‘He Fired Up the Crazies’ – Sen. John McCain

 

My pal Gary Robbins has a post up critical of Arizona gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake having told people who “love John McCain” to “get the hell out” of one of her rallies.  Another Ricochet regular, @painterjean, has been critical of Lake’s comment in a couple of other comment threads.  I think that they raise an important point, but I want to explain the context.

There was a bitter feud between Donald Trump and former Arizona Sen. John McCain.  In many ways, McCain became emblematic of the “establishment GOP” opposition to Trump’s candidacy and agenda.  At first, I was more of an establishment Republican myself, and strongly opposed Trump in the primaries.  I avoided digging in my heels by adopting a “NeverTrump” position, and once he won the nomination, gave him a chance to make his case for my vote in 2016.

I thought that Trump did so, and I voted for him, with some trepidation, in 2016.  His governance won me over, and I became a pretty enthusiastic supporter.  To the point of having a post here at Ricochet showing my ugly mug wearing my new MAGA hat.

I think that McCain was clearly the aggressor in the feud with Trump.  Very early in Trump’s campaign, in July 2015, McCain responded to Trump’s immigration message, in a rally in Arizona, by accusing Trump of “firing up the crazies.”  (One of many stories here.)

This from Senator “Gang-of-Eight” himself, who probably did more than any other politician in America to prevent useful action to secure the border, for a decade or more, while millions of illegals swarmed into our country and our state.

If anything, it got worse.  Many of you might not recall the effort to repeal Obamacare in 2017.  President Trump had taken office, and Republicans controlled both the House and the Senate.  There were a variety of repeal bills, culminating in the following on July 27, 2017 (this is the Wikipedia explanation, here):

The skinny repeal, which was still being drafted on July 27, only repeals some provisions of the ACA, among them the individual mandate, requiring that all Americans buy insurance or pay a tax penalty, and parts of the employer mandate, which requires employers with greater than 50 employees to pay for health care for their employees.[111][112] The bill was brought to the floor vote and the vote reached the predicted 49–50, majority being in favor of keeping the ACA as is. A tie would have allowed Vice President Mike Pence to cast a final tie breaking vote. The final vote was to be McCain, who walked to the floor in near silence and held out his hand. In a very climactic moment, he gave a thumbs down and the bill was rejected 49–51, with two other Republican senators, Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski, siding with all Democrats and Independents.

I had voted for McCain as my Senator, on many occasions, and I voted for him for President in 2008.  In his last Senate run, he campaigned on repealing Obamacare.  But he was the deciding vote against that repeal.

I can hardly express how infuriating this action was.  McCain was already stricken with the cancer that would eventually be fatal.  His dramatic “thumbs down” doesn’t seem like a thumbs down, to me.  It feels like a giant middle finger, raised to President Trump, and to me.

So by that time, I wasn’t much of a fan of McCain.

Then he died.  And oh, Lord, the tributes were just sickening to me.  It felt like the Democrats and the establishment GOP made every effort to genuflect to the backstabbing McCain.  Once again, it felt like a giant middle finger raised to President Trump, and to me.

I don’t think that this is an overreaction.  I don’t recall any state funeral that received as much attention as McCain’s, perhaps until the multiple funerals of St. George of Minneapolis.  McCain was given the unusual honor of lying in state in the Capitol Rotunda.  Here’s a list of those so honored between 2000 and 2020:

  • President Ronald Reagan
  • President Gerald Ford
  • Sen. Daniel Inouye
  • Sen. John McCain
  • President George Bush
  • Rep. John R. Lewis

That’s some pretty heady company.  Why did McCain get this special treatment?  I think that it was political theater, directed at President Trump.

There was even a cross-country funeral procession, apparently, like McCain was Winston Churchill or something.

I don’t think that this is an overreaction on my part.  Here is a New Yorker article at the time, titled “John McCain’s Funeral Was The Biggest Resistance Movement Yet.”  Here’s the opening paragraph:

Donald Trump’s name was never mentioned.  It didn’t have to be.  The funeral service for John Sidney McCain III, at the Washington National Cathedral, on this swampy Saturday morning, was all about a rebuke to the pointedly uninvited current President of the United States, which was exactly how McCain had planned it.

Guess who was there to eulogize McCain.  Two former Presidents, Barack Obama and George W. Bush.  What a perfect illustration of how the establishment GOP was united with the Democrats against President Trump and his supporters, including me.

