Quote of the Day: Muggeridge on the Progressive Mind

 

“One of the great weaknesses of the progressive, as distinct from the religious, mind, is that it has no awareness of truth as such; only of truth in terms of enlightened expediency. The contrast is well exemplified in two exact contemporaries — Simone Weil and Simone de Beauvoir; both highly intelligent and earnestly disposed. In all the fearful moral dilemmas of our time, Simone Weil never once went astray, whereas Simone de Beauvoir, with I am sure the best of intentions, has found herself aligned with apologists for some of the most monstrous barbarities and falsehoods of history.”
— Thomas Malcolm Muggeridge in “A Knight of the Woeful Countenance” in The World of George Orwell (1972) edited by Miriam Gross, p. 167

And here one finds it exactly. For Progressives, means to an end don’t matter. Thus, anything is possible and excusable. For the religious, the means should accord with the goal. The goal gained through ill means is not gained at all, but merely is a step in the wrong direction. For Progressives, elections are far too important to be left in the hands of the unwashed voters. They will achieve their Great Democracy without the common people. You know, the Demos.

Many pundits on Ricochet and other places are talking about the coming red wave. Will the Progressives of both parties allow that? If it is allowed, will it be subverted (again)? What do you think, Ricochet? Will there be odd dumps of votes this election? And will the Republican Party care?

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  1. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    Arahant: Will there be odd dumps of vote this election? And will the Republican Party care?

    I hope the Republican Party cares.  If they don’t then we will have crossed a Rubicon.   I fear what could happen to the country if that comes to pass.

    • #1
  2. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Arahant: Will there be odd dumps of vote this election? And will the Republican Party care?

    I hope the Republican Party cares. If they don’t then we will have crossed a Rubicon. I fear what could happen to the country if that comes to pass.

    I thought it already did several elections ago.

    • #2
  3. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Arahant: Will there be odd dumps of vote this election? And will the Republican Party care?

    There are people who care and it appears there are people who don’t care. I think those who care have seen about enough of what they have been getting. We’ll see if there is enough of them.

    • #3
  4. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):
    We’ll see if there is enough of them.

    Indeed.

    • #4
  5. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Arahant: Will there be odd dumps of vote this election? And will the Republican Party care?

    I hope the Republican Party cares. If they don’t then we will have crossed a Rubicon. I fear what could happen to the country if that comes to pass.

    I thought it already did several elections ago.

     

    Can’t like that one but I had forgotten about it.

    • #5
  6. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    This quote might mean something to me, if I knew anything of significance about the two Simones referenced therein.  I had vaguely heard of de Beauvoir, and had the impression that she was some feminist.  I don’t think that I’ve ever heard of Weil, and have no idea why she would be considered significant.

    • #6
  7. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Raxxalan (View Comment):
    Can’t like that one but I had forgotten about it.

    Oh, hey, cheating in Philadelphia (or Chicago or Detroit or. . .any big city), another election day that ends in a “Y.”

    • #7
  8. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    This quote might mean something to me, if I knew anything of significance about the two Simones referenced therein. I had vaguely heard of de Beauvoir, and had the impression that she was some feminist. I don’t think that I’ve ever heard of Weil, and have no idea why she would be considered significant.

    Dear Jerry,

    There is this thing called the Internet, in which you can find more information about almost any topic or famous person. Perhaps when coming across a quotation from an intelligent and literate person in regard to two significant figures of his day, one might delve deeper, rather than dismissing it because one does not know the personalities involved. Or, one could deduce much from the context. Still, two women born in Paris about a year apart:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_Weil

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_de_Beauvoir

    • #8
  9. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    This quote might mean something to me, if I knew anything of significance about the two Simones referenced therein.  I had vaguely heard of de Beauvoir, and had the impression that she was some feminist.  I don’t think that I’ve ever heard of Weil, and have no idea why she would be considered significant.

    I always think of Simone de Beauvoir in relation to Jean-Paul Sartre. And of course, Jean-Paul Sartre always reminds me of Monty Python’s Flying Circus.

    I’ve read some Sartre. I don’t recommend it. Monty Python is far more substantive.

