2016 All Over Again

 

Well, here we go. History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

We are now engaged in that argument that we already had in 2016, except that everything is either different, or the same.  Not sure which.  Many hatchets were buried after Trump’s election, some in opponents’ skulls.  As a side note, I know that TPTB tried to cool things down by ruling some terms such as “NeverTrumper”, “Vichy”, and “Trumpkins” (IIRC) off-limits, which surprisingly enough, like water on a grease fire, technically did some good, but probably did more harm.

Reluctant Trumpers may be seen as those who broke off from NeverTrumping after the election, either by dint of “He’s the guy now,” or being pleasantly surprised by the lack of armageddon literally promised us by folks including certain former editors of the site.  I recall elaborate proofs laid out by members which hath shewn with geometric logic — sufficient to find a quart of strawberries — that he could not ever win.  The smug anticipation of one-upping, two-upping, seven-upping the Trumpsters “after he loses”.  Those were the days!

The great crazy variable thrown into the machinery was not Trump per se, but the American mood.  I would be interested to know if any of the folks who are not fond of Trump still put any credence in the “Russia Collusion” line of thought, as outside of Hillary and some die-hard communist media outlets, I do not think anybody believes that Trump somehow stole the 2016 election.  The American people put Trump in office in 2016, much to the horror of some people who used to be here, and to the mixed chagrin of many who are still here.  Fair enough.  Trump was not my first choice, but he was my last, and I dare say I got there before many.

I’ll just gently say that those who feel they had misjudged Trump and were pleasantly surprised (or at least not horrified) had in fact misjudged the American mood.  I don’t wish to lean upon some unseen Deus ex populi (‘The polls are all wrong, you’ll see!”), but I do think there’s a decent case that the American people are more sour now than in 2016, and even less likely to own up to political leanings away from the Democrat-media complex.  Soviet-style denunciations are very real these days, with very real consequences.  What was a threat in 2016 is simply a fact by now.

China dispossessed all depositors of a certain bank in Henan by turning their COVID codes red — they were unable to visit the bank, which was made a requirement in order to withdraw funds.  Who needs physical Gulags, when the government rules and isolates us through its digital militants at Google, Facebook, Apple, and Microsoft?  So I think that it is fair to say that expression of counter-establishment views are increasingly under-represented.  I won’t lean on it — I prove nothing.  Just a data point to consider with however much weight you give it.

We will be back on the Trump fight for a while.  Maybe he’ll run, maybe not.  Maybe he’ll become the nominee, maybe not.  Maybe he’ll be elected, maybe not.  I understand that things are different now than they were then — of course.  I also understand that those who were mistaken (regardless of their level of conviction) about Trump’s viability in 2016 are likely to lean toward mistaking the mood of the American people on the same question eight years later.  Surely, there are many pieces in motion, and just like last time, we will not know what’s what until the dust settles.

Myself, I am convinced that without changes somewhere, the mutiny and coup that installed Biden will never allow another fair election.  Yet as folks like Hugh Hewitt have pointed out for decades, they can’t steal a blowout.

If you do not feel that the 2020 election was stolen (and much more), then you will not agree with my other premises.  I hear ya.  You will feel that Trump single-handedly crashed the Party, just like you said he would.  You probably also feel that the Republicans can not accomplish anything without supermajorities in both houses, which somehow are not needed for Democrats to get things done.

As for me, I lay much blame at the feet of Perfidious Paul Ryan, whom I have disliked since before I ever heard of Trump, and for consistent reasons.  He’s Boehner without the orange.  I would say without the tears, but yesterday I read that Paul Ryan said he wept when he saw January 6th, and then went on about “the building where I had spent so much time”.  Well, that’s what I expect.  Poor Paul Ryan.  It was never his fault.  Nobody brought him a supermajority, and that’s why he couldn’t do anything, boo-hoo.

Anyway.  Here we go again.  I was pretty unpleasant at times (but always entertaining).  I shall endeavor to be less unpleasant.  I dare say that the site has improved greatly in the way it handles things — less school-marming, less “instruct the pogues”, fewer tut-tuts.  Ricochet used to be very small, and collegial.  It has become less of both, and in both cases I think that is an improvement.