So this is the context, folks.  Like Ricardo Montalban in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, McCain apparently planned his own funeral as a way to stab at Trump from Hell’s heart. I found the whole episode despicable.

I hope that this gives you some insight into the Trump-McCain feud, and the perspective of this particular Arizona voter.

When Kari Lake asked, as Gary’s post reported, “are there any people here who love John McCain,” this is the history that she was referencing.  McCain despised us, backstabbed us on immigration and Obamacare, and used his friggin’ funeral to give us the metaphorical finger, one last time.

So yeah, maybe “get the hell out” is an understandable thing to say to Arizona voters who love John McCain.

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  1. GrannyDude Member
    GrannyDude
    @GrannyDude

    Nicely done, Jerry. Well-argued, with excellent supporting evidence. 

    • #1
  2. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Was he always such a jerk or did his experiences in the war break him?

    • #2
  3. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Honestly “Get the hell out!” Is first cousins to Reagan’s 1974 “let them go their own way” remark.  Blunter to be sure.  But it’s the same message directed to the same audience.

     

    ”  … A political party cannot be all things to all people. It must represent certain fundamental beliefs which must not be compromised to political expediency, or simply to swell its numbers.”

    “I do not believe I have proposed anything that is contrary to what has been considered Republican principle. It is at the same time the very basis of conservatism. It is time to reassert that principle and raise it to full view. And if there are those who cannot subscribe to these principles, then let them go their way.” -RR 1974

    • #3
  4. Columbo Member
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2Ya5EbopVs

     

    • #4
  5. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    I wasn’t going to read this post, but I’m glad I did.

    • #5
  6. Some Call Me ...Tim Coolidge
    Some Call Me ...Tim
    @SomeCallMeTim

    Except for his very admirable service as a POW, McCain’s entire life was all about John McCain. 

    • #6
  7. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    I want to add a comment about Sen. Daniel Inouye.  I remembered him somewhat, but looked him up during the course of writing this post, for comparison purposes to Sen. McCain.

    Sen. Inouye was a Democrat.  It looks to me like he was a great American.  He was born in Hawaii, of Japanese ancestry.  His father was a Japanese immigrant, and his mother was a first-generation Japanese-American.  In the time of the Japanese Internment, he fought in the famous Japanese-American 442nd Infantry Regiment.  He fought the Nazis in Italy, then in France, then again in Italy.

    He received a battlefield commission to Second Lieutenant.  In an assault on German machine-gun nests along the Gothic Line in Italy, he was shot in the stomach.  He proceeded with the attack anyway, approaching a machine-gun nest and pulling a grenade.  He was then shot by a German rifle grenade, which did not explode but which almost amputated his right arm at the elbow.  In that right hand, he was holding his own live grenade, and his near-amputated limb continued to hold the grenade.  His platoon moved to help him, and he shouted them back for fear that he would drop his grenade and hurt them.  He used his left hand to take the grenade out of his useless, dangling right hand, and tossed it into the German machine-gun nest, killing the German who wounded him.  He then attacked again, killing at least one more German before being shot, again, in the leg this time.

    Inouye eventually received the Medal of Honor for this.  Wow.  Just wow.

    He became friends with future Sen. Bob Dole during rehabilitation, as Dole was also recovering from a bad arm wound.

    Inouye had planned to become a surgeon, but could not do so after losing his arm.  He returned to college and became a lawyer.  He was elected as Hawaii’s first Congressman upon statehood, and then was elected Senator in 1962.

    He served as one of Hawaii’s Senators for just over 50 years, until his death in December 2012.  He was President Pro Tem of the Senate for just over 2 years.  His service as President Pro Tem made him the highest-ranking Asian-American in the US government, not just at that time, but through the end of his lifetime. 

    I did not agree with Sen. Inouye’s politics in many ways.  But I think that he truly deserved to lie in state in the Capitol.  What a remarkable American life.

    • #7
  8. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Django (View Comment):

    Was he always such a jerk or did his experiences in the war break him?

    Sorry, I don’t know.

    I do recall McCain being annoying, probably in the late 1990s and early 2000s.  He was a pretty solid conservative at the time, as a voting matter, but seemed to be the darling of the media every time he disagreed with the Republican Party.  Oil drilling in ANWR and immigration are the two issues that I recall in this area.

