Are Masks Useful After All? Not Likely.

 

Until a week or two ago, all I’d heard in a long time about masks indicated they were doing more harm than good. Sure, it made sense when we thought we might have a child-killer spreading through coughing. But then, even back in 2020, we starting hearing that Covid doesn’t hurt kids much. We also learned that the virus doesn’t spread much by coughing. It’s aerosolized; it spreads through infected people just breathing it out, and when they do it’s small enough to go both through and around cloth masks and regular surgical masks. And then Omicron came., replicating in the outer airways 70 times as fast as Delta, which was already a much faster-spreading virus than the original Covid.

There’s no stopping this thing with masks, which are not harmless in any case, and little to no slowing of it.  Don’t trust me, of course. I’m a dang philosopher. Trust reliable sources on the internet–if you can find any.  But does that count the New England Journal of Medicine? Some authors there say masks can at least prevent the spread of the virus.

Some Problems with the NEJM Article

Now there are any other problems with the article’s reasoning.  It doesn’t stick to medical science, and spins its own supposed discoveries as a great way of fighting structural racism.  It ignores the harm done by masks–the unhealthiness of breathing through sweaty face diapers, the developmental delays in small children who can’t see adults’ mouths when they’re trying to learn how to talk, the cruelty to asthmatics.  It ignores the relative harmlessness of Omicron–generally ranging from mild cold to bad flu, and that’s only for the people who actually have symptoms.  It ignores the fact that probably somewhere between 75 and 95 percent of us have had some kind of Covid by now anyway.

Basically, as it seems to me, there’s no awareness of the need to do any cost-benefit analysis. Nor of the superior abilities of people, who know their own situation better than centralized bureaucrats, to do their own analysis for their own dang selves.

Still, if there really is some actual evidence here that masks really do have the benefit of preventing some Covid infections, I would like to know that.  My early-2020 optimism about masks has since given way to a deep pessimism about masks.  Was I wrong then, or am I wrong now?

The Article’s Main Argument

So let’s look at the NEJM article’s argument for that conclusion.  From what I can understand, these guys are comparing Boston schools without mask requirements and Boston schools with mask requirements and finding that during the April-June Omicron spike there were more positive Covid cases in the schools that lifted mask requirements.

Something like . . . 45/1,000 more people getting Covid over a space of 15 weeks.

This is illustrated in the article’s Figure 1, which shows higher Covid rates for the schools that dropped the mask mandates.

They conclude from this that the lack of masks is likely the reason these schools had more Omicron cases.

Ok. Seems to make sense. And, to their credit, they make some effort to rule out other possible causes–e.g., the schools that kept the mask mandates and had less Covid were also the ones that had worse “ventilation or filtration systems,” so when some schools had higher Covid rates it wasn’t because they had worse air systems.

But I’m kind of interested in something else: Figure 2.   If I’m reading it properly, the same schools with the higher Covid rates after dropping mask requirements also had higher Covid rates during the December-January spike.

So this raises a darn big question: How are we supposed to know whether these schools were not just more prone to getting Covid for some reason not considered in the article?  (There are plenty of possible explanations I can think of–something about their location, schoolkids’ parents’ jobs, or what a few clusters of first-graders sometimes do on the weekend–and many more I can’t even think of.) The reason they got even more Covid during the next Omicron spike is simply that the next version of Omicron was spreading even faster.

That was my initial, provisional concern with the article.

Other Problems with the Article

Apparent Dr. Vinay Prasad had some objections as well.   Dr. Prasad says this study is not a randomized control trial; it’s just an observational study. But a randomized control trial is what we need.  This would not be difficult, but Fauci is against it, and won’t fund it, and instead we’re funding these “observational studies that fit a certain narrative.”

That’s an important objection!  Do you remember why they were saying back in 2020 that chloroquine didn’t have good science in its favor?  It was because it didn’t have any randomized controlled studies–you know, the kind we still apparently don’t have for masks either.

Sheesh.