What will happen with Trump?  I certainly do not know.  But I know that we will argue about it.  Please don’t think me rude if I dismiss guarantees issued as warnings.  I heard enough of apocalyptic guarantees last time around.

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  1. Doctor Robert Member
    Doctor Robert
    @DoctorRobert

    Franco (View Comment):

    genferei (View Comment):

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):.

    The Turtle, however, deserves our unending gratitude for Justices Garland, Barret, and dozens in the district courts.

    I’ve heard this said enough times – with me nodding sagely along- to start to really doubt it. I mean, isn’t this his job? At some point the gratitude for doing what you are supposed to runs out, even if no one else managed to be minimally competent in the past. We should be raising our expectations of our elected representatives, not being perpetually overwhelmed when they manage not to underperform.

    Absolutely.

    It signals to me low expectations. Of course he should have done those things. It’s not rocket-science either. You are a politician, you can vote, block, stall and maneuver.

    Perhaps, but we had not seen Republicans play hard ball before.

    • #31
  2. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    I still hope DeSantis is the nominee. Though Trump was a superb President overall, flaws notwithstanding.

    • #32
  3. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    I’m very torn about this from my best objective assessment.

    The crux is that Trump re-introduces all the stuff we are so sick of –

    or

    that these tropes will just become absurd and indefensible. It would be a rebuke.

    Theoretically I’d prefer Rand Paul and I’d consider Tulsi Gabbard. 

    They will demonize De Santis or any Republican nominee. It amazes me that these pundits are falling for the same con.

    • #33
  4. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    She (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    BDB:

    Ricochet used to be very small, and collegial. It has become less of both, and in both cases I think that is an improvement.

     

    Has Ricochet grown? I got the impression that membership peaked circa 2015, and never fully recovered from the 2106 election. The Trump supporters drove out a lot of the Trump opponents, then the Trump supporters left b/c they complained the site’s management was insufficiently pro-Trump, and both sides left complaining about the moderation policies and enforcement.

    It has seemed smaller and quieter ever since, at least to me.

    Perhaps it only seemed smaller. I don’t have access to figures.

    Nor do I, but a number of people bailed and went to ratburger when that site was viable. Some of those who did were the loudest way back when.

    Very few Ricochet members bailed on Ricochet and went to Ratburger. The great majority of the 200-or-so members of Ratburger who were there at the end had kept their Ricochet memberships, and continued to post here throughout. A small number of Ratburgians were members who’d been banned here. The remainder actually did leave here voluntarily to go there, but they were few in number.

    The “Members” page lists a total of 12,496 members (I think this includes everyone who’s ever been a member), and 7,185 “active” members. That’s about a 40% increase from the 5000-0r-s0 active members at which the site seemed stuck for years (up to around 2016, for sure). Certainly, the rate of sign-ups has increased over the past several months, and I’ve noticed a number of “first posts” by new members lately, which is great.

    I’d take all these numbers with a grain of salt, but perhaps they are helpful just for rough information as to trends.

    You’d have more if it wasn’t for that sock-puppet clause. 

    • #34
  5. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Franco (View Comment):

    I’m very torn about this from my best objective assessment.

    The crux is that Trump re-introduces all the stuff we are so sick of –

    or

    that these tropes will just become absurd and indefensible. It would be a rebuke.

    Theoretically I’d prefer Rand Paul and I’d consider Tulsi Gabbard.

    They will demonize De Santis or any Republican nominee. It amazes me that these pundits are falling for the same con.

    They just really want to kick the football. 

    • #35
  6. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    iWe (View Comment):

    I still hope DeSantis is the nominee. Though Trump was a superb President overall, flaws notwithstanding.

    DeSantis is what Trump could be if Donald would read Sun Tzu, or maybe Clausewitz.

    • #36
  7. Nohaaj Coolidge
    Nohaaj
    @Nohaaj

    Franco (View Comment):
    They will demonize De Santis or any Republican nominee.