    • #9
  10. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Hang On (View Comment):
    I’ve read some Sartre. I don’t recommend it. Monty Python is far more substantive.

    C’est vrai.

    • #10
  11. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):
    I’ve read some Sartre. I don’t recommend it. Monty Python is far more substantive.

    C’est vrai.

    I didn’t read Sartre in French though. It was for a freshman philosophy class and I didn’t know any French then. We did among those I remember Plato’s The Prince and Sartre’s Being and Nothingness. I swore off reading philosophy and have never recovered. 

    • #11
  12. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Hang On (View Comment):
    I swore off reading philosophy and have never recovered. 

    At least it didn’t totally addle your mind as it did to @saintaugustine. 😜

    • #12
  13. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Also, Sartre makes much more sense in the original French while sipping wine and puffing on a Gauloises.

    • #13
  14. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Hang On (View Comment):
    I’ve read some Sartre. I don’t recommend it. Monty Python is far more substantive.

    “Existentialism Is a Humanism” is readable. And an essay, not a book. And at least has the Golden Rule, or a version of it. I like Sartre.

    Also, apparently he became a theist right before he died, to the annoyance of Simone.

    • #14
  15. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Hang On (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):
    I’ve read some Sartre. I don’t recommend it. Monty Python is far more substantive.

    C’est vrai.

    I didn’t read Sartre in French though. It was for a freshman philosophy class and I didn’t know any French then. We did among those I remember Plato’s The Prince and Sartre’s Being and Nothingness. I swore off reading philosophy and have never recovered.

    Machiavelli wrote The Prince. Perhaps you mean Plato’s Republic? Did they tell you it was a manual for communism or something?

    Why oh why would they have you read THAT one by Sartre??????

    • #15
  16. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Hang On (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):
    I’ve read some Sartre. I don’t recommend it. Monty Python is far more substantive.

    C’est vrai.

    I didn’t read Sartre in French though. It was for a freshman philosophy class and I didn’t know any French then. We did among those I remember Plato’s The Prince and Sartre’s Being and Nothingness. I swore off reading philosophy and have never recovered.

    My advice: Just read C. S. Lewis. He has all the best ideas from many great philosophers. If you like it enough and feel like it you can find a few short and clearer books he read and read them later. If you don’t feel like it you’ll be fine.

    • #16
  17. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Also, Sartre makes much more sense in the original French while sipping wine and puffing on a Gauloises.

    Nonsense. Drink tea, fidget with a pencil or something, and read the English translation.

    • #17
  18. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Why wouldn’t they cheat? They got away with it and convinced weak Republicans to condemn those who do care about honest elections

    • #18
  19. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Why wouldn’t they cheat? They got away with it and convinced weak Republicans to condemn those who do care about honest elections

    Yep.

    • #19
  20. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Also, Sartre makes much more sense in the original French while sipping wine and puffing on a Gauloises.

    Nonsense. Drink tea, fidget with a pencil or something, and read the English translation.

    I have released the Kraken!

    • #20
  21. AMD Texas Coolidge
    AMD Texas
    @DarinJohnson

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Also, Sartre makes much more sense in the original French while sipping wine and puffing on a Gauloises.

    I loved puffing on Gauloises at one time but I draw the line at wine

    • #21
  22. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):
    I’ve read some Sartre. I don’t recommend it. Monty Python is far more substantive.

    C’est vrai.

    I didn’t read Sartre in French though. It was for a freshman philosophy class and I didn’t know any French then. We did among those I remember Plato’s The Prince and Sartre’s Being and Nothingness. I swore off reading philosophy and have never recovered.

    Machiavelli wrote The Prince. Perhaps you mean Plato’s Republic? Did they tell you it was a manual for communism or something?

    Why oh why would they have you read THAT one by Sartre??????

    Ah, you’re right it was Plato’s Republic that I read. I have also read the Prince (several times). I first read that for a political science class. I have a much higher opinion of Machiavelli than I do of Sartre. Machiavelli really wanted to unify Italy the same way that France was being unified. So in many ways, he was an unsuccessful philosopher. But he illuminates the dark thoughts of power. And that is well worth understanding. 

