Polio Is Back

 

Polio is back, despite being nearly eradicated since a safe effective vaccine was developed in the 1950s and been given to school children ever since.

New York state health officials have found indications of additional cases of polio virus in wastewater samples from two different counties, leading them to warn that hundreds of people may be infected with the potentially serious virus.

Just two weeks ago, the New York Health Department reported the nation’s first case of polio in almost a decade, in Rockland County, north of New York City. Officials said that case occurred in a previously healthy young adult who was unvaccinated and developed paralysis in their legs. Since then, three positive wastewater samples from Rockland County and four from neighboring Orange County were discovered and genetically linked to the first case, the health department said in a press release on Thursday, suggesting that the polio virus is being spread within local communities. The newest samples were taken from two locations in Orange County in June and July and one location in Rockland County in July.

“Based on earlier polio outbreaks, New Yorkers should know that for every one case of paralytic polio observed, there may be hundreds of other people infected,” State Health Commissioner Dr. Mary T. Bassett said. “Coupled with the latest wastewater findings, the Department is treating the single case of polio as just the tip of the iceberg of much greater potential spread. As we learn more, what we do know is clear: the danger of polio is present in New York today.”

I don’t object to vaccines, I objected to the Covid vaccine. Most vaccines have a long track record of safe use, and are actually effective. The Covid vaccine was rushed through development, with minimal clinical trials. The data from those trials is still being withheld from publication.

I think it’s reasonable to question the safety of the Covid “vaccine” — the effectiveness is certainly not in doubt. It’s clearly ineffective — it does not prevent the spread of the illness or the infection.  Perhaps “Preventative therapeutic” is a better description for it instead of “vaccine.”

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  1. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    Flicker (View Comment):
    The milkmaids didn’t get smallpox.  That was the greatness of vaccination.  To say that a vaccine merely lessens the effects of infection goes against the historical understanding and purpose of vaccination.

    Exactly!! If you get a measles vaccination you would expect not to get sick at all if exposed to the measles.

    The fact that the covid vaccination does not protect the vaccinated from infection means that the vaccine is ineffective. And being ineffective why is it still mandatory? That’s anti-science right there…

    • #31
  2. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Flicker (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Come on guys. Stop splitting hairs about what a vaccine does or doesn’t do, or should do but doesn’t need to. There is a common understanding about vaccines and the results from the NIH:

    History of Smallpox | Smallpox | CDCcdc.gov› smallpox › history › history.html

    February 20, 2021 – The basis for vaccination began in 1796 when the English doctor Edward Jenner noticed that milkmaids who had gotten cowpox were protected from smallpox. Jenner also knew about variolation and guessed that exposure to cowpox could be used to protect against smallpox.

    ***

    The milkmaids didn’t get smallpox. That was the greatness of vaccination. To say that a vaccine merely lessens the effects of infection goes against the historical understanding and purpose of vaccination.

    You neglected to provide a basis for making that last statement. Maybe you were typing too fast and forgot?

    Which words exactly? You didn’t specify. Maybe you forgot?

    The last sentence. 

    By the way, did you notice that that CDC timeline didn’t provide any data on Jenner’s experiments:  What percent of vaccinated people didn’t get serious smallpox, what percent got only mild smallpox, what percent didn’t get smallpox at all, etc?   Jenner was a really smart guy and did a lot of careful observations. I suppose a historical timeline can’t be expected to go into those details, though.  

    • #32
  3. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    By the way, did you notice that that CDC timeline didn’t provide any data on Jenner’s experiments:  What percent of vaccinated people didn’t get serious smallpox, what percent got only mild smallpox, what percent didn’t get smallpox at all, etc?   Jenner was a really smart guy and did a lot of careful observations. I suppose a historical timeline can’t be expected to go into those details, though

    According to Wikipedia Small Pox “Ordinary type-confluent is fatal about 50–75% of the time” that doesnt seem like there are minor cases of Small Pox. Kinda sounds like a minor cancer diagnosis.

    • #33
  4. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    The milkmaids didn’t get smallpox. That was the greatness of vaccination. To say that a vaccine merely lessens the effects of infection goes against the historical understanding and purpose of vaccination.

    Exactly!! If you get a measles vaccination you would expect not to get sick at all if exposed to the measles.

    A quick google shows that one dose of the current MMR vaccine is about 93 percent effective against measles, and two doses are about 97 percent effective. 

    So a child who gets a measles vaccination might still get measles, but the chances are pretty good that he won’t.  Every vaccine is different that way.  A person has to weigh the benefits against the risks. 

