McNamara’s 100,000, Phase 2

 

The Army has started a remedial prep program for otherwise unqualified enlistees.

Some of you may not be aware of the disastrous Project 100,000, which was a Vietnam-era project to accept large numbers of enlistees otherwise unqualified for service.  It eventually involved 300,000 soldiers who died at disproportionately high rates and had more difficulty adjusting to civilian life.

I guess it’s not a surprise that this sort of thing is happening; the service senior leadership has abandoned core missions to focus on politically progressive goals.  Something like 75 percent of enlistment-age Americans can’t qualify to join the military.  I can’t cite any dispositive proof but I believe that lowering standards means a cohort of troops much less likely to question orders.  That means when performing the core mission they are less likely to show initiative and overcome the chaos of the battlefield, and when our progressive overlords finally decide to ignore Posse Comitatus and use our military directly against American citizens these soldiers will be more likely to pull the trigger.

The end of the American experiment inches ever closer.

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  1. EODmom Coolidge
    EODmom
    @EODmom

    I agree to the risk – I think they will be much less likely to question “some” orders. Others will be unenforceable – just like the VietNam era.  How well do they follow direction now in civilian life? They are much less likely to be able to develop the requisite disciple to learn the basic skills to manage themselves and work with others to achieve difficult missions. Personal discipline generates real physical and intellectual muscle memory and allows an adult to function in average productive activity. That’s even before you get to the skill necessary to use the advanced and very complex equipment that even boots are responsible for.  And there will be far fewer skilled and committed noncoms to keep them from getting themselves and others killed while they actually learn the real stuff. There aren’t that many real “cannon fodder” jobs anymore. There are lots of things that kill people by “user error.”

    • #1
  2. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Tex929rr: I can’t cite any dispositive proof but I believe that lowering standards means a cohort of troops much less likely to question orders.

    I’ve never been in the military.  It seems to me that the propensity to question orders is not a positive quality in the military.

    • #2
  3. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    On the main point of the OP: I’ve looked at the links about “McNamara’s 100,000” (who actually numbered about 300,000, as noted in the OP).

    It appears that the principal issue with these troops was low IQ, in the 10th to 30th percentile range.  It should not be a surprise that lower IQ is correlated with poorer performance, as this is the common result of IQ studies.  One of the links claims that part of the reason for the higher fatality rate of this cohort was an issue of job assignment — higher IQ troops are qualified for more technical positions, which apparently are somewhat safer, while lower IQ troops tended to be put in the infantry.

    Why should a citizen with lower IQ get a pass on military service?  He may still be able to make a contribution.  Maybe such troops are somewhat less effective as soldiers, on average, but it’s not clear to me that this implies that they should be sheltered from the risks faced by the more intelligent.

    It’s also not clear that the current recruiting shortfall is related to McNamara’s 100,000.  It is troubling that only about 25% of young Americans would meet the military’s current qualifications.  Why is this?  Is it a matter of physical fitness?  Is it drug use?  Is it something else?

    One of the linked articles suggests that the recruiting problem, at least in part, may be the result of a low unemployment rate.

    In these circumstances, the sensible reaction for the military seems to be exactly what they are doing — lower standards and offer remedial education and training.

    • #3
  4. Doctor Robert Member
    Doctor Robert
    @DoctorRobert

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    It is troubling that only about 25% of young Americans would meet the military’s current qualifications.  Why is this?  Is it a matter of physical fitness?  Is it drug use?  Is it something else?

    Great questions.

    Physical fitness can be remedied.

    Drug user can be prevented.

    Intellectual issues, however, may not be so solvable.

    • #4
  5. Richard Easton Coolidge
    Richard Easton
    @RichardEaston

    They’re dismissing trained troops who refuse to get a jab which they don’t need. Maybe they could change this. Oh wait, it’s the malicious idiots in the Biden administration.

    • #5
  6. Vance Richards Member
    Vance Richards
    @VanceRichards

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    It is troubling that only about 25% of young Americans would meet the military’s current qualifications. Why is this? Is it a matter of physical fitness? Is it drug use? Is it something else?

