2016 All Over Again

 

Well, here we go. History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

We are now engaged in that argument that we already had in 2016, except that everything is either different, or the same.  Not sure which.  Many hatchets were buried after Trump’s election, some in opponents’ skulls.  As a side note, I know that TPTB tried to cool things down by ruling some terms such as “NeverTrumper”, “Vichy”, and “Trumpkins” (IIRC) off-limits, which surprisingly enough, like water on a grease fire, technically did some good, but probably did more harm.

Reluctant Trumpers may be seen as those who broke off from NeverTrumping after the election, either by dint of “He’s the guy now,” or being pleasantly surprised by the lack of armageddon literally promised us by folks including certain former editors of the site.  I recall elaborate proofs laid out by members which hath shewn with geometric logic — sufficient to find a quart of strawberries — that he could not ever win.  The smug anticipation of one-upping, two-upping, seven-upping the Trumpsters “after he loses”.  Those were the days!

The great crazy variable thrown into the machinery was not Trump per se, but the American mood.  I would be interested to know if any of the folks who are not fond of Trump still put any credence in the “Russia Collusion” line of thought, as outside of Hillary and some die-hard communist media outlets, I do not think anybody believes that Trump somehow stole the 2016 election.  The American people put Trump in office in 2016, much to the horror of some people who used to be here, and to the mixed chagrin of many who are still here.  Fair enough.  Trump was not my first choice, but he was my last, and I dare say I got there before many.

I’ll just gently say that those who feel they had misjudged Trump and were pleasantly surprised (or at least not horrified) had in fact misjudged the American mood.  I don’t wish to lean upon some unseen Deus ex populi (‘The polls are all wrong, you’ll see!”), but I do think there’s a decent case that the American people are more sour now than in 2016, and even less likely to own up to political leanings away from the Democrat-media complex.  Soviet-style denunciations are very real these days, with very real consequences.  What was a threat in 2016 is simply a fact by now.

China dispossessed all depositors of a certain bank in Henan by turning their COVID codes red — they were unable to visit the bank, which was made a requirement in order to withdraw funds.  Who needs physical Gulags, when the government rules and isolates us through its digital militants at Google, Facebook, Apple, and Microsoft?  So I think that it is fair to say that expression of counter-establishment views are increasingly under-represented.  I won’t lean on it — I prove nothing.  Just a data point to consider with however much weight you give it.

We will be back on the Trump fight for a while.  Maybe he’ll run, maybe not.  Maybe he’ll become the nominee, maybe not.  Maybe he’ll be elected, maybe not.  I understand that things are different now than they were then — of course.  I also understand that those who were mistaken (regardless of their level of conviction) about Trump’s viability in 2016 are likely to lean toward mistaking the mood of the American people on the same question eight years later.  Surely, there are many pieces in motion, and just like last time, we will not know what’s what until the dust settles.

Myself, I am convinced that without changes somewhere, the mutiny and coup that installed Biden will never allow another fair election.  Yet as folks like Hugh Hewitt have pointed out for decades, they can’t steal a blowout.

If you do not feel that the 2020 election was stolen (and much more), then you will not agree with my other premises.  I hear ya.  You will feel that Trump single-handedly crashed the Party, just like you said he would.  You probably also feel that the Republicans can not accomplish anything without supermajorities in both houses, which somehow are not needed for Democrats to get things done.

As for me, I lay much blame at the feet of Perfidious Paul Ryan, whom I have disliked since before I ever heard of Trump, and for consistent reasons.  He’s Boehner without the orange.  I would say without the tears, but yesterday I read that Paul Ryan said he wept when he saw January 6th, and then went on about “the building where I had spent so much time”.  Well, that’s what I expect.  Poor Paul Ryan.  It was never his fault.  Nobody brought him a supermajority, and that’s why he couldn’t do anything, boo-hoo.

Anyway.  Here we go again.  I was pretty unpleasant at times (but always entertaining).  I shall endeavor to be less unpleasant.  I dare say that the site has improved greatly in the way it handles things — less school-marming, less “instruct the pogues”, fewer tut-tuts.  Ricochet used to be very small, and collegial.  It has become less of both, and in both cases I think that is an improvement.

What will happen with Trump?  I certainly do not know.  But I know that we will argue about it.  Please don’t think me rude if I dismiss guarantees issued as warnings.  I heard enough of apocalyptic guarantees last time around.

Published in General
This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 52 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. Nohaaj Coolidge
    Nohaaj
    @Nohaaj

    BDB: What was a threat in 2016 is simply a fact by now.

