Roe v. Wade is Overturned: Why am I Not Happy?

 

In every war, there are tragedies and victories. We tend to look at the final result, but the victories can be temporary and fragile, and the tragedies can be devastating. As a result, I’m having trouble finding a way to embrace the entire picture of the SCOTUS decision.

Yes, the victories are obvious to me. There is so much to celebrate and appreciate. But I feel overwhelmed by the many losses that have already been endured, and the many we could face:

So many millions of babies have died.

A kind of narcissism has flourished in the face of women’s desires.

Families have been damaged by the choices to abort.

Men have become second-class citizens, often having no choice in the decision.

Women have been wounded after the fact, later realizing they killed a child.

And looking ahead, even more losses:

Corrupt companies will finance travel for women who choose to abort.

Violence could erupt as people refuse to accept justice and decide to destroy businesses, homes and communities.

Local governments will enact laws that allow abortion to flourish.

 

And I could add many more negative outcomes.

 

I want to rejoice.

I want to thank G-d and the justices for their wisdom.

But it’s difficult.

Maybe I need to look to my own humility in the face of this dilemma.

 

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  1. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    I’m old enough to remember the Bork nomination and how the Democrat controlled Senate demonized Bork so that they could protect abortion on demand.  So, I think it is a huge win for conservatives to see Roe v Wade overturned.  

    I give credit to the Federalist society, a group that presented to GOP presidents a pool of constitutionalist judges they could choose from who would stop reading “prenumbras” and “emanations” into the constitution. 

    • #31
  2. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Unsk (View Comment):
    To say that   Life begins at Conception, while pleasing the very moral,  would clearly impose a religious belief on those who feel otherwise.

    Scientists say the same thing. There is life present from conception onward. Life at birth but not before is a weird superstition of convenience.

    • #32
  3. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Percival (View Comment):

    Unsk (View Comment):
    To say that Life begins at Conception, while pleasing the very moral, would clearly impose a religious belief on those who feel otherwise.

    Scientists say the same thing. There is life present from conception onward. Life at birth but not before is a weird superstition of convenience.

    Yes, scientists agree (over 90%!) that if it’s growing, it’s alive, and if its parents are human, it’s human. In other words, human life begins at conception. It’s really rather obvious and undeniable, since every single person debating the issue began as a blastocyst in his or her mother’s womb.

    • #33
  4. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Unsk (View Comment):

    And then there is the ” Rreedom of Religion”.  This right, I’m afraid  swings both ways. While Catholics, certain Protestants and Jews have the right to believe that  Life begins at conception, which morally I agree with, others in their beliefs have the right to believe otherwise.  While this idea that we must respect religious beliefs other than our own,   may irk the hell out of very moral people, one has to consider that the  Freedom of Religion is and always has been  a compromise intended so that the moral beliefs of all were to be respected by the State, and that our nation would not dive un-necessarily into the calamitous religious wars of the 16 th, 17th and 18th centuries that killed millions.  To say that   Life begins at Conception, while pleasing the very moral,  would clearly impose a religious belief on those who feel otherwise. On the other hand,  this decision clearly imposes on those who believe that Life begins at Conception, or something like that,  in those very Blue States like mine, a religious conviction that Life only begins at birth or perhaps even later; a full throttled rejection of their religion beliefs and their Freedom of Religion.

    Leaving slavery up to the states was a compromise, too.   How dare those abolitionists impose their religious beliefs about the immorality of slavery on Southerners whose preachers assured them that God and the Bible approved of slavery!

    • #34
  5. I Walton Member
    I Walton
    @IWalton

    Every unambiguous decisions is good and all of them will be opposed.   We’re fighting a terminal battle, so be happy with every victory.

    • #35
  6. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    And so it begins.  This is not the end, just the beginning.  The question is beginning of what.  Today I saw black bloc moving with purpose on the streets as I drove down the road.  Something I have not seen since the BLM riots.  Today I dine with friends.  All the men were CCW again. Something I have not seen since the BLM riots.  The Left will not allow the Right to win.  More so because the Right’s cause is just.  So the Right must yield or there will be blood.  But the Right is weary of yielding.  Eventually it will understand that it will have to turn and make a stand.  For in the end the Right understands that the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time.  The blood price paid to make it thrive.   So I am sad because we may be at the beginning of this and I am glad because we may be at the beginning of this.

