What Are Some Things You Agree with Liberals On or Can At Least Kinda, Sorta See Their Point?

 

One of my axioms is that you never see a political sign reading “Both sides have some good points.” I’m the furthest thing from a leftist; frankly, the current Republican Party is too far left of plum for me. But even though I don’t often agree with liberals/Democrats/moderates, I can sometimes agree with their diagnosis, even if I disagree with their solution. Here are a few examples:

Police Reform. I have said before that I think police reform is an issue that should be done thoughtfully and intelligently, but that politicians are incapable of thoughtful, intelligent reforms. I have been proven right as every reform to date has simply been to stop catching criminals and letting the ones they previously caught out of prison. I am not in favor of defunding the police, but I think the structure of law enforcement is outdated (and this is also true of other institutions on our society). It really doesn’t make sense to have the same guys who chase murderers and drug dealers handle mental illness situations. And maybe separate training programs and units for distinct functions would not be a bad idea. Also, the police are way too militarized. I don’t see a need for any city of less than, maybe, half a million people to have a SWAT Team. Also, I think all police cars should be high-visibility vehicles like in Europe. And, yeah, there needs to be a lot more independent oversight of police departments. No-Knock raids should be illegal. Also, the cops who shot Daniel Shaver, Ryan Whitaker, and Ismail Lopez should be in prison.

The Military Budget Is Bloated.  I did not always feel that way. What changed is seeing the military waste billions on overly complex, incredibly expensive, and ultimately ineffective or unnecessary weapons systems. Just to name a few, the F-35 fighter (“can’t climb, can’t turn, can’t run“), the Littoral Combat Ship, $5 Billion wasted on a “digital camouflage pattern” for Army uniforms that were less effective than the old pre-digital camouflage pattern. Or they spend billions on new, expensive, systems that they don’t need and that don’t work; like the “automatic” refueling system on the KC-46, or the magnetic launch system on the Ford-class carriers.  All of America’s ridiculously complex and expensive weapons were defeated by a few thousand goat herders with AK-47s and Toyota HiLuxes.  The military can get by with less costly, less complex weapons systems, and lose future wars at far lower cost to the taxpayer.

Wealthy People Should Pay More Taxes. Because, screw them, most of them vote for Democrats any way. Ideally, the Government would be cut back to levels that could be sustained at lower tax rates, but we all know that’s never going to happen. That being the case, lower-income quintiles should also pay more in taxes because everybody should have some skin in the game. Where I part company with liberals, is I really think the whole tax code should be thrown out in favor of a national sales tax and a flat tax.

There are probably a few other things. I would also agree about wealth inequality, but I have yet to see a policy solution that doesn’t lead to Venezuela. But I have very strong disagreements with them on their authoritarian policy proposals, Government-run health care, letting people get away with crimes and rioting,  mass immigration and open borders and… oh, what’s that other thing we disagree on? Oh yeah, brainwashing children into the Alphabet People Sex Cult.

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  1. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    If we start putting up compact nukes, we will need ***z e r o*** wind turbines and solar panels.

    No- I want wind turbines off of Cape Cod!

    • #61
  2. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Damn, this guy from mises.org was just on Dennis Prager. Excellent interview. Talking exactly about what everybody is talking about here. He got the whole half hour, which rarely happens. 

    He had an incredible fact. In 2008, Ron Paul calculated that if you completely reduced all of the spending by the income tax, it would only take government spending back 15 years. 

     

     

     

    • #62
  3. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):
    The hippies’ complaints sounded a lot like my thoughts now.

    This is me.

    • #63
  4. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    navyjag (View Comment):

    OK with 1 of three. The military budget. Way to high and going to the wrong things. DEI bureacrats. More carriers and soldiers. And support them.

    More smaller carriers, (eggs /basket), to counter the Chinese asymmetric strategy of targeting irreplaceable super carriers.

    • #64
  5. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Franco (View Comment):

    Victor Tango Kilo (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):
    Republicans are ill-informed generally on the superior technology of electric cars and their ultimate viability. They are so fixated on the environmental claims made by lefties and the virtue-signaling they can’t see the massive upside to the new technology.

    In my experience, conservatives seem well-informed about EVs and the problems associated with them: limited range (“but better batteries are just around the corner” as they have been saying since about 1972), rapid degradation in battery life, insufficient grid capacity to support them, the massive environmental cost of mining lithium and rare earth metals.

    So, no, I don’t see any upside to a technology that costs more, does less, and harms the environment.

    This is outdated. EVs are pushing the range to over 300 miles per charge and it will keep going up. Tesla has chargers almost everywhere and most people use cars for commuting and short trips anyway. Charging times are speeding up too. I don’t know who can’t take a 30-45 minute break on a road trip to eat, pee and stretch after 250 miles of driving.

