with one small caveat. 

    The Republicans who ran as conservatives but did not involve themselves with disputing the 2020 election by and large won.  DeSantis won by almost 20 points.  Rubio won by 16 points.  Abbott won his third term.  Republicans who are focused on the future won.  Republicans who were focused on the past such as the 2020 election lost, or at least had their margin of victory decreased by 5%.

    • #161
  12. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Tikhon Olmstead (View Comment):

    It’s late in the game for this comment; but I hate to say, I expected this outcome. I hoped for the best but prepared for the worst.

    Republicans as a team (and I voted a straight R ticket) can’t seem to get out of their own way. Wait, did I say “team”? That seems to be the problem, actually.

    Setting aside unanswered election questions, Republicans seem unable to unify around a vision and mission like the ideologues on the left who continue to crystalize a pure “gospel.” They rally around it and use it as a lever for strategy. I think this leads them to be dishonest and at times, wicked, having an ends-justifies-means ethic.

    But with signals of lack of teamsmanship like Trump calling DeSantis names, Kari setting herself against McCainites–we should *expect* to lose elections. We should expect not to be attractive to the squishy middle voters.

    Election shenanigans aside, we have not had winners in the pure sense. A winning posture is totally achievable, and so are beating-the-cheat results if we got our act together.

    I get the sense that Republican candidates are of a few types: (1) A species of Republican with superior policies and plans but an inferior strength that seems more brittle than durable, and tends to be mouthy at the wrong times; (2) Republicans who play the game and say the right words but seem to have lost track of their spine; (3) outright pretenders who game the public.

    I agree with you with one small caveat.

    The Republicans who ran as conservatives but did not involve themselves with disputing the 2020 election by and large won. DeSantis won by almost 20 points. Rubio won by 16 points. Abbott won his third term. Republicans who are focused on the future won. Republicans who were focused on the past such as the 2020 election lost, or at least had their margin of victory decreased by 5%.

    DeSantis and Rubio do not support your argument. They won because of DeSantis performance as governor and it had nothing to do with your theory. 

    • #162
  13. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Tikhon Olmstead (View Comment):

    It’s late in the game for this comment; but I hate to say, I expected this outcome. I hoped for the best but prepared for the worst.

    Republicans as a team (and I voted a straight R ticket) can’t seem to get out of their own way. Wait, did I say “team”? That seems to be the problem, actually.

    Setting aside unanswered election questions, Republicans seem unable to unify around a vision and mission like the ideologues on the left who continue to crystalize a pure “gospel.” They rally around it and use it as a lever for strategy. I think this leads them to be dishonest and at times, wicked, having an ends-justifies-means ethic.

    But with signals of lack of teamsmanship like Trump calling DeSantis names, Kari setting herself against McCainites–we should *expect* to lose elections. We should expect not to be attractive to the squishy middle voters.

    Election shenanigans aside, we have not had winners in the pure sense. A winning posture is totally achievable, and so are beating-the-cheat results if we got our act together.

    I get the sense that Republican candidates are of a few types: (1) A species of Republican with superior policies and plans but an inferior strength that seems more brittle than durable, and tends to be mouthy at the wrong times; (2) Republicans who play the game and say the right words but seem to have lost track of their spine; (3) outright pretenders who game the public.

    I agree with you with one small caveat.

    The Republicans who ran as conservatives but did not involve themselves with disputing the 2020 election by and large won. DeSantis won by almost 20 points. Rubio won by 16 points. Abbott won his third term. Republicans who are focused on the future won. Republicans who were focused on the past such as the 2020 election lost, or at least had their margin of victory decreased by 5%.

    DeSantis and Rubio do not support your argument. They won because of DeSantis performance as governor and it had nothing to do with your theory.

    Twenty points in Florida. So? Does anyone think DeSantis can win Oregon, California, New York, Massachusetts? I’ve sent him money already and will likely send more, but he won’t have a lock on the nation-wide vote. It will be close in a few states with a lot of Electoral College votes. And with gutless, quarter-wit repubs denying security issues at the ballot box, it will be even harder than it should be. 

