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Are Asians and Hispanics Really Just a Fifth Column for Big Government?
I don’t know, really, whether it would be good or bad politically for Republicans to tackle immigration reform this year. Some say it would be divisive and distract from the party’s Obamacare critique. Others argue that waiting would inject the issue into the 2016 GOP presidential race.
Generally, however, I am in favor of implementing good policy ideas ASAP. And reform that would legalize undocumented workers and create a more-skills based system would be a big net plus economically. (Timing-wise, as Reihan Salam argues, passing a jobs act for the long-term unemployed might be of higher priority.)
Columnist Ann Coulter apparently doesn’t want that sort of immigration reform today, tomorrow, or ever. But’s it’s not just a piece of legislation she’s against. Coulter is pretty much dubious of all immigration, full stop.
Immigrants — all immigrants — have always been the bulwark of the Democratic Party. … This is not a secret. For at least a century, there’s never been a period when a majority of immigrants weren’t Democrats. … The two largest immigrant groups, Hispanics and Asians, have little in common economically, culturally or historically. But they both overwhelmingly support big government, Obamacare, affirmative action and gun control. … At the current accelerated rate of immigration — 1.1 million new immigrants every year — Republicans will be a fringe party in about a decade … why on Earth are they bringing in people sworn to their political destruction?
1.) Of the 11 million illegal aliens, only 80% are Latino, and only 40% or so might actual seek citizenship. And probably less than half of those will vote. So amnesty might provide Dems with an additional 1 million votes. How would amnesty have played out in the 2012 election? Sean Trende: “Using these numbers, not a single state would have cast its votes for the electors of a different candidate in 2012. In fact, in 28 states, the president’s margin would have increased by just a half-point or less.”
2.) I have been worried that fears of a further influx of unskilled Hispanic labor would metastasize into undifferentiated restrictionism. Well, here we are. So now (some) conservatives don’t want the brainiacs, either? According to a Harvard study, immigrants generally account for about a quarter of the US workforce engaged in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics fields.What’s more, according to Pia Orrenius of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, immigrants accounted for well over 50% of the growth in employment in STEM-related fields between 2003 and 2008. So we want those foreign PhDs only if they are big 2nd Amendment supporters?
3.) Such a static way of viewing the world. Maybe Republicans will always have electoral problems with low-income immigrants. But can’t Republicans improve their showing with them — not to mention those Hispanics and Asians natives and immigrants in the middle and upper class — with the same set of pro-growth, pro-mobility policies that might appeal to all Americans? A CBS News report earlier this year points out that Hispanic households earning more than $100,000 were actually more likely to call themselves Republicans than Democrats, but warns that “if over the long term Hispanic voters see a distinction between the parties based more heavily through the lens of group attachments, economics matters less” Republicans won’t be able to make much progress.
And that scenario seems far more likely to happen if Republicans treat Hispanics and Asians as a fifth column for Big Government rather than voters to be persuaded by policies that appeal to their concerns and by politicians who see them more than just a category in a poll’s crosstabs.
Published in General
The instinct to withdrawal and condemn illegal immigrants shows a lack of charity. If you want to ensure that immigrants do not become dependent on the state, offer them an alternative through assisting their joining the community groups, working on their individuals skills, and getting their kids educated. If the immigrants cannot read, why not teach them? Or should we condemn to illiteracy because we fear their numbers?
Again, conservatives, o ye of little faith! ·17 minutes ago
What other laws should we break and repeal?
I think taxes are BS. Should we allow tax vagrants amnesty? Where do I sign?
I think it makes you reasonable.
United States schools are legally required to educated children who are in the country illegally. Try again. ·9 minutes ago
Yes, thanks to a court case that originated in Houston Texas.
Welcome to Texas where our citizens have to send our children to private schools because we are over run with non-English speaking children of illegal aliens.
There are a lot of illegals in our jails and prisons who have “experienced America” through the police. Owl is right about that.
