This Isn’t a Win

 

We do not need to revert the IRS to its pre-87,000 agents status. We need to destroy the IRS. The IRS has no place in our society. Its methods make a mockery of the concept of innocent until proven guilty. Its body of laws that it enforces is so voluminous and intricate that it can make a case out of virtually any balance sheet in the country if it wanted to.

No one was held accountable for them auditing tea party groups to tip the election in Obama’s favor. It is a corrupt agency like the FBI and the rest of the Washington bureaucratic culture. These agencies will never expose anyone. They will never admit wrongdoing. They will never be contrite. Doing so means foregoing their power and budgets that they have won. They will double and triple down on the abuse because normalizing the abuse means keeping the mask of their credibility and continuing survival.

The GOP for decades has claimed to be against big government, taxes, and abusive practices from the state. Getting rid of the IRS would be a win-win-win. Why hasn’t one job ever been cut at the IRS? Why hasn’t there even been the pretense to downsize them at all? Americans have had to downsize all the time. Americans have foregone getting their kids braces. Americans have foregone turning down their thermostats. Americans have had to lay off competent and loyal workers. Americans have had to buy fewer groceries. Americans have had to drive less. All for doing the right things and trying to make ends meet. Yet the small government party can’t find the will to make the government smaller? Americans have had to find the will to make all aspects of their lives shrink, including their freedoms.

Currently the GOP is pushing to fund the corrupt, big, bloated, abusive government through December. Why? Why revert the IRS to its levels from last year? Why not cut out the cancer completely? What will likely happen is they’ll cut the 87,000 to 40,000 or some such number and call that a win. Then they’ll try to conserve the 40,000 new hires as being the new normal. These people aren’t leaders. They have no solutions. And they aren’t worth our time. Is this what you’re really fighting for? That the IRS should go back to the Lois Lerner days? What a sham.

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  1. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Someone must explain for me why a House Member would write such a statement forecasting a completely meaningless act that will consume work time that might be usefully employed elsewhere. 

    Point being, how can one speak of repealing legislation if the President would veto that and there is no chance of an veto override vote?

    I agree that the 16th Amendment allowing the creation of the IRS is the single worst event to ever happen to the American Republic.

    • #1
  2. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    GlenEisenhardt: We do not need to revert the IRS to its pre-87,000 agents status. We need to destroy the IRS.

    Sounds to me like  a good enough reason to sabotage any attempt to improve the situation or to gather public support for reform.

    • #2
  3. Vince Guerra Inactive
    Vince Guerra
    @VinceGuerra

    The GOP isn’t for downsizing anything, and they never shrink government. Only Trump did that (and only on certain sectors), and the GOP hated him for it. 

    • #3
  4. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Nuke the Treasury! 

    • #4
  5. EDISONPARKS Member
    EDISONPARKS
    @user_54742

    I believe the (D) enhanced IRS monstrosity has to be stopped in it’s tracks.    There is no way the IRS and it’s Leftist inhabitants will not turn an already perceived abusive Federal Agency into an actual enforcer of Leftist political correctness/woke-ism.

    I just pray there is some way the new (R) Congress can defund the IRA legislation which appropriated Billions to hire 87,000 new Stasi IRS agents.

    Stefanik should articulate the (R) Congress plan to never let the (D) IRS agent hiring debacle see the light of day.

    Otherwise, as much as I like Stefanik, she is just blowing smoke up the (R) bases ahrses.

    • #5
  6. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Reducing the new IRS armed staff by half is two steps for the left and one step back again.  This in itself is sabotage.  Taking two steps back is just both sides making a living at creating a problem and undoing it, serving no purpose whatsoever.  Taking four steps back and shrinking government and government power is conservativism and old-style Republicanism and will lead to better lives for the populace.

    • #6
  7. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    TBA (View Comment):

    Nuke the Treasury!

    Goooold–finger.