    Great questions.

    Physical fitness can be remedied.

    Drug user can be prevented.

    Intellectual issues, however, may not be so solvable.

    According to this, it seems like obesity and an inability to pass the basic entrance exam are the top causes.

    • #6
  7. Old Bathos Moderator
    Old Bathos
    @OldBathos

    Dim bulbs heavily indoctrinated with woke crapola and armed…. What could possibly go wrong?

    When I was in my last of my three years in the Army (1972-1975), I was stationed at the AFIP at Walter Reed.  The enlisted personnel (from all branches of service) was exceptionally qualified.  Guys with doctorates, people who scored off the charts on testing–all drafted (or induced to volunteer with a nudge from the draft).

    The first crop of replacements from the new volunteer army were a huge dropoff.  I ran a clinical lab in support of animal research.  The guy they sent to me for training and orientation joined the Army because he said he could not pay off his credit obligation to Woolworths.  Pleasant enough fellow, not sharp, barely familiar with terminology.. but Woolworths?!  How the hell is that possible?

    The all-volunteer force greatly stepped up quality (and compensation)  after we got over the post-Nam malaise but we seem to be moving downward again.

    • #7
  8. 9thDistrictNeighbor Member
    9thDistrictNeighbor
    @9thDistrictNeighbor

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    It is troubling that only about 25% of young Americans would meet the military’s current qualifications.  Why is this?  Is it a matter of physical fitness?  Is it drug use?  Is it something else?

    Having been prescribed ADHD medication in the previous 24 months, having an IEP after age 14 (special education Individual Education Plan) and other mental health issues disqualify you.  The strange thing is that having an IEP in some school districts is considered desirable for people who want their kids to have even more of an advantage.  If your IEP gives you extra time to take tests, including the SAT or other college entrance exam, or other accommodations, well, that has nothing to do with someone having ADHD.  They are just gaming the system.  However, the military exams have no accommodations, so the person must be able to do well on one.

     If someone took ADHD meds and truly wanted to join the  military there are all sorts of other hoops to jump through, but mostly you have to demonstrate (doctor’s notes, etc.) that you can function responsibly without the medication and have done so for a long time.  Army, Navy and Marines are about one year, AirForce about 15 months, and the Coast Guard is basically not interested in persons who have taken ADHD meds.  

    • #8
  9. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Why are young people dumber and more mentally ill now? Also, why is weight among the young increasing? The only things that comes to mind is single motherhood and dysgenic breeding. Has anybody here read At Our Wit’s End?

    • #9
  10. Captain French Moderator
    Captain French
    @AlFrench

    Project 100,000 was for draftees, not enlistees.

    • #10
  11. Tex929rr Coolidge
    Tex929rr
    @Tex929rr

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Tex929rr: I can’t cite any dispositive proof but I believe that lowering standards means a cohort of troops much less likely to question orders.

    I’ve never been in the military. It seems to me that the propensity to question orders is not a positive quality in the military.

    That’s a common assumption made by people who have never served.   And it’s why our modern military has been so effective.  A three man rifle team can easily  be cut off from and have to make their own decisions.  The more elite the warrior, the more they are expected to be self directed.

    Officers from other countries’ armies are always dumbfounded that we put a brand new 2LT in charge of an entire platoon.  It’s because our strength is highly skilled and highly trained and self directed non-commissioned officers.  

    • #11
  12. Tex929rr Coolidge
    Tex929rr
    @Tex929rr

    Captain French (View Comment):

    Project 100,000 was for draftees, not enlistees.

    It was roughly 50-50 but draftees are still enlisted service members.

    • #12
  13. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Tex929rr (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Tex929rr: I can’t cite any dispositive proof but I believe that lowering standards means a cohort of troops much less likely to question orders.

    I’ve never been in the military. It seems to me that the propensity to question orders is not a positive quality in the military.