    It is my observation that the mood is much worse,  the revolt has begun, and will continue. (Ref: Youngkin, Mayra Flores, and Trump’s near pristine endorsement record.)

    • #1
  2. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    BDB: He’s Boehner without the orange.

    The Ur Orange Man Bad.

    • #2
  3. Doctor Robert Member
    Doctor Robert
    @DoctorRobert

    This is an interesting post, given the one I placed a few hours ago.  Another bit of polling has come to my attention: right now, even Biden beats Trump.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/biden-is-politically-dead-and-yet-he-still-beats-donald-trump-in-the-polling/

    Look, I love the guy for HIS love of America and his desire to drain the swamp. But, thanks in no small part to perfidious fools like Paul Ryan, Trump’s presidency lacked accomplishment.  There are the Three Supremes, may Allah bless them with long and productive lives; the Abraham Accords; and a bunch of executive policies which have been undone by the current PTB.

    We need to thank Mr Trump for the good work he did, deny him the nomination, especially discourage him from running as a third party, and nominate someone like Mr Cruz, Mr DeSantis, Dr Paul, Ms Noem, Ms Haley, Mr Jindall, someone with deeply conservative values who can work with the Congress to pass pro-American legislation.

    Now talk me out of my opinion.

    • #3
  4. Phil Turmel Coolidge
    Phil Turmel
    @PhilTurmel

    If Trump is the nominee again, I fully expect the Buckley Rule to be thrown to the dogs again.  Those who did so in 2016 demonstrated poor judgement.  Scattered and grudging concessions to reality since then are not actual indicators that their judgement has changed.  For pundits, whose purpose in life is supposed to be intelligent and trustworthy prognostication, it is a permanent stain on their reputation.

    I recommend filtering those people out of your life.

    • #4
  5. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Trump has a solid record of achievement to run on this time. I don’t think it will be a repeat of 2016.

    • #5
  6. BDB Coolidge
    BDB
    @BDB

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):
    Now talk me out of my opinion.

    Moi?

    • #6
  7. DonG (CAGW is a Hoax) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Hoax)
    @DonG

    Things are different.   It used to be that Trump was the only America First candidate and the Useful Idiots that opposed those policies could pretend to be anti-Trump.   Now, there are many politicians that are America First and all those Idiots can [not] hide behind being NT.    If Trump was a ”7″ out of 10, we have options that are a 7+.

    • #7
  8. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    BDB:

    What will happen with Trump?  I certainly do not know.  But I know that we will argue about it.  Please don’t think me rude if I dismiss guarantees issued as warnings.  I heard enough of apocalyptic guarantees last time around.

     

    Amen

    • #8
  9. DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    This is an interesting post, given the one I placed a few hours ago. Another bit of polling has come to my attention: right now, even Biden beats Trump.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/biden-is-politically-dead-and-yet-he-still-beats-donald-trump-in-the-polling/

     

    That’s weird. I’ve seen many polls that say the exact opposite — that in a rematch, Trump would win easily (just like he beat President LOL81million back in 2020, too). I can’t get past various paywalls to see the details of this polling question, so if someone else can, please let me know the methodology here.

     

    • #9
  10. DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    DonG (CAGW is a Hoax) (View Comment):
    Now, there are many politicians that are America First and all those Idiots can hide behind being NT. 

    Have you noticed how the GOPe tries to destroy them, too.

    • #10
  11. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    BDB:

    Ricochet used to be very small, and collegial.  It has become less of both, and in both cases I think that is an improvement.

     

    Has Ricochet grown?  I got the impression that membership peaked circa 2015, and never fully recovered from the 2106 election.  The Trump supporters drove out a lot of the Trump opponents, then the Trump supporters left b/c they complained the site’s management was insufficiently pro-Trump, and both sides left complaining about the moderation policies and enforcement.

    It has seemed smaller and quieter ever since, at least to me.

    • #11
  12. DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    BDB:

    Ricochet used to be very small, and collegial. It has become less of both, and in both cases I think that is an improvement.

     

    Has Ricochet grown? I got the impression that membership peaked circa 2015, and never fully recovered from the 2106 election. The Trump supporters drove out a lot of the Trump opponents, then the Trump supporters left b/c they complained the site’s management was insufficiently pro-Trump, and both sides left complaining about the moderation policies and enforcement.

    It has seemed smaller and quieter ever since, at least to me.

    The people who just wanted to converse found places to converse.

