Trump Wasn’t a Symbol, But a Man

 

Trump is done.  But he wasn’t a symbol or a symptom but a man.  Trump is gone, and with him the republic.  There will never be another Jefferson Smith or Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.

Trump was a unique man, he did extraordinary things.  He was in many ways larger than life.  And I won’t bring up his failings here, because we all have failings, and are similar to every other man in this regard, but Trump was truly unique, perhaps even great.  Being a billionaire, large or small, is usually accomplishment enough for one man in one lifetime, but to be a longstanding television celebrity, star of his own show, and a billionaire gives him a rarified status.  And to run for political office once and to win the US presidency is another even more rarified accomplishment.  And to – inadvertently perhaps – take on the world’s deepest darkest political organization and to survive to fight another day is another rare feat.

Twitter is very likely gone, or more correctly on the way out, if it is intended to be a neutral public square: it will never be allowed to be.  But Trump has invested his time, money, and energy into creating an alternative to Twitter that will likely survive, even as it will not be the same, or as powerful.

But he is a man.  Old and in good mental and physical condition, but, being now cast in the shadow of Mr. Biden, is being depicted as too old, too subject to mental infirmity, and too likely to die in office should he ever run for public office again.

He is a man who taught us a lot – though some would say inadvertently – about the corruption of government at its highest levels, in the legislature, in the highest court in the land, and especially in his own executive branch; what I would call a runaway branch, and what some including me, would refer to as the de facto Fourth Branch of government, and one supreme to the rest.

He has taught us – again, perhaps inadvertently – that entrenched powers could destroy a US presidential administration through obstruction, planned malingering, deceit, and through the covert spy services which were created to protect the federal government from just such obstruction, deceit, and spying from foreign powers.

He taught us – though possibly inadvertently – that China was indeed our greatest strategic and economic threat.

And he taught us – contrary to the hand-wringing of politicians, political operatives, pundits, and the Press — that Russia and North Korea and Iran could be held at bay, sitting on their haunches, though waiting, licking their lips.

And, like Mr. Smith, the movie, which was nominated for 11 Academy Awards, including Best Picture, Best Director and Best Actor, winning Best Original Story, whether chosen by whim or fate, Trump has shown us that the American public of 1939 is mostly dead.

The public that turned to Trump is largely now turning their backs, saying that his time is past; they are turning to a new incipient American hero who, unlike Trump, cannot manipulate the adversarial Press to boost his candidacy, and who cannot self-fund his election campaign, and who is taking tremendous campaign contributions from and placing himself beholden to the usual establishment financial sources; and who, unlike Trump, is not so much a political innovator but has gotten his start standing on Trump’s shoulders and endorsements, who has learned to treat the Press with disdain as Trump showed him how, and who has been leading the wave of Trump’s political recalcitrance and impertinence, but who now is being wooed, perhaps willingly, into opposing Trump’s political direction.

This mostly dead portion of the populace is now either “over Trump” or, where it is not “over” him, remains in direct opposition to him.  At best, they say that Trump was a stenotic plaque, if you will, a symptom of a sclerotic Republican machinery, a club, a political corporation, whose best interests were never in service to the Americans they professed to represent and whose interests were never their own.

And so, much of the mostly living parts of this mostly dead republic revert to those candidates who go along to get along; voting in elections that are proven to be swayed beyond any so-called margin for fraud by Google’s prioritization algorithms; on electronic black boxes and that all go down simultaneously in important elections, when important Republican voters are most likely to vote in person; with judges who restrain voting centers from staying open late to address these unforeseen election calamities.

And they bewail the result, and speak of messaging and enthusiasm as if it were the cause of an electoral disappointment.

So yes, Trump was a unique man and a sign of the times, but he was also a symbol, a symbol more potent than the “Let’s Go Brandon” chant, so potent that the highest office in the land charged him with being the identifying symbol not of the deplorables, but of terrorism, and White Supremacy, and a Threat to Our Democracy.  And you became the focus of FBI, DOJ, and the government’s related social media companies along with the banking interests it regulates.  And such disdain and legal threatening can only be borne for so long.