    I don’t think that every Republican has to agree about absolutely every issue, but when one doesn’t, I think that it’s best to keep relatively quiet about it, as opposed to rushing onto the Sunday morning news shows to talk about how the rest of the Republicans are so very wrong on that particular issue.

    This did occur before I became a believer, as I now have better things to do at church on a Sunday morning.  :)

    • #8
  9. Vance Richards Member
    Vance Richards
    @VanceRichards

    Some Call Me …Tim (View Comment):

    Except for his very admirable service as a POW, McCain’s entire life was all about John McCain.

    He voted against the Obamacare repeal because Trump would have gotten the credit. He voted against Bush’s tax cuts because Bush would get the credit. He seemed like a small spiteful man and nothing that he did in the 70’s changes the type of person he was as a senator. He loved the adoration of the MSM and if bad mouthing conservatives and Christians is what it took to impress the press, then so be it. Sending troops was his solution to any foreign affair. I have to say, for all the times I was upset that Obama got elected, there was never one instance when I said, “I wish McCain was president.”

    • #9
  10. Doug Watt Moderator
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    McCain built a very effective political machine in Arizona to benefit John McCain. In my time in Arizona I lived in Pinal County, a reliably Red county. Even reliably Red didn’t mean that Republicans were willing to campaign for one another. A Dem had no real chance in Pinal County but there was more than enough disdain leftover for their fellow Republicans.

    I think the, you must receive the McCain family blessing era has ended. An unorganized Republican Party still seems to be the norm.

    Maricopa County is the most populous county in Arizona. You have to carry that county, or at least win 30 to 40 percent of that vote to win a statewide election. Just like Oregon, Arizona has a rural divide. Flagstaff, the metro Phoenix area, and Tucson have become Blue.

    Katie Hobbs may end up winning the Governor’s race. That’s too bad because she is no more than a Patty Murray. A bag of hammers is smarter than both of them.  

     

    • #10
  11. Franco Inactive
    Franco
    @Franco

    John McCain was never really a Republican. He’s a complete fraud.
    He continually trashed conservative Republicans to the MSM.
    Before being completely red-pilled by 2010, I still refused to vote for him and I have no regrets. Mc Cain would have been a worse President than Obama was and would have destroyed the Republican Party ( wait, maybe I was wrong after all…)

    He wanted Joe Lieberman as his running mate. I mean, even for an establishment Republican this is betrayal.

    Lieberman was a socialist through and through but he was a war hawk on behalf of Israel in the Middle East. The only reason he didn’t was he was shown how tepid his support would have been.

    Later he picked a VP as a ruse to entice conservatives to vote for him. This is how shameless he was. He hated Palin, and hated the ‘whackobirds’ who were merely ordinary people who disagreed with his policies and didn’t trust him. Quite unAmerican if you ask me. The guy who ran his campaign now identifies as a Democrat. Gee, when did that start?

    McCain was so vain and disingenuous in his long political career that he raised questions in my mind about where this could have started. Was he ever telling the truth? I now doubt it. I couldn’t  believe anything about this man.

    Turns out he was a perennial screw-up and those who lionize him for being a POW and a ‘victim’ who refused special treatment are not aware of basic realities.

    First, that’s what you’re supposed to do. But beyond that, he knew that taking special treatment would have doomed him after the war.

    If you’re in prison for criminals and get beaten up, you aren’t a hero for not reporting it to the guards. You’re smart.

    He was an important POW, and therefore knew he’d be okay. No matter what. More likely to survive than his fellow prisoners, for sure. So I’m not especially impressed. I say this in the context of the hundreds of thousands of other POWs from various wars who also didn’t get special treatment, were tortured and killed and who otherwise never married some rich gal and had a charmed political life being called a hero constantly.

    • #11
  12. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Franco (View Comment):

    John McCain was never really a Republican. He’s a complete fraud.
    He continually trashed conservative Republicans to the MSM.
    Before being completely red-pilled by 2010, I still refused to vote for him and I have no regrets. Mc Cain would have been a worse President than Obama was and would have destroyed the Republican Party ( wait, maybe I was wrong after all…)

    He wanted Joe Lieberman as his running mate. I mean, even for an establishment Republican this is betrayal.

    Lieberman was a socialist through and through but he was a war hawk on behalf of Israel in the Middle East. The only reason he didn’t was he was shown how tepid his support would have been.

