Batteries for Large Stores of Power Just Don’t Work

 

I am just going to say it:

Batteries are one of the most inferior ways to store large amounts of energy that we have. The best stores of energy are hydrocarbons. A gallon of gas is lighter than batteries for the power it holds. It is easier to transport than batteries are. It is less toxic to the environment when burned than to dispose of Lithium batteries. It is far easier to “Recharge” a car with this store of energy. And finally, the energy for batteries almost all comes from transfer of hydrocarbon energy into the battery, which means it is even more energy intensive to move around.

Granted, you can transmit power through existing infrastructure and gas has to be put in a truck, and that truck burns hydrocarbons to move hydrocarbons. But, batteries won’t give you power when off the grid, and trying to use solar to give you adequate power in most cases is not going to work. Hydrocarbons bring you power on the spot, anywhere, anytime.

Batteries for large stores of power just don’t work.

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  1. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    EDIT

    Public service announcement. Keeping a box of handwarmers in reserve for such a thing is insanely *inexpensive. One box will go a long way and not being miserable for a long time.

     

    Also get a Patagonia NanoPuff pullover.

    • #61
  2. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Stad (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):
    nuke and coal

    One of the things that I learned recently from the Texas deal that is sort of obvious is, the logistics of nuke and coal are way easier. You just keep a stockpile at the plant.

    Natural gas has advantages as mentioned above, but it’s a big, complicated logistical system. They didn’t have the pipes buried low enough into the ground for the big winter in Texas. Other things can go wrong, too. Wind and solar are a mess in this sense.

    It sounds like their design basis was flawed. Next time, they’ll bury the pipes deeper . . .

    Or just keep it running in the first place.  They had problems because they were trying to cold start a bunch of equipment covered in an inch of ice.

    • #62
  3. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    The wind went to hell under the ice conditions or whatever and the greenies still blame the conservatives for something, like they didn’t have enough green power. I don’t know. 

    Just in the last week I have become more convinced that going down the road of this green communist stuff is worse than I’ve ever thought. National suicide.

    • #63
  4. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):
    nuke and coal

    One of the things that I learned recently from the Texas deal that is sort of obvious is, the logistics of nuke and coal are way easier. You just keep a stockpile at the plant.

    Natural gas has advantages as mentioned above, but it’s a big, complicated logistical system. They didn’t have the pipes buried low enough into the ground for the big winter in Texas. Other things can go wrong, too. Wind and solar are a mess in this sense.

    It sounds like their design basis was flawed. Next time, they’ll bury the pipes deeper . . .

    Or just keep it running in the first place. They had problems because they were trying to cold start a bunch of equipment covered in an inch of ice.

    GA uses Natural Gas for heating in so many places and never. never, have our pipes frozen.

    • #64
  5. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Here’s another thing. Given all of the inflation, debt, and all the other problems we have, you can’t tell me clean coal isn’t something we should consider. I think if you threw out all of the CO2 nonsense, it would net out really good right now. We make decisions like this all of the time.

    • #65
  6. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):
    nuke and coal

    One of the things that I learned recently from the Texas deal that is sort of obvious is, the logistics of nuke and coal are way easier. You just keep a stockpile at the plant.

    Natural gas has advantages as mentioned above, but it’s a big, complicated logistical system. They didn’t have the pipes buried low enough into the ground for the big winter in Texas. Other things can go wrong, too. Wind and solar are a mess in this sense.

    It sounds like their design basis was flawed. Next time, they’ll bury the pipes deeper . . .

    Or just keep it running in the first place. They had problems because they were trying to cold start a bunch of equipment covered in an inch of ice.

    GA uses Natural Gas for heating in so many places and never. never, have our pipes frozen.

    Same in Ohio, and it’s so reliable that people have auto-start emergency generators that are gas powered.

    • #66
  7. DonG (CAGW is a Hoax) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Hoax)
    @DonG

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    Natural gas has advantages as mentioned above, but it’s a big, complicated logistical system. They didn’t have the pipes buried low enough into the ground for the big winter in Texas. Other things can go wrong, too. Wind and solar are a mess in this sense. 

    The pipes don’t need to be buried.  Natural gas does not freeze like water.  The problem is that the required pumping stations were converted from natural gas powered to grid powered to appease the eco-commies.   So rather than have a nat. gas distribution system that is self-powered, it was reliant on wind and solar.   Thanks Obama!

    • #67
  8. GLDIII Purveyor of Splendid Malpropisms Reagan
    GLDIII Purveyor of Splendid Malpropisms
    @GLDIII

    Stad (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):
    nuke and coal

    One of the things that I learned recently from the Texas deal that is sort of obvious is, the logistics of nuke and coal are way easier. You just keep a stockpile at the plant.

    Natural gas has advantages as mentioned above, but it’s a big, complicated logistical system. They didn’t have the pipes buried low enough into the ground for the big winter in Texas. Other things can go wrong, too. Wind and solar are a mess in this sense.

    It sounds like their design basis was flawed. Next time, they’ll bury the pipes deeper . . .