    • #12
  13. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    This is an interesting post, given the one I placed a few hours ago. Another bit of polling has come to my attention: right now, even Biden beats Trump.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/biden-is-politically-dead-and-yet-he-still-beats-donald-trump-in-the-polling/

    Look, I love the guy for HIS love of America and his desire to drain the swamp. But, thanks in no small part to perfidious fools like Paul Ryan, Trump’s presidency lacked accomplishment. There are the Three Supremes, may Allah bless them with long and productive lives; the Abraham Accords; and a bunch of executive policies which have been undone by the current PTB.

    We need to thank Mr Trump for the good work he did, deny him the nomination, especially discourage him from running as a third party, and nominate someone like Mr Cruz, Mr DeSantis, Dr Paul, Ms Noem, Ms Haley, Mr Jindall, someone with deeply conservative values who can work with the Congress to pass pro-American legislation.

    Now talk me out of my opinion.

    While I admire Cruz and Paul, I don’t think either could be elected. In fact, I think only DeSantis has a chance. 

    Glad Ryan is gone, and wish The Turtle was. 

    • #13
  14. Doctor Robert Member
    Doctor Robert
    @DoctorRobert

    Django (View Comment):

    While I admire Cruz and Paul, I don’t think either could be elected. In fact, I think only DeSantis has a chance. 

    Glad Ryan is gone, and wish The Turtle was. 

    The Turtle, however, deserves our unending gratitude for Justices Garland, Barret, and dozens in the district courts.

    Trump should have spent December 2016 in a conference room with Ryan and Turtle, designing America First legislation to roll out on 1/18/2017.  That he did not do so (and that W did not do so in a similar situation in December 2004) is a crime against our country.

    • #14
  15. DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):
    Trump should have spent December 2016 in a conference room with Ryan and Turtle, designing America First legislation to roll out on 1/18/2017.  That he did not do so (and that W did not do so in a similar situation in December 2004) is a crime against our country.

    I seem to recall Ryan wouldn’t even meet with him. He was just too icky for Ryan.

    • #15
  16. genferei Member
    genferei
    @genferei

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):.

    The Turtle, however, deserves our unending gratitude for Justices Garland, Barret, and dozens in the district courts.

    I’ve heard this said enough times – with me nodding sagely along- to start to really doubt it. I mean, isn’t this his job? At some point the gratitude for doing what you are supposed to runs out, even if no one else managed to be minimally competent in the past. We should be raising our expectations of our elected representatives, not being perpetually overwhelmed when they manage not to underperform.

    • #16
  17. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    While I admire Cruz and Paul, I don’t think either could be elected. In fact, I think only DeSantis has a chance.

    Glad Ryan is gone, and wish The Turtle was.

    The Turtle, however, deserves our unending gratitude for Justices Garland, Barret, and dozens in the district courts.

    Trump should have spent December 2016 in a conference room with Ryan and Turtle, designing America First legislation to roll out on 1/18/2017. That he did not do so (and that W did not do so in a similar situation in December 2004) is a crime against our country.

    There was bad blood between them in the beginning. McConnell made a point of saying, and IIRC, saying before Trump was inaugurated, that Trump didn’t understand how things get done in D. C. It’s likely that was true but saying it in public and basically throwing down the gauntlet to Trump was stupid. As far as I’m concerned, McConnell gets as much or more blame than Trump. BTW, I have despised McConnell ever since he said of The Tea Party, “We’ll crush them.” 

    • #17
  18. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    This is an interesting post, given the one I placed a few hours ago. Another bit of polling has come to my attention: right now, even Biden beats Trump.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/biden-is-politically-dead-and-yet-he-still-beats-donald-trump-in-the-polling/

    Look, I love the guy for HIS love of America and his desire to drain the swamp. But, thanks in no small part to perfidious fools like Paul Ryan, Trump’s presidency lacked accomplishment. There are the Three Supremes, may Allah bless them with long and productive lives; the Abraham Accords; and a bunch of executive policies which have been undone by the current PTB.

    We need to thank Mr Trump for the good work he did, deny him the nomination, especially discourage him from running as a third party, and nominate someone like Mr Cruz, Mr DeSantis, Dr Paul, Ms Noem, Ms Haley, Mr Jindall, someone with deeply conservative values who can work with the Congress to pass pro-American legislation.

    Now talk me out of my opinion.

    How about I question the quality of the poll instead. Why would you believe a NYT poll would accurately reflect anything but a NYT ethos? 

