Electronic Fraud in the 2020 Election: More Likely than Not

 

Cheating in elections is as old as–well, as old as elections. Cheating in elections using paper is as old as the use of paper in elections.  Are we supposed to just assume that cheating in elections using computers is going to be much younger than the use of computers in elections?

I have now come to believe that it is more likely than not that there was electronic cheating in the 2020 election, but this is a defeasible conclusion — meaning that my reasons for thinking this could easily be refuted.

Oh This Is Bad Oh No GIF - Oh This Is Bad Oh No This Is Bad - Discover & Share GIFsDespite its eventual inevitability, it still comes as a jarring paradigm shift for me merely to entertain the idea that such a thing might be true.  I knew America had problems, but I didn’t think one of them was that our elections are so bad as all that. But there is an argument that it is true.

A very simple argument, but also, once again, defeasible: The electronic side of America’s elections is so terribly insecure that it’s difficult to say concerning a close election whether electronic cheating didn’t nudge the winner over the finish line; in this terrible state, it only takes a little evidence to render it more likely than not that this is just what happened; and, unfortunately, we do have a little evidence.

Before Going into Detail, Let’s Outline that Argument Again

The place to begin is not a pleasant one: We have to recognize that we know next to nothing about our elections.  It’s not that we know there was electronic cheating. The tragedy is that we don’t know that there wasn’t.

Ockham’s Razor does not apply here. There’s no default setting here that says, “It didn’t happen.” The default setting is: We’re blind and in the dark with little or nothing to go on. Odds start at about 50/50. And in this situation, even a little bit of comparatively weak evidence nudges things one way or the other.

We may only have a little evidence. But we do have it. So it’s more likely than not that it happened.

So Why Do We Know Nothing?

you don't know anything gifs | WiffleGif

Read my recent post, “The Voting Machines Need To Go,” for a more detailed commentary on the backstory. Briefly, there are three things wrong with the voting machines that destroy trust by destroying trustworthiness. But that’s only the rotten fruit of the problem. The poisoned root is that we don’t know what’s going on in these machines.

They count votes using ratios–56% Trump to 44% Biden with 100 votes . . . or maybe with 113 votes.

They use secret code.

They have online connectivity.

Let’s zoom in on that last one.

A report from a Michigan Senate committee clarifies (see page 22). Many–but not all–of the voting machines do connect to the internet. It’s for reporting results fast, and the modems are supposed to be switched off during the vote count.

Seems safe enough, except for a point made by Father Brown in the writings of G. K. Chesterton: A reliable electronic system needs to be used by an unreliable system–a human being, the most unreliable of all systems.

This, of course, is why we’re supposed to have processes to make unreliable people into reliable people. Courtroom rules and processes. Ways of fact-checking used in history and science and journalism.  In elections, witnesses and transparency and clean, documented chains of custody.

So are there rules in 50 states specifying that the vote count cannot begin until a Republican observer, a Democrat observer, and a government official have all signed on a dotted line specifying that they checked to confirm that the dang modem was switched the heck off?

If there were, would we not have heard about it in every goshdarn fact check since November 2020?

Instead, we heard the myth that the machines don’t connect to the internet at all.

YARN | Socrates. | Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure | Video gifs by quotes | 6d49834b | 紗Without those processes, we know nothing. We begin as Socrates. We stand in a windowless room with the lights off.  We have no evidence that none of the machines were hacked. There are neither rules nor processes to make the system trustworthy.  Our elites and officials tend to be untrustworthy people, but that doesn’t mean they’re lying–they don’t know anything either! Hardly anyone has even a glimmer of clarity except for the ignored bureaucrats at the Election Assistance Commission advising us to get rid of these machines and some people in Michigan who added a footnote on page 22 of a Senate Oversight Committee report explaining the purpose of the modems in the voting machines.

The long and short of it is this: Trusting the electronic vote count means assuming, with no evidence, that no razor-thin margin in a swing state could have been affected because someone, whether through fraud or incompetence, simply left a modem on.  That’s a weak assumption.  Just as if it were the morning after a one-party machine in Philadelphia announces that ballot boxes opened at 3 AM handed an election to the Democrats with no Republicans or cameras present, Ockham’s Razor tells us nothing.

The odds of an electronically stolen election start at about 50/50, not because we can calculate them to that number but because in this ridiculous state of affairs we just know basically nothing.

So What Evidence Is There?

There are at least two lines of evidence which, as far as I know, are still standing.  You can look up the details in Chapter 9 of the big post here (or, for off-Ricochet, here).  The gist is, simply, this:

There are (at least) still claims from nerds that the computer data show disappearing Trump votes and that statistically impossible vote ratios occurred in the vote updates.

