We Want Accountability, Not Amnesty

 

This started as a comment, but then I thought, “Nah, buddy, make it a thread.” So, here’s taking apart the “Let’s Forget That Democrats Were Horrible Authoritarians and Wrong About Everything During the Covid Pandemic and Just Let It Go, Okay?” article from The Atlantic.

Emily Oster writes: “Our cloth masks made out of old bandanas wouldn’t have done anything, anyway. But the thing is: We didn’t know.”

Us: “Honey, all of us ‘stupid anti-vax granny killers’ (SAVGK) knew cloth masks were useless from the get-go.”

Emily Oster says: “There is an emerging (if not universal) consensus that schools in the U.S. were closed for too long: But in spring and summer 2020, we had only glimmers of information.”

Us: “You shut down schools and everything else based on ‘glimmers of information,’ when all of us SAVGK’s were telling you kids were at minimal risk, and the damage to learning and public health would be huge.”

Emily Oster says: “Remember when the public-health community had to spend a lot of time and resources urging Americans not to inject themselves with bleach?”

Us: “We remember your side lying that President Trump said to do that because you wanted to score political points.”

Emily says: “The people who got it right, for whatever reason, may want to gloat.”

Us: “No, we want you to acknowledge that we were right and apologize; that your leaders abused power and we want them punished; we want laws in place to prevent power from being abused again.”

Emily asks: “Why have some states recovered faster than others?”

Us: “The states that recovered faster didn’t listen to people like you.”

Emily says: “Pediatricians and public-health officials will need to work together on community outreach, and politicians will need to consider school mandates.”

Us: “You mean the exact same people who squandered all credibility and public trust by playing politics and being consistently wrong should be the ones telling us what to do next.”

Emily concludes: “Let’s acknowledge that we made complicated choices in the face of deep uncertainty, and then try to work together to build back and move forward.”

Us: “Horse manure. You didn’t make complicated choices, you invariably chose the path that increased the political power of Democrats. You ridiculed, belittled, harassed, and openly threatened people who questioned your ‘complicated choices.’ And you propose to ‘build back (presumably better?’ with the exact same set of people in charge.

Emily Oster, go amnesty yourself.

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  1. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Don’t know that we needed a third thread on this, but what the heck.

    Enjoy this Tweet and all the replies, most of which involve telling David French where he can shove his “amnesty.”

    • #1
  2. No Caesar Thatcher
    No Caesar
    @NoCaesar

    I suggest we forgive those who publicly admit they were wrong, repent of their mistakes, and  seek to do better the next time.  The rest can go F*** themselves.  I don’t have a burning animous toward them, but I will rejoice when they receive their comeuppance.  

    Given Pastor French’s tweet, it’s worth remembering forgiving our enemies is predicated upon the enemy requesting forgiveness or seeking to atone in some way.  It’s also about not letting the wrongs done against you destroy you.  I.e. don’t bear a grudge or perpetuate a feud.

    • #2
  3. Victor Tango Kilo Member
    Victor Tango Kilo
    @VtheK

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):
    Don’t know that we needed a third thread on this, but what the heck.

    It started out as a response to a “Did you even read the article”comment and became it’s own thing. Maybe I shoulda left it as a comment.  Can I has amnesty?

    • #3
  4. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    No Caesar (View Comment):
    Given Pastor French’s tweet, it’s worth remembering forgiving our enemies is predicated upon the enemy requesting forgiveness or seeking to atone in some way.

    I think it’s good to forgive people who haven’t asked for it or even recognize their need for it. However, that doesn’t mean you ever trust them with power again. Forgive them and then throw them in prison.

    • #4
  5. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    From the early days of the blogosphere, this format got the name Fisking. What a fine job you did.

    I think it’s in the thread Drew shared, but someone shared the clip from the Holy Grail where the father says, after Sir Lancelot killed a bunch of wedding guests, “Please! This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let’s not bicker and argue about who killed who.” The side pushing all of the authoritarianism wants to sweep it under the rug before the check comes due.

    • #5
  6. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Victor Tango Kilo (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):
    Don’t know that we needed a third thread on this, but what the heck.

