The Big Lie about ‘The Big Lie’

 

William Sullivan, at The American Thinker, writes [emphasis mine]:

With only a few days left until the 2022 midterms, Newsweek laments a new poll by Redfield and Wilton Strategies showing that 40 percent of Americans still believe that the 2020 presidential election was “rigged or stolen.”

This is presented as a shocking revelation about the number of Americans who still buy into the “Big Lie,” despite its “being proven false,” according to the article.

Newsweek buries this particular poll’s more interesting observations.  For example, only 36 percent of respondents disagree that the 2020 election was rigged or stolen.  Of that group, more than one in three find it “understandable” that others might believe that the election was rigged or stolen.  Another 15 percent of respondents neither agreed nor disagreed, and 8 percent signified that they “didn’t know.”

One way to characterize these data is the manner in which Newsweek does, which is to suggest that a horrifying 40 percent of Americans believe in what a bipartisan mainstream media blitz has promoted as “the Big Lie” for nearly two years.

A far more accurate way to characterize these data, though, is to recognize that there are more Americans confident that the election was rigged than there are Americans who are confident that it was all on the up and up.

That already paints a different picture of the prevalence of these supposedly fringe “election deniers.”  And when we factor in those who believe that the election was not rigged, but understand why Americans are skeptical based upon the facts they’ve observed, we find that over three in four Americans (or 75.2 percent, given Newsweek’s numbers) think the election was rigged, understand why other Americans think the election was rigged, don’t know whether or not the election was rigged, or refused to take a position on the subject of a rigged election while talking to a pollster.

In other words, fewer than one in four Americans is confident that the election was legitimate and is completely flummoxed as to how anyone could question its integrity.  That’s a remarkable figure, standing athwart the message being delivered by the senile occupant of the Oval Office, who routinely argues that anyone who questions that election’s integrity is not only a fringe radical, but an enemy of democracy and a potential insurrectionist.

I remain agnostic on whether the 2020 election was “stolen” (though I find laughable the claims that it was “legit” given the number of fraud convictions, irregularities, and other shenanigans that have been (and continued to be) documented). I’ve “moved on,” except in my desire to see things cleaned up to the point where we can trust the process going forward.

I share the article not to rehash the controversies of the election, but simply because I find the numbers cited quite remarkable. Even after years of Big Media outlets banging their propagandist drums about “the most secure election in history,” branding as “Election Deniers” anyone who thinks we ought to take a closer look at some of the things that don’t pass the proverbial smell test, and dismissing tens of millions of Americans as a “neo-fascist fringe group” promoting “The Big Lie” — even after all that — there are still “more Americans confident that the election was rigged than there are Americans who are confident that it was all on the up and up.”

I find that astonishing.

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  1. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Well, the obvious reason they do that – or one of the obvious reasons, anyway – is they want to make people who believe the election wasn’t legit feel like they’re in a small minority and so shouldn’t make noise.

    • #1
  2. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    As John Hinderrocker says, is the Democrats may not have stolen the election, but they sure tried.

    To me the bigger issue, is that the majority of Americans think it was not the cleanest election and things were wonky. This is not a good place to be in to trust the election process. Comparing people to Holocaust deniers for it is destabilizing. 

     

    • #2
  3. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Freeven: With only a few days left until the 2022 midterms, Newsweek laments a new poll by Redfield and Wilton Strategies showing that 40 percent of Americans still believe that the 2020 presidential election was “rigged or stolen.”

    Because it was.  We aren’t idiots. We have eyes.

    • #3
  4. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Well, those who keep banging on that we should trust the election processes have not provided us with reasons to trust the election processes. They spend enormous amounts of energy knocking anyone who questions the election processes, but no energy explaining why those people should trust the election processes. 

    • #4
  5. The Scarecrow Thatcher
    The Scarecrow
    @TheScarecrow

    It is bad that all of those shenanigans went on without explanation; it was deemed sufficient to tell anyone who asked to shut up. Oh, and call them vile names. 