YARN | Nerds! | The Simpsons (1989) - S10E09 Comedy | Video gifs by quotes | 76ffcd71 | 紗(Hey, you want some citations?  The part about disappearing Trump votes is from computer nerds who looked at some information in some computer logs and presented it to the Georgia Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Elections. This Epoch Times piece introduces the topic. A briefer intro here. Scott Adams has some interesting commentary hereHere is a June 2021 video on Gab going over a number of such incidents in multiple states.  This guy comments on other candidates than Trump who also had some disappearing votes. For the part about the statistically impossible vote ratios, see a Rumble video called “Unmasked: The Truth About The 2020 Election”. A blog post from Just a Mom here introduces the same sort of material, focusing on data pertaining to North Dakota.  Or . . . click on the big post linked above, and spend some time in Chapter 9!)

I am incapable of classifying this evidence as decisive in and of itself because I lack the ability even to understand the computer talk and/or to check the data.  So this evidence, at least as far as I know, carries only a little bit of weight in and of itself—maybe just enough to tip the scales.

What carries more weight, and what has for the present persuaded me, is this: Apparently no one has refuted these claims; but if these claims are wrong, then someone probably would have by now.

Accordingly, my working opinion on this topic is: Until such time as someone should refute the claims of the nerds about these phenomena or present some explanation for these phenomena other than electronic election fraud, it is likelier than not that electronic election fraud occurred in the 2020 election, and that it, in coordination with other shenanigans documented elsewhere, flipped swing states.

Lord Of The Rings — “Not with ten thousand men could you do this. It...As I said, very defeasible: Show me the refutation, and I reckon I’ll go back to thinking all that happened was all the other election corruption and folly–rather a lot of it, unfortunately.

This line of reasoning does have one other notable vulnerability. It relies on the premise that someone probably would have refuted these claims by now if they were not true.  That seems likely to me–not least because there are many who are eager to refute such claims, who often try, and who sometimes (as far as I can tell) succeed.

But it might not be true. It might be that the people who are responsible for finding the refutations of these guys are just too unintelligent, uninterested, or lazy to do so.  Given the dismal quality of our journalists, government officials, and experts these days, this certainly seems possible.  Looking past the journalists at the whole country, it’s the same problem. Too many of us are strung out on porn, drugs, internet rage, and video games. Too few of us can read sentences with an advanced grammatical construction, fit a premise to a conclusion, or recognize reality when it stares us in the face–which reminds me, what is a woman?

So I could be wrong. But the logic has changed my views to what they are now, and they can’t change back without better logic or new evidence.

So consider yourself invited to change my mind: Do you know of a refutation I don’t know of?

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  1. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):
    There’s a sense that voter fraud is a crime that’s never prosecuted.

    Before you can prosecute, you need suspects. Have we identified any suspects yet?

    I have no clear idea of any answer to that with any putative hacked voting machines.

    But there are plenty of places to start, like the 50k people who illegally voted outside their own counties in Georgia. (See above, “Intro to Eight;” not technically fraud, but illegal.)

    If those were ballots cast by actual people, then yes. The bigger problem is likely to be the ballots that essentially appear from nowhere.

    Which circles back to my point that, if you want to prosecute someone for dumping fraudulent ballots into the system, we need to start by identifying suspects. Got any names in mind?

    I don’t, but there’s video of people dumping ballots. Let the FBI identify them, they seem to get excited about that.

    Tell the feds that evidence of a conspiracy to disrupt school board meetings was being disposed of. They’ll be all over it.

    • #91
  2. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order O… (View Comment):

    Belief in the legitimacy of the 2020 elections is on the same level as believing the earth is flat.

    Just so I’m clear on the ground rules: comparison to 9/11 Truthers is out-of-bounds, but calling someone a Flat-Earther is fair game?

    • #92
  3. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I don’t, but there’s video of people dumping ballots.

    I presume that’s covered somewhere in St. Augustine’s encyclopedia of election fraud allegations, I don’t suppose you could at least point me to the right post?

    • #93
  4. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I don’t, but there’s video of people dumping ballots.

    I presume that’s covered somewhere in St. Augustine’s encyclopedia of election fraud allegations, I don’t suppose you could at least point me to the right post?

    Not offhand, but there’s videos on youtube and elsewhere, showing the same people turning up at drop boxes multiple times, and some memes…

    And that pesky “2000 Mules.”

     

    • #94
  5. DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order Oaf 🚫 Banned
    DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order O… (View Comment):

    Belief in the legitimacy of the 2020 elections is on the same level as believing the earth is flat.