    • #163
  14. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Kimberly Yee was pro-Trump in 2020 and she seconded his nomination. [snip] The top four statewide Republicans who Trump endorsed who were overt Election Disputers, all got less than 50.00% of the vote.

    If [snip] Disputer.

    There are plenty of other choices than Trump (or DJTJ). DeSantis is great as are Abbott, Youngkin, and Tim Scott. All of them supported Trump in 2016 and 2020. All of them opposed his second impeachment. All of them repeat Republican nostrums about Election Integrity. But none of them is an Election Disputer, so they aren’t writing off 5+% of the vote.

    If you fail to vote for “election deniers,” you let the Marxist Dems win seats and even a house in Congress.

    The moral of the story is that unless you live in a R+10 state or district, don’t nominate Election Disputers. Otherwise, the college educated suburban types will refuse to vote for the “Republican” or will find the Democrat to be the lesser of two evils.

    Come on, Gary. “College educated suburban types” are far more motivated by abortion. And that puts them in the Dimocrat column to start with. You’re just running out in front of the crowd that’s already marching and yelling “Follow me!” again. They don’t even notice you there.

    Well, Arizona’s Kimberly Yee is staunchly Pro-Life, and she won a 55.7% landslide while the four statewide Republicans all could not break 50.0% due to being election disputers.

    You still don’t understand how little State Treasurer has to do with damn near everything?

    I understand that. She is the fifth highest race in the state after Senator, Governor, Secretary of State and Attorney General. However the only difference between her and the Republican candidates for those offices is that they all disputed Biden’s Election victory to get Trump’s endorsement. So the distinction is revealing. She won a 55.7% landslide and they all lost.

    Incidently, the most conservative Governor in the last 50 years was two term winner Doug Ducey. His position before being a two term Governor? Um, State Treasurer.

    Dems own your state.

    In 2016 Arizona had a Republican Governor and two Republican Senator. Now after the 2022 election, for the first time since 1950, Arizona will have a Democrat Governor and two Democrat Senators. (We will also have a Democrat Secretary of State, and a Democrat Attorney General too.)

    Thank you Donald Trump.

    Why are you thanking Trump when you voted that way… Can’t you own your own choices ? You helped your state go blue.

    But he sometimes acts like it was him alone who did it.

    • #164
  15. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    My goodness. I am now labeled as a Marxist sympathizer. And people objected which I called Election Disputers “Election Deniers.”

    Here are the facts. If you nominate Trump, or someone who is a Trump Big Lie Election Disputer, you are giving away 5+% of the vote. If you are in a ruby red district, or state, you can afford to do that. But if you live in a competative district or state, that 5+% can be the difference between winning and losing.

    Kimberly Yee was pro-Trump in 2020 and she seconded his nomination. While she was not an overt Election Disputer, she expressed Republican nostrums about Election Integrity. She is Pro-Life, Pro-Gun, Lower Taxes, Less Regulations, Anti-ESG Republican. Trump did not endorse in her race, as it was the fifth highest statewide race. She won 55.7% fo the vote. The top four statewide Republicans who Trump endorsed who were overt Election Disputers, all got less than 50.00% of the vote.

    If you live in a R+10 district or state, you can afford to be a Trump Big Lie Election Disputer. But if your state or district is R+5 or less, you will likely lose if you are a Trump Big Lie Election Disputer.

    [snip]

    If you fail to vote for “election deniers,” you let the Marxist Dems win seats and even a house in Congress.

    The moral of the story is that unless you live in a R+10 state or district, don’t nominate Election Disputers. Otherwise, the college educated suburban types will refuse to vote for the “Republican” or will find the Democrat to be the lesser of two evils.

    In MI-3 and WA-3, Election Disputers won the Republican Primaries, only to lose to Democrats in the general election. We really could have used those two additional votes in Congress, but Trump had to oppose them in the primary.

    I will vote as I please without regard to the silly sensibilities of others. I will not be extorted into voting against my wishes.

    Gary has some very odd cognitive dissonances. Such as, claiming he likes Trump’s policies but won’t vote for people who Trump endorses for at least in part having the same policies.