If you want to ensure that immigrants do not become dependent on the state, offer them an alternative through assisting their joining the community groups, working on their individuals skills, and getting their kids educated. If the immigrants cannot read, why not teach them? Or should we condemn to illiteracy because we fear their numbers?
Again, conservatives, o ye of little faith! ·17 minutes ago
I’ll offer them an easier alternative – encourage them to obey our damned laws! I am so tired of being told I’m the bad guy for objecting to my children’s birth right being sold for a mess of pottage. We built the Pentagon, the largest office building in the world with eight zip codes, in fourteen months despite the bottlenecks and inconveniences caused by WWII. We can’t build a dual tier fence across open desert in 20 years? After the fence, after E-Verify, after biometric ID’s, then we can discuss amnesty.
If you think that is bad, roll by the US Chamber of Commerce. Something died in there !!
Pethokoukis is a Reform Conservative(i.e . not that conservative) and so is the guy he mentions, Reihan Salam. I would like to see a supply-side tax cut to energize a sluggish economy, not uncontrolled immigration. But Reform Conservatives don’t believe in tax cuts. Can we start by deporting all the Reform Conservatives to California, at least the ones who are not already there.
United States schools are legally required to educated children who are in the country illegally. Try again. ·9 minutes ago
Yes, thanks to a court case that originated in Houston Texas.
Welcome to Texas where our citizens have to send our children to private schools because we are over run with non-English speaking children of illegal aliens. ·5 minutes ago
As someone who grew up on the border and went to a private Catholic high school after spending several years in the dreadful public education system, I can confirm this.
You have to give Owl of Minerva some credit for being the only one to agree with James and stand up for illegal immigration. Yeah, her argument is even weaker than James’s, and her Bircher reference is insulting, and she certainly talks like a lefty, but it takes some guts to weigh in on the wrong side in front of God and everyone.
And James, illegal immigrants are only a “net economic plus” if your only measure is whether they save some companies some money by driving down wages. Give them the vote or not, they still cost a fortune in schools, health care, prisons, welfare, etc.; and pay little in taxes.
AEI and the WSJ should really take a look at the bigger picture. As for me, I would rather pay more for my lettuce than support the 20 million illegals currently in the country, and tens of millions more who are on the way, with my tax dollars.
And there are bridges across the Rio Grande to bus them back where they came.
The Reform Conservatives are trying to find ways to find conservative solutions to the problems we currently face, rather than the the problems we faced 20 years ago -and they also include Mike Lee and Ted Cruz in their number. Furthermore, Reihan Salam is -if you follow the link -arguing against Pethokoukis on this point -as is another Reform Conservative, Ramesh Ponnuru. You don’t have to agree with them, but give them some credit for trying to do the gentle, gradual reforms that Burke thought was so important -as opposed to the radical and clunky changes that got us into this mess.
The Reform Conservatives are trying to find ways to find conservative solutions to the problems we currently face, rather than the the problems we faced 20 years ago -and they also include Mike Lee and Ted Cruz in their number. Furthermore, Reihan Salam is -if you follow the link -arguing against Pethokoukis on this point -as is another Reform Conservative, Ramesh Ponnuru. You don’t have to agree with them, but give them some credit for trying to do the gentle, gradual reforms that Burke thought was so important -as opposed to the radical and clunky changes that got us into this mess. ·2 minutes ago
The radical clunky changes that got us into this mess were all toward the left. Unwinding this mess isn’t going to be a day at the spa.
The Reform Conservatives are trying to find ways to find conservative solutions to the problems we currently face, rather than the the problems we faced 20 years ago -and they also include Mike Lee and Ted Cruz in their number. Furthermore, Reihan Salam is -if you follow the link -arguing against Pethokoukis on this point -as is another Reform Conservative, Ramesh Ponnuru.
Concur.
Roger Simon has a very good post on this: http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2014/01/30/modest-proposal-immigration/
We very well may have too little legal immigration, but we have a whole lot of illegal immigration. Where is the equality in rewarding line jumping? That’s the dilemma.