Dr. Prasad recommends reading this piece on Substack by Dr. Tracy Beth Høeg.  It’s a nice, detailed look at many things wrong with the NEJM piece.  I don’t notice Høeg looking over my particular concern, but I am pleased that she, Dr. Prasad, and I are all worried about other causes of a difference in Covid rates that the article does not sufficiently rule out.

And golly–Dr. Høeg did a great job critiquing the NEJM article!  Her article has some of the same concerns as Dr. Prasad.  It also has this insight: The NEJM study assumes that Covid spread outside of school is caused by Covid spread inside school, and not vice versa.  That’s a heckuvan assumption there.  And Høeg links to some other studies that indicate little to no benefit of masks.

“Let Us Hear the Conclusion of the Whole Matter”

Not that I find all this easy to understand.  But if I’m provisionally trusting someone, whom am I going to trust–the freethinker on Substack or the establishmentarians jabbering about structural racism and calling it medical science?

In short, the NEJM article notwithstanding, it is still perfectly reasonable to think that masks are not useful against Covid–that they are doing more harm than good.  As far as I can tell, the available evidence still points to that conclusion.

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  1. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    if we are talking about global worming……

    Holy crap! Things are worse than I thought!

    I think that’s great.  I had to reread it five times, but when I got it, it was eye-opening.

    • #31
  2. Hammer, The (Ryan M) Inactive
    Hammer, The (Ryan M)
    @RyanM

    Amazing that there are still people pushing this nonsense.  But they are never going to go away.  Every day you go out in public you see one or two of the diehard mask zealots, still absolutely confident that their faith in this talisman is warranted.

    • #32
  3. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Flicker (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):

    It’s hard to believe that when you’re walking through, say, a grocery store, and there might be a few areas where there are clouds of virus floating, that you’d be better off without a mask then with one. When you walk through the cloud, which you’re in for only a few seconds, the virus sticks on your mask and doesn’t go up your nose. At least most of it does which means you’re better off than if you hadn’t worn one. And since you’re only wearing it for a few minutes, what’s the harm?

    That’s really the only time I still use one, places where there are large amounts of people indoors and where I’m not going to be spending a whole lot of time. If I’ve decided to spend a lot more time inside, such as going out to dinner, then I’m just going to take my chances without a mask. Because in that situation, even if I wore it the whole time, chances are it wouldn’t help due to the time spent inside.

    We don’t need studies to tell us that what our common sense says is right or wrong.

    The problem is masks are permeable to water vapor, droplets and viruses. And masks act as virus concentrators.

    Warm water vapor created a breeding ground for the virus. 

    • #33
  4. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):

    It’s hard to believe that when you’re walking through, say, a grocery store, and there might be a few areas where there are clouds of virus floating, that you’d be better off without a mask then with one. When you walk through the cloud, which you’re in for only a few seconds, the virus sticks on your mask and doesn’t go up your nose. At least most of it does which means you’re better off than if you hadn’t worn one. And since you’re only wearing it for a few minutes, what’s the harm?

    That’s really the only time I still use one, places where there are large amounts of people indoors and where I’m not going to be spending a whole lot of time. If I’ve decided to spend a lot more time inside, such as going out to dinner, then I’m just going to take my chances without a mask. Because in that situation, even if I wore it the whole time, chances are it wouldn’t help due to the time spent inside.

    We don’t need studies to tell us that what our common sense says is right or wrong.

    The problem is masks are permeable to water vapor, droplets and viruses. And masks act as virus concentrators.

    Warm water vapor created a breeding ground for the virus.

    More like collecting ground, I think.

    • #34
  5. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    W Bob (View Comment):
    When you walk through the cloud, which you’re in for only a few seconds, the virus sticks on your mask and doesn’t go up your nose. At least most of it does which means you’re better off than if you hadn’t worn one.

    Does it stick? It’s plenty small enough to go through. Does something stop most of it?

    • #35
  6. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):
    We don’t need studies to tell us that what our common sense says is right or wrong.