    It is much worse that none of the questionable voting practices have been cleaned up. We still have mail-in voting, still have all of the early voting, still are probably using the Dominion machines, none of the voter rolls have been cleaned up, etc. 

    Here we go again.

    • #5
  6. GLDIII Purveyor of Splendid Malpropisms Reagan
    GLDIII Purveyor of Splendid Malpropisms
    @GLDIII

    One can tell that to a very measurable extent that the Democrats endorse these shady election rules. They don’t believe in the use of photo IDs, forcing the use of drop boxes, practice harvesting of ballots, insist on sending out unrequested ballots, and allof which are based on bloated voter roles

    It must be working.

    Other wise why are they absolutely adamant that these practices, which previous election investigations (include that gem of an ex president Jimmy Carter), have documented are the best avenue to commit large scale fraud. This was their number one priority after installing FJB with their proposed SB1 and HR1 to enshrine their electoral corruption

    To quote Old Harry Reid “It worked didn’t it”

    • #6
  7. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    We have to fix this problem. If, for any reason, foreign governments think we do not have legitimately elected representatives, I can’t imagine the consequences.

     

    • #7
  8. mildlyo Member
    mildlyo
    @mildlyo

    Molly Hemingway continues to hit home runs on coverage of the efforts to prevent another 2020. Her latest is wonderful: https://thefederalist.com/2022/11/04/if-republicans-win-on-tuesday-thank-the-election-integrity-movement/

     

    • #8
  9. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Freeven: In other words, fewer than one in four Americans is confident that the election was legitimate and is completely flummoxed as to how anyone could question its integrity.

    What isn’t said here is that, though for all I know the election’s integrity is a very big and on-going deal to a conservative minority of the electorate, the great spread of questioning election integrity and of spreading this belief in election rigging to the American populace is done by Biden himself and his continued speeches on it.

    It seems to me that the spread of the falsity of the 2020 election was not so widely spread due to the writings here on Ricochet or the writings of Mollie Hemmingway and others on the Federalist, but the mention of it on liberal-leaning websites that are always bringing it up to say it didn’t happen.

    Just like Trump had a great political advantage merely because of his name recognition, generated in large part by the anti-Trump leftist Press, it seems likely that in the same way Election Denial has gotten billions of dollars of name recognition from the president and the Press.

    After all Election Denial is in the news even today by Press agents who keep challenging candidates to defend their supposed “election denial”.

    How long can the electorate continue to hear about it without saying, Where there’s smoke there’s fire?

    • #9
  10. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    MarciN (View Comment):

    We have to fix this problem. If for any reason foreign governments think we do not have legitimately elected representatives, I can’t imagine the consequences.

    Too late. We’ve emboldened our enemies (China, Russia, Iran. . .) by the sketchy election (putting it mildly) of basement dweller Joe Biden. 

    Mollie says, If Republicans Win on Tuesday, Thank the Election Integrity Movement. That’s a big “if” in close races in Democrat controlled (manipulated) districts, but we’ll have the answer shortly. 

    • #10
  11. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    I have an odd view of elections.  Back in high school we played euchre like it was a religion.  All games were 100% legit.  We were all cheating.   Later in life I worked elections at the county level.  Same rule applies.  It was like high school euchre games.  Everybody cheating, everybody childish, everybody petty.  

    • #11
  12. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    The Republican Attorney General Mark Brnovich just went on 60 Minutes and said that the Big Lie was just that, that the allegation that Biden stole the election are horse “sh*t.”  https://youtu.be/nJem4dFgs6Q

    He is a Republican.  He is our outgoing Attorney General.  He investigated and ran down all of the allegations where other identified so called “dead people” to find out that they were, um, not dead.  And he said that the folks in “The Big Lie” are “clowns” who are peddling “horsesh*t.”

