I choose my friends carefully. Or, at least, I thought I did.

 

I’m friends with everybody. I’m even friends with people that I don’t like all that much, if that makes any sense. I like people, in general.  Or at least, I accept them as they are.  And as you might imagine, a person as flawed as I am tends to be very tolerant of the flaws of others. However, despite having lots of friends, I have very few close friends. The type of people that I could call at any time of the day or night, and say, “I have a problem,” and that person would put down the phone and come to my house immediately.  Friends like that are rare.  For me, at least.

“Tom” is one of my closest friends.  We’ve known each other for over 20 years.  We’ve built barns and decks together.  We’ve done electrical work and plumbing together.  We’ve run duct work, worked on cars, welded trailers together, and done I don’t even know what else together.  We’ve also sat around a lot of campfires and drank a lot of beer together.  And bourbon.  And moonshine (that Tom made himself – great stuff).  Tom is a hard-working man of faith and integrity, and I trust him implicitly.  He was always great with my kids, and was a true asset to our little community in the mountains of East Tennessee.  Anyone that had a problem could just call Tom.  He could fix anything, and was happy to help anyone.  And he could always call me to come help fix whatever it was.  We understand each other.

A friend called me one day and told me that Tom’s house had been raided by the police.  They took his computer etc, saying that he had been downloading child pornography.  They told him that they would analyze his files, and would be back to arrest him in a few months.  I told my friend that the police were out of their freaking minds.  My friend said no, he had inside information, and it was true.  I hung up on him.  Bull crap.  Obviously.  Sheesh.  That was a few months ago, and I haven’t spoken to my friend since then.

At least, not until this morning, when my friend called and told me that Tom had killed himself an hour ago.

I know you two were pretty tight, so I didn’t want you to find out in the papers.”

Me:  “Yeah.  Ok.  Thanks.”

And I hung up on him again.  I’ll call and apologize later.  I guess.

So maybe my friend was right about the child pornography stuff.  Maybe.

Although I still don’t know, obviously.  If asked to testify in court, I would still say that Tom was one of my closest friends, and that there is just no way that he would download child pornography.  Ridiculous.  That just cannot be true.  This just can’t be right.

Perhaps I would be wrong.  I guess.

I can’t wrap my head around this.  If my friend had said, “Tom grew wings and flew to New Zealand,” that would have made more sense.

I’m not even sure how I feel right now.  I feel sad that I’ll never see my friend again.  Friends such as Tom are rare (very rare, in my case), and there’s a huge hole in my life now.

I also feel angry.  And confused.  And betrayed.  And, um, almost dizzy.

We all have demons that haunt us.  Most of us resist them as best we can.  I don’t judge how other people deal with their demons, because I struggle with my own.  I’ve gotten myself in plenty of trouble in the past over my desires, and I like women.  Whenever I’ve done something truly stupid in my life, it was generally because of a beautiful woman.  It wasn’t really my fault.  Honestly.

But my goodness.  Regardless of whose fault it is, there are certain things that one simply does not do.  Regardless of what one feels.  Some things are beyond the pale.  Child pornography?  It doesn’t matter how strongly one is drawn to that.  Some things are beyond the pale.  I mean, honestly…

I am very selective about my closest friends.  Or, at least, I thought I was.  I am, right?

I feel horrible.  In many different ways.

I grew up in the second poorest county in Ohio.  Lots of social problems.  I have friends in low places.  Convicted murderers, drug dealers, thieves, and so on.  They’re my friends, and I don’t endorse some of the decisions they make, but they are still my friends.

But this one has me disoriented.  This is different.  Child pornography?  I mean, honestly…

This seems different than my other friends, who have struggled with other demons.  Partially because this was one of my 2-3 closest friends I have on this planet.  And partially because I just can’t forgive what he did.  Or what he apparently did.  I guess.  Surely not.  But maybe.  I guess.


I pray that Tom finds peace.  I pray that God’s will be done.  I pray that those two prayers are congruent.

I believe I’ll have just one more drink.  Maybe four.

Tom is my friend.  I love him.  I’ll call his wife and ask how I can help.  He would do the same for me.  Because Tom is my friend.

But my goodness.  What on earth?

This hurts.

Sometimes the worst possible answer is that there is no answer.

Regardless, this hurts.

Published in General
This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 83 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    CACrabtree (View Comment):

    iWe (View Comment):

    I have seen what happens when accusations are made and a person loses all their friends in the world.

    I have multiple friends who were accused of molesting step-daughters. All were fully acquitted – the girls eventually admitted they just hated their step-dad, etc. But the pathway was HORRIBLE.

    I was accused of visiting one of them in prison. I felt terrible, because I had not done so. And should have.

    The blowback from the accusation sucks a person out of their soul.

    No doubt about that. It’s worth a quick read to go back and review the horrible daycare trials of the 80s and 90s. As it turned out, unscrupulous psychologists were planting ideas in small childrens’ heads and ambitious DA’s were only too happy to bring charges against the hapless daycare owners. Almost all of them had their convictions overturned but their lives were ruined.