Should we give amnesty to looters because they came upon a chaotic scene of looting and weren’t amongst the first 200 looters? How good will looted shop owners feel when they get their property tax bill after the looters are forgiven?
The instinct to withdrawal and condemn illegal immigrants shows a lack of charity. If you want to ensure that immigrants do not become dependent on the state, offer them an alternative through assisting their joining the community groups, working on their individuals skills, and getting their kids educated. If the immigrants cannot read, why not teach them? Or should we condemn to illiteracy because we fear their numbers?
Again, conservatives, o ye of little faith! ·54 minutes ago
A welfare state and open borders cannot coexist. Who said that ?
How about a ten-year moratorium on ALL immigration?
And there are bridges across the Rio Grande to bus them back where they came. ·10 minutes ago
We certainly don’t want them to be “unrooted”. We want them to be rooted in their home countries. It is amazing how they constantly talk about divided families. So let’s help them not be divided. Put them back together.
I’m pretty much getting the idea from Boehner and Co., Jennifer Rubin, and now from Mr. Pethokoukis, that because I don’t want to see people rewarded for breaking U.S. law, I am a frightened racist.
The Democrats hate my guts, the Republicans hold me in utter contempt. Fine. I’ve voted in every election, Presidential and off-year, since 1972. It’s probably time to stay home in 2014. I know my vote won’t be missed.
A few things.
I’m from Texas. Attended Catholic schools there. My mom is a public school teacher who focuses on students with behavioral disorders. My job has a lot to do with public policy, so I’m not just rolling into the thread to troll or insult people. I’m just calling it like I see it.
The commenters here, if not all of Ricochet, are suffering from a serious echo chamber problem. Jim has no reason to respond to anyone here because the answers are not serious. They consist largely of emotional responses that appeal to the biases of other commenters. The closest to real debate has been a midrash over Coulter’s language and the confusing attempt to invent the category of “Reform Conservatism” and group thinkers into it for easier wholesale rejection. Who would want to respond to this? And why would they, if they did? Plus, he probably has things to do on a Friday night.
Some of you may not be Birchers, but I recommend taking a look at Bircher language just to see how easily it is to mistake the discussion here for it.
The instinct to withdrawal and condemn illegal immigrants shows a lack of charity.
How is it that expressing desire for having secure borders and rule of law translates into condemning people? Yet people of Owl’s persuasion seem to do that in every argument – judging people’s level of charity and compassion based on a legal argument. Because I’m for enforcing the same laws as EVERY other country in the world does, I lack charity?
I know illegal immigrants. I’ve probably hired them too. I don’t want them deported en masse, but neither do I want them fasttracked to citizenship en masse. They came here illegally and that’s their problem. I don’t feel sorry for them in the least, they have a better life here apparently. They are the lucky ones. Maybe Owl would do better flying to Mexico and helping those unfortunates. Preaching to people you don’t know about their level of ‘charity’ is pretty arrogant.
If in 10 years I have to smuggle myself into Peru because it’s a better life than New Jersey (it could happen at this rate), I won’t expect sympathy.
Sabrdance: Reihan Salam’s proposals on immigration are Rube Goldberg-like contraptions that have little to no chance of ever being enacted. That and the fact that he refers to illegal immigrants as “unauthorized immigrants” indicates he favors amnesty. Ramesh Ponnuru spent 2008 writing love letters to John McCain and 2012 defending Jon Huntsman against those who had the temerity to call him a moderate. This is the only way forward for conservatives?!
If you wanted a friendlier tone, respond more respectfully. How about this: instead of selecting the subject you wish to discuss without concern for the content of the original post, follow the form of the original post for debate. In this case, discuss points 1-3 in order with citation of evidence (not, however, of merely opinion pieces of people you agree with) to explain your position. Unsure from where he’s getting his number?