    Does he ever think about what he’d actually get if those non-Trump-endorsed people he would vote for WON? I don’t see how.

    He clearly has only first-level thinking going on, if even that.

    I refused to vote for people who disputed the 2020 election results to be endorsed by Trump.

    You chose Democrat leadership. Enjoy it.

    Gary is in a position to avoid the consequences of his voting.

    • #165
  16. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Django (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Tikhon Olmstead (View Comment):

    It’s late in the game for this comment; but I hate to say, I expected this outcome. I hoped for the best but prepared for the worst.

    Republicans as a team (and I voted a straight R ticket) can’t seem to get out of their own way. Wait, did I say “team”? That seems to be the problem, actually.

    Setting aside unanswered election questions, Republicans seem unable to unify around a vision and mission like the ideologues on the left who continue to crystalize a pure “gospel.” They rally around it and use it as a lever for strategy. I think this leads them to be dishonest and at times, wicked, having an ends-justifies-means ethic.

    But with signals of lack of teamsmanship like Trump calling DeSantis names, Kari setting herself against McCainites–we should *expect* to lose elections. We should expect not to be attractive to the squishy middle voters.

    Election shenanigans aside, we have not had winners in the pure sense. A winning posture is totally achievable, and so are beating-the-cheat results if we got our act together.

    I get the sense that Republican candidates are of a few types: (1) A species of Republican with superior policies and plans but an inferior strength that seems more brittle than durable, and tends to be mouthy at the wrong times; (2) Republicans who play the game and say the right words but seem to have lost track of their spine; (3) outright pretenders who game the public.

    I agree with you with one small caveat.

    The Republicans who ran as conservatives but did not involve themselves with disputing the 2020 election by and large won. DeSantis won by almost 20 points. Rubio won by 16 points. Abbott won his third term. Republicans who are focused on the future won. Republicans who were focused on the past such as the 2020 election lost, or at least had their margin of victory decreased by 5%.

    DeSantis and Rubio do not support your argument. They won because of DeSantis performance as governor and it had nothing to do with your theory.

    Twenty points in Florida. So? Does anyone think DeSantis can win Oregon, California, New York, Massachusetts? I’ve sent him money already and will likely send more, but he won’t have a lock on the nation-wide vote. It will be close in a few states with a lot of Electoral College votes. And with gutless, quarter-wit repubs denying security issues at the ballot box, it will be even harder than it should be.

    I don’t think that DeSantis can will in Oregon, California, New York or Massachusetts, or Illinois or Hawaii for that matter.  But he doesn’t have to win there.  He just needs to win in the five states that Trump won in 2016 and lost in 2020, namely, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.  If he can do that, DeSantis wins the presidency.

    • #166
  17. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    My goodness. I am now labeled as a Marxist sympathizer. And people objected which I called Election Disputers “Election Deniers.”

    Here are the facts. If you nominate Trump, or someone who is a Trump Big Lie Election Disputer, you are giving away 5+% of the vote. If you are in a ruby red district, or state, you can afford to do that. But if you live in a competative district or state, that 5+% can be the difference between winning and losing.

    Kimberly Yee was pro-Trump in 2020 and she seconded his nomination. While she was not an overt Election Disputer, she expressed Republican nostrums about Election Integrity. She is Pro-Life, Pro-Gun, Lower Taxes, Less Regulations, Anti-ESG Republican. Trump did not endorse in her race, as it was the fifth highest statewide race. She won 55.7% fo the vote. The top four statewide Republicans who Trump endorsed who were overt Election Disputers, all got less than 50.00% of the vote.

    If you live in a R+10 district or state, you can afford to be a Trump Big Lie Election Disputer. But if your state or district is R+5 or less, you will likely lose if you are a Trump Big Lie Election Disputer.

    [snip]

    If you fail to vote for “election deniers,” you let the Marxist Dems win seats and even a house in Congress.

    The moral of the story is that unless you live in a R+10 state or district, don’t nominate Election Disputers. Otherwise, the college educated suburban types will refuse to vote for the “Republican” or will find the Democrat to be the lesser of two evils.