    Yes we do.

    Ok well give an example of where a study contradicted common sense. I’m sure there have been…like where it was proved that heavy objects fall at the same speed as lighter ones…but I can’t think of any when in comes to the virus. Or maybe I’m just thinking of my personal common sense.

    It sure sounds like you’re asking for the studies mentioned by the writer on Substack.

    • #36
  7. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):
    Ok well give an example of where a study contradicted common sense.

    In medicine such studies are too numerous to count. And too many to cite.

    But for example we treat BP to avoid strokes. But the BP meds that are best for BP are not generally the ones that are best at avoiding strokes. Why not? We don’t know.

    Lipitor lowers cholesterol in men, and prevents heart attacks. In women, it lowers cholesterol, but does not appear to change heart attack rates. Why not? We don’t know.

    I could go on and on and on and on. And on and on and on and on.

    But we’ve learned in medicine to try to figure out how things are likely to work. But then to CHECK OUR PRESUMPTIONS WITH STUDIES. We’re very often wrong. Things don’t always work out like we think they ought to.

    “Makes sense” is not a good reason to prescribe a drug.

    And “masks are probably mostly harmless, and might help some…” – that is not a good reason to recommend that millions of people wear masks.

    I hear that gold injections are sometimes helpful in treating arthritis. That would be about as “uncommonsense” a remedy as I could think of, sounding like it came from Medieval witch doctors.

    I bet vibranium would work. In Wakanda, it fixes pretty much everything else.

    • #37
  8. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):
    When you walk through the cloud, which you’re in for only a few seconds, the virus sticks on your mask and doesn’t go up your nose. At least most of it does which means you’re better off than if you hadn’t worn one.

    Does it stick? It’s plenty small enough to go through. Does something stop most of it?

    If I’m not mistaken, the “experts” including people at the CDC and maybe even Fauci, have admitted that masks are totally useless when it comes to incoming virus.  They explain that it’s only use is to prevent infected people from expelling the virus into the atmosphere.  The virus being bound to expelled water droplets from an infected person that can get trapped by the mask is the critical difference.  Viruses floating in a “cloud” have no such impediments.

    • #38
  9. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):

    This has been my “common sense” approach for 2.5 years and I’ve never been infected, at least not enough to get acute symptoms.

    And my common sense approach for 2.5 years was to never wear one of the damned things unless forced to, and then only a bandana, out of contempt. Contempt for those who were satisfied with and calmed down by a freakin bandana.

    And I also have never been infected, to my knowledge.

    “I would not sneeze into a cloth handkerchief and then keep it on my face, snot droplets and all, for the rest of the day and don’t ask others to do that. I ask that they stay home if they are sick.

    Unless the mask is properly fitted, the air with all its particles will leak in and out of the sides. A false sense of protection can be as dangerous as no protection.”

    Yes, properly fitted, and unused. How many people wore a brand new white/blue mask every time they put one on? Nobody! Most had the same one in their car, and rummaged around for it in the side door pocket, or where it was hanging off the mirror, and strapped it on every time we had to go inside anywhere. And it was fine. Nobody checked, nobody cared; you had something on your face so they were mollified.

    It was all a giant crock.

    • #39
  10. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Old Bathos (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):

    It’s hard to believe that when you’re walking through, say, a grocery store, and there might be a few areas where there are clouds of virus floating, that you’d be better off without a mask then with one. When you walk through the cloud, which you’re in for only a few seconds, the virus sticks on your mask and doesn’t go up your nose. At least most of it does which means you’re better off than if you hadn’t worn one. And since you’re only wearing it for a few minutes, what’s the harm?

    SNIP

    We don’t need studies to tell us that what our common sense says is right or wrong.