    The Republican Party will not win as along as we embrace Election Deniers, and the Democrat Party will not win as long as they embrace anti-Semites like Ilhan Omar.  

    Back to you.

    • #12
  13. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The Republican Attorney General Mark Brnovich just went on 60 Minutes and said that the Big Lie was just that, that the allegation that Biden stole the election are horse “sh*t.” https://youtu.be/nJem4dFgs6Q

    He is a Republican. He is our outgoing Attorney General. He investigated and ran down all of the allegations where other identified so called “dead people” to find out that they were, um, not dead. And he said that the folks in “The Big Lie” are “clowns” who are peddling “horsesh*t.”

    The Republican Party will not win as along as we embrace Election Deniers, and the Democrat Party will not win as long as they embrace anti-Semites like Ilhan Omar.

    Back to you.

    Okay, this is all I really need. 

    Is anyone claiming that BIDEN stole the election?

    Not that I know of.

    So if that’s what Brnovich actually claimed, he’s lying.

    • #13
  14. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The Republican Attorney General Mark Brnovich just went on 60 Minutes and said that the Big Lie was just that, that the allegation that Biden stole the election are horse “sh*t.” https://youtu.be/nJem4dFgs6Q

    He is a Republican. He is our outgoing Attorney General. He investigated and ran down all of the allegations where other identified so called “dead people” to find out that they were, um, not dead. And he said that the folks in “The Big Lie” are “clowns” who are peddling “horsesh*t.”

    The Republican Party will not win as along as we embrace Election Deniers, and the Democrat Party will not win as long as they embrace anti-Semites like Ilhan Omar.

    Back to you.

    Okay, this is all I really need.

    Is anyone claiming that BIDEN stole the election?

    Not that I know of.

    So if that’s what Brnovich actually claimed, he’s lying.

    Brnovich had the resources and motive to find election fraud in Arizona.  He didn’t find it.

    • #14
  15. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The Republican Attorney General Mark Brnovich just went on 60 Minutes and said that the Big Lie was just that, that the allegation that Biden stole the election are horse “sh*t.” https://youtu.be/nJem4dFgs6Q

    He is a Republican. He is our outgoing Attorney General. He investigated and ran down all of the allegations where other identified so called “dead people” to find out that they were, um, not dead. And he said that the folks in “The Big Lie” are “clowns” who are peddling “horsesh*t.”

    The Republican Party will not win as along as we embrace Election Deniers, and the Democrat Party will not win as long as they embrace anti-Semites like Ilhan Omar.

    Back to you.

    Okay, this is all I really need.

    Is anyone claiming that BIDEN stole the election?

    Not that I know of.

    So if that’s what Brnovich actually claimed, he’s lying.

    Brnovich had the resources and motive to find election fraud in Arizona. He didn’t find it.

    Among other things, that depends what he was looking for.  I lived in Arizona for 30 years, and I remember reports at each election of numerous voter registration confirmations, especially same-day, coming back undeliverable: “no such address,” etc.  There never seemed to be any official follow-ups on those, only some advocacy groups ever did any of that, but they had no authority to do anything about it.

    If officials like Brnovich never did anything, they could claim “no problems” because they kept their eyes closed.

    • #15
  16. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The Republican Attorney General Mark Brnovich just went on 60 Minutes and said that the Big Lie was just that, that the allegation that Biden stole the election are horse “sh*t.” https://youtu.be/nJem4dFgs6Q

    He is a Republican. He is our outgoing Attorney General. He investigated and ran down all of the allegations where other identified so called “dead people” to find out that they were, um, not dead. And he said that the folks in “The Big Lie” are “clowns” who are peddling “horsesh*t.”

    The Republican Party will not win as along as we embrace Election Deniers, and the Democrat Party will not win as long as they embrace anti-Semites like Ilhan Omar.

    Back to you.

    Okay, this is all I really need.

    Is anyone claiming that BIDEN stole the election?

    Not that I know of.

