Did Gov. DeSantis Get the ‘Stop Woke Act’ Wrong?

 

When I saw that the court’s Judge Walker rejected key parts of the “Stop Woke Act”(Individual Freedom Act) in Florida, I assumed that he was just another Leftist judge attacking the Conservative legislation. But then I saw that he was responding to a lawsuit brought by the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE) on behalf of a faculty member, a student, and a student group. FIRE is a highly regarded organization that champions free speech. You can review their lawsuit here. FIRE stated that the act was unconstitutional in that it disallowed free speech on public college campuses.

Judge Walker’s blistering criticism referred to the work of George Orwell:

‘In this case, the State of Florida lays the cornerstone of its own Ministry of Truth under the guise of the Individual Freedom Act, declaring which viewpoints shall be orthodox and which shall be verboten in its university classrooms,’ Walker wrote.

‘[T]he First Amendment does not permit the State of Florida to muzzle its university professors, impose its own orthodoxy of viewpoints, and cast us all into the dark,’ Walker concluded.

The legislation was intended to bring a halt to curricula that ignored or defied traditional teaching of values and subjects, since universities were condemning traditional education and providing Marxist and socialist content to students. The judge, in his objection, said that the state could provide educational curriculum, but explained that there is no precedent for the State of Florida’s assertion that the state “has an unfettered right to prohibit professors from expressing viewpoints with which it disagrees.”

It’s important to note FIRE’s position in this lawsuit:

FIRE’s suit is limited to higher education and does not take a position on the truth of the prohibited concepts of race and sex. Rather, FIRE takes the viewpoint-neutral approach that faculty retain the right to give an opinion—whether that opinion supports or opposes the prohibited concepts in the Stop WOKE Act….

For those of us who believe the university has corrupted education by distorting content and attacking traditional viewpoints, this ruling creates a few dilemmas:

  • How do we return our universities to teaching an appropriate curriculum?
  • How do we limit the propaganda being taught without violating the constitution?
  • Is there a way to ensure that at least a balanced curriculum is offered to students?
  • Was the writing of the “Stop Woke” Act insufficient to meet the state’s agenda?

Is this ruling a message that the universities can’t be stopped in their march to destroy the foundations of the United States?

You can read the “Stop Woke Act” here.

Published in Education
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  1. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    kedavis (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):
    I don’t think the Stop Woke Act limits free speech in the classroom. On the contrary, it explicitly prohibits compelling specific speech/beliefs. It also explicitly does not prohibit discussing those concepts (as long as they are not compelled).

    This would be important, but that’s not what the lawsuit claims. However, there is this on page 23 of 93:

    Asked to identify specific examples of what the Stop WOKE Act would “eradicate or accomplish,” Rep. Avila identified:

    (a) A discussion in which participants “discuss their ‘privilege’”;

    (b) A training program that argued that “America is a system of white supremacy”;

    (c) A training arguing that “capitalism is fundamentally racist” and asking participants to “deconstruct their racial
    and sexual identities and then rank themselves on a hierarchy of ‘privilege’”

    I don’t see a problem with inviting students to discuss their privilege, but compelling them to discuss their privilege could be a problem. Even more so if this is in a required course in which students are required to “deconstruct…and rank themselves…” What the remedy would be is less clear, but it’s something that the state of Florida should be interested in.

    Requiring that type of participation would seem to be getting close to requiring a loyalty oath from students. I think there is a legal history about loyalty oath requirements that goes back to the McCarthy days.

    I’m not convinced that a “discussion of privilege” would not be based on toxic assumptions such as that only white students have it.

    I would bet on it. If students are required to affirm it, that is a big problem. 

    • #151
  2. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    I don’t see a problem with inviting students to discuss their privilege, but compelling them to discuss their privilege could be a problem.

    Of course, if you are sitting in a class and are expected to participate as part of your grade, that would be compelling the students. And if the student disagreed with the woke agenda, it could be especially touchy.

    • #152
  3. Sisyphus Member
    Sisyphus
    @Sisyphus

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    I don’t see a problem with inviting students to discuss their privilege, but compelling them to discuss their privilege could be a problem.

    Of course, if you are sitting in a class and are expected to participate as part of your grade, that would be compelling the students. And if the student disagreed with the woke agenda, it could be especially touchy.

    Identifying the heretics and culling the herd is all a part of Woke inclusiveness.