    It started out as a response to a “Did you even read the article”comment and became it’s own thing. Maybe I shoulda left it as a comment. Can I has amnesty?

    Hey, I used it to draw attention to a lovely Tweet-storm, so what the heck, indeed.

    • #6
  7. No Caesar Thatcher
    No Caesar
    @NoCaesar

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    No Caesar (View Comment):
    Given Pastor French’s tweet, it’s worth remembering forgiving our enemies is predicated upon the enemy requesting forgiveness or seeking to atone in some way.

    I think it’s good to forgive people who haven’t asked for it or even recognize their need for it. However, that doesn’t mean you ever trust them with power again. Forgive them and then throw them in prison.

    Hence the second part of my comment “It’s also about not letting the wrongs done against you destroy you.  I.e. don’t bear a grudge or perpetuate a feud.”

    • #7
  8. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    And given the responses I’ve seen on Twatter to this call for Amnesty, the majority of Americans are not the slightest bit interested in letting these authoritarian asshats off the hook.

    • #8
  9. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    No Caesar (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    No Caesar (View Comment):
    Given Pastor French’s tweet, it’s worth remembering forgiving our enemies is predicated upon the enemy requesting forgiveness or seeking to atone in some way.

    I think it’s good to forgive people who haven’t asked for it or even recognize their need for it. However, that doesn’t mean you ever trust them with power again. Forgive them and then throw them in prison.

    Hence the second part of my comment “It’s also about not letting the wrongs done against you destroy you. I.e. don’t bear a grudge or perpetuate a feud.”

    I love grudges. I keep several around as pets and I feed and exercise them regularly.

    • #9
  10. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    No Caesar (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    No Caesar (View Comment):
    Given Pastor French’s tweet, it’s worth remembering forgiving our enemies is predicated upon the enemy requesting forgiveness or seeking to atone in some way.

    I think it’s good to forgive people who haven’t asked for it or even recognize their need for it. However, that doesn’t mean you ever trust them with power again. Forgive them and then throw them in prison.

    Hence the second part of my comment “It’s also about not letting the wrongs done against you destroy you. I.e. don’t bear a grudge or perpetuate a feud.”

    I love grudges. I keep several around as pets and I feed and exercise them regularly.

    How is that working for you?

    • #10
  11. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    No Caesar (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    No Caesar (View Comment):
    Given Pastor French’s tweet, it’s worth remembering forgiving our enemies is predicated upon the enemy requesting forgiveness or seeking to atone in some way.

    I think it’s good to forgive people who haven’t asked for it or even recognize their need for it. However, that doesn’t mean you ever trust them with power again. Forgive them and then throw them in prison.

    Hence the second part of my comment “It’s also about not letting the wrongs done against you destroy you. I.e. don’t bear a grudge or perpetuate a feud.”

    I love grudges. I keep several around as pets and I feed and exercise them regularly.

    How is that working for you?

    I am quite happy and enjoy life!

    • #11
  12. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    No Caesar (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    No Caesar (View Comment):
    Given Pastor French’s tweet, it’s worth remembering forgiving our enemies is predicated upon the enemy requesting forgiveness or seeking to atone in some way.

    I think it’s good to forgive people who haven’t asked for it or even recognize their need for it. However, that doesn’t mean you ever trust them with power again. Forgive them and then throw them in prison.

    Hence the second part of my comment “It’s also about not letting the wrongs done against you destroy you. I.e. don’t bear a grudge or perpetuate a feud.”

    I love grudges. I keep several around as pets and I feed and exercise them regularly.

    How is that working for you?

    You advocated turning in people for not wearing masks, Gary. You are one of the people needing amnesty that does not deserve it. You deserve nothing but condemnation for your insistence that others mask up to make your anxiety better, like some East German reporting to the STASI.

     Some Reaganite. 

    • #12
  13. OmegaPaladin Moderator
    OmegaPaladin
    @OmegaPaladin

    Okay, I posted more on the thread by Old Bathos, but here goes:

    A response to pandemic should be driven by science.  That means reassessing your findings on collecting new data.   People fixated on a standard approach of sanitize, distance, and mask, then clung to that bitterly despite new evidence showing it did not work.   There was a massive social media clampdown and attempt to force compliance with the party line on the response, and outright trashing any non-vaccine therapies or even encouraging measures like taking vitamins and regularly exercising.   There was no room for experimentation and innovation, only compliance.