    • #7
  8. DonG (CAGW is a Scam) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Scam)
    @DonG

    GlenEisenhardt: We do not need to revert the IRS to its pre-87,000 agents status. We need to destroy the IRS.

    This is the difference between playing defense and playing offense.  

    • #8
  9. DonG (CAGW is a Scam) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Scam)
    @DonG

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):
    I agree that the 16th Amendment allowing the creation of the IRS is the single worst event to ever happen to the American Republic.

    Black Americans beg to differ. 

    • #9
  10. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    DonG (CAGW is a Scam) (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):
    I agree that the 16th Amendment allowing the creation of the IRS is the single worst event to ever happen to the American Republic.

    Black Americans beg to differ.

    I take your point, but slavery didn’t happen to the Republic, the Republic happened to slavery. 

    • #10
  11. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    DonG (CAGW is a Scam) (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):
    I agree that the 16th Amendment allowing the creation of the IRS is the single worst event to ever happen to the American Republic.

    Black Americans beg to differ.

    I would not expect unanimity on my point.

    • #11
  12. HeavyWater Reagan
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Is there a way for the government to collect personal income taxes without an Internal Revenue Service of some kind?  

    Is there a way of creating a system of independent judicial review of IRS audits?  

    • #12
  13. Duane Oyen Member
    Duane Oyen
    @DuaneOyen

    Get real, dreamers.  If they can chop the 87,000 added thugs, it is a big win.  The bigger worry is that a certain ex-president keeps blathering nonsense from his 9 year child yap and instead of chopping back the IRS, the new Dem majority resulting from moronic primary results in Arizona, Pennsylvania, Georgia, etc. gives the House and Senate back to the Left with zero restraints.

    And you are not going to, under any circumstances, eliminate the IRS.  Concentrate on eliminating the recent growth and also on firing the top two layers of the FBI and removing all missions except for actual interstate crimes.

    • #13
  14. Vince Guerra Inactive
    Vince Guerra
    @VinceGuerra

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):
    Concentrate on eliminating the recent growth and also on firing the top two layers of the FBI and removing all missions except for actual interstate crimes

    And how do you propose that?

    • #14
  15. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):
    Concentrate on eliminating the recent growth and also on firing the top two layers of the FBI and removing all missions except for actual interstate crimes

    And how do you propose that?

    I was hoping to get the details of the plan for eliminating the IRS.

    • #15
  16. HeavyWater Reagan
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):
    Concentrate on eliminating the recent growth and also on firing the top two layers of the FBI and removing all missions except for actual interstate crimes

    And how do you propose that?

    I was hoping to get the details of the plan for eliminating the IRS.

    Wouldn’t abolishing the IRS require eliminating the personal federal income tax and possibly even all taxes on corporations?  

    Would we just collect federal tax revenue on the honor system?  

    • #16
  17. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    But even getting rid of those agents will never happen.  That’s mostly because they’ll be former antifa agents and they will make sure their existence continues. Their job will be to deepen and expand the swamp, and neither party will have the power to undo them.

    • #17
  18. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):
    Concentrate on eliminating the recent growth and also on firing the top two layers of the FBI and removing all missions except for actual interstate crimes

    And how do you propose that?

    I was hoping to get the details of the plan for eliminating the IRS.

    Wouldn’t abolishing the IRS require eliminating the personal federal income tax and possibly even all taxes on corporations?

    Would we just collect federal tax revenue on the honor system?

    I think some people have made a plausible case that VAT taxes aren’t necessarily so intrusive.   I’m still a bit skeptical, though, and I’m even more skeptical on how a country could move all income tax revenue to a VAT tax.   I’d like to hear the plan. 

    • #18
  19. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):
    Concentrate on eliminating the recent growth and also on firing the top two layers of the FBI and removing all missions except for actual interstate crimes

    And how do you propose that?

    I was hoping to get the details of the plan for eliminating the IRS.