    • #18
  19. BDB Coolidge
    BDB
    @BDB

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    BDB:

    Ricochet used to be very small, and collegial. It has become less of both, and in both cases I think that is an improvement.

     

    Has Ricochet grown? I got the impression that membership peaked circa 2015, and never fully recovered from the 2106 election. The Trump supporters drove out a lot of the Trump opponents, then the Trump supporters left b/c they complained the site’s management was insufficiently pro-Trump, and both sides left complaining about the moderation policies and enforcement.

    It has seemed smaller and quieter ever since, at least to me.

    Perhaps it only seemed smaller.  I don’t have access to figures.

    • #19
  20. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    BDB (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    BDB:

    Ricochet used to be very small, and collegial. It has become less of both, and in both cases I think that is an improvement.

     

    Has Ricochet grown? I got the impression that membership peaked circa 2015, and never fully recovered from the 2106 election. The Trump supporters drove out a lot of the Trump opponents, then the Trump supporters left b/c they complained the site’s management was insufficiently pro-Trump, and both sides left complaining about the moderation policies and enforcement.

    It has seemed smaller and quieter ever since, at least to me.

    Perhaps it only seemed smaller. I don’t have access to figures.

    Nor do I, but a number of people bailed and went to ratburger when that site was viable. Some of those who did were the loudest way back when. 

    • #20
  21. She Member
    She
    @She

    Django (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    BDB:

    Ricochet used to be very small, and collegial. It has become less of both, and in both cases I think that is an improvement.

     

    Has Ricochet grown? I got the impression that membership peaked circa 2015, and never fully recovered from the 2106 election. The Trump supporters drove out a lot of the Trump opponents, then the Trump supporters left b/c they complained the site’s management was insufficiently pro-Trump, and both sides left complaining about the moderation policies and enforcement.

    It has seemed smaller and quieter ever since, at least to me.

    Perhaps it only seemed smaller. I don’t have access to figures.

    Nor do I, but a number of people bailed and went to ratburger when that site was viable. Some of those who did were the loudest way back when.

    Very few Ricochet members bailed on Ricochet and went to Ratburger.  The great majority of the 200-or-so members of Ratburger who were there at the end had kept their Ricochet memberships, and continued to post here throughout.  A small number of Ratburgians  were members who’d been banned here.  The remainder actually did leave here voluntarily to go there, but they were few in number.

    The “Members” page lists a total of 12,496 members (I think this includes everyone who’s ever been a member), and 7,185 “active” members.  That’s about a 40% increase from the 5000-0r-s0 active members at which the site seemed stuck for years (up to around 2016, for sure).  Certainly, the rate of sign-ups has increased over the past several months, and I’ve noticed a number of “first posts” by new members lately, which is great.

    I’d take all these numbers with a grain of salt, but perhaps they are helpful just for rough information as to trends.

     

    • #21
  22. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    She (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    BDB:

    Ricochet used to be very small, and collegial. It has become less of both, and in both cases I think that is an improvement.

     

    Has Ricochet grown? I got the impression that membership peaked circa 2015, and never fully recovered from the 2106 election. The Trump supporters drove out a lot of the Trump opponents, then the Trump supporters left b/c they complained the site’s management was insufficiently pro-Trump, and both sides left complaining about the moderation policies and enforcement.

    It has seemed smaller and quieter ever since, at least to me.

    Perhaps it only seemed smaller. I don’t have access to figures.

    Nor do I, but a number of people bailed and went to ratburger when that site was viable. Some of those who did were the loudest way back when.

    Very few Ricochet members bailed on Ricochet and went to Ratburger. The great majority of the 200-or-so members of Ratburger who were there at the end had kept their Ricochet memberships, and continued to post here throughout. A small number of Ratburgians were members who’d been banned here. The remainder actually did leave here voluntarily to go there, but they were few in number.

    The “Members” page lists a total of 12,496 members (I think this includes everyone who’s ever been a member), and 7,185 “active” members. That’s about a 40% increase from the 5000-0r-s0 active members at which the site seemed stuck for years (up to around 2016, for sure). Certainly, the rate of sign-ups has increased over the past several months, and I’ve noticed a number of “first posts” by new members lately, which is great.

    I’d take all these numbers with a grain of salt, but perhaps they are helpful just for rough information as to trends.

     

    I commented on Ratburger now and then.

    • #22
  23. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Trump has a solid record of achievement to run on this time. I don’t think it will be a repeat of 2016.

    If a person hates Trump, his record will be irrelevant. Haters gotta hate, and nothing else will matter.