    The fact that the covid vaccination does not protect the vaccinated from infection means that the vaccine is ineffective.

    But the covid vaccination does protect the vaccinated from infection.  So it’s effective. 

    Of course, just like you, I’m leaving out some definitions.  I’m not specifying what endpoint I consider successful.  The pharma companies that submitted results for FDA approval had to specify what endpoints they were looking at:  serious covid requiring covid, no covid infection at all, etc.  Different pharmaceutical companies did it differently, and the FDA then evaluated the results accordingly.   There was no simple, cut-and-dried endpoint as some internet pundits who don’t bother doing simple internet searches would have you believe. 

    And being ineffective why is it still mandatory? That’s anti-science right there…

    It’s political, not science.  Whether it’s mandated shouldn’t depend solely on the degree of effectiveness. It can’t be solely “scientific,” neither in theory nor in practice.  The benefits also need to be weighed against harms, and against political values.    Those societies that place a high value on individual freedom will be more reluctant to institute mandates even for moderately effective vaccines.  

    • #34
  5. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    By the way, did you notice that that CDC timeline didn’t provide any data on Jenner’s experiments: What percent of vaccinated people didn’t get serious smallpox, what percent got only mild smallpox, what percent didn’t get smallpox at all, etc? Jenner was a really smart guy and did a lot of careful observations. I suppose a historical timeline can’t be expected to go into those details, though

    According to Wikipedia Small Pox “Ordinary type-confluent is fatal about 50–75% of the time” that doesnt seem like there are minor cases of Small Pox. Kinda sounds like a minor cancer diagnosis.

    Then what do you call the 25-50% of cases that aren’t fatal?   You can’t say from those data that there are no minor smallpox cases.  There’s probably a wide range of non-fatal cases.  

    And yes, there are cancer diagnoses that are less serious than others.  

    I’m not sure what causes the internet mania for binary  definitions about this.  

     

    • #35
  6. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    A quick google shows that one dose of the current MMR vaccine is about 93 percent effective against measles, and two doses are about 97 percent effective. 

    So a child who gets a measles vaccination might still get measles, but the chances are pretty good that he won’t.  Every vaccine is different that way.  A person has to weigh the benefits against the risks. 

    A 90% effective rate is a dependable product. No manufactured product is perfect. I’d take 97% effective any day of the week. In poker terms, that’s a set of aces vs pocket kings. I’ll take the aces all day long.

    It’s political, not science. Whether it’s mandated shouldn’t depend solely on the degree of effectiveness. It can’t be solely “scientific,” neither in theory nor in practice. The benefits also need to be weighed against harms, and against political values.

    Yes. The effectiveness should be a factor in determining if something is mandatory or not. If motorcycle helmets were made of leather and paper mache they should not be mandatory. Because it would be ineffective and not worth the inconvenience of using them.  But a motor cycle helmet made of carbon fiber? Yes.

    Its difficult for anyone to judge the downside of using a covid vaccination, because the data from the clinical studies will not be released in our lifetimes… Or to accurately judge any aspect of the risk factors involved because trustworthy data on the topic is not available to the public…

     

    • #36
  7. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):
    Its difficult for anyone to judge the downside of using a covid vaccination, because the data from the clinical studies will not be released in our lifetimes… Or to accurately judge any aspect of the risk factors involved because trustworthy data on the topic is not available to the public…

    I wonder if any of that is true.

    • #37
  8. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    By the way, did you notice that that CDC timeline didn’t provide any data on Jenner’s experiments: What percent of vaccinated people didn’t get serious smallpox, what percent got only mild smallpox, what percent didn’t get smallpox at all, etc? Jenner was a really smart guy and did a lot of careful observations. I suppose a historical timeline can’t be expected to go into those details, though

    According to Wikipedia Small Pox “Ordinary type-confluent is fatal about 50–75% of the time” that doesnt seem like there are minor cases of Small Pox. Kinda sounds like a minor cancer diagnosis.

    Then what do you call the 25-50% of cases that aren’t fatal? You can’t say from those data that there are no minor smallpox cases. There’s probably a wide range of non-fatal cases.

    And yes, there are cancer diagnoses that are less serious than others.

    I’m not sure what causes the internet mania for binary definitions about this.

    I’d call that a brush with death. A coin flip on weather I live or die? That’s far more serious than a heart attack.

    Its not like the movies – James Bond in the Casino Royale (remake) uses a defibrillator to restart his heart – then gets up and walks across the street to rejoin a poker game in the casino… In real life, anyone who needed a defibrillator to restart his heart would need weeks before they where able to walk across the street again…

    • #38
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