    This has had a staggering cost on our society, in money and lives, and it was deliberate.

    The only way to prevent this type of response from occurring again is punishment.

    • #13
  14. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    Okay, I posted more on the thread by Old Bathos, but here goes:

    A response to pandemic should be driven by science. That means reassessing your findings on collecting new data. People fixated on a standard approach of sanitize, distance, and mask, then clung to that bitterly despite new evidence showing it did not work. There was a massive social media clampdown and attempt to force compliance with the party line on the response, and outright trashing any non-vaccine therapies or even encouraging measures like taking vitamins and regularly exercising. There was no room for experimentation and innovation, only compliance.

    This has had a staggering cost on our society, in money and lives, and it was deliberate.

    The only way to prevent this type of response from occurring again is punishment.

    Punishment is one way, but it is not the only way.  I would suggest accountability, not amnesty, not punishment.

    I would also suggest that we extol those who turned out to be right, like Jim Geraghty who exposed the Wuhan Lab, and Ron DeSantis who opened up Florida.  Can you agree with me about that?  What other heroes need to be honored?

    • #14
  15. Joe Boyle Member
    Joe Boyle
    @JoeBoyle

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    Okay, I posted more on the thread by Old Bathos, but here goes:

    A response to pandemic should be driven by science. That means reassessing your findings on collecting new data. People fixated on a standard approach of sanitize, distance, and mask, then clung to that bitterly despite new evidence showing it did not work. There was a massive social media clampdown and attempt to force compliance with the party line on the response, and outright trashing any non-vaccine therapies or even encouraging measures like taking vitamins and regularly exercising. There was no room for experimentation and innovation, only compliance.

    This has had a staggering cost on our society, in money and lives, and it was deliberate.

    The only way to prevent this type of response from occurring again is punishment.

    Punishment is one way, but it is not the only way. I would suggest accountability, not amnesty, not punishment.

    I would also suggest that we extol those who turned out to be right, like Jim Geraghty who exposed the Wuhan Lab, and Ron DeSantis who opened up Florida.

    I would suggest that you go home and be quiet. 

    • #15
  16. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    Okay, I posted more on the thread by Old Bathos, but here goes:

    A response to pandemic should be driven by science. That means reassessing your findings on collecting new data. People fixated on a standard approach of sanitize, distance, and mask, then clung to that bitterly despite new evidence showing it did not work. There was a massive social media clampdown and attempt to force compliance with the party line on the response, and outright trashing any non-vaccine therapies or even encouraging measures like taking vitamins and regularly exercising. There was no room for experimentation and innovation, only compliance.

    This has had a staggering cost on our society, in money and lives, and it was deliberate.

    The only way to prevent this type of response from occurring again is punishment.

    I think that your diagnosis of the problem is incorrect.  I think that your suggestion was part of the problem.

    The problem is in your first sentence, I think — “A response to the pandemic should be driven by science.”  I disagree with this, quite strongly.  I would agree that it should be guided by science.

    Science is incapable of answering the public policy questions presented by the pandemic.  Should you close schools or not?  At best, “science” might be able to predict the outcomes of various alternatives, but it cannot possibly tell you which to pick.  (In the event, “science” wasn’t very good at predicting things, either.)  Should you mandate masks?  “Science” might tell you the effectiveness of such a policy, but it cannot determine the outcome.  Ditto for vaccines, and vaccine mandates.

    Policy should be driven by a balancing of a wide variety of values, in my view.

    While I think that some scientists gave us very bad information, I think that the fundamental problem was a panicked population.  People seem to get hysterical quite easily, about many things.

    • #16
  17. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Joe Boyle (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    Okay, I posted more on the thread by Old Bathos, but here goes:

    A response to pandemic should be driven by science. That means reassessing your findings on collecting new data. People fixated on a standard approach of sanitize, distance, and mask, then clung to that bitterly despite new evidence showing it did not work. There was a massive social media clampdown and attempt to force compliance with the party line on the response, and outright trashing any non-vaccine therapies or even encouraging measures like taking vitamins and regularly exercising. There was no room for experimentation and innovation, only compliance.