I understand why you must now refer to Trump as “former President Trump” and say, He’s gone, and, I’m over him, lest you be singled out for social and political shunning and possible 5 a.m. raids by military commandos wearing police badges.

But let us lament the laying to political rest of Donald John Trump, the man, who showed us so much.

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  1. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Symbol or man, bad orange or just well tanned, DJT is done now.

    He’s done because of people who say he’s done. And maybe “Dementia” Don knows something about DeSantis that most everyone else doesn’t — like what his intentions really are.

    Gasp. You’re right. You think he might want to be President? I hadn’t considered that.

    Oh, and one other thing.  If DeSantis is actually intent on running for president in two years (as I infer your meaning to be) that means the campaign has already started.  Trump will use unorthodox criticisms of his opponents but hasn’t gone full Cruz’s father (yet — and he may never).  In this case, going through DeSantis’ history is pretty tame.

    • #31
  2. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Flicker (View Comment):
    But I think it is a shame to discard and disparage Trump now.  He really gave up a lot to deliver a great service.  And now everyone’s badmouthing and blaming him.

    It’s the latest “Current Thing.”

    I Support The Current Thing | Know Your Meme

    • #32
  3. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    James Salerno (View Comment):
    I firmly believe that Trump’s foreign policy was what drove the uni-party’s hatred.

    This is probably correct.

    That’s certainly what animated the Fat Uke Spy who arranged Impeachment 1.0.

    • #33
  4. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    But I think it is a shame to discard and disparage Trump now. He really gave up a lot to deliver a great service. And now everyone’s badmouthing and blaming him.

    It’s the latest “Current Thing.”

    I Support The Current Thing | Know Your Meme

     

    • #34
  5. Freeven Member
    Freeven
    @Freeven

    Flicker: I understand why you must now refer to Trump as “former President Trump” and say, He’s gone, and, I’m over him, lest you be singled out for social and political shunning and possible 5am raids by military commandos wearing police badges.

    You’re reading an awful lot of minds here.

    • #35
  6. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    James Salerno (View Comment):
    I firmly believe that Trump’s foreign policy was what drove the uni-party’s hatred.

    TempTime (View Comment):

    But perhaps you are correct, it was simply driven by a confluence of deadly sins:  vainglory, covetousness, envy, and wrath.

    P.S.   I disagree about President Trump’s status;  I don’t think he is done by a long shot; as long as he is still breathing.

    J. D. Fitzpatrick (View Comment):
    All those pesky voters who haven’t spent their lifetimes learning how to craft sentences for a crowd of literati … but who have a visceral sense of the danger the country faces and the best candidate to face it.

    James Salerno (View Comment):

    Trump is over six feet tall, managed a financial empire, and had sex with supermodels.

    He’s the bad guy in Revenge of the Nerds in a generation that viewed Revenge of the Nerds as an existential struggle.

    I hope you all don’t mind if I respond to your comments all at once.  Two things, first Trump 2024, then Trump hatred.

    But first let me make an analogy.  I once saw a bit of a steampunk movie called, I think, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.  The only memorable thing in it beyond the poor CGI was a, I think, something like a 32-cylinder, steam powered, six- or ten-wheeled, convertible sedan limousine — in white.  Beautiful.  Fast.  Roomy.  Bizarre. 

    Trump is like that automobile; nothing matches it, but it could perform.  Today it would probably be outlawed.

    As to the first, I don’t want to see Trump drop out, but I’m getting the same feeling that I had prior to this election, it’s not going to go down swimmingly for the Republicans: Trump won’t be reelected president, but he will stay a major force in the election, maybe running, maybe not; and the election will be decided by the Democrats apart from real voting results, and voicing concerns about fraud will once again be off the table as being unproveable.

    I separate the true believers from the movers and shakers.  Among the movers and shakers, their conspiracy against Trump started back when he first declared, and was in contact with Gen. Flynn who was to be Trump’s National Security Advisor, and who was set on restructuring and reforming the CIA.  This would have been the end of the whole world-wide Deep State if Flynn had had his way.  This is why Flynn was the first to be taken out.