    In MI-3 and WA-3, Election Disputers won the Republican Primaries, only to lose to Democrats in the general election. We really could have used those two additional votes in Congress, but Trump had to oppose them in the primary.

    I will vote as I please without regard to the silly sensibilities of others. I will not be extorted into voting against my wishes.

    Gary has some very odd cognitive dissonances. Such as, claiming he likes Trump’s policies but won’t vote for people who Trump endorses for at least in part having the same policies.

    Does he ever think about what he’d actually get if those non-Trump-endorsed people he would vote for WON? I don’t see how.

    He clearly has only first-level thinking going on, if even that.

    I refused to vote for people who disputed the 2020 election results to be endorsed by Trump.

    You chose Democrat leadership. Enjoy it.

    Gary is in a position to avoid the consequences of his voting.

    I would so much more have preferred that the second place candidates who were barely beaten in the Republican primary had been on the general election ballot, and had been elected like the fifth highest statewide Republican, Kimberly Yee, was by a 55.7% landslide.

     

    • #167
  18. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Tikhon Olmstead (View Comment):

    It’s late in the game for this comment; but I hate to say, I expected this outcome. I hoped for the best but prepared for the worst.

    Republicans as a team (and I voted a straight R ticket) can’t seem to get out of their own way. Wait, did I say “team”? That seems to be the problem, actually.

    Setting aside unanswered election questions, Republicans seem unable to unify around a vision and mission like the ideologues on the left who continue to crystalize a pure “gospel.” They rally around it and use it as a lever for strategy. I think this leads them to be dishonest and at times, wicked, having an ends-justifies-means ethic.

    But with signals of lack of teamsmanship like Trump calling DeSantis names, Kari setting herself against McCainites–we should *expect* to lose elections. We should expect not to be attractive to the squishy middle voters.

    Election shenanigans aside, we have not had winners in the pure sense. A winning posture is totally achievable, and so are beating-the-cheat results if we got our act together.

    I get the sense that Republican candidates are of a few types: (1) A species of Republican with superior policies and plans but an inferior strength that seems more brittle than durable, and tends to be mouthy at the wrong times; (2) Republicans who play the game and say the right words but seem to have lost track of their spine; (3) outright pretenders who game the public.

    I agree with you with one small caveat.

    DeSantis and Rubio do not support your argument. They won because of DeSantis performance as governor and it had nothing to do with your theory.

    Twenty points in Florida. So? Does anyone think DeSantis can win Oregon, California, New York, Massachusetts? I’ve sent him money already and will likely send more, but he won’t have a lock on the nation-wide vote. It will be close in a few states with a lot of Electoral College votes. And with gutless, quarter-wit repubs denying security issues at the ballot box, it will be even harder than it should be.

    I don’t think that DeSantis can will in Oregon, California, New York or Massachusetts, or Illinois or Hawaii for that matter. But he doesn’t have to win there. He just needs to win in the five states that Trump won in 2016 and lost in 2020, namely, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. If he can do that, DeSantis wins the presidency.

    Surprised by the Midterm Election Results? Take a Look at the Data – American Thinker

    Dream on.

    EDIT: Hat tip to Hoyacon for this. Pretty much puts a bullet in the idea that Trump was the only problem:

    What 2022 Midterms Exit Polling Tells Us | City Journal (city-journal.org)

    • #168
  19. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Gary, do you still disagree with the Supreme Court of Wisconsin that outdoor dropboxes are illegal there and that votes cast in such cannot be legally counted?  If so, why do you disagree?  Do you need an intro to the issue?  I made it simple here.

    • #169
  20. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Gary, do you still disagree with the Supreme Court of Wisconsin that outdoor dropboxes are illegal there and that votes cast in such cannot be legally counted? If so, why do you disagree? Do you need an intro to the issue? I made it simple here.

    Good luck getting an answer to that. 

    Mr. “In a court of law you have to tell the whole truth” suddenly will grow silent. 

    Just wait. 

    • #170
  21. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Tikhon Olmstead (View Comment):

    It’s late in the game for this comment; but I hate to say, I expected this outcome. I hoped for the best but prepared for the worst.