    No doubt about planting ideas in small children’s heads. I was a small child then, and I made it a rule I will not be left alone with anyone under 18. That rule has carried on into adulthood and into present day.

    All the Nieces, Nephews, Cousins, and then some born over the years no one asked Me to babysit, because They knew what the answer would be.

    I babysat two girls (5 and 12) one day a week for several months due to mandatory changes in the mother’s work schedule. I was always uncomfortable with it, but the mother was a great person, they were like family and liked helping out and doing it. But one day she reneged on something very important and said, “Why should I?” and I couldn’t trust her anymore. For me, it takes a whole lot of trust to babysit. And after that I stopped baby-sitting altogether.

    I think it’s prudent for adult males to avoid being alone with solitary young people who aren’t their own children. In the years I spent driving my kids to sporting events, school, etc., I always declined to bring a single child who wasn’t one of mine anywhere. In recent years I’ve relaxed that with very short trips involving the young cousins I tutor, and who see me almost daily, but that’s it.

    Which seems odd when statistically, most child abuse is committed by women, especially the mothers who have the most access.

    Well, this is the problem with all vague “abuse” accusations. I have no idea what abuse, spousal abuse, verbal abuse, physical abuse, child abuse, and sexual abuse, all actually mean when they’re sited.

    What kind of child abuse is committed predominantly by women?

    All kinds overall, although the physical violence may be less severe than when men do it even if men do it less often.  For women/mothers I suppose neglect would make up most of it.

    • #61
  2. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):
    No doubt about planting ideas in small children’s heads. I was a small child then, and I made it a rule I will not be left alone with anyone under 18. That rule has carried on into adulthood and into present day.

    Over-18s can make false accusations too.

    • #62
  3. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I’ve relaxed that

    Not Me.

    So if I’m ever in court, then it would be unanimous, rock solid, from all the character and eye witnesses that I would never be alone with the defendant.

    But you’d be the defendant.  You could be in solitary and there would the defendant be also.

    • #63
  4. Jimmy Carter Member
    Jimmy Carter
    @JimmyCarter

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    CACrabtree (View Comment):

    iWe (View Comment):

    I have seen what happens when accusations are made and a person loses all their friends in the world.

    I have multiple friends who were accused of molesting step-daughters. All were fully acquitted – the girls eventually admitted they just hated their step-dad, etc. But the pathway was HORRIBLE.

    I was accused of visiting one of them in prison. I felt terrible, because I had not done so. And should have.

    The blowback from the accusation sucks a person out of their soul.

    No doubt about that. It’s worth a quick read to go back and review the horrible daycare trials of the 80s and 90s. As it turned out, unscrupulous psychologists were planting ideas in small childrens’ heads and ambitious DA’s were only too happy to bring charges against the hapless daycare owners. Almost all of them had their convictions overturned but their lives were ruined.

    No doubt about planting ideas in small children’s heads. I was a small child then, and I made it a rule I will not be left alone with anyone under 18. That rule has carried on into adulthood and into present day.

    All the Nieces, Nephews, Cousins, and then some born over the years no one asked Me to babysit, because They knew what the answer would be.

    I babysat two girls (5 and 12) one day a week for several months due to mandatory changes in the mother’s work schedule. I was always uncomfortable with it, but the mother was a great person, they were like family and liked helping out and doing it. But one day she reneged on something very important and said, “Why should I?” and I couldn’t trust her anymore. For me, it takes a whole lot of trust to babysit. And after that I stopped baby-sitting altogether.

    I think it’s prudent for adult males to avoid being alone with solitary young people who aren’t their own children. In the years I spent driving my kids to sporting events, school, etc., I always declined to bring a single child who wasn’t one of mine anywhere. In recent years I’ve relaxed that with very short trips involving the young cousins I tutor, and who see me almost daily, but that’s it.

    Which seems odd when statistically, most child abuse is committed by women, especially the mothers who have the most access.

    Well, this is the problem with all vague “abuse” accusations. I have no idea what abuse, spousal abuse, verbal abuse, physical abuse, child abuse, and sexual abuse, all actually mean when they’re sited.

    What kind of child abuse is committed predominantly by women?

    No kidding. I’ve always heard the abuse is committed predominantly by the Mom’s boyfriend. 

    • #64
  5. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I’ve relaxed that

    Not Me.

    So if I’m ever in court, then it would be unanimous, rock solid, from all the character and eye witnesses that I would never be alone with the defendant.

     

    They would argue that was just your cover story.

    • #65
  6. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    CACrabtree (View Comment):

    iWe (View Comment):

    I have seen what happens when accusations are made and a person loses all their friends in the world.

    I have multiple friends who were accused of molesting step-daughters. All were fully acquitted – the girls eventually admitted they just hated their step-dad, etc. But the pathway was HORRIBLE.

    I was accused of visiting one of them in prison. I felt terrible, because I had not done so. And should have.

    The blowback from the accusation sucks a person out of their soul.

    No doubt about that. It’s worth a quick read to go back and review the horrible daycare trials of the 80s and 90s. As it turned out, unscrupulous psychologists were planting ideas in small childrens’ heads and ambitious DA’s were only too happy to bring charges against the hapless daycare owners. Almost all of them had their convictions overturned but their lives were ruined.