    Wouldn’t abolishing the IRS require eliminating the personal federal income tax and possibly even all taxes on corporations?

    Would we just collect federal tax revenue on the honor system?

    Income should not be the source for taxes.

    • #19
  20. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):
    Concentrate on eliminating the recent growth and also on firing the top two layers of the FBI and removing all missions except for actual interstate crimes

    And how do you propose that?

    I was hoping to get the details of the plan for eliminating the IRS.

    Wouldn’t abolishing the IRS require eliminating the personal federal income tax and possibly even all taxes on corporations?

    Would we just collect federal tax revenue on the honor system?

    Income should not be the source for taxes.

    Nothing should be the source for taxes. Every taxation system is immoral.  But not having taxes in a society like ours is also wrong.

    • #20
  21. Steve Fast Coolidge
    Steve Fast
    @SteveFast

    I agree that the IRS is utterly corrupt and power-hungry. I agree that the 16th amendment is the worst one because it provided unlimited resources for a century of relentless government bloat.

    But abolishing the IRS is not the answer because taxes have to be collected by some agency and tax law has to be enforced. Instead there need to be regulatory and especially legislative reforms (which are harder to undo) to curb the agency’s power. I’m not familiar enough with the IRS to suggest what those things might be, but they would be popular with the American people.

    Cutting the size of government and replacing the 16th amendment with something more limited should be the ultimate goals to defang the IRS, but I don’t see consensus in America for such reforms. A lot of public education is required.

    • #21
  22. Henry Racette Moderator
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    I would like the next Congress to repeal the IRS expansion, and to pass a bunch of other laws as well to reduce the government footprint on our lives — even if the President vetoes them. I want them to tell us what they’ll do, and then do it. I don’t see this as a bad thing.

    • #22
  23. James Lileks Contributor
    James Lileks
    @jameslileks

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I would like the next Congress to repeal the IRS expansion, and to pass a bunch of other laws as well to reduce the government footprint on our lives — even if the President vetoes them. I want them to tell us what they’ll do, and then do it. I don’t see this as a bad thing.

    “Governor DeSantis, Heath Funderbirk, New York Times. Your opponent, Governor  Newsom, has said of your proposal to roll back the IRS hires that quote ‘the GOP has once again shown it doesn’t want billionaires to pay their fair share.’ Do you think billionaires should pay their fair share?”

    DeSantis: (smiles, looks around) “There are 975 billionaires in America. I imagine they already have an IRS agent or two reading their returns. But let’s say we compromise keep 975 new hires to help out the poor overworked guys who have to look at Bill Gates’ returns and figure out whether he should get a deduction for flying to Switzerland to talk about how you eat too much hamburger. Otherwise you have 86,000 guys looking for something to do. Like look at your returns. I’m not saying you made any mistakes, Heath, but maybe you should come in to the office and go over some things so we’re sure you didn’t.”

    • #23
  24. Vince Guerra Inactive
    Vince Guerra
    @VinceGuerra

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    pass a bunch of other laws as well to reduce the government footprint on our lives

    See the contradiction here? 

    • #24
  25. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    The GOP isn’t for downsizing anything, and they never shrink government. Only Trump did that (and only on certain sectors), and the GOP hated him for it.

    Where did Trump shrink the government?

    • #25
  26. EDISONPARKS Member
    EDISONPARKS
    @user_54742

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I would like the next Congress to repeal the IRS expansion, and to pass a bunch of other laws as well to reduce the government footprint on our lives — even if the President vetoes them. I want them to tell us what they’ll do, and then do it. I don’t see this as a bad thing.

    “Governor DeSantis, Heath Funderbirk, New York Times. Your opponent, Governor Newsom, has said of your proposal to roll back the IRS hires that quote ‘the GOP has once again shown it doesn’t want billionaires to pay their fair share.’ Do you think billionaires should pay their fair share?”

