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The Ricochet Difference
Activity in a thread from a few weeks ago has prompted me to think on a lot of things about Ricochet. It seems to me that Ricochet is something special that I have not encountered anyplace before. It has been building in my mind over the weekend and I thought I would share my thoughts.
Let us get the big two out of the way up front:
Pay to Post
Ricochet is a pay-to-post site. By itself, this creates a better space than places with free posting. You have to have skin in the game to comment. As a therapist, I know that clients who pay money are more likely to be engaged in their own care. Paying changes the equation.
Moderation
Of course, the other big and obvious elephant is the moderation of the Code of Conduct. We all know how vile the internet is. People who can post anonymously will often say things they would never say to someone’s face. It is the mob effect. While Ricochet still allows for anonymous posting, it is not so anonymous that people cannot be banned (thanks to making them pay). While moderation is not perfect, and the Code of Conduct is not always evenly applied, I believe the site does a good job of it, and as a charter member, I can say the moderation has improved and become more evenhanded. I admit, I am human, and part of me would like the Code of Conduct to be used more against others than me, but the more rational part knows that is the way that leads to an echo chamber.
With those mentioned, let’s move on into my deeper thoughts on what I think generates the Ricochet Difference. After all, people pay to comment at National Review, and are moderated, but the comments at National Review are nothing like Ricochet.
Long-Form Posts
The first big thing is the ability for members to make long-form posts. This is huge. Any member who can post has an unlimited word count for their thoughts. These go on to their own page, the Member Page, wherein lies the beating heart of Ricochet. Now, while people can make short posts, the real intellectual energy and investigation is found in longer posts that can dig into an idea like an article in a magazine. I have learned about many things I did not expect to learn about here at Ricochet. And yet, often the real learning comes after the post is made. That is in the comments.
Non-Nested, Long-Form Comments
Ricochet’s use of long-form and non-nested comments allows for a true conversation. With nested comments so commonly used at other sites, you do not get one conversation with everyone participating, you get a break up into several little conversations. Even with a large word count, nested comments lead to short remarks, and frankly, a Twitter feel.
Long comments allow for thoughtful responses. (I’ll admit, I miss having a “Thatcher” level for unlimited word length.) Members at Ricochet are able to respond to any post with a long and thoughtful response, even those with limited word count. Indeed, the back and forth between the writer of the original post and other members is often a great way for an idea to be further explored and understood. Unlike most other sites, these comments can be point-by-point refutations, discussions, and comments. It is a marvelous system. Yes, there can be acrimony. Good. A robust discussion of ideas requires some tough skin, hurt feelings, and robust defenses. That is the stuff of hammering our ideas. And, what is more, the conversation might move away from the starting point as conversations do.
The Spin-Off Post
The last bit that is the “difference” is the spin-off post. This is when a conversation strays too far, or an exciting new point is brought up, someone may decide to create a new original post. The spin-off post often links to the original, and takes the new idea into its own conversation. Some posts have some much energy they spawn more than one spin-off, and sometimes a topic and its variations cover multiple posts for many days. This is outstanding. The site is alive and ideas are bouncing around. All of us who participate are stronger for it. I hope that those who mostly read and not post get something out of it as well.
The Posting Members and Frequent Commenters
I want to also talk about the engine that is Ricochet, the posting members. Posting members are simply the members who often post and comment. Compared to the overall membership, we are a minority, but we make a lot of noise, as it were. We are the members that everybody recognizes. I know I have names I follow, and I am amazed people want to follow me. There are those people who, when they post, I want to read what they have to say.
We also have the frequent commenters. These are often posting members, but also include members who don’t often start the conversation, but sure join into them. It is not that they don’t have anything original to say, it seems they like to use others as a springboard. Often, these are some of the most interesting comments in a conversation.
I would like to take this moment to invite any readers interested in posting to post. You will get a warm reception from most of us, even if we disagree with you. The best way to write better is to write. Come on in, the water is fine. We have cookies.
What It All Means
Ricochet is unique. There is no place like it anywhere else on the web. As a Charter Member, I am proud to say that I have been able to engage with members here consistently for its whole existence. I can have heated (and civil) arguments, heated agreements, revelations, and greater understandings. I hope for many more years of Ricochet and getting to talk to my Ricochet family. As Peter’s tagline says:
Ricochet! Join the Conversation!
Published in General
Sure. Place the member feed posts with their leeds, in the main feed and when a non-member clicks on it, have a dialog box explain to them that they need to subscribe to view the whole article.
If only.
There are a lot of “posts” that are really only worthy of being called comments.
That’s hilarious.
I hope you don’t think I’m saying otherwise since it’s under a quoted passage I wrote. I agree entirely with this -except for “posting more”. I won’t be “posting more” which is my point here. I have PLENTY to say, I just don’t have the time to write for free on a platform whereby my post (or other thoughtful posts) get nudged off the page by drive-by posters (yes, I’ll say it again!) using Ricochet as a vanity platform and not interacting with other posts. It’s one thing to write, another thing to contribute. If I don’t see I’m contributing, then I won’t do it. I might as well write an e-mail to myself and a few friends.