    Just so I’m clear on the ground rules: comparison to 9/11 Truthers is out-of-bounds, but calling someone a Flat-Earther is fair game?

    I am comparing beliefs, not believers. 

    But I suppose I need to ask: do you really believe the 2020 election was totes legit?

    • #95
  6. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I don’t, but there’s video of people dumping ballots.

    I presume that’s covered somewhere in St. Augustine’s encyclopedia of election fraud allegations, I don’t suppose you could at least point me to the right post?

    Not offhand, but there’s videos on youtube and elsewhere, showing the same people turning up at drop boxes multiple times, and some memes…

    And that pesky “2000 Mules.”

     

    “Honey, I’m on my way to the store, want me to drop off your ballot on the way home?”

    I suppose we’ll be rounding those folks up next to send to the guillotine…

    • #96
  7. DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order Oaf 🚫 Banned
    DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I don’t, but there’s video of people dumping ballots.

    I presume that’s covered somewhere in St. Augustine’s encyclopedia of election fraud allegations, I don’t suppose you could at least point me to the right post?

    Not offhand, but there’s videos on youtube and elsewhere, showing the same people turning up at drop boxes multiple times, and some memes…

    And that pesky “2000 Mules.”

     

    “Honey, I’m on my way to the store, want me to drop off your ballot on the way home?”

    “Because I have these 200 other ballots to drop off, too.”

     

     

    • #97
  8. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order O… (View Comment):
    I am comparing beliefs, not believers. 

    For the record, so was Yarob:

    For the same reason, we know that 9/11 wasn’t an inside job. It would have taken hundreds, perhaps thousands of people in the military, the justice system, the FBI, U. S. Customs, the INS, New York City building inspectors, and many other organizations to pull it off, and yet not a single person has confessed to the plot. It’s nonsense, therefore, as is, I believe, the 2020 election conspiracy theory.

    He’s making the point that it’s difficult to keep a large conspiracy secret indefinitely.

    • #98
  9. DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order Oaf 🚫 Banned
    DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order O… (View Comment):
    I am comparing beliefs, not believers.

    For the record, so was Yarob:

    For the same reason, we know that 9/11 wasn’t an inside job. It would have taken hundreds, perhaps thousands of people in the military, the justice system, the FBI, U. S. Customs, the INS, New York City building inspectors, and many other organizations to pull it off, and yet not a single person has confessed to the plot. It’s nonsense, therefore, as is, I believe, the 2020 election conspiracy theory.

    He’s making the point that it’s difficult to keep a large conspiracy secret indefinitely.

    He also insists there was nobody coming forward with information. There were many.

     

    • #99
  10. Globalitarian Lower Order Misanthropist Coolidge
    Globalitarian Lower Order Misanthropist
    @Flicker

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I don’t, but there’s video of people dumping ballots.

    I presume that’s covered somewhere in St. Augustine’s encyclopedia of election fraud allegations, I don’t suppose you could at least point me to the right post?

    Not offhand, but there’s videos on youtube and elsewhere, showing the same people turning up at drop boxes multiple times, and some memes…

    And that pesky “2000 Mules.”

     

    “Honey, I’m on my way to the store, want me to drop off your ballot on the way home?”

    I suppose we’ll be rounding those folks up next to send to the guillotine…

    What is this morbid fascination you have with death for something as benign as corrupting an election involving hundreds of millions of people?  Oh, now I get your point.

    • #100
  11. DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order Oaf 🚫 Banned
    DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Do you also believe the Democrat narrative about January 6th?

     

    • #101
  12. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order O… (View Comment):
    But I suppose I need to ask: do you really believe the 2020 election was totes legit?

    As legitimate as the 2016 election, at any rate.  The points in the OP that voting machines have modems, and there are insufficient protocols in place to ensure they are not connected to the Internet, adds plausibility to the claim that Russia somehow “hacked” the election results in 2016. 

    Though for the record, I don’t think that’s very likely, either.

    • #102
  13. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order O… (View Comment):

    Do you also believe the Democrat narrative about January 6th?

     

    I think Pence did the right thing.  I think all rioters should be prosecuted, though I’d very much like to see the same standards applied to the BLM rioters.

    • #103
  14. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order O… (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I don’t, but there’s video of people dumping ballots.

    I presume that’s covered somewhere in St. Augustine’s encyclopedia of election fraud allegations, I don’t suppose you could at least point me to the right post?

    Not offhand, but there’s videos on youtube and elsewhere, showing the same people turning up at drop boxes multiple times, and some memes…

    And that pesky “2000 Mules.”

     

    “Honey, I’m on my way to the store, want me to drop off your ballot on the way home?”

