President Trump’s High Noon

 

The terms of the President and the Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January…
— US Constitution, Twentieth Amendment, Section 1

At noon on January 20, 2021, President Trump ceased being President of the United States. At 11:59:59 am Eastern Time, he remained the Chief Executive with full constitutional powers. Timing is everything.

Why do I raise this? Because the pretext for the raid on Mar-a-Lago is that President Trump committed a crime by removing classified documents from the White House, by failing to comply with the requirements for securing and storing such documents consistent with their classification levels, and did so in violation of the Espionage Act.

Seeking search warrants are an ex parte process. That is, only the government representatives meet with a judge and set forth the probable cause that a crime has been committed and that the requested search will produce evidence of the crime. As an investigative matter, this makes sense. Why would you alert the target of the search? The weakness of the process is that it is left up to the judge to consider all the arguments that the target might raise. Even a dispassionate and dedicated judge might not think of everything a target might legitimately argue, and that is why ex parte proceedings are not generally favored in the law.

An important question that President Trump’s attorneys would raise (totally aside from whether a warrant was necessary to obtain access to the documents) was whether those documents are in fact classified? Except for Nuclear Weapons information (which I will discuss in a moment), any government document that is to be restricted from public view is controlled under rules issued by the President. Therefore the President has latitude to treat any document as classified or not so long as that individual is President.

But, you say, those documents have classification markings! Yes, they may, but the markings are intended to alert possessors of their sensitivity and limit the conduct of all executive personnel who report to the President; the markings do not limit the authority of the President. Yes, a declassification normally involves striking through the marking and is initialed by the person authorized by the President to remove the classification markings, but the markings do not control the President. Nor does the failure to remove markings from a declassified document mean that it remains classified if the President has declassified it — it simply means that appropriate measures should be taken to treat it as classified until the markings are removed and its status is clear. This may seem like a distinction without a difference, but its not. For example, it is prudent to treat every gun as if it is loaded until it is demonstrated to not be loaded. But if it is a crime to possess a loaded weapon, then treating it as loaded does not mean a crime has been committed — it must be demonstrated that the gun was in fact loaded at the time of possession.

But, you say, the President failed to follow the procedures to declassify a document! I respond, what procedures? The ones the put in place under the authority of the President? No court has ever ruled that in a matter over which the President has full plenary powers is he/she personally bound to comply with orders that apply to subordinates. A President’s action may be imprudent or inadvisable, but it is not illegal.

So the important question for this kerfuffle is what did President Trump do regarding these documents before noon on January 20, 2021? If he directed they be boxed up and removed from the White House security, he had the authority to do so. Does anyone believe that these documents were still in the White House at noon? The classification nature of the documents is a different question than who owns it and whether they were supposed to be under the control of the National Archives. But that ownership dispute does not involve a crime, and it is not an unusual one with respect to Presidents leaving office and setting up Presidential libraries.

Isn’t it interesting that the nuclear weapons talk didn’t make the rounds of the media until after the general declassification authority had already been broadcast by defenders of President Tump? And why was that? Because certain nuclear weapons information is classified by statute and not under the authority of the President. But what information is that? It is

all data concerning (1) design, manufacture, or utilization of atomic weapons; (2) the production of special nuclear material; or (3) the use of special nuclear material in the production of energy, but shall not include data declassified or removed from the Restricted Data category pursuant to section 142 [of the Act].[1]

In general terms, it is information that enables someone to make a working atomic weapon. Information needed by the military to use an atomic weapon is “Fomerly Restricted Data”. It is referred to as “formerly” because the first Atomic Energy Act passed in 1946 restricted almost all information about atomic bombs to people working in the Atomic Energy Commission (now the Department of Energy). In 1954 the law was amended to enable the military to know more about nuclear weapons to facilitate planning for new designs that utilized a variety of delivery systems — bombs, missiles, torpedoes, depth charges, artillery. The line between Restricted Data (RD) and Formerly Restricted Date (FRD) can get blurred. If the Department of Energy and the Department of Defense has a dispute over whether certain data is RD or FRD, then the President makes the determination. And if the President makes determines that it is FRD, then the data falls under his general authority to classify or declassify. RD and FRD are not classifications in themselves — classification is based on the level of harm that the United States could suffer from its disclosure to an enemy. The release of RD has a presumptive harm as determined by Congress; the release of FRD and other government classified data is in the discretion of the President.