    One of the lessons from Hope-Simpson’s 1992 book on respiratory pandemics is that we will always get it wrong if we assume that these things only spread by sick-to-healthy transmission. The phenomenon of seasonality (simultaneous outbreaks across large regions) rather than sporadic, asynchronous pockets means that (a) the damn things spread widely long before the outbreak; (b) can remain dormant/latent, and (c) some shared favorable external conditions cause symptomatic infections to emerge in a narrow time frame. The Red Cross found that COVID-19 was in blood samples in 35 American cities months before the first outbreak. Most white-tailed deer in the US are likely COVID- positive.SNIP  How it spread and why symptomatic infections emerge as they do is not settled science by any stretch.

    Germany did not permit bandanas and silly cloth masks. Most German states mandated N95s and compliance was well over 90% at all times (they’re Germans, right?) and yet the incidence of infection and COVID fatality was no different from that of Sweden (mask use ~10%). “Common sense” needs to take a crack at that one because there should have been a noticeable difference if masks worked as you assume.

    The image of clouds of viruses hovering over the checkout line in the Safeway of CVS is probably not how the bug spreads. If it did, my local grocery store and its daily shoppers (the only permissible destination during the initial maskless lockdown) would have been contagion central in march and April two years ago. It was not. The same employees and same shoppers were there every day during the state’s first peak periods rather than the expected decimation from the hovering cloud.

    Your “common sense” needs to be modified by the fact that nobody has a clear and complete handle on how respiratory viruses get around. Unless you do a full decontamination SNIP

    Excellent report, and I have to say many of us noticed the same checkers & delivery people out on the front lines, yet alive and well despite all the human to human contact.

    • #40
  11. DonG (CAGW is a Scam) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Scam)
    @DonG

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    It seems to me that there are over one-hundred thousand real world laboratories that have data on mask wearing. 

     There is a big difference between retrospective observational data, and prospective placebo controled studies. But to your point, we might have expected to see some benefit of masks by now. Benefits which would be fairly clear.

    And yet nobody has conducted a double-blind study on mask effectiveness.  The same goes for lockdowns, no double-blind study on effectiveness.  I was told that was the only way to make any conclusion.  

    • #41
  12. Old Bathos Member
    Old Bathos
    @OldBathos

    DonG (CAGW is a Scam) (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    It seems to me that there are over one-hundred thousand real world laboratories that have data on mask wearing.

    There is a big difference between retrospective observational data, and prospective placebo controled studies. But to your point, we might have expected to see some benefit of masks by now. Benefits which would be fairly clear.

    And yet nobody has conducted a double-blind study on mask effectiveness. The same goes for lockdowns, no double-blind study on effectiveness. I was told that was the only way to make any conclusion.

    There have been RCTs on mask effectiveness against respiratory viruses. The established, uncontroverted science says that they will provide little to no benefit. During the first weeks of the pandemic (back when Fauci correctly observed that drug store surgical masks would be pretty useless), one of Fauci’s senior NAIAD  colleagues took the trouble to look up the record of such studies and emailed him her findings (around page 1,770 of the FOIA data dump of Fauci emails if you are checking).  Oddly enough, the science was almost immediately dumped in favor of mandated pretenses to Do Something About It :

     

    • #42
  13. W Bob Member
    W Bob
    @WBob

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):
    When you walk through the cloud, which you’re in for only a few seconds, the virus sticks on your mask and doesn’t go up your nose. At least most of it does which means you’re better off than if you hadn’t worn one.

    Does it stick? It’s plenty small enough to go through. Does something stop most of it?

    N95s are supposed to filter most viruses out. 

    Once they are in the filter, they are no longer aerosol. That means that any danger they still pose would be through touch contact, which has been shown not to be a danger with this virus. It’s spread through the air, not through touch. That’s why hand sanitizer isn’t being pushed anymore. Even if that’s wrong, its still better to stop the virus than to breathe it in, even if it remains in the mask. Plus, virus dies after a certain amount of time out of the body. 

    • #43
  14. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):
    When you walk through the cloud, which you’re in for only a few seconds, the virus sticks on your mask and doesn’t go up your nose. At least most of it does which means you’re better off than if you hadn’t worn one.

    Does it stick? It’s plenty small enough to go through. Does something stop most of it?