    No doubt about planting ideas in small children’s heads. I was a small child then, and I made it a rule I will not be left alone with anyone under 18. That rule has carried on into adulthood and into present day.

    All the Nieces, Nephews, Cousins, and then some born over the years no one asked Me to babysit, because They knew what the answer would be.

    I babysat two girls (5 and 12) one day a week for several months due to mandatory changes in the mother’s work schedule. I was always uncomfortable with it, but the mother was a great person, they were like family and liked helping out and doing it. But one day she reneged on something very important and said, “Why should I?” and I couldn’t trust her anymore. For me, it takes a whole lot of trust to babysit. And after that I stopped baby-sitting altogether.

    I think it’s prudent for adult males to avoid being alone with solitary young people who aren’t their own children. In the years I spent driving my kids to sporting events, school, etc., I always declined to bring a single child who wasn’t one of mine anywhere. In recent years I’ve relaxed that with very short trips involving the young cousins I tutor, and who see me almost daily, but that’s it.

    Which seems odd when statistically, most child abuse is committed by women, especially the mothers who have the most access.

    Well, this is the problem with all vague “abuse” accusations. I have no idea what abuse, spousal abuse, verbal abuse, physical abuse, child abuse, and sexual abuse, all actually mean when they’re sited.

    What kind of child abuse is committed predominantly by women?

    No kidding. I’ve always heard the abuse is committed predominantly by the Mom’s boyfriend.

    Again, that’s probably the physical abuse.  And it may be limited to parents who aren’t together, etc.

    Mothers would be more verbal abuse, emotional abuse, etc, and neglect including not feeding the children, neglect could also include allowing access by “boyfriends” etc…

    • #66
  7. Jimmy Carter Member
    Jimmy Carter
    @JimmyCarter

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I’ve relaxed that

    Not Me.

    So if I’m ever in court, then it would be unanimous, rock solid, from all the character and eye witnesses that I would never be alone with the defendant.

    But you’d be the defendant. You could be in solitary and there would the defendant be also.

    Yer Right. Accuser should have been the word. 

    • #67
  8. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    No doubt about planting ideas in small children’s heads. I was a small child then, and I made it a rule I will not be left alone with anyone under 18. That rule has carried on into adulthood and into present day.

    All the Nieces, Nephews, Cousins, and then some born over the years no one asked Me to babysit, because They knew what the answer would be.

    I babysat two girls (5 and 12) one day a week for several months due to mandatory changes in the mother’s work schedule. I was always uncomfortable with it, but the mother was a great person, they were like family and liked helping out and doing it. But one day she reneged on something very important and said, “Why should I?” and I couldn’t trust her anymore. For me, it takes a whole lot of trust to babysit. And after that I stopped baby-sitting altogether.

    I think it’s prudent for adult males to avoid being alone with solitary young people who aren’t their own children. In the years I spent driving my kids to sporting events, school, etc., I always declined to bring a single child who wasn’t one of mine anywhere. In recent years I’ve relaxed that with very short trips involving the young cousins I tutor, and who see me almost daily, but that’s it.

    Which seems odd when statistically, most child abuse is committed by women, especially the mothers who have the most access.

    Well, this is the problem with all vague “abuse” accusations. I have no idea what abuse, spousal abuse, verbal abuse, physical abuse, child abuse, and sexual abuse, all actually mean when they’re sited.

    What kind of child abuse is committed predominantly by women?

    All kinds overall, although the physical violence may be less severe than when men do it even if men do it less often. For women/mothers I suppose neglect would make up most of it.

    When it’s mentioned, as in news reports and other allegations, rape and sexual abuse can be consensual sex between and a 17-year-old and an adult, or any sexual act on a 5-year-old.

    Physical abuse can be slapping a 15-year-old boy, or shaking a baby.

    Verbal and psychological abuse can mean just about anything.

    So saying that women commit most abuse is rather vague to me.

    • #68
  9. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    CACrabtree (View Comment):

    No doubt about that. It’s worth a quick read to go back and review the horrible daycare trials of the 80s and 90s. As it turned out, unscrupulous psychologists were planting ideas in small childrens’ heads and ambitious DA’s were only too happy to bring charges against the hapless daycare owners. Almost all of them had their convictions overturned but their lives were ruined.

    No doubt about planting ideas in small children’s heads. I was a small child then, and I made it a rule I will not be left alone with anyone under 18. That rule has carried on into adulthood and into present day.

    All the Nieces, Nephews, Cousins, and then some born over the years no one asked Me to babysit, because They knew what the answer would be.

    I babysat two girls (5 and 12) one day a week for several months due to mandatory changes in the mother’s work schedule. I was always uncomfortable with it, but the mother was a great person, they were like family and liked helping out and doing it. But one day she reneged on something very important and said, “Why should I?” and I couldn’t trust her anymore. For me, it takes a whole lot of trust to babysit. And after that I stopped baby-sitting altogether.

