Roe v. Wade is Overturned: Why am I Not Happy?

 

In every war, there are tragedies and victories. We tend to look at the final result, but the victories can be temporary and fragile, and the tragedies can be devastating. As a result, I’m having trouble finding a way to embrace the entire picture of the SCOTUS decision.

Yes, the victories are obvious to me. There is so much to celebrate and appreciate. But I feel overwhelmed by the many losses that have already been endured, and the many we could face:

So many millions of babies have died.

A kind of narcissism has flourished in the face of women’s desires.

Families have been damaged by the choices to abort.

Men have become second-class citizens, often having no choice in the decision.

Women have been wounded after the fact, later realizing they killed a child.

And looking ahead, even more losses:

Corrupt companies will finance travel for women who choose to abort.

Violence could erupt as people refuse to accept justice and decide to destroy businesses, homes and communities.

Local governments will enact laws that allow abortion to flourish.

 

And I could add many more negative outcomes.

 

I want to rejoice.

I want to thank G-d and the justices for their wisdom.

But it’s difficult.

Maybe I need to look to my own humility in the face of this dilemma.

 

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  1. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    David Carroll (View Comment):

    To me, the abortion debate always focused on a point of view. The pro-abortionists focus on the point of view of the unfortunate mother and her only. The unwanted child may seriously disrupt the mother’s life nine months and beyond even if the child is put up for adoption.

    The antiabortion position focuses on the point of view of the child and concludes that the child’s right to live should supersede any discomfort, angst or hardship on the mother, because life is precious.

     

    There are also radically different views about the meaning and purpose of sex. One side views sex as sacred precisely because it is intrinsically linked to reproduction, and therefore something best reserved for marriage. The other side views sex as a means to express one’s sexual identity, with pregnancy as a completely optional add-on.

    There’s a world of difference between an unplanned pregnancy within a marriage (or at least a committed long-term relationship) vs. a crisis pregnancy resulting from a casual hookup. Eliminating abortion as backup birth control would force many people to reconsider their attitudes towards casual sex, which potentially undermines the entire Sexual Revolution.

    Let us pray.

    • #61
  2. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Stina (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Above all, I applaud the Court for re-asserting the Constitution.

    I do too, although you and I likely disagree on the difficulty of the issue (every human life begins at conception), but probably not the seriousness of it.

    I recently read about an oncologist who wrote on her social media account that some pregnant woman needed to get an abortion to allow for safe treatment of their cancer. I suppose I can see how that particular case might be an “edge case.”

    This is so frustrating and I really appreciated the Irish pre legal abortion reasoning on this subject.

    Life saving care is life saving care. When dealing with pregnant women, you don’t go in with the goal of killing a human to save another. You go in with the intention to save both lives, but sometimes that isn’t possible.

    My mother thought she was very very sick while pregnant with my sister. She had no idea she was pregnant and no one knew what hyperemesis gravidarum was at the time. She underwent so many tests and procedures that should have killed my sister in an attempt to diagnose and somehow they never caught the pregnancy. How insane is that?

    My mother was pressured into aborting but she decided not to. My sister is now a police officer with her own little girl.

    Abortion is not necessary to save the life of a mom. But sometimes, life giving care for the mom ends up with a dead baby. But that isn’t guaranteed and putting it in the same category as abortion – a procedure whose goal is a dead baby- muddies the water and makes the conversation less intellectually honest.

    Well said. 

    • #62
  3. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

     

    The other side views sex as a means to express one’s sexual identity, with pregnancy as a completely optional add-on.

    For identity?  That’s nonsense. They view sex as self-centered pleasure. That’s it. There’s no higher calling to it.

    • #63
  4. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Manny (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

     

    The other side views sex as a means to express one’s sexual identity, with pregnancy as a completely optional add-on.

    For identity? That’s nonsense. They view sex as self-centered pleasure. That’s it. There’s no higher calling to it.

    No, Manny. We live in a society obsessed with identity. Only people like us talk about “same-sex attracted” individuals rather than “gays” or “homosexuals.” Sexual identity is everything in the current culture. We’ve had members who “identify” with the Right, but can’t get past their own same-sex attracted inclinations to admit how destructive legitimizing the lie of same-sex marriage is to our society and families. Some “gays” recognize it, but others are too caught up in their identity and have that incurable blind spot.

