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Talk Me into Supporting Trump Again
This came up today.
As Donald J. Trump weighs whether to open an unusually early White House campaign, a New York Times/Siena College poll shows that his post-presidential quest to consolidate his support within the Republican Party has instead left him weakened, with nearly half the party’s primary voters seeking someone different for president in 2024 and a significant number vowing to abandon him if he wins the nomination.
By focusing on political payback inside his party instead of tending to wounds opened by his alarming attempts to cling to power after his 2020 defeat, Mr. Trump appears to have only deepened fault lines among Republicans during his yearlong revenge tour. A clear majority of primary voters under 35 years old, 64 percent, as well as 65 percent of those with at least a college degree — a leading indicator of political preferences inside the donor class — told pollsters they would vote against Mr. Trump in a presidential primary.
Let’s have a discussion. Should we, or should we not, encourage Mr. Trump to run again?
If he runs again, should we support him in the primaries over Mr. DeSantis, Mr. Cruz, Ms. Noem, others?
I take it as a given that all but one of us would support him in the general, if we are unfortunate enough to have him win the nomination.
My opinion (as someone who loves the man for his outspoken love of country and for all the good he did despite the array of forces stacked against him) is that we should not encourage him, not support him against other Republicans, but fall in line if he does get the nomination. My logic is that his history makes him toxic. He is likely the only candidate whom Mr. Biden could defeat. If elected, he would be even more ineffective than he was in 2017, when he used a historic alignment of forces to accomplish no major legislation, to appoint three sterling justices, to move an embassy, and to otherwise do nothing of lasting importance. Also, if re-elected, he could not stand for a third term of office.
Talk me out of it.
Published in General
He would never even consider such a thing.
I did not claim that. I think it doesn’t matter that Trump’s terms would be non-consecutive if he runs and is re-elected in 2024. I think that “lame-duck” status is no more important in non-consecutive terms than it is in consecutive terms. I think there are far more important issues regarding Trump’s possible candidacy in 2024 than that it would be his second term and last term. That’s as clearly as I can state those small points.
The “gray hairs” seem to be among the worst of our politicians, unfortunately.
I am a bit curious. Why do you think they don’t just lock Trump up or him and his now? Their side would support it. The government would back it, even the GOP. So why not?
Oh, be still my heart. I was once in a room with 900 other military junior officers when a (civilian) former DOD official proposed RIFing half of officers field grade and above to reform the armed services. Standing ovation.
Well, I don’t think Trump is a figurehead. Trump may be a rallying point, but Biden’s a figurehead. But they don’t fear Trump as a figurehead or a rallying point. They fear him as functional president with executive power to write EOs and to veto legislation — at least that. They’re not afraid of the public (they have barbed wire up for that) they’re afraid of Trump as president. I can only guess why. He knows how to drain the swamp and can do it, I guess. Could be wishful thinking.
But we don’t even know if he’s running.
They paid for the air time. But seriously, I think that that would remove all doubt. It’s better to be silent and thought an illegitimate dictator that to arrest your opponent and remove all doubt.
It is possible that the recall of Boudin in SF and the move to recall Gascon in SoCal is an indication that they shouldn’t overplay their hand.
How do you think that DeSantis would evaluate the situation? Would he run against Trump?
I doubt it. I think that if Trump decides to run, DeSantis would realize that opposing him would be a bad move politically, no matter which of them received the nomination. Trump’s bound to be Trump, and will vigorously campaign against any challenger.
It seems to me that the wiser choice for DeSantis, if Trump decides to run, is to strongly support Trump and position himself for the VP position. I think that this would be attractive to Trump, too, as DeSantis is well-positioned at present as Trump’s most likely successor.
Obviously, this is speculation, but it seems to make sense to me. What do you think?
Agree.
A couple of ricochetti have said Trump would “go scorched Earth” against DeSantis if DeSantis runs. My crystal ball is currently under repair, but my best guess is that would turn a lot of supporters against Trump — me, for one — and guarantee a Demo-rat win in 2024.
You need the pretense of legitimacy to fool those who still trust “the system”.
Being so blatantly open would cross a bridge too far to turn back.
I doubt that would happen. Trump has a strong record to run on now. He has so much to say that is concrete rather than abstract that I think his second campaign will be less focused on his opponents. Trump continues to learn and grow. I don’t think you’ll see the same type of campaign we saw. But, course, who knows? You might be right.