    This has had a staggering cost on our society, in money and lives, and it was deliberate.

    The only way to prevent this type of response from occurring again is punishment.

    Punishment is one way, but it is not the only way. I would suggest accountability, not amnesty, not punishment.

    I would also suggest that we extol those who turned out to be right, like Jim Geraghty who exposed the Wuhan Lab, and Ron DeSantis who opened up Florida.

    I would suggest that you go home and be quiet.

    Not going to happen.  Who do you feel should be extolled for getting it right?  I created a post on that issue, https://ricochet.com/1331941/who-are-the-covid-19-heroes/.

    • #17
  18. GPentelie Coolidge
    GPentelie
    @GPentelie

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    I would suggest accountability, not amnesty, not punishment.

    Example(s) of accountability in the absence of punishment, please.

    • #18
  19. Doctor Robert Member
    Doctor Robert
    @DoctorRobert

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    While I think that some scientists gave us very bad information, I think that the fundamental problem was a panicked population.  People seem to get hysterical quite easily, about many things.

    Pandemic = “Pan-ic” plus “Dem”.  This was noted as early as April, 2020. https://ricochet.com/752742/an-observation/

    People got panicked because it was to the interests of one political party to panic them.  That party marshalled all of the resources of modern communication to panic people, thus allowing increased authoritarianism, election law re-writes and the loss of Mr Trump’s otherwise certain second term.  Were we a sober, freedom-loving country, we would have isolated those at risk and kept life moving along normally.  See the Great Barrington Declaration for one way to do that.

    • #19
  20. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    Okay, I posted more on the thread by Old Bathos, but here goes:

    A response to pandemic should be driven by science. That means reassessing your findings on collecting new data. People fixated on a standard approach of sanitize, distance, and mask, then clung to that bitterly despite new evidence showing it did not work. There was a massive social media clampdown and attempt to force compliance with the party line on the response, and outright trashing any non-vaccine therapies or even encouraging measures like taking vitamins and regularly exercising. There was no room for experimentation and innovation, only compliance.

    This has had a staggering cost on our society, in money and lives, and it was deliberate.

    The only way to prevent this type of response from occurring again is punishment.

    I think that your diagnosis of the problem is incorrect. I think that your suggestion was part of the problem.

    The problem is in your first sentence, I think — “A response to the pandemic should be driven by science.” I disagree with this, quite strongly. I would agree that it should be guided by science.

    Science is incapable of answering the public policy questions presented by the pandemic. Should you close schools or not? At best, “science” might be able to predict the outcomes of various alternatives, but it cannot possibly tell you which to pick. (In the event, “science” wasn’t very good at predicting things, either.) Should you mandate masks? “Science” might tell you the effectiveness of such a policy, but it cannot determine the outcome. Ditto for vaccines, and vaccine mandates.

    Policy should be driven by a balancing of a wide variety of values, in my view.

    While I think that some scientists gave us very bad information, I think that the fundamental problem was a panicked population. People seem to get hysterical quite easily, about many things.

    I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, but why was the population so panicked? Yes. There are some who panic easily. But I know some (previously) rational people who went down the panic hole. The reason they panicked is because they were lied to. Over and over.

    I’ve a few friends who panicked. I also have a few (ex) friends who panicked and became irrational and hateful. 

    All dissenting voices were shut down, and the only voice getting through was telling people to panic and encouraging irrational and hateful behavior. Actually gave that behavior a patina of moral authority. 

    Until I see someone on their knees begging for forgiveness, it’s not even to be considered. And they’re not even close. 

    • #20
  21. Victor Tango Kilo Member
    Victor Tango Kilo
    @VtheK

    How can anyone be so devoid of self-awareness? 

     

    https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1587280507246727168

    • #21
  22. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Victor Tango Kilo (View Comment):

    How can anyone be so devoid of self-awareness?

     

    https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1587280507246727168

    Good first comment.

    • #22
  23. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    No amnesty for any of these pathetic scolds and authoritarians! 

    I couldn’t quite see this day coming but it has finally arrived. Now we are seeing, finally, a complete vindication of what many of us were saying all along, and some vague backtracking that’s transparently self-serving. 