    • #64
  5. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Foghorn (View Comment):

    Susan, I can’t argue with anything you have said. You are absolutely right in all of it but I just can’t leave it there. I still have to believe that we can make a difference even if it helps just one. I’m not called to do it all but I am called to do something. 

    Remember the previous post about prayer. Why do you still do that daily? There is hope there. I have the same hope here.

    Stay the course sister, even your writingyour I here makes a difference and I wouldn’t want to see you stop.

    Thank you for your kind words, Foghorn. Also, my deepest condolences re the loss of your son. My heart aches for you.

    • #65
  6. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    David Carroll (View Comment):
    Thus, I am sad that there is no reasonable compromise and of the debate is destined to continue

    Thank you, David.

    • #66
  7. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

     

    The other side views sex as a means to express one’s sexual identity, with pregnancy as a completely optional add-on.

    For identity? That’s nonsense. They view sex as self-centered pleasure. That’s it. There’s no higher calling to it.

    No, Manny. We live in a society obsessed with identity. Only people like us talk about “same-sex attracted” individuals rather than “gays” or “homosexuals.” Sexual identity is everything in the current culture. We’ve had members who “identify” with the Right, but can’t get past their own same-sex attracted inclinations to admit how destructive legitimizing the lie of same-sex marriage is to our society and families. Some “gays” recognize it, but others are too caught up in their identity and have that incurable blind spot.

    I don’t know. I think self centered pleasure comes first over identity. After all sex is predominant whether one is straight or gay or whatever. The common denominator is sex. But what do I know?  

    • #67
  8. Cassandro Coolidge
    Cassandro
    @Flicker

    David Carroll (View Comment):

    I share Susan’s reticence over the decision. Yes, it was a good decision in many ways. The case sent a strong message about federalism which I hope is the beginning of a trend in the Supreme Court. I am happy about the decision, but I do not feel joy.

    I feel sad. I feel sad that Roe v. Wade was ever decided and so many babies have died in the meantime. I feel sad for the pro-abortion protesters and their very real angst, even though I disagree with their positions. I feel sad that there are people in the world who think murdering babies, or at least babies-in-process, is morally justifiable.

    I understand the pain of an unexpected pregnancy, particularly in rape or incest cases. I understand the pain even when precautions have been taken but were ineffective. I even understand the unexpected pregnancy pain when caution had been thrown to the winds and pregnancy resulted.

    To me, the abortion debate always focused on a point of view. The pro-abortionists focus on the point of view of the unfortunate mother and her only. The unwanted child may seriously disrupt the mother’s life nine months and beyond even if the child is put up for adoption.

    The antiabortion position focuses on the point of view of the child and concludes that the child’s right to live should supersede any discomfort, angst or hardship on the mother, because life is precious.

    Unfortunately, there is very little middle ground that anyone can consider once they are wedded to their point of view.

    Thus, I am sad that there is no reasonable compromise and of the debate is destined to continue.

    I’m agnostic on abortion, but I firmly take the middle ground on murder.

    • #68
  9. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Abortion is an evil as seen in the behavior of those who support it. Promiscuous sex. Decline in marriage. Expendable  humans. Culture of death. Bastardized politics. It has divided the country just as slavery did.

    Who should be miserable, those who kill babies or those who support life?  We aren’t responsible for their misery. Their debased morality is to blame. 

    • #69
  10. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    And so it begins. This is not the end, just the beginning. The question is beginning of what. Today I saw black bloc moving with purpose on the streets as I drove down the road. Something I have not seen since the BLM riots. Today I dine with friends. All the men were CCW again. Something I have not seen since the BLM riots. The Left will not allow the Right to win. More so because the Right’s cause is just. So the Right must yield or there will be blood. But the Right is weary of yielding. Eventually it will understand that it will have to turn and make a stand. For in the end the Right understands that the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time. The blood price paid to make it thrive. So I am sad because we may be at the beginning of this and I am glad because we may be at the beginning of this.