    Among the true believers, the hatred of Trump is a lot like the fear of covid: It’s psychological conditioning.  And even those who could normally shake off the conditioning, are finally given in to intense disapproval after more than 6 years of the constant barrage of media propaganda, if for no other reason than out of fatigue (maybe I’m wrong and they always harbored this emotional reaction which warred with their conservative thinking).

    (continued)

    • #36
  7. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    (continued)

    And everyone else is hypnotized or brainwashed (like with sales advertisements) or are otherwise so disinformed that when they hear that Trump is Evil, they just don’t know better than to believe it.  Remember, Trump was anything from a slightly corrupt guy or an okay average billionaire, to a prime celebrity who many people watched and followed for years before announcing his candidacy.  It seems to me that anyone who would watch Trump and get their opinion of him from his TV show, are willing to believe pretty much anything for any reason.

    I still think that 80% of all Democrats would love Trump and doff their masks and lose any desire for the next booster within three months of the proper authority telling them to via social media.  I think their motivation is fear, ignorance and gullibility.

    But the knowledgeable ones, the ones who know and ignore his record, or who eschew what they know for what they feel, an overt disdain bordering on hatred, particularly the Never Trumpers, have something else going on.

    • #37
  8. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Freeven (View Comment):

    Flicker: I understand why you must now refer to Trump as “former President Trump” and say, He’s gone, and, I’m over him, lest you be singled out for social and political shunning and possible 5am raids by military commandos wearing police badges.

    You’re reading an awful lot of minds here.

    I was being generous.

    • #38
  9. Freeven Member
    Freeven
    @Freeven

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Freeven (View Comment):

    Flicker: I understand why you must now refer to Trump as “former President Trump” and say, He’s gone, and, I’m over him, lest you be singled out for social and political shunning and possible 5am raids by military commandos wearing police badges.

    You’re reading an awful lot of minds here.

    I was being generous.

    No. You were ascribing bad motivations. You were calling people cowards. Perhaps people refer to Trump as “former President Trump” because he is. And perhaps they come by their opinions that backing Trump isn’t the best strategy  going forward honestly.

    • #39
  10. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    In formal contexts, President Donald Trump will always be called “President Donald Trump,” just as we will always call the first president “President George Washington” and the sixteenth president “President Abraham Lincoln.” I don’t think I’ve ever seen the construction “the former president George Washington” or “the former president Abraham Lincoln.”

    • #40
  11. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Among the true believers, the hatred of Trump is a lot like the fear of covid: It’s psychological conditioning. And even those who could normally shake off the conditioning, are finally given in to intense disapproval after more than 6 years of the constant barrage of media propaganda, if for no other reason than out of fatigue (maybe I’m wrong and they always harbored this emotional reaction which warred with their conservative thinking).

    Exactly that. Psychological conditioning. A constant barrage of Orange Man Bad coming from every institution in the country will wear down anyone who isn’t fortified against it.

    One really fascinating aspect is the young black men who just loved him. (And still do.) Is that the celebrity aspect? Or did they respect his game? Or what? But that’s one reason why his numbers improved with that group. (And I don’t think there’s another Republican, currently, who could do that.)

    But as to fortifying oneself against the propaganda, it takes work. 2016, I found myself believing Orange Man Bad. I was an original NeverTrumper. No way I was ever voting for him. But as I said in one of this week’s threads (and then deleted it because there was no point in throwing pearls to swine), once I started fact-checking the media, and realizing that so much of what they said about him were lies, I found myself more and more having to defend him from stupid attacks. “No, he didn’t really say that.” “No, he didn’t actually do that.” “Here’s what he actually said.” And I didn’t want to become his defender because I didn’t want to vote for him. But the liars pushed me into it. And by the time election day rolled around, I was okay with voting for him. (And then of course, after seeing his performance as Prez, happy to have voted for him.)

    But you have to resist the mind control, and too many did not. I don’t know why, where certain subjects are concerned, our side, which traditionally distrusts the media, decided that the media was exactly right where Trump was concerned. The number of “conservative” pundits or “conservative” media outlets that totally bought into the Russia Collusion hoax was astounding. They wanted it to be true. Andy McCarthy is a perfect example of that, and he still can’t seem to accept how completely corrupt his beloved FBI is. Every time I think he’s figured it out, he seems to backtrack to “But they’re essentially good.” I ask myself the same thing when it comes to the Uke War. How do people who know that the Biden administration is evil trust what the Biden administration is doing in Ukraine?