    EVs are probably okay for city driving where it never dips below freezing. Would not want one for -20 below rural driving. Like where I live. But the Central Planners don’t really want us traveling at all. It’s lockdown by another means. And no, you don’t take a 45 minute stop to recharge on a 250 mile trip. You take a ten minute stop to gas up, pee out, and grab something from the Kwik Trip, and off you go again.

    • #65
  6. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Chuck (View Comment):
    Local elections prove my point.  It isn’t a matter of good/bad, right/wrong, better/worse, it’s simply who says what the voter most wants to hear and how persuasive they are.  If what they most want to hear is “Republican”, guess what?

    Democrats win anyway?

    Because that’s how it is here.

    Because Democrats know how to steal elections from the President on down to dog-catcher.

    • #66
  7. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    You think of all the fossil fuel production that gets halted by one kangaroo rat, and then you think of the millions of birds chopped up by wind turbines every year, . . . and then you understand that “saving the animals” is all a lie.

    • #67
  8. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

     

     

     

    • #68
  9. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

     

     

     

     

    • #69
  10. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

     

     

     

     

    But AOC is certain that electricity can be obtained for free with no carbon emissions-

     

     

    • #70
  11. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    navyjag (View Comment):

    OK with 1 of three. The military budget. Way to high and going to the wrong things. DEI bureacrats. More carriers and soldiers. And support them.

    More smaller carriers, (eggs /basket), to counter the Chinese asymmetric strategy of targeting irreplaceable super carriers.

    Sorry but not putting all your eggs in one basket is a conservative position. It might not be a pure free market but it is not a leftist position.

    • #71
  12. Victor Tango Kilo Member
    Victor Tango Kilo
    @VtheK

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):
    And no, you don’t take a 45 minute stop to recharge on a 250 mile trip. You take a ten minute stop to gas up, pee out, and grab something from the Kwik Trip, and off you go again.

    I can’t imagine waiting around a charging station for 45 minutes x the number of EVs in line also waiting to be recharged. Also, I understand “rapid” charging accelerates the degradation of the battery.

    • #72
  13. Chuck Coolidge
    Chuck
    @Chuckles

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Chuck (View Comment):
    Local elections prove my point. It isn’t a matter of good/bad, right/wrong, better/worse, it’s simply who says what the voter most wants to hear and how persuasive they are. If what they most want to hear is “Republican”, guess what?

    Democrats win anyway?

    Because that’s how it is here.

    Because Democrats know how to steal elections from the President on down to dog-catcher.

    Well, yes, because liars lie.  Works even for dog-catchers.

    • #73
  14. Chuck Coolidge
    Chuck
    @Chuckles

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):

    Victor Tango Kilo (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):
    Republicans are ill-informed generally on the superior technology of electric cars and their ultimate viability. They are so fixated on the environmental claims made by lefties and the virtue-signaling they can’t see the massive upside to the new technology.

    In my experience, conservatives seem well-informed about EVs and the problems associated with them: limited range (“but better batteries are just around the corner” as they have been saying since about 1972), rapid degradation in battery life, insufficient grid capacity to support them, the massive environmental cost of mining lithium and rare earth metals.

    So, no, I don’t see any upside to a technology that costs more, does less, and harms the environment.

    This is outdated. EVs are pushing the range to over 300 miles per charge and it will keep going up. Tesla has chargers almost everywhere and most people use cars for commuting and short trips anyway. Charging times are speeding up too. I don’t know who can’t take a 30-45 minute break on a road trip to eat, pee and stretch after 250 miles of driving.

    EVs are probably okay for city driving where it never dips below freezing. Would not want one for -20 below rural driving. Like where I live. But the Central Planners don’t really want us traveling at all. It’s lockdown by another means. And no, you don’t take a 45 minute stop to recharge on a 250 mile trip. You take a ten minute stop to gas up, pee out, and grab something from the Kwik Trip, and off you go again.

    Forget those 4 hour 250 mile trips: I see a horse and buggy in your future.

    • #74
  15. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Franco (View Comment):

    I would couch my opinion more in what conservatives are/were wrong about than what liberals (do they even exist?) were/are right about.

    Corporations were never great, always a trade-off, but useful economically. While I am a free-market capitalist myself, I’ve changed my position on multi-national corporations over the last 10 years when they became focused on influencing the government. Yes, they always did this, but at some point it became a threat and we are now living in an ever growing fascist-adjacent environment.

    The drug war was devastating to civil liberties.

    The war in Iraq was a mistake and so was the Vietnam war.

    Republicans are ill-informed generally on the superior technology of electric cars and their ultimate viability. They are so fixated on the environmental claims made by lefties and the virtue-signaling they can’t see the massive upside to the new technology. I disagree with the vigorous phase-out of ICE vehicles however. Even Musk himself finds it too much.