    Sadly, I must agree. They have had weeks to intimidate the court with nothing from the FBI or US Attorneys to deter illegal actions. It did not work, so now they are not going to simply go away. Its another summer of violence I fear. And then the question will be whether the voters will punish them, or be permitted to do so? I wish I knew whether we have a functioning democracy. Actually I am not sure that I want to know that we don’t.

    • #70
  11. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Manny (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

     

    The other side views sex as a means to express one’s sexual identity, with pregnancy as a completely optional add-on.

    For identity? That’s nonsense. They view sex as self-centered pleasure. That’s it. There’s no higher calling to it.

    More than that.  Sex is an expression of power.  It is a very pagan point of view.  

    • #71
  12. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    It’s going to be a grass roots effort in each of the 50 legislatures.  It will be state legislators who are elected by constituencies of about 10,000 or so people who will make these decisions.  And some of the states will settle their abortion policy by referendum.  

    • #72
  13. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    It’s been a 50 year deception and they’ve had the courage to recognize and make it right. It’s huge, but there will be many more battles.  We can’t change the past – only today.

    • #73
  14. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    It’s going to be a grass roots effort in each of the 50 legislatures. It will be state legislators who are elected by constituencies of about 10,000 or so people who will make these decisions. And some of the states will settle their abortion policy by referendum.

    I can fight for what I believe in my state but at least my state and not California will decide. 

    • #74
  15. BastiatJunior Member
    BastiatJunior
    @BastiatJunior

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    As I say to my kids who’ve had their fair share of struggles: don’t let worries about tomorrow ruin today. It’s a great day!! On many different levels (moral, legal, constitutional. . .)

    Scarlett O’Hara:  “I won’t think about that today.  I’ll think about that tomorrow.  Tomorrow is another day!”

    • #75
  16. BastiatJunior Member
    BastiatJunior
    @BastiatJunior

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    This is a really fascinating profile in the Washington Post of all places, of a young Texas teen who got pregnant, was planning on an abortion before the Texas law would prevent her, and upon seeing the ultrasound (and discovering she was carrying twins), completely changed her mind. It is honest about the struggles she and her boyfriend face as teenagers suddenly becoming parents, but it is ultimately a celebration of babies and of life.

    And it was published in the Washington Post!

     

    One of my co-workers and his wife are very involved in the pro-life movement. He told me today that something like 80-85% of women who are allowed to see an ultrasound, even as early as 8 weeks, do a 180 degree turn and decide not to abort. Which is why the pro-aborts want to keep women from seeing ultrasounds.

    So, they are “pro-choice,” but not “pro-informed-choice.”

    • #76
  17. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    BastiatJunior (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    This is a really fascinating profile in the Washington Post of all places, of a young Texas teen who got pregnant, was planning on an abortion before the Texas law would prevent her, and upon seeing the ultrasound (and discovering she was carrying twins), completely changed her mind. It is honest about the struggles she and her boyfriend face as teenagers suddenly becoming parents, but it is ultimately a celebration of babies and of life.

    And it was published in the Washington Post!

     

    One of my co-workers and his wife are very involved in the pro-life movement. He told me today that something like 80-85% of women who are allowed to see an ultrasound, even as early as 8 weeks, do a 180 degree turn and decide not to abort. Which is why the pro-aborts want to keep women from seeing ultrasounds.

    So, they are “pro-choice,” but not “pro-informed-choice.”

    Ignorance is bliss, which also explains the effectiveness of their teaching methods.

    • #77
  18. BastiatJunior Member
    BastiatJunior
    @BastiatJunior

    Susan Quinn:

    In every war, there are tragedies and victories. We tend to look at the final result, but the victories can be temporary and fragile, and the tragedies can be devastating. As a result, I’m having trouble finding a way to embrace the entire picture of the SCOTUS decision.

     

    The Battle of Midway was a turning point in the Pacific Theater of WWII.  It was indeed a victory, but the war was far from over.  There was a tremendous amount of bloodshed still ahead.

    The battle for Life had just been elevated to a new level, and a new kind of war is just beginning.  This is phase II of the fight for Life.

    Fasten your seatbelt.

    • #78
  19. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    BastiatJunior (View Comment):

    The Battle of Midway was a turning point in the Pacific Theater of WWII.  It was indeed a victory, but the war was far from over.  There was a tremendous amount of bloodshed still ahead.