    It’s a kind of Gell-Mann amnesia effect, and it’s troubling. 

    • #41
  12. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    J. D. Fitzpatrick (View Comment):

    I guess we can make all the pronouncements we want and then see what, you know, the GOP voters decide if Trump chooses to run again.

    All those pesky voters who haven’t spent their lifetimes learning how to craft sentences for a crowd of literati … but who have a visceral sense of the danger the country faces and the best candidate to face it.

    Sounds like a populist inferiority complex dude.  Those damn good talkers with their fancy words!  Intellectuals need to be purged #AmIRight?

    • #42
  13. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    J. D. Fitzpatrick (View Comment):

    I guess we can make all the pronouncements we want and then see what, you know, the GOP voters decide if Trump chooses to run again.

    All those pesky voters who haven’t spent their lifetimes learning how to craft sentences for a crowd of literati … but who have a visceral sense of the danger the country faces and the best candidate to face it.

    Sounds like a populist inferiority complex dude. Those damn good talkers with their fancy words!

    You sound exactly like Rick Wilson. Congratulations?

    Intellectuals need to be purged #AmIRight?

    You kind of are. Thought I wouldn’t classify them as “intellectuals.”

    IYI is closer. “Credentialed, not Educated.”

    • #43
  14. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    J. D. Fitzpatrick (View Comment):

    I guess we can make all the pronouncements we want and then see what, you know, the GOP voters decide if Trump chooses to run again.

    All those pesky voters who haven’t spent their lifetimes learning how to craft sentences for a crowd of literati … but who have a visceral sense of the danger the country faces and the best candidate to face it.

    Sounds like a populist inferiority complex dude. Those damn good talkers with their fancy words!

    You sound exactly like Rick Wilson. Congratulations?

    Intellectuals need to be purged #AmIRight?

    You kind of are. Thought I wouldn’t classify them as “intellectuals.”

    IYI is closer. “Credentialed, not Educated.”

    So purge me lol.   DISSENT WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!  (also not a cult)

    • #44
  15. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    J. D. Fitzpatrick (View Comment):

    I guess we can make all the pronouncements we want and then see what, you know, the GOP voters decide if Trump chooses to run again.

    All those pesky voters who haven’t spent their lifetimes learning how to craft sentences for a crowd of literati … but who have a visceral sense of the danger the country faces and the best candidate to face it.

    Sounds like a populist inferiority complex dude. Those damn good talkers with their fancy words!

    You sound exactly like Rick Wilson. Congratulations?

    Intellectuals need to be purged #AmIRight?

    You kind of are. Thought I wouldn’t classify them as “intellectuals.”

    IYI is closer. “Credentialed, not Educated.”

    So purge me lol. DISSENT WILL NOT BE TOLERATED! (also not a cult)

    I didn’t consider you an IYI. Should I?

    • #45
  16. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Freeven (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Freeven (View Comment):

    Flicker: I understand why you must now refer to Trump as “former President Trump” and say, He’s gone, and, I’m over him, lest you be singled out for social and political shunning and possible 5am raids by military commandos wearing police badges.

    You’re reading an awful lot of minds here.

    I was being generous.

    No. You were ascribing bad motivations. You were calling people cowards. Perhaps people refer to Trump as “former President Trump” because he is. And perhaps they come by their opinions that backing Trump isn’t the best strategy going forward honestly.

    Cowardice?  No.  Discretion.

    “Mind reading” is a diffuse and pejorative expression, certainly in this accusation you make toward me.  You were interpreting my motives negatively, and that could be just as much “mind reading” as what you accuse me of.  People always try to understand why people do things, and to pick out conclusions you don’t like as mind reading is not really helpful.

    And no, people always naming a president, outside of common precedent and out of a temporal context, “former President” So-and so, doesn’t just mean “past” but alludes to the idea that he still views himself as the legitimate winner, and the speaker intends to allude to this and to make the point that he is no longer president; and implying that he is making a deliberate misstatement or deception.  Referring to Trump as “former President Trump” has a specific intent.