    Many conservatives are over-focused on the morality of their leaders as a litmus test for getting good representation. The game-theory of this dynamic gives us pathetic losers like Romney ( who the left still finds ways to vilify). All this type of candidate does is pat Republicans on the head with platitudes and promises and either loses or becomes a serial compromiser-in-chief. Of course all we have to do is watch how they reacted to Trump.

    Conservatives are generally quite wrong about civil liberties and ‘law and order’. The police have been given way too much leeway and most police forces are at least somewhat corrupt and lawless themselves. The left were off-base on charges of racism on police (yes there’s some) but it’s more that there’s a very toxic us versus them element in almost every force.

    On the FBI, CIA etc. the leftists were absolutely right.

    The Patriot Act was/is a travesty.

     

    I was still a card carrying Democrat when the Patriot Act was extended back in 2013. I knew then it would come to bite Americans themselves in the butt.

    However what I would have never predicted in a million years is that when the Patriot Act allowed an Administration to go  totally Third Reich-y, with a President calling for reprisals against extremist Republicans, that I would be one  of those extremist Republicans!

    • #75
  16. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Chuck (View Comment):

    Forget those 4 hour 250 mile trips: I see a horse and buggy in your future.

    And that doesn’t even work for the Amish. (They are always getting rides into town from neighbors who have trucks.)

    • #76
  17. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Franco (View Comment):
    Republicans are ill-informed generally on the superior technology of electric cars and their ultimate viability. They are so fixated on the environmental claims made by lefties and the virtue-signaling they can’t see the massive upside to the new technology. I disagree with the vigorous phase-out of ICE vehicles however. Even Musk himself finds it too much. 

    One of the problems is that Republicans always argue policy from the framework built by the left. Instead of “this is the wrong way to address climate change,” they should instead be challenging the very basis of “climate change.”

    • #77
  18. Ansonia Member
    Ansonia
    @Ansonia

    It might be I can almost kinda sorta see their point about some—-not many, perhaps, but some—-of the books certain conservative parents think should be taken out of a high school library.

     

    • #78
  19. Victor Tango Kilo Member
    Victor Tango Kilo
    @VtheK

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):
    One of the problems is that Republicans always argue policy from the framework built by the left. Instead of “this is the wrong way to address climate change,” they should instead be challenging the very basis of “climate change.”

    “Climate Change is real, but Capitalism can solve it” is a position guaranteed to alienate both sides.

    • #79
  20. Dave of Barsham Member
    Dave of Barsham
    @LesserSonofBarsham

    Franco (View Comment):
    I don’t know who can’t take a 30-45 minute break on a road trip to eat, pee and stretch after 250 miles of driving.

    I like your enthusiasm, but you need to meet some more people I think. Just as an example, I need to travel from where I live in TN to Charleston, SC for work in a few weeks. Because of the work that I do (and the fact that we can’t depend on airlines not to cancel on you these days) I need to drive so that I can carry the gear I need. This trip will take about 10.5 hours not counting stops for gas, etc… so it’s usually about 11-ish hours. If I’m in an EV the need to stop and charge every 250 miles will add about three hours to my trip. I’m sorry, no. I’ve made this trip many times and a 5-10 min max stop to fill up and grab some caffeine is more than enough. My dislike for the “love” of EV technology and the left’s push to mandate it is that the people who seem to love them don’t use them for work purposes. The theoretical 25o mile range depends on a LOT of factors like temperature (except for some high end Teslas), weight, terrain, etc.  Adding all that into the equation could likely mean that my 10.5 hour trip is now a 17 or 18 hour trip. The average person in a mid to large city who is commuting to an office job or doing a weekend vacation (who also may have just lost a couple of hours of to charging) doesn’t look at the impact to people who’s work and requirements are vastly different. You may have time to sit at a charging station stretching  your legs for nearly an hour so you can keep going, but some of us don’t. Also, the idea that “chargers are almost everywhere,” is wrong. I live outside major metropolitan areas. You can add a few more stops to the theoretical long haul because when your 250 is up, you may not be anywhere near “the” singular charging station in that medium city just off the interstate, or have none available at all if it’s a small town. That means you’re going to have to be strategic and stop when you can to top off twice as often as you would with an ICE. I’m not against the technology, and in 20 or 30 years it very well may be worth considering, even for those of us who use their vehicles as more than personal transportation, but right now it’s a niche market for people who live in larger urban centers that are driving to an “in range” location every day, and that’s just not all of us.

    • #80
  21. GlennAmurgis Coolidge
    GlennAmurgis
    @GlennAmurgis

    I would about the military spending and taxes on the wealthy only if it would address debt. The left will think up some new entitlement to waste these tax dollars on

    • #81
  22. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    GlennAmurgis (View Comment):

    I would about the military spending and taxes on the wealthy only if it would address debt. The left will think up some new entitlement to waste these tax dollars on

    You can’t do anything about spending any more or debt reduction. It would crash the economy.