    N95s are supposed to filter most viruses out.

    . . .

    Well, yeah.

    Is that what you were talking about all this time?

    I was talking about the masks nearly all the people who wear masks are actually wearing.

    • #44
  15. Clavius Thatcher
    Clavius
    @Clavius

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):
    When you walk through the cloud, which you’re in for only a few seconds, the virus sticks on your mask and doesn’t go up your nose. At least most of it does which means you’re better off than if you hadn’t worn one.

    Does it stick? It’s plenty small enough to go through. Does something stop most of it?

    N95s are supposed to filter most viruses out.

    . . .

    Well, yeah.

    Is that what you were talking about all this time?

    I was talking about the masks nearly all the people who wear masks are actually wearing.

    A properly fitted and worn N95 mast filters most viruses out.

    • #45
  16. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Clavius (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):
    When you walk through the cloud, which you’re in for only a few seconds, the virus sticks on your mask and doesn’t go up your nose. At least most of it does which means you’re better off than if you hadn’t worn one.

    Does it stick? It’s plenty small enough to go through. Does something stop most of it?

    N95s are supposed to filter most viruses out.

    . . .

    Well, yeah.

    Is that what you were talking about all this time?

    I was talking about the masks nearly all the people who wear masks are actually wearing.

    A properly fitted and worn N95 mast filters most viruses out.

    Indeed.  If those had been the requirement, and had the NEJM article been about them, this would be a very different conversation. We’d be talking about costs and benefits instead of wondering “What benefits?”

    • #46
  17. W Bob Member
    W Bob
    @WBob

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):
    When you walk through the cloud, which you’re in for only a few seconds, the virus sticks on your mask and doesn’t go up your nose. At least most of it does which means you’re better off than if you hadn’t worn one.

    Does it stick? It’s plenty small enough to go through. Does something stop most of it?

    N95s are supposed to filter most viruses out.

    . . .

    Well, yeah.

    Is that what you were talking about all this time?

    I was talking about the masks nearly all the people who wear masks are actually wearing.

    Uh…ok. My bad I guess. I’ve never worn a cloth or polyester mask. Not once, ever. (Although I do recall Fauci wearing them during his Congress testimony.)

     

    • #47
  18. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):
    When you walk through the cloud, which you’re in for only a few seconds, the virus sticks on your mask and doesn’t go up your nose. At least most of it does which means you’re better off than if you hadn’t worn one.

    Does it stick? It’s plenty small enough to go through. Does something stop most of it?

    N95s are supposed to filter most viruses out.

    Once they are in the filter, they are no longer aerosol. That means that any danger they still pose would be through touch contact, which has been shown not to be a danger with this virus. It’s spread through the air, not through touch. That’s why hand sanitizer isn’t being pushed anymore. Even if that’s wrong, its still better to stop the virus than to breathe it in, even if it remains in the mask. Plus, virus dies after a certain amount of time out of the body.

    That isn’t true. The virus will thrive on the warm moist air you exhale. If you cough or sneeze you will violently expel the accumulated virus. I know of no guidance that says handwashing isn’t effective.

    • #48
  19. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):
    When you walk through the cloud, which you’re in for only a few seconds, the virus sticks on your mask and doesn’t go up your nose. At least most of it does which means you’re better off than if you hadn’t worn one.

    Does it stick? It’s plenty small enough to go through. Does something stop most of it?

    N95s are supposed to filter most viruses out.

    . . .

    Well, yeah.

    Is that what you were talking about all this time?

    I was talking about the masks nearly all the people who wear masks are actually wearing.

    He assumes a perfect fit which there isn’t, even with an n95.

    • #49
  20. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):
    When you walk through the cloud, which you’re in for only a few seconds, the virus sticks on your mask and doesn’t go up your nose. At least most of it does which means you’re better off than if you hadn’t worn one.

    Does it stick? It’s plenty small enough to go through. Does something stop most of it?

    N95s are supposed to filter most viruses out.