    You can disagree with me but don’t attribute my words solely to bad intentions.

    • #46
  17. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Among the true believers, the hatred of Trump is a lot like the fear of covid: It’s psychological conditioning. And even those who could normally shake off the conditioning, are finally given in to intense disapproval after more than 6 years of the constant barrage of media propaganda, if for no other reason than out of fatigue (maybe I’m wrong and they always harbored this emotional reaction which warred with their conservative thinking).

    Exactly that. Psychological conditioning. A constant barrage of Orange Man Bad coming from every institution in the country will wear down anyone who isn’t fortified against it.

    See my new post on Red Pill coincidentally about just this.

    • #47
  18. Freeven Member
    Freeven
    @Freeven

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Freeven (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Freeven (View Comment):

    Flicker: I understand why you must now refer to Trump as “former President Trump” and say, He’s gone, and, I’m over him, lest you be singled out for social and political shunning and possible 5am raids by military commandos wearing police badges.

    You’re reading an awful lot of minds here.

    I was being generous.

    No. You were ascribing bad motivations. You were calling people cowards. Perhaps people refer to Trump as “former President Trump” because he is. And perhaps they come by their opinions that backing Trump isn’t the best strategy going forward honestly.

    Cowardice? No. Discretion.

    “Mind reading” is a diffuse and pejorative expression, certainly in this accusation you make toward me. You were interpreting my motives negatively, and that could be just as much “mind reading” as what you accuse me of. People always try to understand why people do things, and to pick out conclusions you don’t like as mind reading is not really helpful.

    And no, people always naming a president, outside of common precedent and out of a temporal context, “former President” So-and so, doesn’t just mean “past” but alludes to the idea that he still views himself as the legitimate winner, and the speaker intends to allude to this and to make the point that he is no longer president; and implying that he is making a deliberate misstatement or deception. Referring to Trump as “former President Trump” has a specific intent.

    You can disagree with me but don’t attribute my words solely to bad intentions.

    Fair enough, in principle. But here’s the thing. I prefer the formulation “former President Trump” simply because it’s accurate (eschewing titles of nobility and the like) — not for any of the reasons you imagine. Your second paragraph above is a total misunderstanding of my motivations. By falsely ascribing to me these bad intentions you are engaging in mind reading.

    I’ll leave it there.

    • #48
  19. Old Bathos Moderator
    Old Bathos
    @OldBathos

    Lots of good points. I voted for Trump as  needed corrective. He was more effective than I expected.

    He treated his underlings badly. Disagreement is not disloyalty. He refused to grow in gravitas and savored gratuitous squabbles with lesser types rather than transcending them. 

    He was harassed and abused is ways not President should have to endure. Revenge through re-election is clearly not possible.

    The energy he brought to the party is more than matched by passions he inspires on the other side. As a practical matter he needs to go so that the fight can be waged more effectively. 

    • #49
  20. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    TempTime (View Comment):
    But eventually I realized the Corona thing had to do with triggering primal fear levels.   But what was it about President Trump that could trigger the same level of irrational fear?

    TempTime (View Comment):
     ‘You cannot reason with someone who’s perspective/pov/thoughts were not reached via reason.’

    You’re on the right track.

    PDT did in fact trigger the same kind of dumb animal fear in them as Covid, but more concrete. The persuasives know they don’t contribute and have not earned their station. It came to them seemingly by magic, because there is no chain of events by which they can feel they earned it. So they know it can be taken away from them just as inexplicably. They are instinctively afraid of every productive person, and that fear surfaces in their arrogant disdain. 

    Ok, some of the lefties have more concrete problems. Every virulently anti-Trump person that I’ve been able to study (not many) has some consuming Daddy-related issue. But the basic fear he precipitates is fear of losing something they didn’t earn.

    • #50
  21. Michael Henry Member
    Michael Henry
    @MichaelHenry

    Very well said, Flicker. I agree wholeheartedly. President Trump’s exposure of the corruption of the Deep State was a tremendous accomplishment. He’s smart, gutsy, and unafraid. He showed how to fight, and demonstrated the courage needed to stand up to the coastal elites. That said, it’s time for him, and everyone who voted for him (me, twice), to move on.