    Later he picked a VP as a ruse to entice conservatives to vote for him. This is how shameless he was. He hated Palin, and hated the ‘whackobirds’ who were merely ordinary people who disagreed with his policies and didn’t trust him. Quite unAmerican if you ask me. The guy who ran his campaign now identifies as a Democrat. Gee, when did that start?

    McCain was so vain and disingenuous in his long political career that he raised questions in my mind about where this could have started. Was he ever telling the truth? I now doubt it. I couldn’t believe anything about this man.

    Turns out he was a perennial screw-up and those who lionize him for being a POW and a ‘victim’ who refused special treatment are not aware of basic realities.

    First, that’s what you’re supposed to do. But beyond that, he knew that taking special treatment would have doomed him after the war.

    If you’re in prison for criminals and get beaten up, you aren’t a hero for not reporting it to the guards. You’re smart.

    He was an important POW, and therefore knew he’d be okay. No matter what. More likely to survive than his fellow prisoners, for sure. So I’m not especially impressed. I say this in the context of the hundreds of thousands of other POWs from various wars who also didn’t get special treatment, were tortured and killed and who otherwise never married some rich gal and had a charmed political life being called a hero constantly.

    About the only good thing I can say about McCain, vs John Kerry for example, is that McCain only married for money ONCE.

    As for Meghan McCain loving her father, so what?  Gul Dukat’s daughter loved her father too.  He was still a galactic menace.

    • #12
  13. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    What Lake said was not a good move politically because you should never insult potential voters.  Still, I can agree with her sentiment.  While McCain behaved admirably during his terrible time as a POW, he was horrific as a politician, loyal only to himself and his ego.  In fact, he was a lot like Trump in that he took umbrage to personal insults (I do believe this is the first time I’ve ever used “umbrage” in a sentence).  However, taking that personal animosity and using it to strike back at Trump by not voting for the skinny repeal of Obamacare was heinous, to say the least . . .

    • #13
  14. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):

    John McCain was never really a Republican. He’s a complete fraud.
    He continually trashed conservative Republicans to the MSM.
    Before being completely red-pilled by 2010, I still refused to vote for him and I have no regrets. Mc Cain would have been a worse President than Obama was and would have destroyed the Republican Party ( wait, maybe I was wrong after all…)

    He wanted Joe Lieberman as his running mate. I mean, even for an establishment Republican this is betrayal.

    Lieberman was a socialist through and through but he was a war hawk on behalf of Israel in the Middle East. The only reason he didn’t was he was shown how tepid his support would have been.

    Later he picked a VP as a ruse to entice conservatives to vote for him. This is how shameless he was. He hated Palin, and hated the ‘whackobirds’ who were merely ordinary people who disagreed with his policies and didn’t trust him. Quite unAmerican if you ask me. The guy who ran his campaign now identifies as a Democrat. Gee, when did that start?

    McCain was so vain and disingenuous in his long political career that he raised questions in my mind about where this could have started. Was he ever telling the truth? I now doubt it. I couldn’t believe anything about this man.

    Turns out he was a perennial screw-up and those who lionize him for being a POW and a ‘victim’ who refused special treatment are not aware of basic realities.

    First, that’s what you’re supposed to do. But beyond that, he knew that taking special treatment would have doomed him after the war.

    If you’re in prison for criminals and get beaten up, you aren’t a hero for not reporting it to the guards. You’re smart.

    He was an important POW, and therefore knew he’d be okay. No matter what. More likely to survive than his fellow prisoners, for sure. So I’m not especially impressed. I say this in the context of the hundreds of thousands of other POWs from various wars who also didn’t get special treatment, were tortured and killed and who otherwise never married some rich gal and had a charmed political life being called a hero constantly.

    About the only good thing I can say about McCain, vs John Kerry for example, is that McCain only married for money ONCE.

    As for Meghan McCain loving her father, so what? Gul Dukat’s daughter loved her father too. He was still a galactic menace.

    Dukat wasn’t so bad, once you got to know him.  :)  Well, until he was possessed by the Pah-wraiths.

    • #14
  15. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):

    John McCain was never really a Republican. He’s a complete fraud.
    He continually trashed conservative Republicans to the MSM.
    Before being completely red-pilled by 2010, I still refused to vote for him and I have no regrets. Mc Cain would have been a worse President than Obama was and would have destroyed the Republican Party ( wait, maybe I was wrong after all…)

    He wanted Joe Lieberman as his running mate. I mean, even for an establishment Republican this is betrayal.