    . . .

    Well, yeah.

    Is that what you were talking about all this time?

    I was talking about the masks nearly all the people who wear masks are actually wearing.

    Uh…ok. My bad I guess. I’ve never worn a cloth or polyester mask. Not once, ever. (Although I do recall Fauci wearing them during his Congress testimony.)

     

    Are you going to wear a mask the rest of your life?

    • #50
  21. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):
    When you walk through the cloud, which you’re in for only a few seconds, the virus sticks on your mask and doesn’t go up your nose. At least most of it does which means you’re better off than if you hadn’t worn one.

    Does it stick? It’s plenty small enough to go through. Does something stop most of it?

    N95s are supposed to filter most viruses out.

    . . .

    Well, yeah.

    Is that what you were talking about all this time?

    I was talking about the masks nearly all the people who wear masks are actually wearing.

    He assumes a perfect fit which there isn’t, even with an n95.

    Fair enough, I guess.  But an N95, in crowded indoor spaces if you’re vulnerable or if the virus is more dangerous or still an unknown, really would do some good–I think–in reducing transmission.

    • #51
  22. Gazpacho Grande' Coolidge
    Gazpacho Grande'
    @ChrisCampion

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):
    Ok well give an example of where a study contradicted common sense.

    In medicine such studies are too numerous to count. And too many to cite.

    But for example we treat BP to avoid strokes. But the BP meds that are best for BP are not generally the ones that are best at avoiding strokes. Why not? We don’t know.

    Lipitor lowers cholesterol in men, and prevents heart attacks. In women, it lowers cholesterol, but does not appear to change heart attack rates. Why not? We don’t know.

    I could go on and on and on and on. And on and on and on and on.

    But we’ve learned in medicine to try to figure out how things are likely to work. But then to CHECK OUR PRESUMPTIONS WITH STUDIES. We’re very often wrong. Things don’t always work out like we think they ought to.

    “Makes sense” is not a good reason to prescribe a drug.

    And “masks are probably mostly harmless, and might help some…” – that is not a good reason to recommend that millions of people wear masks.

    Great post, doc!  Makes sense.

    ka-POW!

    • #52
  23. Gazpacho Grande' Coolidge
    Gazpacho Grande'
    @ChrisCampion

    Flicker (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):

    It’s hard to believe that when you’re walking through, say, a grocery store, and there might be a few areas where there are clouds of virus floating, that you’d be better off without a mask then with one. When you walk through the cloud, which you’re in for only a few seconds, the virus sticks on your mask and doesn’t go up your nose. At least most of it does which means you’re better off than if you hadn’t worn one. And since you’re only wearing it for a few minutes, what’s the harm?

    That’s really the only time I still use one, places where there are large amounts of people indoors and where I’m not going to be spending a whole lot of time. If I’ve decided to spend a lot more time inside, such as going out to dinner, then I’m just going to take my chances without a mask. Because in that situation, even if I wore it the whole time, chances are it wouldn’t help due to the time spent inside.

    We don’t need studies to tell us that what our common sense says is right or wrong.

    The problem is masks are permeable to water vapor, droplets and viruses. And masks act as virus concentrators.

    I’m fairly confident that doctors, post-surgery, don’t wear their mask out to the car, leave it in the glove box, then pull it out again for tomorrow’s surgery.

    Now, I’m no doctor.  But citing medical environments as being applicable to the 99.99999% of the world that is not a medical facility is nuts.  

    What’s really nuts is that because the survivability rate is so high and only diminishes, slightly, at the very top end of the age curve (ignoring for a moment people with pre-conditions), means that the negatives most certainly outweigh the positives of mask-wearing, and isolation for children, and the elderly, many of whom isolated from their families due to travel restrictions, and died alone.

    But hey.  Masks.  I think the conversations would be different if the CDC said everyone had to wear a plastic bubble on their heads, y’know, to save us all from Covid.  The diaper is intrusive but easily put on and put off, provides the Patina of Protection (pm), and you get to feel good that you’re helping others.