    So if that’s what Brnovich actually claimed, he’s lying.

    Brnovich had the resources and motive to find election fraud in Arizona. He didn’t find it.

    Among other things, that depends what he was looking for. I lived in Arizona for 30 years, and I remember reports at each election of numerous voter registration confirmations, especially same-day, coming back undeliverable: “no such address,” etc. There never seemed to be any official follow-ups on those, only some advocacy groups ever did any of that, but they had no authority to do anything about it.

    If officials like Brnovich never did anything, they could claim “no problems” because they kept their eyes closed.

    Exactly. 

    The majority of Americans think the election was wonky. There is no “lie” there. The people who are actually lying are the ones who say it was near problem free. And of course, anyone using the term “The Big Lie” are themselves, liars. 

    • #16
  17. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The Republican Attorney General Mark Brnovich just went on 60 Minutes and said that the Big Lie was just that, that the allegation that Biden stole the election are horse “sh*t.” https://youtu.be/nJem4dFgs6Q

    He is a Republican. He is our outgoing Attorney General. He investigated and ran down all of the allegations where other identified so called “dead people” to find out that they were, um, not dead. And he said that the folks in “The Big Lie” are “clowns” who are peddling “horsesh*t.”

    The Republican Party will not win as along as we embrace Election Deniers, and the Democrat Party will not win as long as they embrace anti-Semites like Ilhan Omar.

    Back to you.

    Okay, this is all I really need.

    Is anyone claiming that BIDEN stole the election?

    Not that I know of.

    So if that’s what Brnovich actually claimed, he’s lying.

    Brnovich had the resources and motive to find election fraud in Arizona. He didn’t find it.

    Among other things, that depends what he was looking for. I lived in Arizona for 30 years, and I remember reports at each election of numerous voter registration confirmations, especially same-day, coming back undeliverable: “no such address,” etc. There never seemed to be any official follow-ups on those, only some advocacy groups ever did any of that, but they had no authority to do anything about it.

    If officials like Brnovich never did anything, they could claim “no problems” because they kept their eyes closed.

    Exactly.

    The majority of Americans think the election was wonky. There is no “lie” there. The people who are actually lying are the ones who say it was near problem free. And of course, anyone using the term “The Big Lie” are themselves, liars.

    But Gary heard on it 60 Minutes. It must be true! LOL.

    • #17
  18. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The Republican Attorney General Mark Brnovich just went on 60 Minutes and said that the Big Lie was just that, that the allegation that Biden stole the election are horse “sh*t.” https://youtu.be/nJem4dFgs6Q

    He is a Republican. He is our outgoing Attorney General. He investigated and ran down all of the allegations where other identified so called “dead people” to find out that they were, um, not dead. And he said that the folks in “The Big Lie” are “clowns” who are peddling “horsesh*t.”

    The Republican Party will not win as along as we embrace Election Deniers, and the Democrat Party will not win as long as they embrace anti-Semites like Ilhan Omar.

    Back to you.

    Okay, this is all I really need.

    Is anyone claiming that BIDEN stole the election?

    Not that I know of.

    So if that’s what Brnovich actually claimed, he’s lying.

    Brnovich had the resources and motive to find election fraud in Arizona. He didn’t find it.

    Among other things, that depends what he was looking for. I lived in Arizona for 30 years, and I remember reports at each election of numerous voter registration confirmations, especially same-day, coming back undeliverable: “no such address,” etc. There never seemed to be any official follow-ups on those, only some advocacy groups ever did any of that, but they had no authority to do anything about it.

    If officials like Brnovich never did anything, they could claim “no problems” because they kept their eyes closed.

    Exactly.

    The majority of Americans think the election was wonky. There is no “lie” there. The people who are actually lying are the ones who say it was near problem free. And of course, anyone using the term “The Big Lie” are themselves, liars.

    But Gary heard on it 60 Minutes. It must be true! LOL.