    Republicans as a team (and I voted a straight R ticket) can’t seem to get out of their own way. Wait, did I say “team”? That seems to be the problem, actually.

    Setting aside unanswered election questions, Republicans seem unable to unify around a vision and mission like the ideologues on the left who continue to crystalize a pure “gospel.” They rally around it and use it as a lever for strategy. I think this leads them to be dishonest and at times, wicked, having an ends-justifies-means ethic.

    But with signals of lack of teamsmanship like Trump calling DeSantis names, Kari setting herself against McCainites–we should *expect* to lose elections. We should expect not to be attractive to the squishy middle voters.

    Election shenanigans aside, we have not had winners in the pure sense. A winning posture is totally achievable, and so are beating-the-cheat results if we got our act together.

    I get the sense that Republican candidates are of a few types: (1) A species of Republican with superior policies and plans but an inferior strength that seems more brittle than durable, and tends to be mouthy at the wrong times; (2) Republicans who play the game and say the right words but seem to have lost track of their spine; (3) outright pretenders who game the public.

     

     

    DeSantis and Rubio do not support your argument. They won because of DeSantis performance as governor and it had nothing to do with your theory.

    Twenty points in Florida. So? Does anyone think DeSantis can win Oregon, California, New York, Massachusetts? I’ve sent him money already and will likely send more, but he won’t have a lock on the nation-wide vote. It will be close in a few states with a lot of Electoral College votes. And with gutless, quarter-wit repubs denying security issues at the ballot box, it will be even harder than it should be.

    I don’t think that DeSantis can will in Oregon, California, New York or Massachusetts, or Illinois or Hawaii for that matter. But he doesn’t have to win there. He just needs to win in the five states that Trump won in 2016 and lost in 2020, namely, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. If he can do that, DeSantis wins the presidency.

    He must win the screwed up states??

    • #171
  22. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Tikhon Olmstead (View Comment):

    It’s late in the game for this comment; but I hate to say, I expected this outcome. I hoped for the best but prepared for the worst.

    Republicans as a team (and I voted a straight R ticket) can’t seem to get out of their own way. Wait, did I say “team”? That seems to be the problem, actually.

    Setting aside unanswered election questions, Republicans seem unable to unify around a vision and mission like the ideologues on the left who continue to crystalize a pure “gospel.” They rally around it and use it as a lever for strategy. I think this leads them to be dishonest and at times, wicked, having an ends-justifies-means ethic.

    But with signals of lack of teamsmanship like Trump calling DeSantis names, Kari setting herself against McCainites–we should *expect* to lose elections. We should expect not to be attractive to the squishy middle voters.

    Election shenanigans aside, we have not had winners in the pure sense. A winning posture is totally achievable, and so are beating-the-cheat results if we got our act together.

    I get the sense that Republican candidates are of a few types: (1) A species of Republican with superior policies and plans but an inferior strength that seems more brittle than durable, and tends to be mouthy at the wrong times; (2) Republicans who play the game and say the right words but seem to have lost track of their spine; (3) outright pretenders who game the public.

     

     

    DeSantis and Rubio do not support your argument. They won because of DeSantis performance as governor and it had nothing to do with your theory.

    Twenty points in Florida. So? Does anyone think DeSantis can win Oregon, California, New York, Massachusetts? I’ve sent him money already and will likely send more, but he won’t have a lock on the nation-wide vote. It will be close in a few states with a lot of Electoral College votes. And with gutless, quarter-wit repubs denying security issues at the ballot box, it will be even harder than it should be.

    I don’t think that DeSantis can will in Oregon, California, New York or Massachusetts, or Illinois or Hawaii for that matter. But he doesn’t have to win there. He just needs to win in the five states that Trump won in 2016 and lost in 2020, namely, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. If he can do that, DeSantis wins the presidency.

    He must win the screwed up states??

    The only hope a Republican who supports the MAGA agenda is that The Turtle assumes room temperature before 2024 and that none of his supporters are able to take his place. 