    Looking forward to permanent masking rules during flu seasons.

    • #53
  24. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):

    This has been my “common sense” approach for 2.5 years and I’ve never been infected, at least not enough to get acute symptoms.

    And my common sense approach for 2.5 years was to never wear one of the damned things unless forced to, and then only a bandana, out of contempt. Contempt for those who were satisfied with and calmed down by a freakin bandana.

    And I also have never been infected, to my knowledge.

    “I would not sneeze into a cloth handkerchief and then keep it on my face, snot droplets and all, for the rest of the day and don’t ask others to do that. I ask that they stay home if they are sick.

    Unless the mask is properly fitted, the air with all its particles will leak in and out of the sides. A false sense of protection can be as dangerous as no protection.”

    Yes, properly fitted, and unused. How many people wore a brand new white/blue mask every time they put one on? Nobody! Most had the same one in their car, and rummaged around for it in the side door pocket, or where it was hanging off the mirror, and strapped it on every time we had to go inside anywhere. And it was fine. Nobody checked, nobody cared; you had something on your face so they were mollified.

    It was all a giant crock.

    The purpose of the mask was not to stop virus but as a constant reminder of the pandemic and to avoid each other.  
    every study on masks in a community setting has shown that masks have almost no effect in a long term community basis.  That is not to say at an individual basis it may have had some effect.  

    • #54
  25. W Bob Member
    W Bob
    @WBob

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):
    When you walk through the cloud, which you’re in for only a few seconds, the virus sticks on your mask and doesn’t go up your nose. At least most of it does which means you’re better off than if you hadn’t worn one.

    Does it stick? It’s plenty small enough to go through. Does something stop most of it?

    N95s are supposed to filter most viruses out.

    . . .

    Well, yeah.

    Is that what you were talking about all this time?

    I was talking about the masks nearly all the people who wear masks are actually wearing.

    Uh…ok. My bad I guess. I’ve never worn a cloth or polyester mask. Not once, ever. (Although I do recall Fauci wearing them during his Congress testimony.)

    Are you going to wear a mask the rest of your life?

    I sure hope not. I hate it. But if you recall what I said, I wear a mask less than about an hour a week. That’s not the rest of your life.

    I volunteer at a dog shelter almost everyday. it’s often crowded and is the kind of place I normally would put one on. But your hands get so dirty with the dogs, there’s no point in wearing one. You’d be touching and adjusting your mask with filthy hands. So no mask there. I wear N95 masks only when it’s convenient and in places where I think it might be necessary, for short periods of time.

    • #55
  26. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):
    When you walk through the cloud, which you’re in for only a few seconds, the virus sticks on your mask and doesn’t go up your nose. At least most of it does which means you’re better off than if you hadn’t worn one.

    Does it stick? It’s plenty small enough to go through. Does something stop most of it?

    N95s are supposed to filter most viruses out.

    . . .

    Well, yeah.

    Is that what you were talking about all this time?

    I was talking about the masks nearly all the people who wear masks are actually wearing.

    Uh…ok. My bad I guess. I’ve never worn a cloth or polyester mask. Not once, ever. (Although I do recall Fauci wearing them during his Congress testimony.)

    Are you going to wear a mask the rest of your life?

    I sure hope not. I hate it. But if you recall what I said, I wear a mask less than about an hour a week. That’s not the rest of your life.

    I volunteer at a dog shelter almost everyday. it’s often crowded and is the kind of place I normally would put one on. But your hands get so dirty with the dogs, there’s no point in wearing one. You’d be touching and adjusting your mask with filthy hands. So no mask there. I wear N95 masks only when it’s convenient and in places where I think it might be necessary, for short periods of time.

    You missed the point. Covid is endemic. it isn’t going away but will ebb and flow like the flu viruses. If you feel more secure wearing one, by all means do so. Some of us prefer not to be masked up the rest of our lives. I will deal with covid like I deal with the flu. I got the pneumonia shot. Meanwhile, criminals will continue to take advantage of masks to help them escape recognition and capture.  