Sometimes I miss things when they’re demoted to the ‘main’ feed too quickly (who has time to wade through all the podcast announcements and other non-interactive stuff?) – it might be nice if such exiles left a trail.
It is a pain to see a post have its comment thread hijacked by some people’s obsession with a particular member. Leave it alone, folks.
Posters that are uninteresting to me – as I’m sure I am to many – are easily avoided.
The worst thing about Ricochet is that it’s so addictive…
I didn’t write this quote that is attributed to me.
I certainly have improved as a writer also. I re-read some of my old posts from time to time and am amazed at my progress and how I would have written the same thing quite differently now. It has also clarified my thoughts immensely, often through disagreement, and of course the exposure to different perspectives and ideas.
That there are more members is great, that some of these members just post on the member feed and never interact, well, I suppose I’m almost alone in my dislike of that style of membership.
OOPs! I was quoting She Sorry I don’t know what happened.
She said:
Do you feel wronged? Sounds like it.
Who am I insulting? I’m saying that some people post every day and rarely if ever comment on other threads lie or otherwise participate are using Ricochet real estate for their vanity projects and seem to have no interest in other posts generally. You think these people are insulted? They aren’t even reading this.
Somehow, I’m not allowed to express my personal frustration about creating original content, scolding me as though I’m trying to cancel people?
As to your theory of ignoring trolls. It just doesn’t work.
BTW, I did NOT elevate or single out the person I referred to in my comment.
I put up a post for discussion yesterday and it was quickly hijacked and filled with block quotes and graffiti. I have no control of how others interact with this person and don’t want such control. But the thread died out. Would it have died without all the block quote vandalism? Maybe, but I, for one, tend to desert threads that become hijacked. It gets boring and tedious.
I never used the phrase “posts too much”. That is not my specific grievance. I’m talking about putting up something every day, or in some cases, three posts in a single day on one subject. By my proposal – which won’t be implemented, so don’t worry – would only affect about 5 people here and would only limit their frequency of posting to a reasonable level to conserve digital real estate here for others.
Concerning the speed with which posts go to the second page: I think the Trending on Ricochet index on the right-hand side of the page compensates for that, especially when there is a significant news event that inspires many posts on the same day. I know I check that list often to make sure I haven’t missed anything I might have wanted to read.
Now that I’ve thought to read the link, it really is hilarious… and apt.
An approach we tried at Chicago Boyz was for people to put up ‘theme’ posts, which summarize and link a number of related posts, either their own or those of other authors. For example, my post Totalitarianism and the Fully Politicized Society, which linked about 15 earlier posts, and Productivity and Economic Growth, which links media articles as well as blog posts.
We haven’t really kept up with that approach, as you can see from the dates on the posts…but we should, and I see no reason why it couldn’t also be used at Ricochet, except that links that go to member-feed-only posts won’t be accessible if & when the Theme post is promoted to the main feed.
Wronged by you? LOL. No. But I see what you’re trying to do there.
Whether they read it or not is immaterial. It’s your insulting comments I’m addressing, not anyone else’s response or non-response to them.
Please show me where I told you you weren’t allowed to express your frustration, speak your mind or create whatever content you like. (I disagree with much of what you said, and I have other remedies than those you propose. That is quite different from telling you you’re not “allowed” to “express [your] personal frustration.” As if I had that power.)
In fact, had you quoted the full paragraph of my comment, others who read your own would have seen that I began by saying:
I think I implied that you might have some good ideas. And that I felt you were not showing them to advantage by using the approach you did. Again, please show me where I tried to shut down your right to “express [your] personal frustration.” So far, as far as I’m aware, the only person who’s suggested curtailing–for fellow members–the right to post and comment at will is yourself.
I completely agree, if you’re saying that (as I’ve observed now for over a decade) there are many here who are constitutionally incapable of ignoring trolls.
As far as whether it works when it’s tried, I suspect it works pretty much in the same way that ignoring narcissists who are constantly trying to get one to feed their supply works. But as far as using the tactic WRT trolls here, it’s the solution that’s never been tried, innit?
That would have been true had you not mentioned the matter at all. But I beg to differ with your conclusion here.
I agree. You have no control over what others do. Neither do I have any control over what they do. That doesn’t stop me appealing to their better natures though. When an obvious troll shows up on a post, I wish that those interested in a worthwhile conversation would simply ignore him and keep the conversation rolling in an interesting and positive direction. (ITSTNBTI?)
You then quote a phrase from my comment where I said that you’d “[suggested] that people who “post too much” should have their offerings limited.” And you took exception:
Apologies for the shorthand, “posts too much,” which you feel misrepresented what you were saying. Let me try again:
Here is your own original statement (emphasis mine):
Not to be nitpicky, but I’m having a hard time seeing how you are just talking about a handful, maybe 5 people, when you talk about “too many who post too frequently,” and follow up with a general statement that the number of posts members are allowed to publish should be limited on a daily, weekly, and monthly basis. It sounds as if you think there are more than a few. And that people who post–in your opinion–too much, need to be throttled.