    I think it’s prudent for adult males to avoid being alone with solitary young people who aren’t their own children. In the years I spent driving my kids to sporting events, school, etc., I always declined to bring a single child who wasn’t one of mine anywhere. In recent years I’ve relaxed that with very short trips involving the young cousins I tutor, and who see me almost daily, but that’s it.

    Which seems odd when statistically, most child abuse is committed by women, especially the mothers who have the most access.

    Well, this is the problem with all vague “abuse” accusations. I have no idea what abuse, spousal abuse, verbal abuse, physical abuse, child abuse, and sexual abuse, all actually mean when they’re sited.

    What kind of child abuse is committed predominantly by women?

    No kidding. I’ve always heard the abuse is committed predominantly by the Mom’s boyfriend.

    Again, that’s probably the physical abuse. And it may be limited to parents who aren’t together, etc.

    Mothers would be more verbal abuse, emotional abuse, etc, and neglect including not feeding the children, neglect could also include allowing access by “boyfriends” etc…

    I think that this is just guessing now.  But when a news report says that a criminal previously served time for child abuse, it’s pretty up in the air what they mean.  Was it rape of a 5-year-old or beating a 16-year-old?

    • #69
  10. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I’ve relaxed that

    Not Me.

    So if I’m ever in court, then it would be unanimous, rock solid, from all the character and eye witnesses that I would never be alone with the defendant.

    But you’d be the defendant. You could be in solitary and there would the defendant be also.

    Yer Right. Accuser should have been the word.

    Yeah, I was just being pedantic.

    • #70
  11. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    No doubt about planting ideas in small children’s heads. I was a small child then, and I made it a rule I will not be left alone with anyone under 18. That rule has carried on into adulthood and into present day.

    All the Nieces, Nephews, Cousins, and then some born over the years no one asked Me to babysit, because They knew what the answer would be.

    I babysat two girls (5 and 12) one day a week for several months due to mandatory changes in the mother’s work schedule. I was always uncomfortable with it, but the mother was a great person, they were like family and liked helping out and doing it. But one day she reneged on something very important and said, “Why should I?” and I couldn’t trust her anymore. For me, it takes a whole lot of trust to babysit. And after that I stopped baby-sitting altogether.

    I think it’s prudent for adult males to avoid being alone with solitary young people who aren’t their own children. In the years I spent driving my kids to sporting events, school, etc., I always declined to bring a single child who wasn’t one of mine anywhere. In recent years I’ve relaxed that with very short trips involving the young cousins I tutor, and who see me almost daily, but that’s it.

    Which seems odd when statistically, most child abuse is committed by women, especially the mothers who have the most access.

    Well, this is the problem with all vague “abuse” accusations. I have no idea what abuse, spousal abuse, verbal abuse, physical abuse, child abuse, and sexual abuse, all actually mean when they’re sited.

    What kind of child abuse is committed predominantly by women?

    All kinds overall, although the physical violence may be less severe than when men do it even if men do it less often. For women/mothers I suppose neglect would make up most of it.

    When it’s mentioned, as in news reports and other allegations, rape and sexual abuse can be consensual sex between and a 17-year-old and an adult, or any sexual act on a 5-year-old.

    Physical abuse can be slapping a 15-year-old boy, or shaking a baby.

    Verbal and psychological abuse can mean just about anything.

    So saying that women commit most abuse is rather vague to me.

    There are a variety of distinctions.  Women are more likely to attempt suicide, but less likely to succeed.  Women are more likely to use some kind of weapon in domestic violence- even just a kitchen spatula or whatever – than men, because of having less direct strength.  Adults who were abused as children frequently say that the verbal abuse and neglect etc they got from their mothers, was actually harder on them – and more life-changing – than physical abuse they received from their father.  Are you going to be like women who never had kidney stones but still are certain that kidney stones hurt less than giving birth, and claim that children who endured both, don’t really know what they’re talking about?

    • #71
  12. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    No doubt about planting ideas in small children’s heads. I was a small child then, and I made it a rule I will not be left alone with anyone under 18. That rule has carried on into adulthood and into present day.

    All the Nieces, Nephews, Cousins, and then some born over the years no one asked Me to babysit, because They knew what the answer would be.

    I babysat two girls (5 and 12) one day a week for several months due to mandatory changes in the mother’s work schedule. I was always uncomfortable with it, but the mother was a great person, they were like family and liked helping out and doing it. But one day she reneged on something very important and said, “Why should I?” and I couldn’t trust her anymore. For me, it takes a whole lot of trust to babysit. And after that I stopped baby-sitting altogether.

    I think it’s prudent for adult males to avoid being alone with solitary young people who aren’t their own children. In the years I spent driving my kids to sporting events, school, etc., I always declined to bring a single child who wasn’t one of mine anywhere. In recent years I’ve relaxed that with very short trips involving the young cousins I tutor, and who see me almost daily, but that’s it.

    Which seems odd when statistically, most child abuse is committed by women, especially the mothers who have the most access.

    Well, this is the problem with all vague “abuse” accusations. I have no idea what abuse, spousal abuse, verbal abuse, physical abuse, child abuse, and sexual abuse, all actually mean when they’re sited.