    My understanding was the pipes pumps and well heads were to have back up heaters (like they do in the northern states), but at some point in the review process they decided that the “very small”likely hood of using them was not worth the expense (not an uncommon trade off in real world engineering).

    Well it is like the realization that a statistical 500 year flood actually can occur a few years after your project was completed after you decided that designing to the 100 year was sufficient given the order of magnitude cost increase for the 500 year would possibly sink your project.

    • #68
  9. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    DonG (CAGW is a Hoax) (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    Natural gas has advantages as mentioned above, but it’s a big, complicated logistical system. They didn’t have the pipes buried low enough into the ground for the big winter in Texas. Other things can go wrong, too. Wind and solar are a mess in this sense.

    The pipes don’t need to be buried. Natural gas does not freeze like water. The problem is that the required pumping stations were converted from natural gas powered to grid powered to appease the eco-commies. So rather than have a nat. gas distribution system that is self-powered, it was reliant on wind and solar. Thanks Obama!

    What was/is the emergency/backup system to power the pumping stations?

    • #69
  10. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Power should be built to never fail. We should spend whatever it costs, including hardening against an EMP. The money is there, just spend less on social crap.

    • #70
  11. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    The freezing temperature of methane is -295° F. The freezing temperature of methane hydrates (a component of natural gas) can be above 32° F. That won’t affect the pipe part of the pipeline, but can freeze up pumps, particularly the pumps at the wellheads themselves. Those froze up in Texas, and once that happened, no gas. 

    There would have been no power outage at all, except some jug-earred knucklehead declared war on coal and tried to replace it with wind, solar, and unicorn farts. Unfortunately, the wind turbines froze too, the sun didn’t shine, and there are no unicorns.

    • #71
  12. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Here’s another thing. Given all of the inflation, debt, and all the other problems we have, you can’t tell me clean coal isn’t something we should consider. I think if you threw out all of the CO2 nonsense, it would net out really good right now. We make decisions like this all of the time.

    Shh, there are people involved in this who are feeling some feelings. 

    • #72
  13. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Percival (View Comment):

    The freezing temperature of methane is -295° F. The freezing temperature of methane hydrates (a component of natural gas) can be above 32° F. That won’t affect the pipe part of the pipeline, but can freeze up pumps, particularly the pumps at the wellheads themselves. Those froze up in Texas, and once that happened, no gas.

    There would have been no power outage at all, except some jug-earred knucklehead declared war on coal and tried to replace it with wind, solar, and unicorn farts. Unfortunately, the wind turbines froze too, the sun didn’t shine, and there are no unicorns.

    ~springs into action with a ten-year environmental impact study regarding unicorn habitations~ 

    • #73
  14. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    Stad (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):
    nuke and coal

    One of the things that I learned recently from the Texas deal that is sort of obvious is, the logistics of nuke and coal are way easier. You just keep a stockpile at the plant.

    Natural gas has advantages as mentioned above, but it’s a big, complicated logistical system. They didn’t have the pipes buried low enough into the ground for the big winter in Texas. Other things can go wrong, too. Wind and solar are a mess in this sense.

    It sounds like their design basis was flawed. Next time, they’ll bury the pipes deeper . . .

    The input of natural gas into the pipeline system tends to vary, which means available natural gas varies, since storage is difficult. Much natural gas is a byproduct of oil extraction. 

    Coal and nuclear do have a big reliability advantage in the ability to store fuel on-site. The downside to nuclear that took out one of the Texas nuclear plants during the big freeze was the freezing of the intake for cooling water. 

    • #74
  15. Douglas Pratt Coolidge
    Douglas Pratt
    @DouglasPratt

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):
    nuke and coal

    One of the things that I learned recently from the Texas deal that is sort of obvious is, the logistics of nuke and coal are way easier. You just keep a stockpile at the plant.

    Natural gas has advantages as mentioned above, but it’s a big, complicated logistical system. They didn’t have the pipes buried low enough into the ground for the big winter in Texas. Other things can go wrong, too. Wind and solar are a mess in this sense.

    It sounds like their design basis was flawed. Next time, they’ll bury the pipes deeper . . .

    The input of natural gas into the pipeline system tends to vary, which means available natural gas varies, since storage is difficult. Much natural gas is a byproduct of oil extraction.

    Coal and nuclear do have a big reliability advantage in the ability to store fuel on-site. The downside to nuclear that took out one of the Texas nuclear plants during the big freeze was the freezing of the intake for cooling water.

    Molten salt reactors solve that problem. 

    • #75
  16. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):
    nuke and coal

    One of the things that I learned recently from the Texas deal that is sort of obvious is, the logistics of nuke and coal are way easier. You just keep a stockpile at the plant.

    Natural gas has advantages as mentioned above, but it’s a big, complicated logistical system. They didn’t have the pipes buried low enough into the ground for the big winter in Texas. Other things can go wrong, too. Wind and solar are a mess in this sense.

    It sounds like their design basis was flawed. Next time, they’ll bury the pipes deeper . . .

    The input of natural gas into the pipeline system tends to vary, which means available natural gas varies, since storage is difficult. Much natural gas is a byproduct of oil extraction.