    “Because I have these 200 other ballots to drop off, too.”

    Note that the people in the meme above appear to be holding 2-3 ballots each, not 200.

    • #104
  15. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Yarob (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It would be refreshing if you were capable of actually addressing the information laid out.

    Bryan,

    This is a personal attack. Personal attacks are a violation of the Ricochet Code of Conduct.

    Please delete it.

    Cheers,

    Mark

    There are several similar comments in this thread, insults directed at me personally, and not for the first time.

    From past comments accusing me of being the pseudonymous reincarnation of an apparently notorious ex-subscriber and Trump sceptic, I gather that more than one mainstream conservative has been driven from Ricochet by the massed forces of uncivil Trump enthusiasts and election conspiracy theorists. Sad, but I am made of sterner stuff and will continue to subscribe and contribute to the enlightenment and education of all through my posts and comments. Enjoy!

    I hope everyone who is subjected to these much-too-frequent personal attacks on Ricochet will hang tough. To quit is to let them—a small minority of us Rico’s—win.

    I hope the Moderators will continue their thankless work of trying to keep our streets clean of this kind of stuff, and even find more effective ways of getting the simple message through to our serial offenders:

    If you disagree with your neighbor’s opinion, attack the opinion…not the person.

    I believe that if these folks knew they wouldn’t get away with it with no consequences, they would stop on their own.

     

    • #105
  16. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    I believe that if these folks knew they wouldn’t get away with it with no consequences, they would stop on their own.

    If that doesn’t work, we can make it a capital crime.

    • #106
  17. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I don’t, but there’s video of people dumping ballots.

    I presume that’s covered somewhere in St. Augustine’s encyclopedia of election fraud allegations, I don’t suppose you could at least point me to the right post?

    Not offhand, but there’s videos on youtube and elsewhere, showing the same people turning up at drop boxes multiple times, and some memes…

    And that pesky “2000 Mules.”

     

    “Honey, I’m on my way to the store, want me to drop off your ballot on the way home?”

    I suppose we’ll be rounding those folks up next to send to the guillotine…

    That’s legal.  What other ballot-drop-box-stuffers did wasn’t.

    • #107
  18. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order O… (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I don’t, but there’s video of people dumping ballots.

    I presume that’s covered somewhere in St. Augustine’s encyclopedia of election fraud allegations, I don’t suppose you could at least point me to the right post?

    Not offhand, but there’s videos on youtube and elsewhere, showing the same people turning up at drop boxes multiple times, and some memes…

    And that pesky “2000 Mules.”

     

    “Honey, I’m on my way to the store, want me to drop off your ballot on the way home?”

    “Because I have these 200 other ballots to drop off, too.”

     

     

    “This trip.”

    • #108
  19. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order O… (View Comment):
    But I suppose I need to ask: do you really believe the 2020 election was totes legit?

    As legitimate as the 2016 election, at any rate. The points in the OP that voting machines have modems, and there are insufficient protocols in place to ensure they are not connected to the Internet, adds plausibility to the claim that Russia somehow “hacked” the election results in 2016.

    Though for the record, I don’t think that’s very likely, either.

    Arguably Russia would have wanted Hillary, but they – and the DNC – just didn’t cheat ENOUGH, because they – especially the DNC and the media (but I repeat myself) – didn’t think they needed to, they thought it was a lock.  By the time of 2020, and with COVID excuses etc, they had the cheating machine oiled up and supercharged.

    • #109
  20. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order O… (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I don’t, but there’s video of people dumping ballots.

    I presume that’s covered somewhere in St. Augustine’s encyclopedia of election fraud allegations, I don’t suppose you could at least point me to the right post?

    Not offhand, but there’s videos on youtube and elsewhere, showing the same people turning up at drop boxes multiple times, and some memes…

    And that pesky “2000 Mules.”

     

    “Honey, I’m on my way to the store, want me to drop off your ballot on the way home?”

    “Because I have these 200 other ballots to drop off, too.”

    Note that the people in the meme above appear to be holding 2-3 ballots each, not 200.

    There’s variations.  And while some might be depositing a few at a time, some of them were accessing additional quantities off-screen.  And there are also the examples with videos of people making multiple trips and dropping off rather large quantities each time.  But it’s harder to make those – of different “running times” etc – into a meme.

    • #110
  21. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    kedavis (View Comment):
    And there are also the examples with videos of people making multiple trips and dropping off rather large quantities each time.

    Which would be evidence of ballot harvesting, rather than evidence of fraudulent ballots.

    • #111
  22. DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order Oaf 🚫 Banned
    DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order O… (View Comment):

    Do you also believe the Democrat narrative about January 6th?