I hope that’s cleared up any confusion.
Over the years, in efforts to highlight the member feed, we’ve had “posts of the week,” “posts of the year,” “comments of the week,” and IDK all what else. They’ve all died an early and–sometimes–unpleasant death either because they didn’t achieve what some must have thought would be the expected results fast enough, or because they were too much trouble to manage.
Most recently (earlier this year), there was a weekly newsletter, “Greatest Hits of the Member Feed” or some such thing, which appeared as a post on the main feed, in my inbox as a newsletter, and on Ricochet’s Substack page as its own post. At some point the posts and the newsletter disappeared. I wondered about it from time to time, but have other things to occupy me, so I never bothered to follow up.
Now I see that the last update posted to the Ricochet Substack page was on March 26 of this year. So it seems like another idea from the site to “promote” the member feed that has died an early death.
The best people, with the most interest, and the best ideas, to promote the member feed are probably the members themselves.
How do we convince TPTB to work with us to that end?
Both troll and sealion for all their disruption, are random and fairly benign compared to deliberate and subtle fakery for the purpose of malignant restructuring of the conversation, which is what we often see here on Ricochet.
There will always be – we are all human.
Add to the list:
1. There are public, not so public, and private special interest groups members can join. Members can even create groups.
2. Members can attend meetups and get to know other members. They can be as simple as a supper together or as long as a multi -day trek through bourbon country. A recent weekend in Atlanta included shooting clays at a shotgun range.
3. Ricochet collects and provides podcasts and even lets us watch its flagship podcast being made on zoom. One ricochet member even has a series of podcasts produced and participated in by members.
4. Follow the people you want to read so you will get notifications when they post. That way their posts won’t get pushed down and you miss them. I’m always adding more people to my follow list because I am surprised I am not already following them. Today, I added Franco. I checked and was surprised I wasn’t already following him.
Cookies? What cookies? Nobody told me about any cookies!!
Seriously Bryan, a thoughtful and sincere post. Thank you for speaking for many of us.
I must admit that if guilt should be assigned for frequent posters, I’d be at the head of the line. Lately I’ve been posting 4-5 times per week; I know I’m taking up Member Feed space, but I often feel that what I’m writing needs to be said (and I try to make sure that no one else has written on a topic). I’ve also asked for feedback from a few people I trust about my frequency of posting, and I hope they’re correct in assessing that it’s okay; that people can often scroll past.
Seems like if you pays yer money you should feel free to writes yer posts.
I have advocated this course of action forever. One feature of Ricochet is the number of members who simply MUST comment or like an offending member’s post or comment-they cannot help themselves, and that reinforces the offending member’s comments. We do have an “ignore” feature on Ricochet, but it requires self-control to simply ignore something, and no one will notice if they do not see your (lack of) comment. Every time you actually do ignore an offending member’s offensive comment or post, it should reinforce your own sense of self-control, making it more likely that you will ignore the next one. Try it, it works every time.
One big part of the Ricochet Difference (hey, can we trademark this?), is the wide variety of skills and interests demonstrated and posted upon by our members. Everything from computers, to gardening, to knitting, to long-distance bicycling, to arcane questions of law can be found on Ricochet. If you ask a question of the members in a post about just about any topic, you will probably get dozens of answers.
Regarding physical meetups, my big hobby-horse is that travelers to new parts of the US (and the world) will often find members wherever they are going. If you are a Ricochet member, you never have to be alone in a strange city-you will almost always find a Ricochet member to show you around, or just meet you for lunch or dinner. I make a practice of, whenever we have a vacation or trip scheduled, I do a post on the Member Feed asking if anyone along the way wants to get together. Normally, at least one member shows up, further enriching our lives. Our Ricochet Family is continually getting bigger.
Some people won’t like this point, but it’s about posts with a link and two sentences remarking on it. I want to know what you think! If you are only going to put up a link, mark it not to be promoted. (As a Member/Contributor, what you do doesn’t affect me.) I just think 5 seconds of work doesn’t earn promotion.
May I add two more cents to your thoughtful and observant post? I second what you said Bryan, and I have also learned so much from others that post and comment. That is why I log in and read – not so much to hear myself. Quite frankly, I am still amazed when I make it to the Main Feed and that anyone thinks what I write is worthy.
I feel like we as a society and world, are entering treacherous waters. Ricochet is a forum for free speech. That is first and foremost the reason I love it here. It surpasses all the other sites – big and small. There’s no censorship of freedom of thought and ideas, and there’s always a “group” that you can join to further your sharing of thoughts, ideas and sometimes, just fun. Like Cats of Ricochet – !!
Let’s keep talking and remember the amazing times we are witnessing – a Front Row Seat……
signed CAT
I must say that in my non Ricochet world I get rougher treatment than @garyrobbins gives/gets here. I want to treat him as I wanted to be treated.
I love this idea!
Ah, Susan, they are for joining the Dark Side, and, fortunately, that is not where you reside. I need your posts not to sink into darkness.
Hear! Hear!