    DeSantis: (smiles, looks around) “There are 975 billionaires in America. I imagine they already have an IRS agent or two reading their returns. But let’s say we compromise keep 975 new hires to help out the poor overworked guys who have to look at Bill Gates’ returns and figure out whether he should get a deduction for flying to Switzerland to talk about how you eat too much hamburger. Otherwise you have 86,000 guys looking for something to do. Like look at your returns. I’m not saying you made any mistakes, Heath, but maybe you should come in to the office and go over some things so we’re sure you didn’t.”

    The process is the punishment.

    Just having to go through an audit is time consuming, intimidating, and stressful.

    While I’ve never had an IRS audit I have had other industry level Federal and State audits and it’s apparent from the results that even if you are essentially in full compliance the auditor is under instruction(pressure?) to “find” something in order to pay for the time spent on the audit.

    • #26
  27. davenr321 Coolidge
    davenr321
    @davenr321

    How about the IRS hiring enough staff to process my tax return in a timely manner? If it takes 87,000 to assure proper service, fine with me.

     

    • #27
  28. Gazpacho Grande' Coolidge
    Gazpacho Grande'
    @ChrisCampion

    EDISONPARKS (View Comment):

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I would like the next Congress to repeal the IRS expansion, and to pass a bunch of other laws as well to reduce the government footprint on our lives — even if the President vetoes them. I want them to tell us what they’ll do, and then do it. I don’t see this as a bad thing.

    “Governor DeSantis, Heath Funderbirk, New York Times. Your opponent, Governor Newsom, has said of your proposal to roll back the IRS hires that quote ‘the GOP has once again shown it doesn’t want billionaires to pay their fair share.’ Do you think billionaires should pay their fair share?”

    DeSantis: (smiles, looks around) “There are 975 billionaires in America. I imagine they already have an IRS agent or two reading their returns. But let’s say we compromise keep 975 new hires to help out the poor overworked guys who have to look at Bill Gates’ returns and figure out whether he should get a deduction for flying to Switzerland to talk about how you eat too much hamburger. Otherwise you have 86,000 guys looking for something to do. Like look at your returns. I’m not saying you made any mistakes, Heath, but maybe you should come in to the office and go over some things so we’re sure you didn’t.”

    The process is the punishment.

    Just having to go through an audit is time consuming, intimidating, and stressful.

    While I’ve never had an IRS audit I have had other industry level Federal and State audits and it’s apparent from the results that even if you are essentially in full compliance the auditor is under instruction(pressure?) to “find” something in order to pay for the time spent on the audit.

    Accurate.  They wouldn’t audit if there wasn’t something to find.  Give them thousands of pages of regs to comply with, and you’ll find something.  Every time.

    • #28
  29. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    HeavyWater (View Comment):
    Is there a way for the government to collect personal income taxes without an Internal Revenue Service of some kind?  

    Central bank digital currency. Everybody has to keep their checking account at the Federal Reserve. Biden has literally nominated at least two literal communists for regulator positions and they are for this. The OCC and they tried to get Jamie Raskin’s wife at the Fed. 

    Beyond that, it’s a communist central planning wet dream. 

    I worked at the OCC, and it’s just ridiculous to put such a weirdo at the top. I think they are trying to move the Overton window more than anything else.

    • #29
  30. Gazpacho Grande' Coolidge
    Gazpacho Grande'
    @ChrisCampion

    Not sure if this has been covered here much, but *where* exactly are you going to find 87,000 fully qualified IRS agents?  There aren’t 87,000 unemployed accountants out there looking for a career change.

    Which means if they decide to hire, they’d have to accept less than qualified applicants.  Not sure how that would work in the federal hiring space, since I’m sure the existing agents wouldn’t be very happy if qualifications were tossed out the window for politics.  That would result in additional work on onboard and train unqualified hires, and ongoing oversight, in addition to getting those evil income-earners.

    • #30
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