    No, I heard it from the Arizona Republican Attorney General who investigated all referred allegations of dead voters, etc., and found them to be, um “horse pucky” cleaning up his language.

    As long as we keep supporting Election Deniers, Republicans are going to have deep problems.

    • #18
  19. Ole Summers Member
    Ole Summers
    @OleSummers

    The point of the American Thinker is that despite the constant drum beat of a media and the passive acceptance of those far too comfortable with the results of 2020, most Americans simply know that is plenty of reason to feel an election conducted like that one is unacceptable. If you decided not to find fraud and didnt, it certainly wasnt because there was not plenty of chance for it. Most people know when such obvious malpractice is staring them in the face. And the issue STILL remains that any changes in law election procedures not enacted by the legislatures made it an unconstitutionally conducted election. I would have hoped that all of the strong hearted “rule of law” advocates would have seen that from the very beginnings and been leading the protests regardless of their presidential choices. 

    The article is saying that regardless of what is now years of Big Lie nonsense, you are unconvincing to a mass majority of Americans. 

    Every election should be able to pass a demanding examination. To expect it is hardly being an “election denier”. 

    • #19
  20. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The Republican Attorney General Mark Brnovich just went on 60 Minutes and said that the Big Lie was just that, that the allegation that Biden stole the election are horse “sh*t.” https://youtu.be/nJem4dFgs6Q

    He is a Republican. He is our outgoing Attorney General. He investigated and ran down all of the allegations where other identified so called “dead people” to find out that they were, um, not dead. And he said that the folks in “The Big Lie” are “clowns” who are peddling “horsesh*t.”

    The Republican Party will not win as along as we embrace Election Deniers, and the Democrat Party will not win as long as they embrace anti-Semites like Ilhan Omar.

    Back to you.

    Okay, this is all I really need.

    Is anyone claiming that BIDEN stole the election?

    Not that I know of.

    So if that’s what Brnovich actually claimed, he’s lying.

    Brnovich had the resources and motive to find election fraud in Arizona. He didn’t find it.

    Among other things, that depends what he was looking for. I lived in Arizona for 30 years, and I remember reports at each election of numerous voter registration confirmations, especially same-day, coming back undeliverable: “no such address,” etc. There never seemed to be any official follow-ups on those, only some advocacy groups ever did any of that, but they had no authority to do anything about it.

    If officials like Brnovich never did anything, they could claim “no problems” because they kept their eyes closed.

    Exactly.

    The majority of Americans think the election was wonky. There is no “lie” there. The people who are actually lying are the ones who say it was near problem free. And of course, anyone using the term “The Big Lie” are themselves, liars.

    But Gary heard on it 60 Minutes. It must be true! LOL.

    No, I heard it from the Arizona Republican Attorney General who investigated all referred allegations of dead voters, etc., and found them to be, um “horse pucky” cleaning up his language.

    As long as we keep supporting Election Deniers, Republicans are going to have deep problems.

    Okay, and what about allegations that were never referred?  Or perhaps other instances that were never even noticed?

    • #20
  21. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Ole Summers (View Comment):

    The point of the American Thinker is that despite the constant drum beat of a media and the passive acceptance of those far too comfortable with the results of 2020, most Americans simply know that is plenty of reason to feel an election conducted like that one is unacceptable. If you decided not to find fraud and didnt, it certainly wasnt because there was not plenty of chance for it. Most people know when such obvious malpractice is staring them in the face. And the issue STILL remains that any changes in law election procedures not enacted by the legislatures made it an unconstitutionally conducted election. I would have hoped that all of the strong hearted “rule of law” advocates would have seen that from the very beginnings and been leading the protests regardless of their presidential choices.

    The article is saying that regardless of what is now years of Big Lie nonsense, you are unconvincing to a mass majority of Americans.

    Perhaps a majority of Republicans repeat the Big Lie nonsense, but not a majority of Americans. 