    Trees for forest.  They will demonize every and any non-Democrat. Trump, DeSantis,  and every other potential nominee, including democrat in sheep’s skin Romney. They , each and every one,  if nominated, will become accused of being literally “Hitler”.  How naive to think you can avoid that fate by nominating someone else besides Trump

    • #37
  8. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):

    genferei (View Comment):

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):.

    The Turtle, however, deserves our unending gratitude for Justices Garland, Barret, and dozens in the district courts.

    I’ve heard this said enough times – with me nodding sagely along- to start to really doubt it. I mean, isn’t this his job? At some point the gratitude for doing what you are supposed to runs out, even if no one else managed to be minimally competent in the past. We should be raising our expectations of our elected representatives, not being perpetually overwhelmed when they manage not to underperform.

    Absolutely.

    It signals to me low expectations. Of course he should have done those things. It’s not rocket-science either. You are a politician, you can vote, block, stall and maneuver.

    Perhaps, but we had not seen Republicans play hard ball before.

    They may have all learned their lesson. 

    • #38
  9. Timothy Landon Inactive
    Timothy Landon
    @TimothyLandon

    Thank you for posting. I will continue to oppose Trump being elected and support Republicans for Congress, state, and local races.  My hope is that the GOP follows Haley Barbour’s advice and focuses on its accomplishments and its vision. I personally hope Tim Scott has a long and successful tenure in Congress.

    • #39
  10. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Nohaaj (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):
    They will demonize De Santis or any Republican nominee.

    Trees for forest. They will demonize every and any non-Democrat. Trump, DeSantis, and every other potential nominee, including democrat in sheep’s skin Romney. They , each and every one, if nominated, will become accused of being literally “Hitler”. How naive to think you can avoid that fate by nominating someone else besides Trump

    They already started, they’ve been demonizing “DeathSantis” for 2 years now. The encouraging thing is he’s shown real backbone. He doesn’t back down under fire, instead he doubles down. 

    • #40
  11. genferei Member
    genferei
    @genferei

    Are there enough America Firsters (or whatever one calls the believers in Trumpism) willing to work for or with an America First President to make any difference? Or will the Ryans, McCarthys, McConnells, Mattises, Boltons etc etc always be too numerous and too wedded to the Deep State/Blob/WEF agenda to get anything done? They wouldn’t even let Trump build a wall! They couldn’t even kill Obamacare (even symbolically)! Two of the best-polling positions in politics.

    • #41
  12. DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    genferei (View Comment):

    Are there enough America Firsters (or whatever one calls the believers in Trumpism) willing to work for or with an America First President to make any difference? Or will the Ryans, McCarthys, McConnells, Mattises, Boltons etc etc always be too numerous and too wedded to the Deep State/Blob/WEF agenda to get anything done?

    That second one.

    • #42
  13. I Walton Member
    I Walton
    @IWalton

    Article is dead on as are many of the comments.  If Biden is not the candidate, which is most likely, then Trump won’t run, and he might not anyway, but is playing it well.  He can bail out at about the time he should, when it’s clear Biden won’t be the candidate.  Of course we can’t know.  I have no special insight, after all its in the future and not knowable.    The bad news is that a Republican  still has to win by 15 or 20% or the election will be successfully stolen and the Republic is over which even leading Democrats don’t understand.  If we simply dump him, the Democrats will more easily win because some Trump folks won’t vote because like almost all Democrats, they don’t understand either.   Trump must decide not to run.  He cannot be dumped.   If he stays in and runs, he must be backed and any Republican who thinks some Democrat would be better simply lacks any grasp of what is at stake. 

    • #43
  14. Duane Oyen Member
    Duane Oyen
    @DuaneOyen

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    This is an interesting post, given the one I placed a few hours ago. Another bit of polling has come to my attention: right now, even Biden beats Trump.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/biden-is-politically-dead-and-yet-he-still-beats-donald-trump-in-the-polling/

    Look, I love the guy for HIS love of America and his desire to drain the swamp. But, thanks in no small part to perfidious fools like Paul Ryan, Trump’s presidency lacked accomplishment. There are the Three Supremes, may Allah bless them with long and productive lives; the Abraham Accords; and a bunch of executive policies which have been undone by the current PTB.