    The battle for Life had just been elevated to a new level, and a new kind of war is just beginning.  This is phase II of the fight for Life.

    Fasten your seatbelt.

    The tragedy is that we see it as a battle for life and death, and they see it as a battle for convenience and self-indulgence. It has nothing to do with rights. Thanks, BJ.

    • #79
  20. W Bob Member
    W Bob
    @WBob

    Unsk (View Comment):

    Roe recognized the Right to Life with the it’s ban on third trimester abortions. It essentially recognizes that at the time of fetal viability – then the beginning roughly the third trimester- the fetus had an equal right to Life as the rest of us, because from at least from my point of view, the Equal Protection Clause protects those yet unborn babies whose age and viability is the same as those being born of the same age. How can one fetus that ‘s let’s say 20 weeks be born and another be murdered of the same age?

    It didn’t ban any abortions. Technically it left open that states could restrict abortion after viability, but if I’m not mistaken, the jurisprudence that developed thereafter made it effectively impossible to do so. As a result, attempts to outlaw late term abortions were routinely overturned. Abortion on demand until the moment of birth has been the law of the land. There was no point in trying to restrict even only late term abortions, because the same legal precedent that governed early term abortions governed all others.

    Until now. By sweeping away Roe and all post Roe restrictions on state abortion limits, I think we may very well eventually see many states that aren’t among the 26 that are about to restrict it actually enact some restrictions themselves, even if only on late term abortions. This will depend upon robust pro-life lobbying and education. In the end, how do you defend late term elective abortion? You can’t. And if we keep driving it home, eventually I think restrictions on it might happen in a large majority of states.

    They were “hiding” the issue of  late term abortions behind the legal precedent that governed all abortions. The accusation was that to attack one type of abortion was to attack Roe itself and thereby undermine all.  Now that Roe is gone, late term abortions can be focused upon without that type of obfuscation.

    • #80
  21. Samuel Block Support
    Samuel Block
    @SamuelBlock

    I do wonder if conservatives have the patience to do the irritatingly hard work of winning over agnostics (for starters) and eventually pro-abortion citizens one by one. It’s a guttery job, at least that’s been my experience. On the other hand I didn’t feel so good when I cast my first vote for Donald Trump, but sometimes the nasty fight has to happen now.

    Maybe it was imprudent. Cat’s outta the bag, though. Let’s just be sure to win.  

    • #81
  22. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Samuel Block (View Comment):
    On the other hand I didn’t feel so good when I cast my first vote for Donald Trump,

    I had absolutely no qualms about voting against Felony. It was similar to what Dennis Prager says about administering capital punishment to a heinous murderer and then going out afterward for a nice mutton, lettuce, and tomato sandwich. . .

    • #82
  23. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    BastiatJunior (View Comment):

    The Battle of Midway was a turning point in the Pacific Theater of WWII. It was indeed a victory, but the war was far from over. There was a tremendous amount of bloodshed still ahead.

    The battle for Life had just been elevated to a new level, and a new kind of war is just beginning. This is phase II of the fight for Life.

    Fasten your seatbelt.

    The tragedy is that we see it as a battle for life and death, and they see it as a battle for convenience and self-indulgence. It has nothing to do with rights. Thanks, BJ.

    Fantastic comments!

    • #83
  24. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    W Bob (View Comment):

    Unsk (View Comment):

    Roe recognized the Right to Life with the it’s ban on third trimester abortions. It essentially recognizes that at the time of fetal viability – then the beginning roughly the third trimester- the fetus had an equal right to Life as the rest of us, because from at least from my point of view, the Equal Protection Clause protects those yet unborn babies whose age and viability is the same as those being born of the same age. How can one fetus that ‘s let’s say 20 weeks be born and another be murdered of the same age?

    It didn’t ban any abortions. Technically it left open that states could restrict abortion after viability, but if I’m not mistaken, the jurisprudence that developed thereafter made it effectively impossible to do so. As a result, attempts to outlaw late term abortions were routinely overturned. Abortion on demand until the moment of birth has been the law of the land. There was no point in trying to restrict even only late term abortions, because the same legal precedent that governed early term abortions governed all others.