    Lieberman was a socialist through and through but he was a war hawk on behalf of Israel in the Middle East. The only reason he didn’t was he was shown how tepid his support would have been.

    Later he picked a VP as a ruse to entice conservatives to vote for him. This is how shameless he was. He hated Palin, and hated the ‘whackobirds’ who were merely ordinary people who disagreed with his policies and didn’t trust him. Quite unAmerican if you ask me. The guy who ran his campaign now identifies as a Democrat. Gee, when did that start?

    McCain was so vain and disingenuous in his long political career that he raised questions in my mind about where this could have started. Was he ever telling the truth? I now doubt it. I couldn’t believe anything about this man.

    Turns out he was a perennial screw-up and those who lionize him for being a POW and a ‘victim’ who refused special treatment are not aware of basic realities.

    First, that’s what you’re supposed to do. But beyond that, he knew that taking special treatment would have doomed him after the war.

    If you’re in prison for criminals and get beaten up, you aren’t a hero for not reporting it to the guards. You’re smart.

    He was an important POW, and therefore knew he’d be okay. No matter what. More likely to survive than his fellow prisoners, for sure. So I’m not especially impressed. I say this in the context of the hundreds of thousands of other POWs from various wars who also didn’t get special treatment, were tortured and killed and who otherwise never married some rich gal and had a charmed political life being called a hero constantly.

    About the only good thing I can say about McCain, vs John Kerry for example, is that McCain only married for money ONCE.

    As for Meghan McCain loving her father, so what? Gul Dukat’s daughter loved her father too. He was still a galactic menace.

    Dukat wasn’t so bad, once you got to know him. :) Well, until he was possessed by the Pah-wraiths.

    Several million Bajorans disagree.

    • #15
  16. Chris O Coolidge
    Chris O
    @ChrisO

    Stad (View Comment):
    (I do believe this is the first time I’ve ever used “umbrage” in a sentence)

    Club Membership and, more importantly, dues invoice are on the way.

     

    Jerry ( @arizonapatriot ), what an outstanding post. Thank you for providing a circumspect view of this.

    • #16
  17. DonG (CAGW is a Scam) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Scam)
    @DonG

    Stad (View Comment):
    What Lake said was not a good move politically because you should never insult potential voters.  Still, I can agree with her sentiment. 

    I think what she did was tell the suck-ups to the McCain machine to switch their loyalty to the GOP instead of the McCain family.   AZ needs that.

    • #17
  18. DonG (CAGW is a Scam) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Scam)
    @DonG

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…: That’s some pretty heady company.  Why did McCain get this special treatment?  I think that it was political theater, directed at President Trump.

    And Nancy added Brian Sicknic in 2021.   She is such a petty wench.

     

    Brian Sicknick Lies In Honor At The Capitol Rotunda : Capitol Insurrection  Updates : NPR

    • #18
  19. Painter Jean Moderator
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    Nothing has changed my basic point, which is, don’t ever tell voters that you don’t want them to vote for you. Never. It’s moronic on an epic scale. Nothing about McCain’s story is relevant to what ought to be common sense for any candidate. 

    • #19
  20. Ole Summers Member
    Ole Summers
    @OleSummers

    Really good job. I know that AZ catches a lot of escapees from CA which hurts the ratio in such a politically evenly divided state but a positive move toward joining Texas, Florida and the like is the defanging of the McCain machine. Texas has been fighting it way out from under the more establishment uni-party Republicans since Cruz ran for the Senate and has almost made it – and is better governed because of it.

     

    • #20
  21. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Nothing has changed my basic point, which is, don’t ever tell voters that you don’t want them to vote for you. Never. It’s moronic on an epic scale. Nothing about McCain’s story is relevant to what ought to be common sense for any candidate.

    I think that you’re wrong.  I’ll try to explain it again.

    It is possible that telling some voters to, um, buzz off will attract a lot more other voters to you.

    Do you think that this is absolutely impossible in all circumstances?  If so, then I think that you are incorrect.  If not, then your comment is incorrect.

    • #21
  22. BDB Coolidge
    BDB
    @BDB

    Great post, Jerry.  People who weren’t Tea Party or Red-Pilled back then forget what a sleazebag and frankly AWFUL Republican McCain was.  The Republican party was just so much firewood to him, particularly on any cold Sunday morning.