    • #172
  23. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Tikhon Olmstead (View Comment):

    It’s late in the game for this comment; but I hate to say, I expected this outcome. I hoped for the best but prepared for the worst.

    Republicans as a team (and I voted a straight R ticket) can’t seem to get out of their own way. Wait, did I say “team”? That seems to be the problem, actually.

    Setting aside unanswered election questions, Republicans seem unable to unify around a vision and mission like the ideologues on the left who continue to crystalize a pure “gospel.” They rally around it and use it as a lever for strategy. I think this leads them to be dishonest and at times, wicked, having an ends-justifies-means ethic.

    But with signals of lack of teamsmanship like Trump calling DeSantis names, Kari setting herself against McCainites–we should *expect* to lose elections. We should expect not to be attractive to the squishy middle voters.

    Election shenanigans aside, we have not had winners in the pure sense. A winning posture is totally achievable, and so are beating-the-cheat results if we got our act together.

    I get the sense that Republican candidates are of a few types: (1) A species of Republican with superior policies and plans but an inferior strength that seems more brittle than durable, and tends to be mouthy at the wrong times; (2) Republicans who play the game and say the right words but seem to have lost track of their spine; (3) outright pretenders who game the public.

     

     

    DeSantis and Rubio do not support your argument. They won because of DeSantis performance as governor and it had nothing to do with your theory.

    Twenty points in Florida. So? Does anyone think DeSantis can win Oregon, California, New York, Massachusetts? I’ve sent him money already and will likely send more, but he won’t have a lock on the nation-wide vote. It will be close in a few states with a lot of Electoral College votes. And with gutless, quarter-wit repubs denying security issues at the ballot box, it will be even harder than it should be.

    I don’t think that DeSantis can will in Oregon, California, New York or Massachusetts, or Illinois or Hawaii for that matter. But he doesn’t have to win there. He just needs to win in the five states that Trump won in 2016 and lost in 2020, namely, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. If he can do that, DeSantis wins the presidency.

    He must win the screwed up states??

    Arguably states that were deliberately screwed up to allow for election fraud.

    • #173
  24. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Django (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Tikhon Olmstead (View Comment):

     

    DeSantis and Rubio do not support your argument. They won because of DeSantis performance as governor and it had nothing to do with your theory.

    Twenty points in Florida. So? Does anyone think DeSantis can win Oregon, California, New York, Massachusetts? I’ve sent him money already and will likely send more, but he won’t have a lock on the nation-wide vote. It will be close in a few states with a lot of Electoral College votes. And with gutless, quarter-wit repubs denying security issues at the ballot box, it will be even harder than it should be.

    I don’t think that DeSantis can will in Oregon, California, New York or Massachusetts, or Illinois or Hawaii for that matter. But he doesn’t have to win there. He just needs to win in the five states that Trump won in 2016 and lost in 2020, namely, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. If he can do that, DeSantis wins the presidency.

    Surprised by the Midterm Election Results? Take a Look at the Data – American Thinker

    Dream on.

    EDIT: Hat tip to Hoyacon for this. Pretty much puts a bullet in the idea that Trump was the only problem:

    What 2022 Midterms Exit Polling Tells Us | City Journal (city-journal.org)

    This stood out in the latter:

    There has been much talk about “candidate quality” on the GOP side, with Republicans allegedly having run “extremist” candidates. Exit polling, however, doesn’t suggest that voters were generally turned off by Republicans as extremists. In Senate races decided by single digits, only Blake Masters in Arizona was regarded by a clear majority of voters (54 percent) as holding “views” they thought were “too extreme”—and even that perception may have been heavily influenced by his having been outspent nearly eight to one by Democratic incumbent Mark Kelly. In House races, meantime, when asked whether either party was “too extreme,” 39 percent thought only the Republicans were extreme, 38 percent thought only the Democrats were extreme, and 13 percent thought both were extreme.