    That’s a common assumption made by people who have never served. And it’s why our modern military has been so effective. A three man rifle team can easily be cut off from and have to make their own decisions. The more elite the warrior, the more they are expected to be self directed.

    Officers from other countries’ armies are always dumbfounded that we put a brand new 2LT in charge of an entire platoon. It’s because our strength is highly skilled and highly trained and self directed non-commissioned officers.

    Could you elaborate?

    It seems to me that a propensity to disregard orders is an unambiguously bad thing.

    It also seems to me that an ability to take initiative is a good thing, and needs to be balanced with a capability to follow orders.  It seems to me that it is a good thing for more senior officers to encourage such initiative, within limits, but it also seems to me that it must be the more senior officer who decides whether to delegate, or not.

    Am I mixed up about this?

    • #13
  14. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Why are young people dumber and more mentally ill now? Also, why is weight among the young increasing? The only things that comes to mind is single motherhood and dysgenic breeding. Has anybody here read At Our Wit’s End?

    I have not read the book that you reference.

    Your list of possible causes is too short, I think.  I can certainly hypothesize a number of reasons for an increase in obesity, other than single motherhood and dysgenic breeding.  Bad eating habits, lack of PE, increased use of electronic devices (including video games) all come to mind.  With respect to eating habits, even two-parent families may not be the same as in the past, if the mother works and the family relies more on fast food or other meals that are not home-cooked.

    I don’t think that there’s much evidence that young people today are “dumber” than they used to be.  You can visit the NAEP website and see for yourself (here are overview pages for 12th grade reading and math).  The general trend is pretty flat, which is a bit surprising in light of changing demographics.

    From 2005 to 2019, average reading score declined from 286 to 285, and average math score was the same, 150.  The math test was re-normed in 2005.  The average reading scores are down since 1992 (292), but most of that drop occurred in 1994 (287).

    I’m not sure about “dysgenic pressure,” though it is theoretically possible.  The trend in math scores by racial or ethnic group (here) was up for all groups from 2005 to 2019:

    Whites up from 157 to 159

    Blacks up from 127 to 128

    Hispanics up from 133 to 138

    Asian/Pacific Islander up from 163 to 173

    The last category may be misleading because I think that there was a fairly recent and significant increase in the “Asian” portion of “Asian/Pacific Islander.”  This is a very disparate group, with Pacific Islanders generally having lower scores than whites and Orientals/east Asians having higher scores. 

     

    • #14
  15. Tex929rr Coolidge
    Tex929rr
    @Tex929rr

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Tex929rr (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Tex929rr: I can’t cite any dispositive proof but I believe that lowering standards means a cohort of troops much less likely to question orders.

    I’ve never been in the military. It seems to me that the propensity to question orders is not a positive quality in the military.

    That’s a common assumption made by people who have never served. And it’s why our modern military has been so effective. A three man rifle team can easily be cut off from and have to make their own decisions. The more elite the warrior, the more they are expected to be self directed.

    Officers from other countries’ armies are always dumbfounded that we put a brand new 2LT in charge of an entire platoon. It’s because our strength is highly skilled and highly trained and self directed non-commissioned officers.

    Could you elaborate?

    It seems to me that a propensity to disregard orders is an unambiguously bad thing.

    It also seems to me that an ability to take initiative is a good thing, and needs to be balanced with a capability to follow orders. It seems to me that it is a good thing for more senior officers to encourage such initiative, within limits, but it also seems to me that it must be the more senior officer who decides whether to delegate, or not.

    Am I mixed up about this?

    You asked about questioning orders and now you turned it into “a propensity to disregard orders”.  Those are two completely different things.  As long as an order is legal you are bound to follow it, but questioning orders and knowing when it’s appropriate and when it’s not are the hallmarks of good leaders.  At the end one is bound to follow legal orders given by superiors.  Sometimes situations change and orders are overcome by events, and that’s when independent thinkers are most valuable.  No plan survives first contact with the enemy (an old quote but I’m not sure of the provenance).