    DeSantis is the appropriate follow-up to Trump’s breaking the ice. He knows how to govern.

    Trump has lots of faults–we all do. But if he had not been so outrageous, sarcastic, bombastic, braggadocious, etc., he would never have been elected. He showed the way, now should play golf and bask in the esteem of those of us who appreciate what he did.

    Thank you for your service, President Trump.

     

    • #51
  22. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):
    I ask myself the same thing when it comes to the Uke War. How do people who know that the Biden administration is evil trust what the Biden administration is doing in Ukraine?

    How about not giving a rip about what Biden is doing in Ukraine, and just support what Ukrainians are doing in Ukraine?

    • #52
  23. HeavyWater Reagan
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    kedavis (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):
    I ask myself the same thing when it comes to the Uke War. How do people who know that the Biden administration is evil trust what the Biden administration is doing in Ukraine?

    How about not giving a rip about what Biden is doing in Ukraine, and just support what Ukrainians are doing in Ukraine?

    I would support aid to Ukraine regardless of who is President.  

    Just because someone in the White House has an R next to his name doesn’t mean he is always right and just because someone in the White House has a D next to his name doesn’t mean he is always wrong.  

    Partisanship has its uses, but also its limits.  

    • #53
  24. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    kedavis (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):
    I ask myself the same thing when it comes to the Uke War. How do people who know that the Biden administration is evil trust what the Biden administration is doing in Ukraine?

    How about not giving a rip about what Biden is doing in Ukraine, and just support what Ukrainians are doing in Ukraine?

    Let’s stay away from the Ukrainian war here thanks, except only insofar as it may relate to Trump.  This is not the post for that verbal battle.

    • #54
  25. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    EDIT: Respecting Flick’s request above.

    • #55
  26. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    This will be a family style fight, I suspect.

    I have a family member whose behavior is something like that of Trump and I’ve seen what happens in such a fight.

    It’s not like we haven’t already seen this with Trump.

    One thing I will say with regard to the age question. It is not just the age,  it also has to do with the cultural aspects of the generations. I’m in the generation before Trump and I am certain I don’t have a solid understanding of the youngest generations that are voting now but I’m pretty sure that is where much of our opposition is.

    • #56
  27. Nanocelt TheContrarian Member
    Nanocelt TheContrarian
    @NanoceltTheContrarian

    SO explain me this:  If Trump ran again and won, would he not be confined to one term?  If so, his choice of running mate would be crucial. I would say that DeSantis would be his best choice in that circumstance. It would guarantee support from his base, and wide support from across the political spectrum and virtually assure Trump’s re election. DeSantis is the most competent governor I have seen in my lifetime.  He is a solid conservative and willing to fight. If Trump really were interested in saving the nation, he could hardly do better than to win another term with DeSantis on his ticket, ready to step into the Presidency in 2028 and 2032. Trump could potentially provide both another term of his own and 2 more terms of solid conservative governance with demonstrable competence. Given of course that DeSantis’ popularity could survive a term as Trump’s vice president.

    Why would Trump forego such a possibility by attacking DeSantis and threatening him?  Is Trump afraid of DeSantis? What, pray tell, might Trump know about DeSantis that we don’t know about DeSantis?  Is DeSantis a Manchurian Candidate?

    Shane rode off into the sunset of his own choice, wounded but unbowed, acknowledging his own lack of belonging,  when he knew he had done enough and would not be welcome in the society that he sought to assist, because of who and what he was and what he had done.  He could not be persuaded to return.

    I would say to Trump:  Be Shane!

    • #57
  28. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Nanocelt TheContrarian (View Comment):

    SO explain me this: If Trump ran again and won, would he be confined to one term? If so, his choice of running mate would be crucial. I would say that DeSantis would be his best choice in that circumstance. It would guarantee support from his base, and wide support from across the political spectrum. DeSantis is the most competent governor we have seen in my lifetime. He is a solid conservative and willing to fight. If Trump really were interested in saving the nation, he could hardly do better than to win another term with DeSantis on his ticket, ready to step into the Presidency in 2028 and 2032. Trump could potentially provide both another term of his own and 2 more terms of solid conservative governance with demonstrable competence. Given of course that DeSantis’ popularity could survive a term as Trump’s vice president.