President Trump was free to make decisions and act until noon on January 20, 2021. The documents were presumptively removed from the White House before then. Are there some documents that the President did not intend to have removed? If so, the President does not have the required intent for a criminal act. Were there documents that did not involve RD that the President intended be removed for future public disclosure ? Then they were de facto declassified upon removal if not earlier, and that disclosure is not criminal unless, per the Espionage Act, there is a

It is evidence that some parts of this country are far, far down the rabbit hole when it comes to President Trump that the (Democrat) Department of Justice would assert to a federal magistrate judge that there was probable cause for a violation of the Espionage Act, and that a federal magistrate judge, obligated as he is in an ex parte proceeding to consider what legal defenses a target might have if they were permitted to make an argument to him, that a search warrant was granted.

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  1. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    For certain national defense related documents, apparently just willfully retaining them could violate the Espionage Act, even if you originally possessed them lawfully.

    People are going to speculate on both sides, no stopping that, but unless he’s indicted, or some other litigation ensues which would cause the affidavit in support of the warrant to be made public, or some accurate info is leaked, it may be a long long time before the full story is known.

    If you want to know the truth about this, quit/avoid smoking, exercise and eat a balanced diet, do all the screenings your doctor recommends, wear your seatbelt, etc.. It may be awhile.

    No one’s saying any longer that the documents contained national defense (nuclear production) information.

    But anyway, the argument has been changed by the government once again. This no longer has anything to do with classified documents but espionage and someone’s idea of obstruction of justice.

    I may have missed it but I wasn’t aware the government was making any arguments beyond Garland’s statement. There’s no need for them to argue anything at this point, beyond the legitimacy of the search.

    The legacy Press represents the government.  And it was expressing sequentially that sources familiar with the affidavit (that would be in the government — not Trump) were saying Trump’s crime was that it’s stolen, it’s classified, it’s nuclear, and then it’s espionage.

    • #31
  2. D.A. Venters Inactive
    D.A. Venters
    @DAVenters

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    The classification issue does not appear to me to be relevant as to two of the statutes (see below) charged in the warrant. Not sure about the third, the so-called Espionage Act, but it seem relevant.

    18 USC 1519

    Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

    18 USC 2071

    (a)Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.(b)Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States. As used in this subsection, the term “office” does not include the office held by any person as a retired officer of the Armed Forces of the United States.

    A little vague, isn’t it? And yet it would conveniently preclude Trump from holding office.

    A little vague, but mostly very broad. Broad enough that a person of ordinary moral sense could arguably violate it without any of those conscience alarm bells going off. Statutes like that may be necessary, but they require a lot of discretion for prosecutors and judges to take mitigating factors into account.

    The funny thing is that one of the driving motivations behind these statutes (though not so much the espionage one), is anti-corruption, transparency, making sure the swamp creatures can’t hide their corrupt dealings, or at least get punished for doing so.  So, if you’re pro swamp draining, worried about the deep state, etc, you may want to keep these statutes broad, even if they occasionally snag one of your guys.

    • #32
  3. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    cdor (View Comment):

    Rodin (View Comment):

    Fair enough. But also note that it has to be with intent to impede and/or willfully and unlawfully… etc etc. What did President Trump know about an investigation on January 20? How relevant would someone reasonably anticipate a document might be to some imagined investigation? This is so much Monday morning quarterbacking and mind reading even if the investigation were legitimate, which is not a foregone conclusion any more than the Mueller investigation was. If you take Jan 6 out of the picture and what the President would have to speculate about it and how a legitimate investigation would be conducted, this removal debate does not seem particularly extraordinary in the context of Presidents taking documents for their libraries.

    It is my understanding that POTUS is the single ultimate source and authority of classification. As such, he can de-classify any document in any way he chooses. He could write a book, make a speech, write a letter, or simply say it…”I de-classify this…” and it is done. There are no rules that stipulate acceptable or non-acceptable procedures. Do you understand this is NOT the case @ hoyacon?

    They also act like Mara Lago isn’t equipped for classified. Holy moly stupidity. Trump had tell classified functionality as President when he chose to be there. He has a clearance still.

    Yeah, you’re right. Didn’t he have a SCIF installed?

    I would assume they had a secure area for documents and comm.

    Heck, when generals retire and become graybeards, some need access to classified. All they need is a certain safe, certain paperwork, and certain protocols. Every security clearance is maintained by an agency. I had one that could go all the way up to TS/SCI, if necessary. A company asked me if I would work for them and would it be ok for my clearance to be held by their agency when I retired. I thanked them and turned down their very generous salary offer and told them not to invest in my clearance. I intended to walk away and be a mom. They called me a year later and I again said “no.” I enjoyed my next 18 years in adult education despite the $50,000 pay cut. My kids needed me and I always could afford what we needed.

    Marjorie Merriweather Post had three bunkers installed during the Korean war.  As I recall, Trump had them restored for peace of mind of his governmental guests.  And I thought I read someplace that one was turned into a SCIF.  Either way I’m sure there’s one located there.