    • #153
  4. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    I’m honestly curious as to whether any students have actually been compelled to say they’re racist even if they don’t think they are.

    Seems like it starts happening in a lot of elementary schools, these days.

    I’d love a link, I’d love some proof.

    Some of the things I have heard of is that the teachers tells all of the white students that they are oppressors and then tells all of the black students that they are the oppressed.

    It’s an extension of the idea that white people have “white privilege,” teaching racial essentialism.

    Is this actually happening in our schools? If not, why is there so much opposition to guidelines saying that you can’t teach race essentialism to students in a taxpayer funded school?

    It is prevalent throughout society, including the military, corporations, and yes, schools.

    • #154
  5. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    I’m honestly curious as to whether any students have actually been compelled to say they’re racist even if they don’t think they are.

    Seems like it starts happening in a lot of elementary schools, these days.

    I’d love a link, I’d love some proof.

    Here’s one:

    https://www.the-sun.com/news/2398213/public-schools-teach-white-systemic-racism/

    You can google lots of other examples.

    Susan, I read the article and it didn’t claim students were forced to say they were racist. What am I missing?

     

    The accusation of inborn racism is a huge component CRT.

    • #155
  6. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    I’m honestly curious as to whether any students have actually been compelled to say they’re racist even if they don’t think they are.

    Seems like it starts happening in a lot of elementary schools, these days.

    I’d love a link, I’d love some proof.

    Here’s one:

    https://www.the-sun.com/news/2398213/public-schools-teach-white-systemic-racism/

    You can google lots of other examples.

    Susan, I read the article and it didn’t claim students were forced to say they were racist. What am I missing?

    Are they being taught that they, as white students, are responsible for the oppression of blacks? In other words, are schools teaching students that they are responsible for a racial collective?

    Perhaps you should go read up on CRT then rejoin the conversation. However, you must go back the Marxist Frankfurt School and its promoters of critical theory and how they infected academia and our culture. 

    • #156
  7. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Susan, I read the article and it didn’t claim students were forced to say they were racist. What am I missing?


    Zafar (View Comment)
    :
    Susan, I read the article and it didn’t claim students were forced to say they were racist. What am I missing?

    Zafar, I’m really disappointed in this kind of remark. Let’s see: the kids are taught they are racist, they are born racist, that they are oppressors of the worst kind, and carry other terrible attributes–just because they are white. I’m not going to research whether they are specifically taught to call themselves oppressors. You can do that yourself. But I would suggest that this kind of indoctrination breeds self-hate, division, and is actually responsible for perpetuating racism. I’m satisfied that kind of education is sufficiently horrible..

    I

    • #157
  8. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Susan, I read the article and it didn’t claim students were forced to say they were racist. What am I missing?


    Zafar (View Comment)
    :
    Susan, I read the article and it didn’t claim students were forced to say they were racist. What am I missing?

    Zafar, I’m really disappointed in this kind of remark. Let’s see: the kids are taught they are racist, they are born racist, that they are oppressors of the worst kind, and carry other terrible attributes–just because they are white. I’m not going to research whether they are specifically taught to call themselves oppressors. You can do that yourself. But I would suggest that this kind of indoctrination breeds self-hate, division, and is actually responsible for perpetuating racism. I’m satisfied that kind of education is sufficiently horrible.

    I think there is a difference between teaching about racism and teaching racism.

    CRT does neither.it assigns guilt broadly to undermine cultural confidence.

    • #158
  9. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    I think there is a difference between teaching about racism and teaching racism.

    CRT does neither.it assigns guilt broadly to undermine cultural confidence.

    I think HW was suggesting that the Left are racists through their teaching. And they hope to convince all those who are white that they are inherently racists, i.e., teaching them what the Left believes they are (and they clearly have no clue). But you are correct that in some respects, they have no idea what racism actually is.

    • #159
  10. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):


    Zafar (View Comment)
    :
    Susan, I read the article and it didn’t claim students were forced to say they were racist. What am I missing?

     Zafar, I’m really disappointed in this kind of remark. Let’s see: the kids are taught they are racist, they are born racist, that they are oppressors of the worst kind, and carry other terrible attributes–just because they are white.

    Racism is not a personal moral failing, it’s part of our culture – so to the extent that a culture is racist, we all carry some of it and we all also have the power to do something about it. That doesn’t make us bad people, only humans who live in a human society.