Try to find out yourself to see if they hold up. You never know; he might be right! And then you might have to change your mind. I did just this, found Jim’s post at AEI’s ideas, then discovered that his citation of Trende took us to…
The Reformed Conservative Center for the Undermining of American Values and Vexation of Franco and Other Ricochet Members (or RCCUAVVFORM for short).
Just kidding. It was from Pew, an industry standard in social science data collection.
Anyway, as for responses to me, I’m not surprised that you guys confused my appeals to civil society for appeals to government intervention. Folks here and “libertarian populists” more broadly are politically energized because of a sense of personal powerlessness about policy issues affecting their daily life. They seem themselves, as individuals or families, nakedly exposed to government pressures and utterly without appeal except for a) appealing to political heroes, i.e. Cruz, et al. or b) prophesying the end of the existing regime as final relief from repression (the Ragnarok of the Welfare State).
Consequently, when I mentioned civil society, you assumed I meant state because, if it’s not you or a market, there’s nothing else. That’s my point; there are other institutions. Churches, volunteer groups, local communities, neighborhoods, and the like all have the resources to intervene in ways more constructive than government programs. The best way to preempt an immigrant’s attraction to the left is for conservatives to use local groups to provide support independently of government programs. The benefits are numerous: the volunteer groups are rejuvenated, government burdens lowered, and volunteers improved spiritually through their outreach.
Works for me.
We very well may have too little legal immigration, but we have a whole lot of illegal immigration. Where is the equality in rewarding line jumping? That’s the dilemma.
We take in about 1 million legal immigrants a year. That is an absurd number.
I’m going to start out of order just to annoy you. Your appeals to civil society as you characterize your comments, are not relevant to this thread. The thread is about government intervention, and most here don’t want this type of intervention, at least in the form commonly advocated. Appeals to civil society appearing wholly out of context imply those of us who disagree with JP and you are not interested in having one, which is absurd. Besides missing the point, your assumptions are revealing and somewhat insulting. Do you realize how pompous you come off?
That’s my point; there are other institutions. Churches, volunteer groups, local communities, neighborhoods, and the like all have the resources to intervene in ways more constructive than government programs. The best way to preempt an immigrant’s attraction to the left is for conservatives to use local groups to provide support independently of government programs. The benefits are numerous: the volunteer groups are rejuvenated, government burdens lowered, and volunteers improved spiritually through their outreach.
This is a completly different argument than the rest of us are having with this post. I don’t disagree, by the way. This thread isn’t about how conservatives can attract immigrant to their cause. There has been some discussion of the futility of converting a majority of these people in a timely manner such that granting voting rights to them won’t end up as a disaster. But how to attract these people is for another thread.
Your diagnosis and your lecturing is duly noted. Isn’t there a pulpit somewhere in your town you can occupy?
Notice who is absent from this conversation? The originator. One could argue that he successfully trolled Ricochet.
I’m not asking for a friendlier tone, I’m just calling you out on your insults and pointing out hypocrisy on your part. The content of the original post had nothing to do with civil society so I’d hope you would stop imputing peoples views on legal issues to their wishes for a civil society. In fact legal issues exist in order to facilitate civil society.
As to the points. Frank Soto took them apart systematicaly, and when it comes to studies and statistics in these kinds of complex and virtually impossible matter of counting millions of people who don’t wish to be counted, it’s ALL opinion.
The way I see it, the horse is out of the barn. There’s a laundry list of problems associated with illegal immigration, but for me, the creation of an ever increasing Democrat voting bloc is near the top. The illegals aren’t going home and their progeny are citizens of the U.S. They may or may not be in favor of amnesty, but they do vote Democrat. Pew projects that “82% of the (population) growth during this period will be due to immigrants arriving from 2005 to 2050 and their descendants.” The Hispanic community organizers seem to be hard core Marxists, and working hard to radicalize this population. There may be good sense policies to pursue, e.g., enforcing existing law, but I don’t see this happening due to the current occupants of D.C. As Yogi Berra may have said, “It’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future.” But the future looks increasingly statist, with bigger Democrat majorities, regardless of what we decide to now.