    We need to thank Mr Trump for the good work he did, deny him the nomination, especially discourage him from running as a third party, and nominate someone like Mr Cruz, Mr DeSantis, Dr Paul, Ms Noem, Ms Haley, Mr Jindall, someone with deeply conservative values who can work with the Congress to pass pro-American legislation.

    Now talk me out of my opinion.

    Frankly, Haley, Jindall, and DeSantis have more in common with Paul Ryan than they do with Trump- and they are all fine, I think.  All four of them are intellectually ambitious and do their homework on topics before opining or making decisions.  Cruz is bright and about as oily as they come on the right side.  RE Rand Paul, who needs more doctrinaire isolationists who will still sell out alleged principles- even when the principles are stoopid- to political ambition.   Noem is the same, having sold out to the banks and credit card people over Title IX and transgender “rights” at the first sign of corporate lefty displeasure.

    Honestly, the mindless carping about Paul Ryan reveals a shallowness similar to Trump’s nine-year-old boy-with-a-grudge maturity level. 

    How about a constitutional amendment prohibiting anyone from taking the oath of office when over the age of 70.  There are plenty of good choices who are in a more vigor-brain-health stage of life.

    • #44
  15. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    DeSantis have more in common with Paul Ryan

    DeSantis is one of those rare birds that can actually articulate Trumpism without calling on his name. None of the rest, and especially not Paul F-Ing Ryan are capable of that.

    Certainly not one Never Trumper has ever been able to do that.

    DeSantis won his primary against a Paul Ryan type who promised to work with Trump. DeSantis never made any such claim.

    • #45
  16. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):
    Honestly, the mindless carping about Paul Ryan reveals a shallowness similar to Trump’s nine-year-old boy-with-a-grudge maturity level. 

    And there it is.

    • #46
  17. Cassandro Coolidge
    Cassandro
    @Flicker

    Duane Oyen (View Comment):

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    This is an interesting post, given the one I placed a few hours ago. Another bit of polling has come to my attention: right now, even Biden beats Trump.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/biden-is-politically-dead-and-yet-he-still-beats-donald-trump-in-the-polling/

    Look, I love the guy for HIS love of America and his desire to drain the swamp. But, thanks in no small part to perfidious fools like Paul Ryan, Trump’s presidency lacked accomplishment. There are the Three Supremes, may Allah bless them with long and productive lives; the Abraham Accords; and a bunch of executive policies which have been undone by the current PTB.

    We need to thank Mr Trump for the good work he did, deny him the nomination, especially discourage him from running as a third party, and nominate someone like Mr Cruz, Mr DeSantis, Dr Paul, Ms Noem, Ms Haley, Mr Jindall, someone with deeply conservative values who can work with the Congress to pass pro-American legislation.

    Now talk me out of my opinion.

    Frankly, Haley, Jindall, and DeSantis have more in common with Paul Ryan than they do with Trump- and they are all fine, I think. All four of them are intellectually ambitious and do their homework on topics before opining or making decisions. Cruz is bright and about as oily as they come on the right side. RE Rand Paul, who needs more doctrinaire isolationists who will still sell out alleged principles- even when the principles are stoopid- to political ambition. Noem is the same, having sold out to the banks and credit card people over Title IX and transgender “rights” at the first sign of corporate lefty displeasure.

    Honestly, the mindless carping about Paul Ryan reveals a shallowness similar to Trump’s nine-year-old boy-with-a-grudge maturity level.

    How about a constitutional amendment prohibiting anyone from taking the oath of office when over the age of 70. There are plenty of good choices who are in a more vigor-brain-health stage of life.

    At least Trump is mature enough not to have shot at anyone in the halls of Congress.  But this has happened.  Talk about immature.

    • #47
  18. DonG (CAGW is a Hoax) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Hoax)
    @DonG

    Stina (View Comment):
    DeSantis is one of those rare birds that can actually articulate Trumpism without calling on his name. None of the rest, and especially not Paul F-Ing Ryan are capable of that.