    What kind of child abuse is committed predominantly by women?

    All kinds overall, although the physical violence may be less severe than when men do it even if men do it less often. For women/mothers I suppose neglect would make up most of it.

    When it’s mentioned, as in news reports and other allegations, rape and sexual abuse can be consensual sex between and a 17-year-old and an adult, or any sexual act on a 5-year-old.

    Physical abuse can be slapping a 15-year-old boy, or shaking a baby.

    Verbal and psychological abuse can mean just about anything.

    So saying that women commit most abuse is rather vague to me.

    I don’t have a citation, but I’ve heard that Lesbian  couples have way higher rates of domestic violence than others.

    • #72
  13. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    No doubt about planting ideas in small children’s heads. I was a small child then, and I made it a rule I will not be left alone with anyone under 18. That rule has carried on into adulthood and into present day.

    All the Nieces, Nephews, Cousins, and then some born over the years no one asked Me to babysit, because They knew what the answer would be.

    I babysat two girls (5 and 12) one day a week for several months due to mandatory changes in the mother’s work schedule. I was always uncomfortable with it, but the mother was a great person, they were like family and liked helping out and doing it. But one day she reneged on something very important and said, “Why should I?” and I couldn’t trust her anymore. For me, it takes a whole lot of trust to babysit. And after that I stopped baby-sitting altogether.

    I think it’s prudent for adult males to avoid being alone with solitary young people who aren’t their own children. In the years I spent driving my kids to sporting events, school, etc., I always declined to bring a single child who wasn’t one of mine anywhere. In recent years I’ve relaxed that with very short trips involving the young cousins I tutor, and who see me almost daily, but that’s it.

    Which seems odd when statistically, most child abuse is committed by women, especially the mothers who have the most access.

    Well, this is the problem with all vague “abuse” accusations. I have no idea what abuse, spousal abuse, verbal abuse, physical abuse, child abuse, and sexual abuse, all actually mean when they’re sited.

    What kind of child abuse is committed predominantly by women?

    All kinds overall, although the physical violence may be less severe than when men do it even if men do it less often. For women/mothers I suppose neglect would make up most of it.

    When it’s mentioned, as in news reports and other allegations, rape and sexual abuse can be consensual sex between and a 17-year-old and an adult, or any sexual act on a 5-year-old.

    Physical abuse can be slapping a 15-year-old boy, or shaking a baby.

    Verbal and psychological abuse can mean just about anything.

    So saying that women commit most abuse is rather vague to me.

    I don’t have a citation, but I’ve heard that Lesbian couples have way higher rates of domestic violence than others.

    Yes, and they’re more likely to use weapons, which can make the results more devastating.

    • #73
  14. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    I babysat two girls (5 and 12) one day a week for several months due to mandatory changes in the mother’s work schedule. I was always uncomfortable with it, but the mother was a great person, they were like family and liked helping out and doing it. But one day she reneged on something very important and said, “Why should I?” and I couldn’t trust her anymore. For me, it takes a whole lot of trust to babysit. And after that I stopped baby-sitting altogether.

    I think it’s prudent for adult males to avoid being alone with solitary young people who aren’t their own children. In the years I spent driving my kids to sporting events, school, etc., I always declined to bring a single child who wasn’t one of mine anywhere. In recent years I’ve relaxed that with very short trips involving the young cousins I tutor, and who see me almost daily, but that’s it.

    Which seems odd when statistically, most child abuse is committed by women, especially the mothers who have the most access.

    Well, this is the problem with all vague “abuse” accusations. I have no idea what abuse, spousal abuse, verbal abuse, physical abuse, child abuse, and sexual abuse, all actually mean when they’re sited.

    What kind of child abuse is committed predominantly by women?

    All kinds overall, although the physical violence may be less severe than when men do it even if men do it less often. For women/mothers I suppose neglect would make up most of it.

    When it’s mentioned, as in news reports and other allegations, rape and sexual abuse can be consensual sex between and a 17-year-old and an adult, or any sexual act on a 5-year-old.

    Physical abuse can be slapping a 15-year-old boy, or shaking a baby.

    Verbal and psychological abuse can mean just about anything.

    So saying that women commit most abuse is rather vague to me.

    There are a variety of distinctions. Women are more likely to attempt suicide, but less likely to succeed. Women are more likely to use some kind of weapon in domestic violence- even just a kitchen spatula or whatever – than men, because of having less direct strength. Adults who were abused as children frequently say that the verbal abuse and neglect etc they got from their mothers, was actually harder on them – and more life-changing – than physical abuse they received from their father. Are you going to be like women who never had kidney stones but still are certain that kidney stones hurt less than giving birth, and claim that children who endured both, don’t really know what they’re talking about?

    No, I’m only asking what kind of abuse do women commit more than men.

    • #74
  15. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    No doubt about planting ideas in small children’s heads. I was a small child then, and I made it a rule I will not be left alone with anyone under 18. That rule has carried on into adulthood and into present day.

    All the Nieces, Nephews, Cousins, and then some born over the years no one asked Me to babysit, because They knew what the answer would be.