    • #56
  27. OwnedByDogs Lincoln
    OwnedByDogs
    @JuliaBlaschke

    I wore a mask. Was convinced they helped to stop the spread. Then Biden dropped the mask mandate except for federal agencies and left it up to the States. I did some research about the size of the virus and the gaps in a mask (even an N-95) and decided that it was all BS. Now I firmly believe that masks were just ineffective measures taken by Fauci and others for political reasons and to give the impression they were doing something.

    I mean, remember the theater of putting on a mask to enter a restaurant, taking it off to eat and putting it back on to go to the restroom? 

    I got 2 Moderna shots and one booster. I don’t plan to get the 2nd  booster because I read that it only provides protection for 3 weeks.  As far as I know, I’ve never had Covid. At least I have never tested positive and I tested myself whenever I got a cold or any symptoms. I recently had the flu. Tested twice and both times were negative for Covid.

    I live in Texas now (thank God!) and the only time I had to put on a mask was on a visit to the local Social Security office. The guard apologized for having to ask us to do it.

    • #57
  28. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Honeywell is a manufacturer of N95 respirators.  These are made with a 0.3 micron filter. (12)  N95 respirators are so named, because 95% of particles having a diameter of 0.3 microns are filtered by the mask forward of the wearer, by use of an electrostatic mechanism. Coronaviruses are approximately 0.125 microns in diameter.

    Surgical masks were also found to be a repository of bacterial contamination.  The source of the bacteria was determined to be the body surface of the surgeons, rather than the operating room environment. (38) …. Without the protective garb of surgeons, laypeople generally have even more exposed body surface to serve as a source for bacteria to collect on their masks.

    The increased rate of infection in mask-wearers may be due to a weakening of immune function during mask use.  Surgeons have been found to have lower oxygen saturation after surgeries even as short as 30 minutes. (40)  Low oxygen induces hypoxia-inducible factor 1 alpha (HIF-1). (41)  This in turn down-regulates CD4+ T-cells.  CD4+ T-cells, in turn, are necessary for viral immunity.

     The use of face masks, whether cloth, surgical or N95, creates a poor obstacle to aerosolized pathogens as we can see from the meta-analyses and other studies in this paper, allowing both transmission of aerosolized pathogens to others in various directions, as well as self-contamination..

    Link: https://www.technocracy.news/masks-are-neither-effective-nor-safe-a-summary-of-the-science/

     

    • #58
  29. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring
    1. There is increasing evidence that the novel coronavirus is transmitted, at least in indoor settings, not primarily by droplets but by much smaller aerosols. However, due to their large pore size and poor fit, most face masks cannot filter out aerosols (see video analysis below): over 90% of aerosols penetrate or bypass the mask and fill a medium-sized room within minutes.
    2. The WHO admitted to the BBC that its June 2020 mask policy update was due not to new evidence but “political lobbying”: “We had been told by various sources WHO committee reviewing the evidence had not backed masks but they recommended them due to political lobbying. This point was put to WHO who did not deny.” (D. Cohen, BBC Medical Corresponent).

    https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/

    • #59
  30. OwnedByDogs Lincoln
    OwnedByDogs
    @JuliaBlaschke

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    1. There is increasing evidence that the novel coronavirus is transmitted, at least in indoor settings, not primarily by droplets but by much smaller aerosols. However, due to their large pore size and poor fit, most face masks cannot filter out aerosols (see video analysis below): over 90% of aerosols penetrate or bypass the mask and fill a medium-sized room within minutes.
    2. The WHO admitted to the BBC that its June 2020 mask policy update was due not to new evidence but “political lobbying”: “We had been told by various sources WHO committee reviewing the evidence had not backed masks but they recommended them due to political lobbying. This point was put to WHO who did not deny.” (D. Cohen, BBC Medical Corresponent).

    https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/

    The Democrat’s MAGA hat.

    • #60
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