    Every election should be able to pass a demanding examination. To expect it is hardly being an “election denier”.

    This last election has been examined and examined, and no election fraud was discovered.  Indeed, after the months long hand-recount of Maricopa County, Biden gained a few votes.

    • #21
  22. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Ole Summers (View Comment):

    The point of the American Thinker is that despite the constant drum beat of a media and the passive acceptance of those far too comfortable with the results of 2020, most Americans simply know that is plenty of reason to feel an election conducted like that one is unacceptable. If you decided not to find fraud and didnt, it certainly wasnt because there was not plenty of chance for it. Most people know when such obvious malpractice is staring them in the face. And the issue STILL remains that any changes in law election procedures not enacted by the legislatures made it an unconstitutionally conducted election. I would have hoped that all of the strong hearted “rule of law” advocates would have seen that from the very beginnings and been leading the protests regardless of their presidential choices.

    The article is saying that regardless of what is now years of Big Lie nonsense, you are unconvincing to a mass majority of Americans.

    Perhaps a majority of Republicans repeat the Big Lie nonsense, but not a majority of Americans.

    Every election should be able to pass a demanding examination. To expect it is hardly being an “election denier”.

    This last election has been examined and examined, and no election fraud was discovered. Indeed, after the months long hand-recount of Maricopa County, Biden gained a few votes.

    Being examined by lots of people looking the wrong way down the microscope, or whatever simile you prefer, is not convincing.

    • #22
  23. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The Republican Attorney General Mark Brnovich just went on 60 Minutes and said that the Big Lie was just that, that the allegation that Biden stole the election are horse “sh*t.” https://youtu.be/nJem4dFgs6Q

    He is a Republican. He is our outgoing Attorney General. He investigated and ran down all of the allegations where other identified so called “dead people” to find out that they were, um, not dead. And he said that the folks in “The Big Lie” are “clowns” who are peddling “horsesh*t.”

    The Republican Party will not win as along as we embrace Election Deniers, and the Democrat Party will not win as long as they embrace anti-Semites like Ilhan Omar.

    Back to you.

    Objection. Nonresponsive answer. Still just name-calling.

    Does not provide any evidence on which the public can rely to believe that the processes were not manipulated, nor that the processes weren’t designed to be manipulated. 

    • #23
  24. GlennAmurgis Coolidge
    GlennAmurgis
    @GlennAmurgis

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Ole Summers (View Comment):

    The point of the American Thinker is that despite the constant drum beat of a media and the passive acceptance of those far too comfortable with the results of 2020, most Americans simply know that is plenty of reason to feel an election conducted like that one is unacceptable. If you decided not to find fraud and didnt, it certainly wasnt because there was not plenty of chance for it. Most people know when such obvious malpractice is staring them in the face. And the issue STILL remains that any changes in law election procedures not enacted by the legislatures made it an unconstitutionally conducted election. I would have hoped that all of the strong hearted “rule of law” advocates would have seen that from the very beginnings and been leading the protests regardless of their presidential choices.

    The article is saying that regardless of what is now years of Big Lie nonsense, you are unconvincing to a mass majority of Americans.

    Perhaps a majority of Republicans repeat the Big Lie nonsense, but not a majority of Americans.

    Every election should be able to pass a demanding examination. To expect it is hardly being an “election denier”.

    This last election has been examined and examined, and no election fraud was discovered. Indeed, after the months long hand-recount of Maricopa County, Biden gained a few votes.

    and corporate media ignore the big lie of 2016 – of Russian Collusion

    or the big lie of 2020 – Hunter Biden laptop was a russian disinformation campaign 

     

    • #24
  25. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Ole Summers (View Comment):

    The point of the American Thinker is that despite the constant drum beat of a media and the passive acceptance of those far too comfortable with the results of 2020, most Americans simply know that is plenty of reason to feel an election conducted like that one is unacceptable. If you decided not to find fraud and didnt, it certainly wasnt because there was not plenty of chance for it. Most people know when such obvious malpractice is staring them in the face. And the issue STILL remains that any changes in law election procedures not enacted by the legislatures made it an unconstitutionally conducted election. I would have hoped that all of the strong hearted “rule of law” advocates would have seen that from the very beginnings and been leading the protests regardless of their presidential choices.