    Until now. By sweeping away Roe and all post Roe restrictions on state abortion limits, I think we may very well eventually see many states that aren’t among the 26 that are about to restrict it actually enact some restrictions themselves, even if only on late term abortions. This will depend upon robust pro-life lobbying and education. In the end, how do you defend late term elective abortion? You can’t. And if we keep driving it home, eventually I think restrictions on it might happen in a large majority of states.

    They were “hiding” the issue of late term abortions behind the legal precedent that governed all abortions. The accusation was that to attack one type of abortion was to attack Roe itself and thereby undermine all. Now that Roe is gone, late term abortions can be focused upon without that type of obfuscation.

    The difference is now they must argue with reason to defend killing for convenience.

    • #84
  25. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Samuel Block (View Comment):

    I do wonder if conservatives have the patience to do the irritatingly hard work of winning over agnostics (for starters) and eventually pro-abortion citizens one by one. It’s a guttery job, at least that’s been my experience. On the other hand I didn’t feel so good when I cast my first vote for Donald Trump, but sometimes the nasty fight has to happen now.

    Maybe it was imprudent. Cat’s outta the bag, though. Let’s just be sure to win.

    I am willing to bet they will win. There will always be those who can’t be won over.

    • #85
  26. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Samuel Block (View Comment):

    I do wonder if conservatives have the patience to do the irritatingly hard work of winning over agnostics (for starters) and eventually pro-abortion citizens one by one. It’s a guttery job, at least that’s been my experience. On the other hand I didn’t feel so good when I cast my first vote for Donald Trump, but sometimes the nasty fight has to happen now.

    Maybe it was imprudent. Cat’s outta the bag, though. Let’s just be sure to win.

    I am willing to bet they will win. There will always be those who can’t be won over.

    True but now that it is a live issue rather than one being controlled by the court the fight won’t end.  The prolife side will win some victories the proabort side will win others, but neither sides victories will be permanent.  We’ll still have to persuade and keep working at the law until we come to a stable equilibrium or technology takes the question out of our hands entirely.

    • #86
  27. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Samuel Block (View Comment):

    I do wonder if conservatives have the patience to do the irritatingly hard work of winning over agnostics (for starters) and eventually pro-abortion citizens one by one. It’s a guttery job, at least that’s been my experience. On the other hand I didn’t feel so good when I cast my first vote for Donald Trump, but sometimes the nasty fight has to happen now.

    Maybe it was imprudent. Cat’s outta the bag, though. Let’s just be sure to win.

    I am willing to bet they will win. There will always be those who can’t be won over.

    True but now that it is a live issue rather than one being controlled by the court the fight won’t end. The prolife side will win some victories the proabort side will win others, but neither sides victories will be permanent. We’ll still have to persuade and keep working at the law until we come to a stable equilibrium or technology takes the question out of our hands entirely.

    True, but I only have to fight in my Bible Belt state. California can’t impose its evil on us.

    • #87
  28. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Samuel Block (View Comment):

    I do wonder if conservatives have the patience to do the irritatingly hard work of winning over agnostics (for starters) and eventually pro-abortion citizens one by one. It’s a guttery job, at least that’s been my experience. On the other hand I didn’t feel so good when I cast my first vote for Donald Trump, but sometimes the nasty fight has to happen now.

    Maybe it was imprudent. Cat’s outta the bag, though. Let’s just be sure to win.

    I am willing to bet they will win. There will always be those who can’t be won over.

    True but now that it is a live issue rather than one being controlled by the court the fight won’t end. The prolife side will win some victories the proabort side will win others, but neither sides victories will be permanent. We’ll still have to persuade and keep working at the law until we come to a stable equilibrium or technology takes the question out of our hands entirely.

    True, but I only have to fight in my Bible Belt state. California can’t impose its evil on us.

    I hope not.  There are some who will try to go down the National standard route.  I don’t think they will have the support at this juncture but we’ll need to be on the lookout for that.  I could easily see feckless Republicans convincing themselves they need to “do something” again.  I thought they had learned their lesson about trusting the media, but apparently the are willfully unteachable on this subject.  It isn’t clear that would be constitutional but the Supreme Court might not have the appetite for going at that again so soon.

    • #88
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