    • #33
  4. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    The classification issue does not appear to me to be relevant as to two of the statutes (see below) charged in the warrant. Not sure about the third, the so-called Espionage Act, but it seem relevant.

    18 USC 1519

    Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

    18 USC 2071

    (a)Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.(b)Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States. As used in this subsection, the term “office” does not include the office held by any person as a retired officer of the Armed Forces of the United States.

    A little vague, isn’t it? And yet it would conveniently preclude Trump from holding office.

    A little vague, but mostly very broad. Broad enough that a person of ordinary moral sense could arguably violate it without any of those conscience alarm bells going off. Statutes like that may be necessary, but they require a lot of discretion for prosecutors and judges to take mitigating factors into account.

    The funny thing is that one of the driving motivations behind these statutes (though not so much the espionage one), is anti-corruption, transparency, making sure the swamp creatures can’t hide their corrupt dealings, or at least get punished for doing so. So, if your pro swamp draining, worried about the deep state, etc, you may want to keep these statutes broad, even if they occasionally snag one of your guys.

    You really have faith in modern American jurisprudence.

    • #34
  5. DonG (CAGW is a Scam) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Scam)
    @DonG

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    Can’t create indictments and then let them sit. Once an indictment is handed down, there will either be a trial, a guilty plea, or a dismissal. Speedy trial statutes guide that process and how the time is counted. The only way an indictment can sit untried is if the Defendant absconds. 

    That’s not to say it’s not a long process sometimes, but that is most often due to extensions of time requested, or otherwise caused by, the defendant.  Again, there are specific statutes that guide that process and how to count the days the government has to bring the case to trial.

    “Can’t” in this context means unconstitutional.   Yet, the J6 prisoners are going on 18 months waiting for a trial (without bail), when 4 months is typical.   In D.C. they courts can do as they please and Constitution be damned.

    • #35
  6. DonG (CAGW is a Scam) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Scam)
    @DonG

    [picture moved to another thread]

    • #36
  7. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a Scam) (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):
    People are going to speculate on both sides, no stopping that, but unless he’s indicted

    First, indictments are trivial to get and can be timed (weaponized) by the Dems. Second, I heard that discovery only happens in the trial phase. The Dems might create indictments without ever having a trial. This is lawfare not justice so many outcomes are possible.

    Then we must run Trump and force their hand. They will not stop until they destroy him then they will move on to the next guy, make them expose themselves and all the left wing crazies.

    Ding ding ding.  It’s not about him — it’s about us.

    • #37
  8. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    For certain national defense related documents, apparently just willfully retaining them could violate the Espionage Act, even if you originally possessed them lawfully.

    People are going to speculate on both sides, no stopping that, but unless he’s indicted, or some other litigation ensues which would cause the affidavit in support of the warrant to be made public, or some accurate info is leaked, it may be a long long time before the full story is known.

    If you want to know the truth about this, quit/avoid smoking, exercise and eat a balanced diet, do all the screenings your doctor recommends, wear your seatbelt, etc.. It may be awhile.

    More likely to find the truth on the other side of heaven.

    • #38
  9. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    A Yonex head if they picked up files with attorney privilege.

    • #39
  10. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    There was a great episode on Viva & Barnes tonight discussing the Raid and how badly the warrant falls short of constitutional, DOJ, and FBI requirements. A lot of insight in the shenanigans that took place in the obtaining of the warrant and the magistrates’s approval. A very worthwhile watch. 

    • #40
  11. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    But anyway, the argument has been changed by the government once again.

    They really are casting about for a believable excuse.

    I told you I would believe the nuclear documents story until Tuesday or whenever they come up with a better story.

    • #41
  12. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    For certain national defense related documents, apparently just willfully retaining them could violate the Espionage Act, even if you originally possessed them lawfully.

    People are going to speculate on both sides, no stopping that, but unless he’s indicted, or some other litigation ensues which would cause the affidavit in support of the warrant to be made public, or some accurate info is leaked, it may be a long long time before the full story is known.

    If you want to know the truth about this, quit/avoid smoking, exercise and eat a balanced diet, do all the screenings your doctor recommends, wear your seatbelt, etc.. It may be awhile.

    No one’s saying any longer that the documents contained national defense (nuclear production) information.

    But anyway, the argument has been changed by the government once again. This no longer has anything to do with classified documents but espionage and someone’s idea of obstruction of justice.

    I may have missed it but I wasn’t aware the government was making any arguments beyond Garland’s statement. There’s no need for them to argue anything at this point, beyond the legitimacy of the search.