    • #23
  24. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    genferei (View Comment):

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):.

    The Turtle, however, deserves our unending gratitude for Justices Garland, Barret, and dozens in the district courts.

    I’ve heard this said enough times – with me nodding sagely along- to start to really doubt it. I mean, isn’t this his job? At some point the gratitude for doing what you are supposed to runs out, even if no one else managed to be minimally competent in the past. We should be raising our expectations of our elected representatives, not being perpetually overwhelmed when they manage not to underperform.

    Absolutely.

    It signals to me low expectations. Of course he should have done those things. It’s not rocket-science either. You are a politician, you can vote, block, stall and maneuver. 

    • #24
  25. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Django (View Comment):

    There was bad blood between them in the beginning. McConnell made a point of saying, and IIRC, saying before Trump was inaugurated, that Trump didn’t understand how things get done in D. C. It’s likely that was true but saying it in public and basically throwing down the gauntlet to Trump was stupid. As far as I’m concerned, McConnell gets as much or more blame than Trump. BTW, I have despised McConnell ever since he said of The Tea Party, “We’ll crush them.” 

    Yet, he hired McConnell’s wife as Transportation Secretary, so apparently he did know how things work in D.C.,  but maybe he had no idea how deeply corrupt they were.  I was a bit cynical before, but now? 

    If there was corruption in Trumps business dealings, it pales in comparison to what the Clinton’s and the Biden’s and the Pelosi’s and McConnell’s are doing. 

    • #25
  26. DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Franco (View Comment):

    Yet, he hired McConnell’s wife as Transportation Secretary, so apparently he did know how things work in D.C., but maybe he had no idea how deeply corrupt they were. I was a bit cynical before, but now?

    I’m sure that’s how it went: he sought advice on who would be good hires, listened to that advice, and then learned later that most of them were backstabbers.

    I don’t think he’ll be taking much advice next time.

    • #26
  27. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    This is an interesting post, given the one I placed a few hours ago.  Another bit of polling has come to my attention: right now, even Biden beats Trump.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/biden-is-politically-dead-and-yet-he-still-beats-donald-trump-in-the-polling/

    Now why would Against Trump National review tout a poll that claims Trump would lose?

    They are a conscious force against him. They are not a calculating arbiter of what’s good for freedom with a conservative bias – which is how I remember National Review of yore. 

    And by the way, what credibility do they have on this subject exactly?

    On it’s face, this doesn’t make any sense at all.

    It’s very easy to fashion a poll and have it report what you want to write about. This is transparent seeding the narrative.

    All polls have Biden down to catastrophic levels.  There is no way Biden can perform well enough to win – almost even if Trump screws-up here and there. No contest. 

     

    • #27
  28. BDB Coolidge
    BDB
    @BDB

    Django (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    BDB:

    Ricochet used to be very small, and collegial. It has become less of both, and in both cases I think that is an improvement.

     

    Has Ricochet grown? I got the impression that membership peaked circa 2015, and never fully recovered from the 2106 election. The Trump supporters drove out a lot of the Trump opponents, then the Trump supporters left b/c they complained the site’s management was insufficiently pro-Trump, and both sides left complaining about the moderation policies and enforcement.

    It has seemed smaller and quieter ever since, at least to me.

    Perhaps it only seemed smaller. I don’t have access to figures.

    Nor do I, but a number of people bailed and went to ratburger when that site was viable. Some of those who did were the loudest way back when.

    I resemble that remark.  

    • #28
  29. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    BDB (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    BDB:

    Ricochet used to be very small, and collegial. It has become less of both, and in both cases I think that is an improvement.

     

    Has Ricochet grown? I got the impression that membership peaked circa 2015, and never fully recovered from the 2106 election. The Trump supporters drove out a lot of the Trump opponents, then the Trump supporters left b/c they complained the site’s management was insufficiently pro-Trump, and both sides left complaining about the moderation policies and enforcement.

    It has seemed smaller and quieter ever since, at least to me.

    Perhaps it only seemed smaller. I don’t have access to figures.

    Nor do I, but a number of people bailed and went to ratburger when that site was viable. Some of those who did were the loudest way back when.

    I resemble that remark.

    NTTAWWT. 

    • #29
  30. BDB Coolidge
    BDB
    @BDB

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):
    This is an interesting post, given the one I placed a few hours ago. 

    It’s interesting regardless.  

    But yes, this grew from a two-comment exchange over there.  And a lifetime of exquisite wisdom.  You’re welcome. 

    • #30
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.