    • #22
  23. Painter Jean Moderator
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Nothing has changed my basic point, which is, don’t ever tell voters that you don’t want them to vote for you. Never. It’s moronic on an epic scale. Nothing about McCain’s story is relevant to what ought to be common sense for any candidate.

    I think that you’re wrong. I’ll try to explain it again.

    It is possible that telling some voters to, um, buzz off will attract a lot more other voters to you.

    Do you think that this is absolutely impossible in all circumstances? If so, then I think that you are incorrect. If not, then your comment is incorrect.

    If Kari Lake was way ahead in her election, you might have a case. But if she pulls out a victory, it will be by a very slim margin. Perhaps she alienated some voters with her comments who would have otherwise have supported her.

    Telling voters to “get the hell out” is just plain idiotic. No doubt it fired up those who were already on board, but it did not widen her voter base. Maybe some voters heard that and were very turned off by it and decided against her. My point is, there is nothing to gain and very possibly something to lose when you say something as moronic as that. It’s like Trump making comments about Megyn Kelly menstruating – probably his die-hard fans loved it, but it might have turned off other women. There’s simply no good reason to tell people not to vote for you. That ought to be obvious.

    • #23
  24. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Nothing has changed my basic point, which is, don’t ever tell voters that you don’t want them to vote for you. Never. It’s moronic on an epic scale. Nothing about McCain’s story is relevant to what ought to be common sense for any candidate.

    I think that you’re wrong. I’ll try to explain it again.

    It is possible that telling some voters to, um, buzz off will attract a lot more other voters to you.

    Do you think that this is absolutely impossible in all circumstances? If so, then I think that you are incorrect. If not, then your comment is incorrect.

    If Kari Lake was way ahead in her election, you might have a case. But if she pulls out a victory, it will be by a very slim margin. Perhaps she alienated some voters with her comments who would have otherwise have supported her.

    Telling voters to “get the hell out” is just plain idiotic. No doubt it fired up those who were already on board, but it did not widen her voter base. Maybe some voters heard that and were very turned off by it and decided against her. My point is, there is nothing to gain and very possibly something to lose when you say something as moronic as that. It’s like Trump making comments about Megyn Kelly menstruating – probably his die-hard fans loved it, but it might have turned off other women. There’s simply no good reason to tell people not to vote for you. That ought to be obvious.

    That’s your assertion and you’re of course free to have it, but situations such as McCain in Arizona might be cases that are outside of the realm of your assertion.  If McCain was otherwise a good senator etc, then your argument is more valid.  But McCain did put off a lot of people, perhaps even some erstwhile Republicans who became Independent (or actually switched to Democrat, although I can’t imagine why), and an indication that a new paradigm was beginning that would no longer worship McCain, could bring them back in larger numbers than any who might be put off by it.

    (He says, having lived and voted in Arizona for 30 years.)

    • #24
  25. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Nothing has changed my basic point, which is, don’t ever tell voters that you don’t want them to vote for you. Never. It’s moronic on an epic scale. Nothing about McCain’s story is relevant to what ought to be common sense for any candidate.

    I think that you’re wrong. I’ll try to explain it again.

    It is possible that telling some voters to, um, buzz off will attract a lot more other voters to you.

    Do you think that this is absolutely impossible in all circumstances? If so, then I think that you are incorrect. If not, then your comment is incorrect.

    I would have been glad to tell David Duke not to vote for me. George Lincoln Rockwell either — for those old enough to remember him. So “never” is wrong. 

    • #25
  26. Painter Jean Moderator
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    BDB (View Comment):

    Great post, Jerry. People who weren’t Tea Party or Red-Pilled back then forget what a sleazebag and frankly AWFUL Republican McCain was. The Republican party was just so much firewood to him, particularly on any cold Sunday morning.

    This really doesn’t have anything to do with McCain. This has to do with the idiocy of telling voters to get the hell out. Firing up people who were already going to vote for her might feel good, but since it might very well have alienated other voters who then decided not to vote for her, it was a stupid move. 

    • #26
  27. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Great post, Jerry. People who weren’t Tea Party or Red-Pilled back then forget what a sleazebag and frankly AWFUL Republican McCain was. The Republican party was just so much firewood to him, particularly on any cold Sunday morning.