    Why would Trump forego such a possibility by attacking DeSantis and threatening him? Is Trump afraid of DeSantis. What, pray tell, might Trump know about DeSantis that we don’t know about DeSantis? Is DeSantis a Manchurian Candidate?

    Shane road off into the sunset of his own choice, wounded but unbowed, acknowledging his own lack of belonging, when he knew he had done enough and would not be welcome in the society that he sought to assist, because of who and what he was.

    I would say to Trump: Be Shane!

    To do this Trump would need to change his residence to another state since the President and Vice-President cannot come from the same state and DeSantis is the Governor.

    • #58
  29. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Nanocelt TheContrarian (View Comment):

    SO explain me this: If Trump ran again and won, would he be confined to one term? If so, his choice of running mate would be crucial. I would say that DeSantis would be his best choice in that circumstance. It would guarantee support from his base, and wide support from across the political spectrum. DeSantis is the most competent governor we have seen in my lifetime. He is a solid conservative and willing to fight. If Trump really were interested in saving the nation, he could hardly do better than to win another term with DeSantis on his ticket, ready to step into the Presidency in 2028 and 2032. Trump could potentially provide both another term of his own and 2 more terms of solid conservative governance with demonstrable competence. Given of course that DeSantis’ popularity could survive a term as Trump’s vice president.

    Why would Trump forego such a possibility by attacking DeSantis and threatening him? Is Trump afraid of DeSantis. What, pray tell, might Trump know about DeSantis that we don’t know about DeSantis? Is DeSantis a Manchurian Candidate?

    Shane road off into the sunset of his own choice, wounded but unbowed, acknowledging his own lack of belonging, when he knew he had done enough and would not be welcome in the society that he sought to assist, because of who and what he was.

    I would say to Trump: Be Shane!

    To do this Trump would need to change his residence to another state since the President and Vice-President cannot come from the same state and DeSantis is the Governor.

    To be Captain Pedant, they can be from the same state if you’re willing to write off those electors. Not a good plan, even if it’s a team like Ben and Jerry from Vermont and their three electors, but allowable.

    • #59
  30. Nanocelt TheContrarian Member
    Nanocelt TheContrarian
    @NanoceltTheContrarian

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Nanocelt TheContrarian (View Comment):

    SO explain me this: If Trump ran again and won, would he be confined to one term? If so, his choice of running mate would be crucial. I would say that DeSantis would be his best choice in that circumstance. It would guarantee support from his base, and wide support from across the political spectrum. DeSantis is the most competent governor we have seen in my lifetime. He is a solid conservative and willing to fight. If Trump really were interested in saving the nation, he could hardly do better than to win another term with DeSantis on his ticket, ready to step into the Presidency in 2028 and 2032. Trump could potentially provide both another term of his own and 2 more terms of solid conservative governance with demonstrable competence. Given of course that DeSantis’ popularity could survive a term as Trump’s vice president.

    Why would Trump forego such a possibility by attacking DeSantis and threatening him? Is Trump afraid of DeSantis. What, pray tell, might Trump know about DeSantis that we don’t know about DeSantis? Is DeSantis a Manchurian Candidate?

    Shane road off into the sunset of his own choice, wounded but unbowed, acknowledging his own lack of belonging, when he knew he had done enough and would not be welcome in the society that he sought to assist, because of who and what he was.

    I would say to Trump: Be Shane!

    To do this Trump would need to change his residence to another state since the President and Vice-President cannot come from the same state and DeSantis is the Governor.

    Not true. The Electors from Florida would not be able to vote for both Trump and DeSantis. Presumably, they would vote for Trump. If the remaining States provided enough electoral votes for both Trump and De Santis to elect DeSantis, the electoral votes from Florida Electors would not make a difference. Otherwise, the election of DeSantis would have to go to the Senate. But there is nothing in the 12th Amendment that absolutely bars the President and Vice President from being from the same State. 

    Or Trump could move back to New York.

    • #60
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