    • #15
  16. navyjag Coolidge
    navyjag
    @navyjag

    Remember that program. Disaster for the Navy. And the largest contingent wound up on the carriers. Thrill a minute the ship’s JAGC lawyer. Me.  Did get to see the transition after the draft ended on ’72.  Noticeable improvement in quality of enlisted in the year before I left. Thought there was hope. Now back in the sewer again. 

    • #16
  17. Captain French Moderator
    Captain French
    @AlFrench

    navyjag (View Comment):

    Remember that program. Disaster for the Navy. And the largest contingent wound up on the carriers. Thrill a minute the ship’s JAGC lawyer. Me. Did get to see the transition after the draft ended on ’72. Noticeable improvement in quality of enlisted in the year before I left. Thought there was hope. Now back in the sewer again.

    During the VN war the Navy and Air Force got plenty of volunteers so had no draftees. Not so the Marines and, of course, the Army. When Project 100,000 was hatched, the Navy was forced to take its share. (I don’t know about the Air Force.) this was reportedly at the insistence of the Army, to share the pain. 

    • #17
  18. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    Captain French (View Comment):

    navyjag (View Comment):

    Remember that program. Disaster for the Navy. And the largest contingent wound up on the carriers. Thrill a minute the ship’s JAGC lawyer. Me. Did get to see the transition after the draft ended on ’72. Noticeable improvement in quality of enlisted in the year before I left. Thought there was hope. Now back in the sewer again.

    During the VN war the Navy and Air Force got plenty of volunteers so had no draftees. Not so the Marines and, of course, the Army. When Project 100,000 was hatched, the Navy was forced to take its share. (I don’t know about the Air Force.) this was reportedly at the insistence of the Army, to share the pain.

    No surprise that the Navy and Air Force got plenty of volunteers.  In the Air Force, in most cases, it was only the pilots and PJs who saw the real action. As for the Navy, in most cases, it was only the pilots and the brown water navy who got eyeball to eyeball with the enemy. (Excluding John Kerry, of course.)

    At the height of the draft, Navy and Air Force recruiters had a pretty easy time hitting their quotas.  I don’t know it for a fact, but I heard that Coast Guard recruiters only came to their office once a week.

    As for Guard and Reserve, it was almost impossible to find an opening.  College students had that highly-coveted 2-S deferment.

    McNamara was running out of bodies; thus, McNamara’s Morons.

    Does everyone know the lyrics to Fortunate Son?  CCR really nailed it.

    *************************

    I just remembered that the other Navy personnel who were in serious harm’s way were the gutsy corpsmen who were attached to the Marines.

    Also, just as an extra factoid, here is the breakdown of all of McNamara’s Morons:

    Army – 71%

    Marines – 10%

    Navy – 10%

    Air Force – 9%

    I have no idea how DOD came up with these percentages; possibly the percentage of people in-country but I’m not certain

    • #18
  19. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    Captain French (View Comment):

    Project 100,000 was for draftees, not enlistees.

    Well, not all of them.  How it went down was that Army recruiters were given the names and addresses of all those unfortunates who BOLO’d their AFQTs.  The recruiters then went to those folks and told them how great it was that the Army was giving them a “second chance” at becoming a soldier.  Some of them turned it down; others took the bait.

     

    • #19
  20. navyjag Coolidge
    navyjag
    @navyjag

    CACrabtree (View Comment):

    Captain French (View Comment):

    navyjag (View Comment):

    Remember that program. Disaster for the Navy. And the largest contingent wound up on the carriers. Thrill a minute the ship’s JAGC lawyer. Me. Did get to see the transition after the draft ended on ’72. Noticeable improvement in quality of enlisted in the year before I left. Thought there was hope. Now back in the sewer again.

    During the VN war the Navy and Air Force got plenty of volunteers so had no draftees. Not so the Marines and, of course, the Army. When Project 100,000 was hatched, the Navy was forced to take its share. (I don’t know about the Air Force.) this was reportedly at the insistence of the Army, to share the pain.