    I babysat two girls (5 and 12) one day a week for several months due to mandatory changes in the mother’s work schedule. I was always uncomfortable with it, but the mother was a great person, they were like family and liked helping out and doing it. But one day she reneged on something very important and said, “Why should I?” and I couldn’t trust her anymore. For me, it takes a whole lot of trust to babysit. And after that I stopped baby-sitting altogether.

    I think it’s prudent for adult males to avoid being alone with solitary young people who aren’t their own children. In the years I spent driving my kids to sporting events, school, etc., I always declined to bring a single child who wasn’t one of mine anywhere. In recent years I’ve relaxed that with very short trips involving the young cousins I tutor, and who see me almost daily, but that’s it.

    Which seems odd when statistically, most child abuse is committed by women, especially the mothers who have the most access.

    Well, this is the problem with all vague “abuse” accusations. I have no idea what abuse, spousal abuse, verbal abuse, physical abuse, child abuse, and sexual abuse, all actually mean when they’re sited.

    What kind of child abuse is committed predominantly by women?

    All kinds overall, although the physical violence may be less severe than when men do it even if men do it less often. For women/mothers I suppose neglect would make up most of it.

    When it’s mentioned, as in news reports and other allegations, rape and sexual abuse can be consensual sex between and a 17-year-old and an adult, or any sexual act on a 5-year-old.

    Physical abuse can be slapping a 15-year-old boy, or shaking a baby.

    Verbal and psychological abuse can mean just about anything.

    So saying that women commit most abuse is rather vague to me.

    I don’t have a citation, but I’ve heard that Lesbian couples have way higher rates of domestic violence than others.

    Including child abuse?  What I’m asking kedavis is what kinds of abuse do women commit more than men.  As it stands it appears he means all types of abuse, but I doubt he really means that.

    • #75
  16. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    No doubt about planting ideas in small children’s heads. I was a small child then, and I made it a rule I will not be left alone with anyone under 18. That rule has carried on into adulthood and into present day.

    All the Nieces, Nephews, Cousins, and then some born over the years no one asked Me to babysit, because They knew what the answer would be.

    I babysat two girls (5 and 12) one day a week for several months due to mandatory changes in the mother’s work schedule. I was always uncomfortable with it, but the mother was a great person, they were like family and liked helping out and doing it. But one day she reneged on something very important and said, “Why should I?” and I couldn’t trust her anymore. For me, it takes a whole lot of trust to babysit. And after that I stopped baby-sitting altogether.

    I think it’s prudent for adult males to avoid being alone with solitary young people who aren’t their own children. In the years I spent driving my kids to sporting events, school, etc., I always declined to bring a single child who wasn’t one of mine anywhere. In recent years I’ve relaxed that with very short trips involving the young cousins I tutor, and who see me almost daily, but that’s it.

    Which seems odd when statistically, most child abuse is committed by women, especially the mothers who have the most access.

    Well, this is the problem with all vague “abuse” accusations. I have no idea what abuse, spousal abuse, verbal abuse, physical abuse, child abuse, and sexual abuse, all actually mean when they’re sited.

    What kind of child abuse is committed predominantly by women?

    All kinds overall, although the physical violence may be less severe than when men do it even if men do it less often. For women/mothers I suppose neglect would make up most of it.

    When it’s mentioned, as in news reports and other allegations, rape and sexual abuse can be consensual sex between and a 17-year-old and an adult, or any sexual act on a 5-year-old.

    Physical abuse can be slapping a 15-year-old boy, or shaking a baby.

    Verbal and psychological abuse can mean just about anything.

    So saying that women commit most abuse is rather vague to me.

    I don’t have a citation, but I’ve heard that Lesbian couples have way higher rates of domestic violence than others.

    Including child abuse? What I’m asking kedavis is what kinds of abuse do women commit more than men. As it stands it appears he means all types of abuse, but I doubt he really means that.

    Not necessarily more of each/all types, but more overall.  And even if women do most of the verbal/emotional/etc type, and men do most of the physical – which isn’t necessarily true, men just might do more damage each time but women account for more events – if you have abuse survivors telling you that verbal/emotional/etc was harder to deal with etc than physical, why would you disagree with them?  Or do you just not think it matters, or something?

    Another aspect of how mothers do most of the abuse is the commonality of fatherless homes, of course.

    • #76
  17. Quietpi Member
    Quietpi
    @Quietpi

    CACrabtree (View Comment):

    iWe (View Comment):

    I have seen what happens when accusations are made and a person loses all their friends in the world.

    I have multiple friends who were accused of molesting step-daughters. All were fully acquitted – the girls eventually admitted they just hated their step-dad, etc. But the pathway was HORRIBLE.

    I was accused of visiting one of them in prison. I felt terrible, because I had not done so. And should have.

    The blowback from the accusation sucks a person out of their soul.

    No doubt about that. It’s worth a quick read to go back and review the horrible daycare trials of the 80s and 90s. As it turned out, unscrupulous psychologists were planting ideas in small childrens’ heads and ambitious DA’s were only too happy to bring charges against the hapless daycare owners. Almost all of them had their convictions overturned but their lives were ruined.