    I’m not going to research whether they are specifically taught to call themselves oppressors. You can do that yourself.

    I am not claiming that students are specfically taught to call themselves oppressors.

    But I would suggest that this kind of indoctrination breeds self-hate, division, and is actually responsible for perpetuating racism. I’m satisfied that kind of education is sufficiently horrible.

    imnsho the issue isn’t that the matter is examined and discussed, but that they fail to give it context, to universalise it.

    In every society with a dominant group that dominant group makes assumptions about themselves and about the rest. And it’s easier for them to stick with their assumptions, because dominant, they don’t really have to listen to what the others think or say because it isn’t a day to day necessity. This is a human tendency, and any of us – when we find ourselves a part of the dominant group in our society, or even in a situation – have the potential to go with it.

    Dumbing this down to ‘whiteness’ in America does nobody any favours. But the response should be to teach it better rather than not teaching it at all.

    The goal of CRT isn’t to eliminate racism. Its goal is to eliminate America’s founding principles and capitalism. Seeding guilt to cause cultural self don’t is a tactic. CRT is evil.

    • #160
  11. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Zafar (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    It WAS being taught better, and comprehensively. It’s the left who have weaponized it into their identity politics.

    If it was being taught better and comprehensively the Left should have been unable to do this.

    Go research the Frankfurt School and critical theory then come back to the conversation.

    • #161
  12. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Stina (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    It WAS being taught better, and comprehensively. It’s the left who have weaponized it into their identity politics.

    If it was being taught better and comprehensively the Left should have been unable to do this.

    That’s naive.

    Well taught and largely untried people get comfortable. Comfortable people stop being on guard. It’s an opening to be taken advantage of.

    It is more than naive. He is arguing from a position of ignorance.

    • #162
  13. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    It WAS being taught better, and comprehensively. It’s the left who have weaponized it into their identity politics.

    If it was being taught better and comprehensively the Left should have been unable to do this.

    That’s naive.

    Well taught and largely untried people get comfortable. Comfortable people stop being on guard. It’s an opening to be taken advantage of.

    And even if they weren’t comfortable, it’s like Zafar has never met the left, or something.

    Or is of the left.

    • #163
  14. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    It WAS being taught better, and comprehensively. It’s the left who have weaponized it into their identity politics.

    If it was being taught better and comprehensively the Left should have been unable to do this.

    That’s naive.

    Or?

    Well taught and largely untried people get comfortable. Comfortable people stop being on guard. It’s an opening to be taken advantage of.

    Troubled waters are already troubled before anybody fishes in them.

    No, you are wrong. 

    • #164
  15. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Ed G. (View Comment):
    Yes, but not directly in those words. Not in the form of some pledge or anything like that. There was a class where those concepts must be cited and affirmed in order to get a good grade yes but also to avoid being dressed down in class.

    Which class? And how do you mean ‘dressed down’? Like a personal attack, or was it about not knowing the concept? If the former I’m appalled.

    I find your pedantry weaksauce Zafar. (And I love pedantry.) First you disagree with a conservative and ask for evidence. Then someone provides evidence and you niggle about minute details and exact definitions that miss the forest for the trees.

    We have been here before.

    https://ricochet.com/981115/define-no-go-zones/

    Education in America is indeed getting so woke that it is becoming racist. It is entirely appropriate to ask for evidence of this. But you have a pattern of dismissing right-wing arguments  even after the rightwingers have provided a decent amount of evidence.

     

    • #165
  16. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    I find your pedantry weaksauce Zafar. (And I love pedantry.)

    I will have to try harder.

    First you disagree with a conservative and ask for evidence. Then someone provides evidence and you niggle about minute details and exact definitions that miss the forest for the trees.

    Laws are not just a matter of feelings.  Laws are about clear definitions.  Or should be.

    We have been here before.

    https://ricochet.com/981115/define-no-go-zones/

    You remembered!

    Education in America is indeed getting so woke that it is becoming racist. It is entirely appropriate to ask for evidence of this. But you have a pattern of dismissing right-wing arguments  even after the rightwingers have provided a decent amount of evidence.

    Actually Ed G was very generous in his responses, and I accepted them.

    What he didn’t do was overstate anything.  Which I appreciate.

    (Btw, Britannica has what looks like an excellent article on CRT – I don’t fully buy it (for reasons I’ve set out here I think it’s limited) but at least it’s clearly defined.)

    • #166
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