    • #22
  23. TempTime Member
    TempTime
    @TempTime

    I think there will be a Red Wave, cheating involved on either side or not.   

    That said, I don’t think the Progressives care at all about what happens to the non-elite,  lower ranking Democrats in the Elections, and don’t care if there is a Red Wave (except possibly  the gubernatorial races).   They are probably quite comfortable as they expect they can  continue to rely on the McConnell Uniparty Rinos to do nothing to stop the Executive branch from doing whatever it wants.   Which I suspect will be to cast wrath upon the Country for voting ‘New Republican’ Red.  This, of course, is what the Progressives want the Executive administration to do — induce pain.  They  think it will ensure a Progressive will be elected President in 2024.  Just as they planned.  What?

    Elect a Progressive?  Sound crazy?  Not really.  By 2024, unless Joey is reined in, he could have the entire country  overwhelmed with fear and begging for relief from the pain they are experiencing.   But I don’t think they will blame Joey, I think they will blame the Republican Congress ‘Who did nothing! Again!’ to relieve their pain and that is why in retaliation they will vote for a Progressive aka Democrat for President.   We should remember, our opponent always play the long game.

    I think the only situations that can somewhat improve the above forecast is:

    1.  a whole lot of Governors with the fortitude, strength of character and love of country that is DeSantis get elected.  (Nothing makes me feel safer in Florida then knowing he has stood up our own State Guard, his people are pushing back on the evil of CRT, surgical mutilation of children, and strangling of Constitutional rights at all levels.   Also, he supports ‘stand your ground’. )

    and,  2.  don’t let K.McCarthy, M.McConnell (or their clones)  be leader/chairperson/in charge of anything.

    I think it is going to be wild next two years.  This election will open an opportunity for the New Republican party, but no guarantees will be given.

     

    • #23
  24. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    There’s a scene in Sartre’s The Stranger in which he describes a hot day on the beach, and there’s a knife. Not a hot July goes by that I don’t think of that passage. I was in high school when I read it, and it was so vivid to me who has always hated hot days. This is the beginning of it:

    The sun was shining almost directly overhead onto the sand, and the glare on the water was unbearable.
    There was no one left on the beach. From inside the bungalows bordering the plateau and jutting out over the water, we could hear the rattling of plates and silverware. It was hard to breathe in the rocky heat rising from the ground. At first Raymond and Masson discussed people and things I didn’t know about. I gathered they’d known each other for a long time and had even lived together at one point. We headed down to the sea and walked along the water’s edge. Now and
    then a little wave would come up higher than the others and wet our canvas shoes. I wasn’t thinking about anything, because I was half asleep from the sun beating down on my bare head.

    At that point Raymond said something to Masson which I didn’t quite catch. But at the same time I noticed, at the far end of the beach and a long way from us, two Arabs in blue overalls coming in our direction. I looked at Raymond and he said, “It’s him.” We kept walking. Masson asked how they’d managed to follow us all this way. I thought they must have seen us get on the bus with a beach bag, but I didn’t say anything.

    [quote continues in comment 25]

    • #24
  25. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    [continued from comment 24]

    The Arabs were walking slowly, but they were already much closer. We didn’t change our pace, but Raymond said, “If there’s any trouble, Masson, you take the other one. I’ll take care of my man. Meursault, if another one shows up, he’s yours.” I said, “Yes,” and Masson put his hands in his pockets. The blazing sand looked red to me now. We moved steadily toward the Arabs. The distance between us was getting shorter and shorter. When we were just a few steps away from each other, the Arabs stopped. Masson and I slowed down. Raymond went right up to his man. I couldn’t hear what he said to him, but the other guy made a move as though he were going to butt him. Then Raymond struck the first blow and called Masson right away. Masson went for the one that had been pointed out as his and hit him twice, as hard as he could. The Arab fell Aat in the water, facedown, and lay there for several seconds with bubbles bursting on the surface around his head. Meanwhile Raymond had landed one too, and the other Arab’s face was bleeding. Raymond turned to me and said, “Watch this. I’m gonna let him have it now.” I shouted, “Look out, he’s got a knife!” But Raymond’s arm had already been cut open and his mouth slashed. Masson lunged forward. But the other Arab had gotten back up and gone around behind the one with the knife. We didn’t dare move. They started backing off slowly, without taking their eyes off us, keeping us at bay with the knife. When they thought they were far enough away, they took off running as fast as they could while we stood there motionless in the sun and Raymond clutched at his arm dripping with blood.