    I had a case, and another situation involving a friend.  In the first, a soon-to-be ex-wife accused her husband of molesting their child.  On confrontation of the evidence, she admitted that she made it up, because her “attorney told me that it would help in the custody battle.”  Not that there aren’t unscrupulous attorneys, but I’ve worked with plenty, and I don’t believe this for a moment.  Of course, I wasn’t allowed to interview the attorney.  

    My friend was going through divorce when his wife made the same accusation.  The charge was shown to be untrue, and as I recall, he got custody of their children.  But the experience ruined him.  Job, house, pretty much everything.   

    Years ago I attended a seminar where the McMartin Preschool case was dissected.  It’s unconscionable that a bunch of psychologists, and a few DA’s aren’t to this day turning big rocks into small ones.  

    • #77
  18. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    CACrabtree (View Comment):

    iWe (View Comment):

    I have seen what happens when accusations are made and a person loses all their friends in the world.

    I have multiple friends who were accused of molesting step-daughters. All were fully acquitted – the girls eventually admitted they just hated their step-dad, etc. But the pathway was HORRIBLE.

    I was accused of visiting one of them in prison. I felt terrible, because I had not done so. And should have.

    The blowback from the accusation sucks a person out of their soul.

    No doubt about that. It’s worth a quick read to go back and review the horrible daycare trials of the 80s and 90s. As it turned out, unscrupulous psychologists were planting ideas in small childrens’ heads and ambitious DA’s were only too happy to bring charges against the hapless daycare owners. Almost all of them had their convictions overturned but their lives were ruined.

    No doubt about planting ideas in small children’s heads. I was a small child then, and I made it a rule I will not be left alone with anyone under 18. That rule has carried on into adulthood and into present day.

    All the Nieces, Nephews, Cousins, and then some born over the years no one asked Me to babysit, because They knew what the answer would be.

    I babysat two girls (5 and 12) one day a week for several months due to mandatory changes in the mother’s work schedule. I was always uncomfortable with it, but the mother was a great person, they were like family and liked helping out and doing it. But one day she reneged on something very important and said, “Why should I?” and I couldn’t trust her anymore. For me, it takes a whole lot of trust to babysit. And after that I stopped baby-sitting altogether.

    I think it’s prudent for adult males to avoid being alone with solitary young people who aren’t their own children. In the years I spent driving my kids to sporting events, school, etc., I always declined to bring a single child who wasn’t one of mine anywhere. In recent years I’ve relaxed that with very short trips involving the young cousins I tutor, and who see me almost daily, but that’s it.

    Yeah, it was uncomfortable, but I trusted the mother. Now I think about, and my wife supports, me mentoring a couple of boys of a woman we know. I think, and think, but I just don’t trust being alone with them. This also rules out any organized mentoring program. Isn’t that a god-awful shame? It wasn’t always like this.

    Everything like this limits the growth of human capital in this country. 

    • #78
  19. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    CACrabtree (View Comment):

    iWe (View Comment):

    I have seen what happens when accusations are made and a person loses all their friends in the world.

    I have multiple friends who were accused of molesting step-daughters. All were fully acquitted – the girls eventually admitted they just hated their step-dad, etc. But the pathway was HORRIBLE.

    I was accused of visiting one of them in prison. I felt terrible, because I had not done so. And should have.

    The blowback from the accusation sucks a person out of their soul.

    No doubt about that. It’s worth a quick read to go back and review the horrible daycare trials of the 80s and 90s. As it turned out, unscrupulous psychologists were planting ideas in small childrens’ heads and ambitious DA’s were only too happy to bring charges against the hapless daycare owners. Almost all of them had their convictions overturned but their lives were ruined.

    No doubt about planting ideas in small children’s heads. I was a small child then, and I made it a rule I will not be left alone with anyone under 18. That rule has carried on into adulthood and into present day.

    All the Nieces, Nephews, Cousins, and then some born over the years no one asked Me to babysit, because They knew what the answer would be.

    I babysat two girls (5 and 12) one day a week for several months due to mandatory changes in the mother’s work schedule. I was always uncomfortable with it, but the mother was a great person, they were like family and liked helping out and doing it. But one day she reneged on something very important and said, “Why should I?” and I couldn’t trust her anymore. For me, it takes a whole lot of trust to babysit. And after that I stopped baby-sitting altogether.

    I think it’s prudent for adult males to avoid being alone with solitary young people who aren’t their own children. In the years I spent driving my kids to sporting events, school, etc., I always declined to bring a single child who wasn’t one of mine anywhere. In recent years I’ve relaxed that with very short trips involving the young cousins I tutor, and who see me almost daily, but that’s it.

    Yeah, it was uncomfortable, but I trusted the mother. Now I think about, and my wife supports, me mentoring a couple of boys of a woman we know. I think, and think, but I just don’t trust being alone with them. This also rules out any organized mentoring program. Isn’t that a god-awful shame? It wasn’t always like this.

    Everything like this limits the growth of human capital in this country.

    And acculturalization and personal growth. 