Actually, what I think what he will do is continue to harp on election integrity, and that will tick off everyone, even though he is right, that it is the highest priority.
Very logical, but I don’t have a good enough model of either of them to guesstimate the likelihood, particularly since it’s at least 18 months before we know who’s throwing their hats in the ring and that’s a long time as things are lately. Let’s say if I got a credible report of a Trump/DeSantis tete-a-tete at Mar-a-Lago that I might do a happy dance, which would probably have the wife calling the loony squad.
Totally agree. Trump spent almost his entire term fighting off the lies being spread by Adam “Pencil Neck” Schiff and Eric “Fang Fang Swalwell. Still he left the country better off than it is now.
Although I voted for him in 2016 and 2020 and would vote for him again, I would prefer someone such as DeSantis.
The fact that both of those traitorous scum are still holding office is proof that Washington is irreparably broken.
I do not think that side would care. The Left would spin it as a far right extremist and more reason for gun control and most likely sell it to more than not. They already believe he is a Russian sleeper agent from the 70s that was put into office my Putin. They want him in jail without any reasons at all. They can’t even make up a crime. There is no bridge too far if they win and win is all they want.
Here is another thing about Trump. If he did win, who would work for / with him? They are already arresting and harrassing all that did last time. Why would anybody take that risk? People have families and fortunes and futures to consider. It is why we all bend to the Left. Fear of destruction focus the mind. Especially in a all risk little or no gain situation.
They care if it comes to open revolution/civil war. They will lose if it gets that far. Being open makes it happen faster. The DA Venters and Rob Longs wouldn’t be able to hide behind the law if the government so openly and blatantly operates outside it. The people that think things are still not war level would all but disappear if they did that.
The left cannot survive that. They have never survived that. The only places they have persisted beyond blatant disregard for the law is where disarmament has taken place.
I really doubt that DeSantis would take the Vice-Presidency, although I’m also not convinced that he would primary Trump. He is presently running a state, and, regardless of any assurances from the Trump camp, anyone who is Trump’s VP is going to be a minor character. There is also the possibility that Trump might lose.
Probability, though I hate to say it.
He won’t be impeached if there a Republican senate majority.
FIFY.
This is a good argument, too.
I do think that a Trump-DeSantis ticket would be very attractive to a lot of Republicans, and might help overcome the doubts of people who might be skeptical of either. You’re correct about VP being a minor position, except to the extent that it establishes the VP as something like a legitimate, consensus successor to a popular President. Examples include Nixon, Bush ’41, and . . . well, Biden, technically.
I see it as doubtful. DeSantis is a leader and leaders lead. Pence was not a leader which is why he was good at it.
Sure they can. They will send their jack boots and put the boot on the other sides neck just like every other Liberal totalitarian before them. They are already marching through the civil institutions and now the military. Anybody unreliable will be removed then they will do what they want as they please.
I don’t think we should encourage or discourage, but let the cards play out. I get the feeling that there has been much going on behind the scenes in his camp. It is a big decision, and given the outcome of the bizarre last election and what we have now…….the “powers that be” pulled out all the stops to see he did not get re-elected.
Pray that God send us good leadership – he is a lightning rod for controversy and time will tell if it’s a good decision. I seriously think by then, the world stage is going to be a mess for many reasons, and I don’t even trust the elections. We need to call on divine intervention!!
I’ve said this elsewhere …
I don’t expect there to be a Trump 2nd term. Neither do I expect there to be Republican victory in 2024. Trump is too polarising a figure. If he runs, his candidacy will energise his opponents like no one else can. His detractors are legion and they will crawl over broken glass to vote against him. That includes Never-Trump Republicans.
On the other hand, if Republicans nominate anyone else, DeSantis Youngkin… anyone …there is a contingent of Trump supporters who I think of as Only-Trumpers who will sit on their hands. That will be enough to tip the election to the Democrats.
We might prevail in the House and Senate, but not the White House.
This seems to overlook the quality, or lack thereof, of the Democratic candidate, as well as the present state of the economy. They cannot simply throw anyone out there and expect to win, although I agree that Trump would bring a lot of negatives.
I’ve never met an “Only-Trumper.” I don’t think they exist in any sort of significant numbers.
This is, I think, a very insightful analysis.
We need to enroll the Only-Trumpers.