    No surprise that the Navy and Air Force got plenty of volunteers. In the Air Force, in most cases, it was only the pilots and PJs who saw the real action. As for the Navy, in most cases, it was only the pilots and the brown water navy who got eyeball to eyeball with the enemy. (Excluding John Kerry, of course.)

    At the height of the draft, Navy and Air Force recruiters had a pretty easy time hitting their quotas. I don’t know it for a fact, but I heard that Coast Guard recruiters only came to their office once a week.

    As for Guard and Reserve, it was almost impossible to find an opening. College students had that highly-coveted 2-S deferment.

    McNamara was running out of bodies; thus, McNamara’s Morons.

    Does everyone know the lyrics to Fortunate Son? CCR really nailed it.

    *************************

    I just remembered that the other Navy personnel who were in serious harm’s way were the gutsy corpsmen who were attached to the Marines.

    Also, just as an extra factoid, here is the breakdown of all of McNamara’s Morons:

    Army – 71%

    Marines – 10%

    Navy – 10%

    Air Force – 9%

    I have no idea how DOD came up with these percentages; possibly the percentage of people in-country but I’m not certain

    Simple Crab.  Army needed the cannon fodder.  Not that many crappy jobs in the Air Force. On the carriers they were hauling stuff or cleaning out the heads. 

    • #20
  21. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    navyjag (View Comment):

    CACrabtree (View Comment):

    Captain French (View Comment):

    navyjag (View Comment):

    Remember that program. Disaster for the Navy. And the largest contingent wound up on the carriers. Thrill a minute the ship’s JAGC lawyer. Me. Did get to see the transition after the draft ended on ’72. Noticeable improvement in quality of enlisted in the year before I left. Thought there was hope. Now back in the sewer again.

    During the VN war the Navy and Air Force got plenty of volunteers so had no draftees. Not so the Marines and, of course, the Army. When Project 100,000 was hatched, the Navy was forced to take its share. (I don’t know about the Air Force.) this was reportedly at the insistence of the Army, to share the pain.

    No surprise that the Navy and Air Force got plenty of volunteers. In the Air Force, in most cases, it was only the pilots and PJs who saw the real action. As for the Navy, in most cases, it was only the pilots and the brown water navy who got eyeball to eyeball with the enemy. (Excluding John Kerry, of course.)

    At the height of the draft, Navy and Air Force recruiters had a pretty easy time hitting their quotas. I don’t know it for a fact, but I heard that Coast Guard recruiters only came to their office once a week.

    As for Guard and Reserve, it was almost impossible to find an opening. College students had that highly-coveted 2-S deferment.

    McNamara was running out of bodies; thus, McNamara’s Morons.

    Does everyone know the lyrics to Fortunate Son? CCR really nailed it.

    *************************

    I just remembered that the other Navy personnel who were in serious harm’s way were the gutsy corpsmen who were attached to the Marines.

    Also, just as an extra factoid, here is the breakdown of all of McNamara’s Morons:

    Army – 71%

    Marines – 10%

    Navy – 10%

    Air Force – 9%

    I have no idea how DOD came up with these percentages; possibly the percentage of people in-country but I’m not certain

    Simple Crab. Army needed the cannon fodder. Not that many crappy jobs in the Air Force. On the carriers they were hauling stuff or cleaning out the heads.

    Hmmm.  That was strange.  I thought I replied to you but I don’t see it. I’ll try it again.

    It’s not that simple.  The Marines needed some cannon fodder too.  I’m not sure how they ended up with 10%.  My suspicion is that they dug in their heels and said no. OR, the allocation was based on in-country numbers which I’m not sure of.  10% just seems a bit low for the number of Marines in-country.

    • #21
  22. Captain French Moderator
    Captain French
    @AlFrench

    CACrabtree (View Comment):
    No surprise that the Navy and Air Force got plenty of volunteers.  In the Air Force, in most cases, it was only the pilots and PJs who saw the real action. As for the Navy, in most cases, it was only the pilots and the brown water navy who got eyeball to eyeball with the enemy. (Excluding John Kerry, of course.)