    This in the former:

    It is just a theory, but I believe that aggressive ballot-harvesting is the most likely explanation for the disparity between pollster predictions and actual results in the 2022 midterm elections. In the movie, 2,000 Mules, True the Vote (TTV), the organization run by Catharine Engelbrecht and Gregg Phillips, described the prevalence of ballot-harvesting in the 2020 election. Although its estimates are only rough approximations (based on cell phone analysis), TTV believes there were up to 200,000 and 275,000 harvested ballots in Arizona and Pennsylvania, respectively

    Put them together and you see further disintegration of the country. We will not accept corrupt elections and their outcomes. 

    • #174
  25. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    No, no, no. The reason why it takes so long in Arizona is that the Republican Legislature did not enact a cut-off for mail-in ballots on the Saturday before the election.

    Yeah, that’s not corrupt at all, now is it? Sheesh.

    Gary, I’m not taking anything back.

    But you are not proving your point either.

    You like lousy Third World ballot controls and Zuckerberg style electioneering. Swell. 

    • #175
  26. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Old Bathos (View Comment):
    What I never quite grasped about the whole McCain/maverick thing is that there does not appear to be an ideological core at work–just the promise of occasional dissent theater.  

    I’ve said this a million times. You can’t get anyone to explain in plain English how he moved the ball forward for conservatives and libertarians. 

    The McCain machine is unconstructive at best. It’s a lot worse than that really.-

    • #176
  27. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Jon Gabriel, Ed. (View Comment):

    Old Bathos (View Comment):

    What I never quite grasped about the whole McCain/maverick thing is that there does not appear to be an ideological core at work–just the promise of occasional dissent theater.

    Exactly. He was a weathervane and would pick a few weird fights with his own party for the sake of it, or for some hidden interest. The MSM would praise him since they love red-on-red bloodletting.

    In AZ, the MAGA vs. NeverMAGA schism not only depressed GOP performance but turned off the indies. A point or two loss from GOP no-shows and defections, a point or two lost from disgruntled indies, and a point or two gained by Dems by means of better mobilization means that what should/could have been a set of healthy 4-5 point wins across the board turns into 1-3 point losses across the board–exactly what happened.

    This is key. Indies see both sides screaming at each other and decide to vote for the side with the least drama. Most voters couldn’t care less about ideology, and just want to be left alone. (And, since they aren’t ideological, they don’t understand that the left will never, ever leave them alone.)

    I love this.

    • #177
  28. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    No, no, no. The reason why it takes so long in Arizona is that the Republican Legislature did not enact a cut-off for mail-in ballots on the Saturday before the election.

    Yeah, that’s not corrupt at all, now is it? Sheesh.

    Gary, I’m not taking anything back.

    But you are not proving your point either.

    Whatever.

    This is just a fact. Gary is terrible at responding to  the points he makes. He’s not entitled to any reciprocity.

    • #178
  29. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    In Arizona, the Democrats have a sophicated GOTV program. 

    It’s called ballot harvesting from the disinterested and infirmed. 

    There is no excuse for supporting Democrats partly because of this un-American activity.

    • #179
  30. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Quickz (View Comment):

    Just a couple of points to close out my night about what winning really is, and what it is not. Winning is being able to see, as Reagan says, part of that loaf you wanted realized. Yes, whole loaf is best, but part of that loaf is fine.

    We now know what wins. Conservatism wins.

    This is in reference to one office winning – the treasurer. No, this is not winning. Winning would have been tactically putting your political difference aside and voting for conservative governance. Having AG, Gov, SoS, and a Senator enables implementation of policy and conservative governing. Having lost all those offices and having a Treasures is not winning. It’s actually a tactical failure. We all can have differences in policy, please learn to vote for policy and governance, like every sub-group of the party has learned.

    NO. Trump is not conservative governance. Trump insisted that candidates literally lie about the 2020 election. I will never, ever, under any circumstance, forgive that.

    Trump lied, the Republican Party died.

    Whether you like it or not, there is a hard 5.7% of the voters who will vote for a conservative for public office, but will not vote for a Trump Endorsed candidate who disputes the “Biden Election Victory.” You can lose with Trump or Trump endorsed candidates, or you can win with any one else.

    The fact is you never talk about conservative governance in this era. The only thing you have in your head is GOP boiler plate from decades ago. 

    • #180
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