    This really doesn’t have anything to do with McCain. This has to do with the idiocy of telling voters to get the hell out. Firing up people who were already going to vote for her might feel good, but since it might very well have alienated other voters who then decided not to vote for her, it was a stupid move.

    See #24.

    • #27
  28. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Also remember it was the LEFT who seemed to hold McCain in the highest regard, at least among Republicans, but they weren’t going to actually vote for him instead of the Democrat whoever it was.  And when McCain ran for President, he became “literally Hitler” just like every other Republican candidate.

    • #28
  29. Painter Jean Moderator
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Nothing has changed my basic point, which is, don’t ever tell voters that you don’t want them to vote for you. Never. It’s moronic on an epic scale. Nothing about McCain’s story is relevant to what ought to be common sense for any candidate.

    I think that you’re wrong. I’ll try to explain it again.

    It is possible that telling some voters to, um, buzz off will attract a lot more other voters to you.

    Do you think that this is absolutely impossible in all circumstances? If so, then I think that you are incorrect. If not, then your comment is incorrect.

    If Kari Lake was way ahead in her election, you might have a case. But if she pulls out a victory, it will be by a very slim margin. Perhaps she alienated some voters with her comments who would have otherwise have supported her.

    Telling voters to “get the hell out” is just plain idiotic. No doubt it fired up those who were already on board, but it did not widen her voter base. Maybe some voters heard that and were very turned off by it and decided against her. My point is, there is nothing to gain and very possibly something to lose when you say something as moronic as that. It’s like Trump making comments about Megyn Kelly menstruating – probably his die-hard fans loved it, but it might have turned off other women. There’s simply no good reason to tell people not to vote for you. That ought to be obvious.

    That’s your assertion and you’re of course free to have it, but situations such as McCain in Arizona might be cases that are outside of the realm of your assertion. If McCain was otherwise a good senator etc, then your argument is more valid. But McCain did put off a lot of people, perhaps even some erstwhile Republicans who became Independent (or actually switched to Democrat, although I can’t imagine why), and an indication that a new paradigm was beginning that would no longer worship McCain, could bring them back in larger numbers than any who might be put off by it.

    (He says, having lived and voted in Arizona for 30 years.)

    And if Kari Lake had been elected by wide margins, you might have a point. But if she manages to squeak out a victory, it will be by the slimmest of margins. Perhaps she alienated people unnecessarily. If so, it was an unforced error. 

    • #29
  30. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Nothing has changed my basic point, which is, don’t ever tell voters that you don’t want them to vote for you. Never. It’s moronic on an epic scale. Nothing about McCain’s story is relevant to what ought to be common sense for any candidate.

    I think that you’re wrong. I’ll try to explain it again.

    It is possible that telling some voters to, um, buzz off will attract a lot more other voters to you.

    Do you think that this is absolutely impossible in all circumstances? If so, then I think that you are incorrect. If not, then your comment is incorrect.

    If Kari Lake was way ahead in her election, you might have a case. But if she pulls out a victory, it will be by a very slim margin. Perhaps she alienated some voters with her comments who would have otherwise have supported her.

    Telling voters to “get the hell out” is just plain idiotic. No doubt it fired up those who were already on board, but it did not widen her voter base. Maybe some voters heard that and were very turned off by it and decided against her. My point is, there is nothing to gain and very possibly something to lose when you say something as moronic as that. It’s like Trump making comments about Megyn Kelly menstruating – probably his die-hard fans loved it, but it might have turned off other women. There’s simply no good reason to tell people not to vote for you. That ought to be obvious.

    That’s your assertion and you’re of course free to have it, but situations such as McCain in Arizona might be cases that are outside of the realm of your assertion. If McCain was otherwise a good senator etc, then your argument is more valid. But McCain did put off a lot of people, perhaps even some erstwhile Republicans who became Independent (or actually switched to Democrat, although I can’t imagine why), and an indication that a new paradigm was beginning that would no longer worship McCain, could bring them back in larger numbers than any who might be put off by it.

    (He says, having lived and voted in Arizona for 30 years.)

    And if Kari Lake had been elected by wide margins, you might have a point. But if she manages to squeak out a victory, it will be by the slimmest of margins. Perhaps she alienated people unnecessarily. If so, it was an unforced error.

    We have at least one example at ricochet of a voter saying he will vote against her because Trump endorsed her. Can’t please all voters, so you might as well be yourself. 

    • #30
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