    We knew these things. Masks don’t work.

     Early on we knew vaccines didn’t stop the spread.

     

    Early on, we knew social distancing policies made no sense.

    We strongly suspected, using our common sense, that they were lying and covering up the idea that this was a result of a lab leak, not some errant wet-market bat.

    We knew Fauci was LYING and said so.

    We showed them the pictures of Fauci wearing a mask on the pitchers mound 90 feet away from any human, and moments later,  sitting in the stands between two friends chatting unmasked.

    We played clips of them contradicting themselves. 

    We knew the virus had little or no effect on children early on.

    We told them they were harming children and disrupting their lives needlessly and they wouldn’t listen.

    We told them that Pfizer was one of the largest advertisers the media relied on for income and that maybe, just maybe, the media was not entirely unbiased. 

    We saw the media itself get caught in lie after lie and pointed it out to no avail.

    We reported how the data collected was tainted and had vague definitions.

    It’s not just that these people are stupid lemming and dolts of the lowest order, they wanted to believe in the pandemic as a way to punish their enemies. They enjoyed the power of Karen-hood and moral superiority.

    We will never forget. NEVER AGAIN.

     

     

    • #23
  24. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Punishment is one way, but it is not the only way.  I would suggest accountability, not amnesty, not punishment.

    So what accountability do you think you have coming for you as a maskless reporter, Gary?

    • #24
  25. Tex929rr Coolidge
    Tex929rr
    @Tex929rr

    I can’t think of a more appropriate term for the powers that be (OK, were) than hubris.  It was astonishing to me.  I was getting daily briefings on COVID in our county and saw local political officials making the calls on lockdowns and masking.  They were subject to assurances by public health officials that they knew exactly what was happening and exactly the correct response for every question.  Had (dark) Lord Fauci come out from the beginning and stated that we were in unknown territory and that responses would change, perhaps radically, as we leaned more he would have at least kept the public’s trust.  But instead it was an avalanche of power projection that destroyed the people’s trust in institutions.

    Looking back, it’s like a Tom Clancy thriller plot.  The highest paid employee of the US government was making (literally) millions while farming out illegal (as I understand it) gain of function research to under-equipped Chinese labs.  The deadly virus escaped and he spent months defending and denying what happened.  It’s astonishing that Fauci isn’t in jail.  I don’t think even Clancy could have imagined such a nefarious plot.

    • #25
  26. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Victor Tango Kilo (View Comment):

    How can anyone be so devoid of self-awareness?

    https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1587280507246727168

    Wow. Devoid of self-awareness indeed.

    God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this Trump-voting white evangelical here . . .”

    • #26
  27. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Victor Tango Kilo (View Comment):

    How can anyone be so devoid of self-awareness?

    https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1587280507246727168

    Wow. Devoid of self-awareness indeed.

    “God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this Trump-voting white evangelical here . . .”

    He embodies Luke 18.

    • #27
  28. mildlyo Member
    mildlyo
    @mildlyo

    The truth and reconciliation trials from South Africa are one precedent to consider after rejecting amnesty.

    • #28
  29. Joe Boyle Member
    Joe Boyle
    @JoeBoyle

    On day one I thought the first thing to do was determine who was susceptible, who was resistant and who was immune. Take that and formulate a plan. Is that too much to ask? Is it stupid? I saw Dr Birx, in one of her last appearances, she was asked that question. Her response, we don’t know, we’re working on it.    I think the big brains are corrupt. The corruption is miles wide and several layers deep. I don’t care what AZ lawyers think. The big brains have no credibility with me. The mother of my grandchildren said no access without Mrna vaccine. I don’t blame her. She was scared and duped. Anyway, I was forced to play and pretend I agreed w/her.  Probably happen again.

    • #29
  30. Victor Tango Kilo Member
    Victor Tango Kilo
    @VtheK

    Interesting write up at Ace. 

    Emily Oster isn’t writing for us deplorables. 

    Her ‘amnesty’ message is for her fellow AWFLs. 

    “You need to forgive the Democratics who put us in lockdown and shut down the schools. Let it go and vote blue.”

    • #30
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