    Coal and nuclear do have a big reliability advantage in the ability to store fuel on-site. The downside to nuclear that took out one of the Texas nuclear plants during the big freeze was the freezing of the intake for cooling water.

    Molten salt reactors solve that problem.

    And they come with that cute little yellow umbrella…so adorbs. 

    • #76
  17. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):
    nuke and coal

    One of the things that I learned recently from the Texas deal that is sort of obvious is, the logistics of nuke and coal are way easier. You just keep a stockpile at the plant.

    Natural gas has advantages as mentioned above, but it’s a big, complicated logistical system. They didn’t have the pipes buried low enough into the ground for the big winter in Texas. Other things can go wrong, too. Wind and solar are a mess in this sense.

    It sounds like their design basis was flawed. Next time, they’ll bury the pipes deeper . . .

    Or just keep it running in the first place. They had problems because they were trying to cold start a bunch of equipment covered in an inch of ice.

    Maybe the piping should have heat tracing installed . . .

    • #77
  18. Cassandro Coolidge
    Cassandro
    @Flicker

    TBA (View Comment):

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):
    nuke and coal

    One of the things that I learned recently from the Texas deal that is sort of obvious is, the logistics of nuke and coal are way easier. You just keep a stockpile at the plant.

    Natural gas has advantages as mentioned above, but it’s a big, complicated logistical system. They didn’t have the pipes buried low enough into the ground for the big winter in Texas. Other things can go wrong, too. Wind and solar are a mess in this sense.

    It sounds like their design basis was flawed. Next time, they’ll bury the pipes deeper . . .

    The input of natural gas into the pipeline system tends to vary, which means available natural gas varies, since storage is difficult. Much natural gas is a byproduct of oil extraction.

    Coal and nuclear do have a big reliability advantage in the ability to store fuel on-site. The downside to nuclear that took out one of the Texas nuclear plants during the big freeze was the freezing of the intake for cooling water.

    Molten salt reactors solve that problem.

    And they come with that cute little yellow umbrella…so adorbs.

    Are Morton salt reactors a real thing?

    • #78
  19. Jim McConnell Member
    Jim McConnell
    @JimMcConnell

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    The wind went to hell under the ice conditions or whatever and the greenies still blame the conservatives for something, like they didn’t have enough green power. I don’t know.

    Just in the last week I have become more convinced that going down the road of this green communist stuff is worse than I’ve ever thought. National suicide.

    I really think Germany will be a good example in the coming years of what life will be like under the Climatists’ rules. Cold, hard and miserable — much like the Middle Ages.

    • #79
  20. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

     

     

     

     

     

     

    • #80
  21. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Cassandro (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):
    nuke and coal

    One of the things that I learned recently from the Texas deal that is sort of obvious is, the logistics of nuke and coal are way easier. You just keep a stockpile at the plant.

    Natural gas has advantages as mentioned above, but it’s a big, complicated logistical system. They didn’t have the pipes buried low enough into the ground for the big winter in Texas. Other things can go wrong, too. Wind and solar are a mess in this sense.

    It sounds like their design basis was flawed. Next time, they’ll bury the pipes deeper . . .

    The input of natural gas into the pipeline system tends to vary, which means available natural gas varies, since storage is difficult. Much natural gas is a byproduct of oil extraction.

    Coal and nuclear do have a big reliability advantage in the ability to store fuel on-site. The downside to nuclear that took out one of the Texas nuclear plants during the big freeze was the freezing of the intake for cooling water.

    Molten salt reactors solve that problem.

    And they come with that cute little yellow umbrella…so adorbs.

    Are Morton salt reactors a real thing?

    Kosher ones, yes . . .

    • #81
  22. aardo vozz Member
    aardo vozz
    @aardovozz

    TBA (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    The freezing temperature of methane is -295° F. The freezing temperature of methane hydrates (a component of natural gas) can be above 32° F. That won’t affect the pipe part of the pipeline, but can freeze up pumps, particularly the pumps at the wellheads themselves. Those froze up in Texas, and once that happened, no gas.

    There would have been no power outage at all, except some jug-earred knucklehead declared war on coal and tried to replace it with wind, solar, and unicorn farts. Unfortunately, the wind turbines froze too, the sun didn’t shine, and there are no unicorns.

    ~springs into action with a ten-year environmental impact study regarding unicorn habitations~

    … But needing a more comprehensive fart estimate, so getting federal funding for a further five years for fostering fart forensics.🙄

    • #82
  23. DonG (CAGW is a Hoax) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Hoax)
    @DonG

    Percival (View Comment):
    There would have been no power outage at all, except some jug-earred knucklehead declared war on coal and tried to replace it with wind, solar, and unicorn farts. Unfortunately, the wind turbines froze too, the sun didn’t shine, and there are no unicorns.

    There is another system issue with Texas power.   The hottest days and the coldest days occur when a high pressure system stalls over the state and provides near windless conditions.   Thus, the wind power will always be lowest on the days when demand is highest. 

    • #83
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