    Paul Ryan is a corporatist that aided the Russian Hoax Coup.   During Americas greatest crisis in century, he chose to line his pockets.   Let him continue whoring out his Rolodex at Teneo rather than re-enter politics.

    • #48
  19. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    Here’s what should make this different than 2016. The Obama years were mediocre to low level bad. They weren’t awful, but they weren’t good, either. They were survivable with minimal “luck,” but a lot of people didn’t have that luck.

    Trump was a massive gamble with no prior record running against people with records no one liked or cared for, saying things that resonated that his competition were embarrassed to say out loud.

    This time, Biden is way worse than awful. It is a catastrophe. Even the people who made it work under Obama are hurting now.

    Trump is not a massive gamble anymore. The 3 years before COVID were good. People were doing good financially. They were recovering or thriving. There was a positive outlook. Until COVID.

    But Trump had nothing to do with COVID lockdowns. Those were local – which was the right call. He got vaccines to people who wanted them quickly. There was nothing wrong with that. But that year was not normal and not reflective of Trump’s administration.

    The tweets and the flamboyance were worth it. The Trump years compared to the Biden years were really very nice. And I don’t think I’m the only one who felt that way financially.

    • #49
  20. Rudert, Bro/Brah/Broski Inactive
    Rudert, Bro/Brah/Broski
    @JasonRudert

    The question I always wanted to ask John Kerry: aren’t you kind of glad you didn’t win in ‘04? You would have started off with your VP’s illegitimate kid scandal, and then presided over the entire housing crisis/Great Recession, and watched it juuuust turn around in time for you to leave office.

    Same idea: does Trump really want to be President in 2024-28? For what it’s worth, he’s already  said that he doesn’t. Somebody pointed out that his policies, and all the problems we’ve been ignoring for years, were going to turn the country into crap somewhere around 2026-7. His response was, “I don’t care. I’ll be gone by then.”

    A win in ‘24 puts him back at the helm in the “Jackass in a hailstorm” mode of American presidencies.

    Which is why I think Biden is the perfect man for the job. He’s shown a willingness to just eat garbage so far. Why not let him go on being our national receptacle?

    • #50
  21. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Rudert, Bro/Brah/Broski (View Comment):

    The question I always wanted to ask John Kerry: aren’t you kind of glad you didn’t win in ‘04? You would have started off with your VP’s illegitimate kid scandal, and then presided over the entire housing crisis/Great Recession, and watched it juuuust turn around in time for you to leave office.

    Same idea: does Trump really want to be President in 2024-28? For what it’s worth, he’s already said that he doesn’t. Somebody pointed out that his policies, and all the problems we’ve been ignoring for years, were going to turn the country into crap somewhere around 2026-7. His response was, “I don’t care. I’ll be gone by then.”

    A win in ‘24 puts him back at the helm in the “Jackass in a hailstorm” mode of American presidencies.

    Which is why I think Biden is the perfect man for the job. He’s shown a willingness to just eat garbage so far. Why not let him go on being our national receptacle?

    Because Biden has nothing to do with it.  He’s a cat’s-paw.

    • #51
  22. Cassandro Coolidge
    Cassandro
    @Flicker

    BDB (View Comment):

    Rudert, Bro/Brah/Broski (View Comment):

    The question I always wanted to ask John Kerry: aren’t you kind of glad you didn’t win in ‘04? You would have started off with your VP’s illegitimate kid scandal, and then presided over the entire housing crisis/Great Recession, and watched it juuuust turn around in time for you to leave office.

    Same idea: does Trump really want to be President in 2024-28? For what it’s worth, he’s already said that he doesn’t. Somebody pointed out that his policies, and all the problems we’ve been ignoring for years, were going to turn the country into crap somewhere around 2026-7. His response was, “I don’t care. I’ll be gone by then.”

    A win in ‘24 puts him back at the helm in the “Jackass in a hailstorm” mode of American presidencies.

    Which is why I think Biden is the perfect man for the job. He’s shown a willingness to just eat garbage so far. Why not let him go on being our national receptacle?

    Because Biden has nothing to do with it. He’s a cat’s-paw.

    And the decline will continue unabated.

    • #52
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