    • #79
  20. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Yeah, it was uncomfortable, but I trusted the mother. Now I think about, and my wife supports, me mentoring a couple of boys of a woman we know. I think, and think, but I just don’t trust being alone with them. This also rules out any organized mentoring program. Isn’t that a god-awful shame? It wasn’t always like this.

    Everything like this limits the growth of human capital in this country.

    And acculturalization and personal growth. 

    How will The State get enough W-2 slaves?

    • #80
  21. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Yeah, it was uncomfortable, but I trusted the mother. Now I think about, and my wife supports, me mentoring a couple of boys of a woman we know. I think, and think, but I just don’t trust being alone with them. This also rules out any organized mentoring program. Isn’t that a god-awful shame? It wasn’t always like this.

    Everything like this limits the growth of human capital in this country.

    And acculturalization and personal growth.

    How will The State get enough W-2 slaves?

    I never got used to Personnel Department being changed to Human Chattel  Minerals and Mining  Resources.

    • #81
  22. Columbo Inactive
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    No doubt about planting ideas in small children’s heads. I was a small child then, and I made it a rule I will not be left alone with anyone under 18. That rule has carried on into adulthood and into present day.

    All the Nieces, Nephews, Cousins, and then some born over the years no one asked Me to babysit, because They knew what the answer would be.

    I babysat two girls (5 and 12) one day a week for several months due to mandatory changes in the mother’s work schedule. I was always uncomfortable with it, but the mother was a great person, they were like family and liked helping out and doing it. But one day she reneged on something very important and said, “Why should I?” and I couldn’t trust her anymore. For me, it takes a whole lot of trust to babysit. And after that I stopped baby-sitting altogether.

    I think it’s prudent for adult males to avoid being alone with solitary young people who aren’t their own children. In the years I spent driving my kids to sporting events, school, etc., I always declined to bring a single child who wasn’t one of mine anywhere. In recent years I’ve relaxed that with very short trips involving the young cousins I tutor, and who see me almost daily, but that’s it.

    Which seems odd when statistically, most child abuse is committed by women, especially the mothers who have the most access.

    Well, this is the problem with all vague “abuse” accusations. I have no idea what abuse, spousal abuse, verbal abuse, physical abuse, child abuse, and sexual abuse, all actually mean when they’re sited.

    What kind of child abuse is committed predominantly by women?

    All kinds overall, although the physical violence may be less severe than when men do it even if men do it less often. For women/mothers I suppose neglect would make up most of it.

    When it’s mentioned, as in news reports and other allegations, rape and sexual abuse can be consensual sex between and a 17-year-old and an adult, or any sexual act on a 5-year-old.

    Physical abuse can be slapping a 15-year-old boy, or shaking a baby.

    Verbal and psychological abuse can mean just about anything.

    So saying that women commit most abuse is rather vague to me.

    I don’t have a citation, but I’ve heard that Lesbian couples have way higher rates of domestic violence than others.

    A battle about who is the greater victim generates great anger and emotion. And a cat fight!

    • #82
  23. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Columbo (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jimmy Carter (View Comment):

    No doubt about planting ideas in small children’s heads. I was a small child then, and I made it a rule I will not be left alone with anyone under 18. That rule has carried on into adulthood and into present day.

    All the Nieces, Nephews, Cousins, and then some born over the years no one asked Me to babysit, because They knew what the answer would be.

    I babysat two girls (5 and 12) one day a week for several months due to mandatory changes in the mother’s work schedule. I was always uncomfortable with it, but the mother was a great person, they were like family and liked helping out and doing it. But one day she reneged on something very important and said, “Why should I?” and I couldn’t trust her anymore. For me, it takes a whole lot of trust to babysit. And after that I stopped baby-sitting altogether.

    I think it’s prudent for adult males to avoid being alone with solitary young people who aren’t their own children. In the years I spent driving my kids to sporting events, school, etc., I always declined to bring a single child who wasn’t one of mine anywhere. In recent years I’ve relaxed that with very short trips involving the young cousins I tutor, and who see me almost daily, but that’s it.

    Which seems odd when statistically, most child abuse is committed by women, especially the mothers who have the most access.

    Well, this is the problem with all vague “abuse” accusations. I have no idea what abuse, spousal abuse, verbal abuse, physical abuse, child abuse, and sexual abuse, all actually mean when they’re sited.

    What kind of child abuse is committed predominantly by women?

    All kinds overall, although the physical violence may be less severe than when men do it even if men do it less often. For women/mothers I suppose neglect would make up most of it.

    When it’s mentioned, as in news reports and other allegations, rape and sexual abuse can be consensual sex between and a 17-year-old and an adult, or any sexual act on a 5-year-old.

    Physical abuse can be slapping a 15-year-old boy, or shaking a baby.

    Verbal and psychological abuse can mean just about anything.

    So saying that women commit most abuse is rather vague to me.

    I don’t have a citation, but I’ve heard that Lesbian couples have way higher rates of domestic violence than others.

    A battle about who is the greater victim generates great anger and emotion. And a cat fight!

    I’ve read that it’s because women have different attitudes about “fidelity” etc which clash more with other women.

    • #83
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.