    You get those arguments from the NY Times or Washington Post. It amounts to the same thing as government arguments, with the advantage that if the government party wants to, it can pretend those arguments didn’t come from the government. 

    • #42
  13. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    There is no authority for this. Trump’s power as Chief Executive come from the Constitution. Congress can’t infringe on that power with statutes. I’m referring to any statute aging to control his documents.

    Trump can declassify documents as he pleased. He was the ultimate authority. The rules they refer to are executive orders that apply to the people under the President. DOJ and FBI are trying to assume power as their own branch.

    No doubt they have nothing and were desperate for something. As hate -crazed, arrogant SOBs, they believed their own lies that Trump is corrupt and therefore believed they would find something.

    • #43
  14. Clifford A. Brown Member
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    DonG (CAGW is a Scam) (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    A little vague, isn’t it? And yet it would conveniently preclude Trump from holding office.

    Courts have ruled that only the Constitutional qualifications are applicable. Congress cannot write a law to add qualifications on the Executive Branch (or any branch).

    Yes, but if the candidate is in prison or restricted in movement by a federal or state judge in the course of a criminal case, then that candidate is effectively rendered non-competitive.

    • #44
  15. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a Scam) (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    A little vague, isn’t it? And yet it would conveniently preclude Trump from holding office.

    Courts have ruled that only the Constitutional qualifications are applicable. Congress cannot write a law to add qualifications on the Executive Branch (or any branch).

    Yes, but if the candidate is in prison or restricted in movement by a federal or state judge in the course of a criminal case, then that candidate is effectively rendered non-competitive.

    Not in a third-world country.  :)

    • #45
  16. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    cdor (View Comment):

    Rodin (View Comment):

    Fair enough. But also note that it has to be with intent to impede and/or willfully and unlawfully… etc etc. What did President Trump know about an investigation on January 20? How relevant would someone reasonably anticipate a document might be to some imagined investigation? This is so much Monday morning quarterbacking and mind reading even if the investigation were legitimate, which is not a foregone conclusion any more than the Mueller investigation was. If you take Jan 6 out of the picture and what the President would have to speculate about it and how a legitimate investigation would be conducted, this removal debate does not seem particularly extraordinary in the context of Presidents taking documents for their libraries.

    It is my understanding that POTUS is the single ultimate source and authority of classification. As such, he can de-classify any document in any way he chooses. He could write a book, make a speech, write a letter, or simply say it…”I de-classify this…” and it is done. There are no rules that stipulate acceptable or non-acceptable procedures. Do you understand this is NOT the case @ hoyacon?

    They also act like Mara Lago isn’t equipped for classified. Holy moly stupidity. Trump had tell classified functionality as President when he chose to be there. He has a clearance still.

    Yeah, you’re right. Didn’t he have a SCIF installed?

    Assume he was capable of doing his duties wherever he went, and especially at his residence.

    • #46
  17. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a Scam) (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):
    People are going to speculate on both sides, no stopping that, but unless he’s indicted

    First, indictments are trivial to get and can be timed (weaponized) by the Dems. Second, I heard that discovery only happens in the trial phase. The Dems might create indictments without ever having a trial. This is lawfare not justice so many outcomes are possible.

    Can’t create indictments and then let them sit. Once an indictment is handed down, there will either be a trial, a guilty plea, or a dismissal. Speedy trial statutes guide that process and how the time is counted. The only way an indictment can sit untried is if the Defendant absconds.

    That’s not to say it’s not a long process sometimes, but that is most often due to extensions of time requested, or otherwise caused by, the defendant. Again, there are specific statutes that guide that process and how to count the days the government has to bring the case to trial.

    National Review would have liked that when Mann sued.

    • #47
  18. D.A. Venters Inactive
    D.A. Venters
    @DAVenters

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a Scam) (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):
    People are going to speculate on both sides, no stopping that, but unless he’s indicted

    First, indictments are trivial to get and can be timed (weaponized) by the Dems. Second, I heard that discovery only happens in the trial phase. The Dems might create indictments without ever having a trial. This is lawfare not justice so many outcomes are possible.

    Can’t create indictments and then let them sit. Once an indictment is handed down, there will either be a trial, a guilty plea, or a dismissal. Speedy trial statutes guide that process and how the time is counted. The only way an indictment can sit untried is if the Defendant absconds.

    That’s not to say it’s not a long process sometimes, but that is most often due to extensions of time requested, or otherwise caused by, the defendant. Again, there are specific statutes that guide that process and how to count the days the government has to bring the case to trial.

    National Review would have liked that when Mann sued.

    Yes, civil cases don’t have the same speedy trial guarantees, so they can drag on for quite a while.  The criminal docket has priority in scheduling.

    • #48
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