    • #25
  26. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    This quote might mean something to me, if I knew anything of significance about the two Simones referenced therein. I had vaguely heard of de Beauvoir, and had the impression that she was some feminist. I don’t think that I’ve ever heard of Weil, and have no idea why she would be considered significant.

    Dear Jerry,

    There is this thing called the Internet, in which you can find more information about almost any topic or famous person. Perhaps when coming across a quotation from an intelligent and literate person in regard to two significant figures of his day, one might delve deeper, rather than dismissing it because one does not know the personalities involved. Or, one could deduce much from the context. Still, two women born in Paris about a year apart:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_Weil

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_de_Beauvoir

    I did look them up, and read the Wikipedia entries, before commenting.  Even the Wikipedia entries seemed quite shallow.

    I originally drafted a critical comment, then decided to point out the obscurity of the two people referenced.

    I had heard of Muggeridge.  Frankly, after reading about Weil, my modestly favorable opinion of Muggeridge declined a bit.  So she was a Jewish woman from France, who started as a Bolshevik, and appears to have become a Marxist, pacifist, trade unionist, and anarchist.  Despite her pacifism, she fought on the Communist side of the Spanish Civil War.  Later, she became some sort of mystic.

    She died in 1943 at the age of 34.  It appears that she had little influence during life, but became influential after her death.

    Of all bizarre things, the Wikipedia entry reports that Pope Paul VI said that she was one of his three greatest influences (with Pascal and Georges Bernanos).  One might hope that a Pope would identify, say, Jesus as his greatest influence, along with some of the Apostles, perhaps, or noted theologians.  But no, the Vatican II pope apparently was heavily influenced by a Jewish/Marxist/anarchist/mystic.

    Don’t even get me started on the feminists like de Beauvoir.  I would not grant them the best of intentions.  I think that they are generally motivated by the worst of intentions — a deep hatred of motherhood and marriage.

    • #26
  27. Lilly B Coolidge
    Lilly B
    @LillyB

    And beyond election concerns, I think this quote is relevant to @she’s post about “Covid Amnesty.”  Progressives can go so wrong when they don’t understand that the means to the end matter a lot. I always wondered how so many governors and public health officials couldn’t understand that the costs of lockdowns were more harmful than the benefits they were supposedly intended to produce.

    *******

    This is the first Quote of the Day post for the month of November. Sign up to contribute a quote this month here!

    • #27
  28. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Lilly B (View Comment):

    And beyond election concerns, I think this quote is relevant to @ she’s post about “Covid Amnesty.” Progressives can go so wrong when they don’t understand that the means to the end matter a lot. I always wondered how so many governors and public health officials couldn’t understand that the costs of lockdowns were more harmful than the benefits they were supposedly intended to produce.

     

    The benefit was getting rid of Trump.  How can any cost be too great for a benefit like that? 

    • #28
  29. Lilly B Coolidge
    Lilly B
    @LillyB

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Lilly B (View Comment):

    And beyond election concerns, I think this quote is relevant to @ she’s post about “Covid Amnesty.” Progressives can go so wrong when they don’t understand that the means to the end matter a lot. I always wondered how so many governors and public health officials couldn’t understand that the costs of lockdowns were more harmful than the benefits they were supposedly intended to produce.

     

    The benefit was getting rid of Trump. How can any cost be too great for a benefit like that?

    Yeah, it’s the Sam Harris way of thinking.

    • #29
  30. TempTime Member
    TempTime
    @TempTime

    TempTime (View Comment):

    … I don’t think the Progressives care at all about what happens … in the Elections, and don’t care if there is a Red Wave

    Ooops!   After hearing, uh, ‘Joey’ speak last evening, allow me to admit ‘I may be wrong’ :

     — election potentially illegitimate ?

    —  will take a long time to count the votes ?

    BOHICA!

    • #30
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