    The best way to do it is right after the Soviet Union fell, the whole West should have switched to natural interest rates instead of central bank interventionism. It is impossible for there to be such bad debt to GDP ratio’s with natural interest rates.

    • #82
  23. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Dave of Barsham (View Comment):
    This trip will take about 10.5 hours not counting stops for gas, etc… so it’s usually about 11-ish hours. If I’m in an EV the need to stop and charge every 250 miles will add about three hours to my trip. I’m sorry, no. I’ve made this trip many times and a 5-10 min max stop to fill up and grab some caffeine is more than enough.

    You speak for me as well.  When I drive, I can drive 1200 miles in 14 – 15 hours.  I can do it in one gas stop.  Stopping every 3 hours and spinning my wheels for 45 minutes is crazy and adds 3 hours.

    And then I know two guys who each had their batteries go bad at around 70,000 miles and decided just to buy a new gasoline car.  Who ever has to pay $10,000 for a new gas car motor every 70,000 miles?

    And on top of that, I have to get a cell phone and mapping app, and then make sure I get to the next charging station, wherever that may be.

    • #83
  24. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    This is an interesting subject. I have a route that takes six hours with normal breaks. Low pressure driving. I so badly want to take a different path that adds 20 minutes just because it would be safer, it has more services and more is more brain dead easy, but I just can’t do it. It’s only 5% were talking about. The problem is you think about that last 5% when you are 5% away. lol 

    • #84
  25. Gossamer Cat Coolidge
    Gossamer Cat
    @GossamerCat

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):

    Gossamer Cat (View Comment):

    navyjag (View Comment):
    But the weirdest part GC is how these idiots have got all the forecasts wrong for over 50 years and people are still listening to this crap:

    Yup, I don’t know why they seemed determined to believe in gloom and doom. And they fall for it every time. Must be in their nature.

    Exactly. I have always wondered about this too. Don’t they want the world to be safe from environmental destruction? Don’t they want it to be healthy?

    So when it is discovered that the doomsayers might be lying, or just wrong, why are they not rejoicing? Why do they insist in the face of evidence that the planet is still doomed, when one would think they would be eager to hear the good news.

    I wondered the same thing about Covid.  They seemed to want bad news.  It’s a sickness.

    • #85
  26. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Franco (View Comment):

    Victor Tango Kilo (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):
    This is outdated. EVs are pushing the range to over 300 miles per charge and it will keep going up. Tesla has chargers almost everywhere and most people use cars for commuting and short trips anyway. Charging times are speeding up too. I don’t know who can’t take a 30-45 minute break on a road trip to eat, pee and stretch after 250 miles of driving.

    The good news is even if you have a bad prostate you will have plenty of time to pee while your car recharges-FYI-it is a lot longer than 30-45 minutes. 

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/i-rented-an-electric-car-for-a-four-day-road-trip-i-spent-more-time-charging-it-than-i-did-sleeping-11654268401

     

    • #86
  27. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Kevin Schulte (View Comment):

    Busch and Cheney are wicked people.

    No, they’re not.

    • #87
  28. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Victor Tango Kilo (View Comment):

    We can’t pretend the economy is a meritocracy where everyone has an equal shot. Being born into a wealthy family means having connections and privileges that the lower economic strata simply don’t have.

    It would seem that this is one of your strongest agreements with the Left.

     

    • #88
  29. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):

    Gossamer Cat (View Comment):

    navyjag (View Comment):
    But the weirdest part GC is how these idiots have got all the forecasts wrong for over 50 years and people are still listening to this crap:

    Yup, I don’t know why they seemed determined to believe in gloom and doom. And they fall for it every time. Must be in their nature.

    Exactly. I have always wondered about this too. Don’t they want the world to be safe from environmental destruction? Don’t they want it to be healthy?

    So when it is discovered that the doomsayers might be lying, or just wrong, why are they not rejoicing? Why do they insist in the face of evidence that the planet is still doomed, when one would think they would be eager to hear the good news.

    Amen, Brother. Same thing I’ve been saying.  If the environment turns out to be good and stable (which it is), the poor environmentalists would have nothing left to live for.  That’s why they flee from all the good news.

    • #89
  30. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Victor Tango Kilo (View Comment):

    We can’t pretend the economy is a meritocracy where everyone has an equal shot. Being born into a wealthy family means having connections and privileges that the lower economic strata simply don’t have.

    It would seem that this is one of your strongest agreements with the Left.

     

    Of course some are born “luckier” than others, but the cure for that is far worse than the disease.

    • #90
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