    The article is saying that regardless of what is now years of Big Lie nonsense, you are unconvincing to a mass majority of Americans.

    Perhaps a majority of Republicans repeat the Big Lie nonsense, but not a majority of Americans.

    Every election should be able to pass a demanding examination. To expect it is hardly being an “election denier”.

    This last election has been examined and examined, and no election fraud was discovered. Indeed, after the months long hand-recount of Maricopa County, Biden gained a few votes.

    Being examined by lots of people looking the wrong way down the microscope, or whatever simile you prefer, is not convincing.

    If you look for the trees of a very narrow category of acts that constitute legal “fraud” you run the risk of missing the forest of systems and processes that are inherently unfair, or are designed to be easy to manipulate.

    • #25
  26. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    The Republican Attorney General Mark Brnovich just went on 60 Minutes and said that the Big Lie was just that, that the allegation that Biden stole the election are horse “sh*t.” https://youtu.be/nJem4dFgs6Q

    He is a Republican. He is our outgoing Attorney General. He investigated and ran down all of the allegations where other identified so called “dead people” to find out that they were, um, not dead. And he said that the folks in “The Big Lie” are “clowns” who are peddling “horsesh*t.”

    The Republican Party will not win as along as we embrace Election Deniers, and the Democrat Party will not win as long as they embrace anti-Semites like Ilhan Omar.

    Back to you.

    Objection. Nonresponsive answer. Still just name-calling.

    Does not provide any evidence on which the public can rely to believe that the processes were not manipulated, nor that the processes weren’t designed to be manipulated.

    Well, what else is new?

    • #26
  27. Chris O Coolidge
    Chris O
    @ChrisO

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    I have an odd view of elections. Back in high school we played euchre like it was a religion. All games were 100% legit. We were all cheating. Later in life I worked elections at the county level. Same rule applies. It was like high school euchre games. Everybody cheating, everybody childish, everybody petty.

    Hmm. If you got caught cheating when we played, you spent the next game without some significant pieces of clothing. Also childish and not sure it speaks well to ethics except for the stringent enforcement methods. No one cheated.

    • #27
  28. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    No, I heard it from the Arizona Republican Attorney General who investigated all referred allegations of dead voters, etc., and found them to be, um “horse pucky” cleaning up his language.

    I know you are proud to support the Arizona Republican AG.

    When was he elected to that office and what office is he on the Republican ballot this election?

    • #28
  29. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    No, I heard it from the Arizona Republican Attorney General who investigated all referred allegations of dead voters, etc., and found them to be, um “horse pucky” cleaning up his language.

    I know you are proud to support the Arizona Republican AG.

    When was he elected to that office and what office is he on the Republican ballot this election?

    The Arizona Republican AG was elected in 2014, and re-elected in 2018.  He was term limited in 2022.  He ran for the Senate, but Trump endorsed Blake Masters beat him in the primary.

    • #29
  30. Metalheaddoc Member
    Metalheaddoc
    @Metalheaddoc

    I am not neither impressed nor satisfied when a government official investigates other government officials and doesn’t find any wrongdoing. I remain skeptical. “Internal investigations” are not to be trusted. It is a group of thieves all vouching for each other’s honesty. 

    It only takes a few dishonest poll workers to ruin the trustworthiness of an election. And the notion that the Democrats don’t install sympathetic apparatchiks in those positions flies in the face of the fact that Dems infiltrate all institutions in society. 

    They say that democracy is two wolves and one sheep voting on what’s for dinner. It’s no better if it’s two sheep and one wolf if the wolf is doing the counting. 

    • #30
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