    I hate to defend Kerry, but he did see combat.

    • #22
  23. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    Captain French (View Comment):

    CACrabtree (View Comment):
    No surprise that the Navy and Air Force got plenty of volunteers. In the Air Force, in most cases, it was only the pilots and PJs who saw the real action. As for the Navy, in most cases, it was only the pilots and the brown water navy who got eyeball to eyeball with the enemy. (Excluding John Kerry, of course.)

    I hate to defend Kerry, but he did see combat.

    Well, that’s a real sore spot with me.  Technically, he did see some action.  However, the three questionable purple hearts not to mention the Silver Star recommendation he wrote for himself along with the fact that he was back in the States after four months; well, you get the gist of why I don’t like the guy.

    I don’t ever want to think about his actions when he returned to the States.

    • #23
  24. navyjag Coolidge
    navyjag
    @navyjag

    CACrabtree (View Comment):

    navyjag (View Comment):

    CACrabtree (View Comment):

    Captain French (View Comment):

    navyjag (View Comment):

    Remember that program. Disaster for the Navy. And the largest contingent wound up on the carriers. Thrill a minute the ship’s JAGC lawyer. Me. Did get to see the transition after the draft ended on ’72. Noticeable improvement in quality of enlisted in the year before I left. Thought there was hope. Now back in the sewer again.

    During the VN war the Navy and Air Force got plenty of volunteers so had no draftees. Not so the Marines and, of course, the Army. When Project 100,000 was hatched, the Navy was forced to take its share. (I don’t know about the Air Force.) this was reportedly at the insistence of the Army, to share the pain.

    No surprise that the Navy and Air Force got plenty of volunteers. In the Air Force, in most cases, it was only the pilots and PJs who saw the real action. As for the Navy, in most cases, it was only the pilots and the brown water navy who got eyeball to eyeball with the enemy. (Excluding John Kerry, of course.)

    At the height of the draft, Navy and Air Force recruiters had a pretty easy time hitting their quotas. I don’t know it for a fact, but I heard that Coast Guard recruiters only came to their office once a week.

    As for Guard and Reserve, it was almost impossible to find an opening. College students had that highly-coveted 2-S deferment.

    McNamara was running out of bodies; thus, McNamara’s Morons.

    Does everyone know the lyrics to Fortunate Son? CCR really nailed it.

    *************************

    I just remembered that the other Navy personnel who were in serious harm’s way were the gutsy corpsmen who were attached to the Marines.

    Also, just as an extra factoid, here is the breakdown of all of McNamara’s Morons:

    Army – 71%

    Marines – 10%

    Navy – 10%

    Air Force – 9%

    I have no idea how DOD came up with these percentages; possibly the percentage of people in-country but I’m not certain

    Simple Crab. Army needed the cannon fodder. Not that many crappy jobs in the Air Force. On the carriers they were hauling stuff or cleaning out the heads.

    Hmmm. That was strange. I thought I replied to you but I don’t see it. I’ll try it again.

    It’s not that simple. The Marines needed some cannon fodder too. I’m not sure how they ended up with 10%. My suspicion is that they dug in their heels and said no. OR, the allocation was based on in-country numbers which I’m not sure of. 10% just seems a bit low for the number of Marines in-country.

    Remember this.  In ’68 or so after the Tet offensive clear the Marines needed more infantry.  Then the draft stated it would select 10% of all draftees to the Marines; rest to the Army. 

    • #24
  25. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Yes, I say sarcastically, that I’m all in favor of putting those with the lowest IQs in places where people with the lowest IQ are most likely to die.

    Without sarcasm, what kind of brutish, self-centered, amoral, animalistic bull[redacted] is this?

    • #25
  26. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Yes, I say sarcastically, that I’m all in favor of putting those with the lowest IQs in places where people with the lowest IQ are most likely to die.

    Without sarcasm, what kind of brutish, self-centered, amoral, animalistic bull[redacted] is this?

    Unfortunately, Robert Strange McNamara is not around to answer your question…

    • #26
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