    I think Pence did the right thing. I think all rioters should be prosecuted, though I’d very much like to see the same standards applied to the BLM rioters.

    Not really an answer to my question.

     

     

    • #112
  23. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order O… (View Comment):

    Yarob (View Comment):

    Neither am I comparing him to 9/11 Truthers, . . .

    You did. Right here:

    “For the same reason, we know that 9/11 wasn’t an inside job.”

    Much as I hate to agree with Yarob, that does not appear to be a comparison of me to 9/11 Truthers except in that we both are allegedly using the same bad pattern of thinking. Not much of a comparison if you ask me.

    Nor, as I explained yesterday and to get back to disagreeing with Yarob, an accurate one.

    • #113
  24. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    And there are also the examples with videos of people making multiple trips and dropping off rather large quantities each time.

    Which would be evidence of ballot harvesting, rather than evidence of fraudulent ballots.

    It seems rather unlikely that a regular person could end up with dozens if not hundreds or even thousands of ballots that are all legitimate.

    • #114
  25. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It would be refreshing if you were capable of actually addressing the information laid out.

    Bryan,

    This is a personal attack. Personal attacks are a violation of the Ricochet Code of Conduct.

    Please delete it.

    Cheers,

    Mark

    How is a statement that someone is off-topic a personal attack?

    • #115
  26. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order O… (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Lower Order O… (View Comment):

    Do you also believe the Democrat narrative about January 6th?

    I think Pence did the right thing. I think all rioters should be prosecuted, though I’d very much like to see the same standards applied to the BLM rioters.

    Not really an answer to my question.

     

    You’ll need to be more specific then.

    • #116
  27. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Yarob (View Comment):

    From past comments accusing me of being the pseudonymous reincarnation of an apparently notorious ex-subscriber and Trump sceptic, I gather that more than one mainstream conservative has been driven from Ricochet by the massed forces of uncivil Trump enthusiasts and election conspiracy theorists. Sad, but I am made of sterner stuff and will continue to subscribe and contribute to the enlightenment and education of all through my posts and comments. Enjoy!

    Start with some education for yourself. Let Teigen v. Wisconsin Elections Commission be your first step into a larger world.

    If I were smarter, I would have used the gif below on that very Trump skeptic when he admitted that Teigen was rightly decided–entailing that votes illegally counted were more than the Biden margin of victory in a swing state.  Please give me a chance to correct the omission at the next opportunity.

    YARN | That's Good. You've taken your first step into a ...

    • #117
  28. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):
    There’s a sense that voter fraud is a crime that’s never prosecuted.

    Before you can prosecute, you need suspects. Have we identified any suspects yet?

    I have no clear idea of any answer to that with any putative hacked voting machines.

    But there are plenty of places to start, like the 50k people who illegally voted outside their own counties in Georgia. (See above, “Intro to Eight;” not technically fraud, but illegal.)

    If those were ballots cast by actual people, then yes. The bigger problem is likely to be the ballots that essentially appear from nowhere.

    See Intro to Eight Election Fraud (and Related) Claims. 50,000 people, all actual.  Biden margin of victory in that state: less than 15,000.

    • #118
  29. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):
    A federal law could be proposed enacting a capital offense for any fraud in a federal election.

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    But there are plenty of places to start, like the 50k people who illegally voted outside their own counties in Georgia. (See above, “Intro to Eight;” not technically fraud, but illegal.)

    So would these 50,000 Georgians be facing the death penalty under this proposal?

    Not technically fraud under GA law, which I believe already specifies a penalty.

    I am for that penalty being applied.

    • #119
  30. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):
    There’s a sense that voter fraud is a crime that’s never prosecuted.

    Before you can prosecute, you need suspects. Have we identified any suspects yet?

    I have no clear idea of any answer to that with any putative hacked voting machines.

    But there are plenty of places to start, like the 50k people who illegally voted outside their own counties in Georgia. (See above, “Intro to Eight;” not technically fraud, but illegal.)

    If those were ballots cast by actual people, then yes. The bigger problem is likely to be the ballots that essentially appear from nowhere.

    Which circles back to my point that, if you want to prosecute someone for dumping fraudulent ballots into the system, we need to start by identifying suspects. Got any names in mind?

    I don’t, but there’s video of people dumping ballots. Let the FBI identify them, they seem to get excited about that.

    Yes. Providing names is mostly the business of law enforcement, not of people who study computer logs. Not Gregory Stenstrom whose testimony to about 50k votes in PA with a bad chain of custody was confirmed in fact-checking. (Etc., etc.) Not my job either.

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