    • #36
  7. Foghorn Inactive
    Foghorn
    @Dave Rogers

    Susan, I can’t argue with anything you have said. You are absolutely right in all of it but I just can’t leave it there. I still have to believe that we can make a difference even if it helps just one.  I’m not called to do it all but I am called to do something. 

    Remember the previous post about prayer. Why do you still do that daily? There is hope there. I have the same hope here.

    Stay the course sister, even your writing here makes a difference and I wouldn’t want to see you stop.

    • #37
  8. Ansonia Member
    Ansonia
    @Ansonia

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    As I say to my kids who’ve had their fair share of struggles: don’t let worries about tomorrow ruin today. It’s a great day!! On many different levels (moral, legal, constitutional. . .)

    I’m still full of wonder at it. I never thought this day would come.

    • #38
  9. Cassandro Coolidge
    Cassandro
    @Flicker

    Ansonia (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    As I say to my kids who’ve had their fair share of struggles: don’t let worries about tomorrow ruin today. It’s a great day!! On many different levels (moral, legal, constitutional. . .)

    I’m still full of wonder at it. I never thought this day would come.

    We’ve been waiting for years.

    • #39
  10. Dotorimuk Coolidge
    Dotorimuk
    @Dotorimuk

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    This is a really fascinating profile in the Washington Post of all places, of a young Texas teen who got pregnant, was planning on an abortion before the Texas law would prevent her, and upon seeing the ultrasound (and discovering she was carrying twins), completely changed her mind. It is honest about the struggles she and her boyfriend face as teenagers suddenly becoming parents, but it is ultimately a celebration of babies and of life.

    And it was published in the Washington Post!

     

    One of my co-workers and his wife are very involved in the pro-life movement. He told me today that something like 80-85% of women who are allowed to see an ultrasound, even as early as 8 weeks, do a 180 degree turn and decide not to abort. Which is why the pro-aborts want to keep women from seeing ultrasounds.

    There’s an uncharacteristically tough and realistic Korean drama on Netflix now called “Our Blues,” which I highly recommend. One of the storylines involves a kind of Romeo-Juliet high school valediction couple and what happens when he gets her pregnant, and EVERYONE wants them to abort the baby, even six months in, to preserve their academic status and university hopes. Then, they see the ultrasound.

     

    • #40
  11. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Susan Quinn:

    In every war, there are tragedies and victories. We tend to look at the final result, but the victories can be temporary and fragile, and the tragedies can be devastating….

    And looking ahead, even more losses:

    Corrupt companies will finance travel for women who choose to abort.

    Violence could erupt as people refuse to accept justice and decide to destroy businesses, homes and communities.

    Local governments will enact laws that allow abortion to flourish.

     

    And I could add many more negative outcomes.

     

    I want to rejoice.

    I want to thank G-d and the justices for their wisdom.

    But it’s difficult.

    Maybe I need to look to my own humility in the face of this dilemma.

     

    I think you’re either fearful of change – I get premonitions like that at moments of great inflection, more so when I was younger than now – or you’re letting things you cannot change overwhelm you. You cannot change any of those things. Evil will always be a part of humanity. One needs the fortitude to stand up against it. The state of the country in respect to abortion cannot be worse than it was two days ago. No matter how things pan out it could not be worse. Don’t let the difficulties of achieving the perfect overwhelm your acceptance of the improvement. 

    • #41
  12. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    What if people stop making so many babies they don’t want?

    Now there’s a novel idea!

    Too bad there are no birth control methods readily available.  Oh wait . . .

    • #42
  13. David Carroll Thatcher
    David Carroll
    @DavidCarroll

    I share Susan’s reticence over the decision. Yes, it was a good decision in many ways. The case sent a strong message about federalism which I hope is the beginning of a trend in the Supreme Court. I am happy about the decision, but I do not feel joy.

    I feel sad. I feel sad that Roe v. Wade was ever decided and so many babies have died in the meantime. I feel sad for the pro-abortion protesters and their very real angst, even though I disagree with their positions. I feel sad that there are people in the world who think murdering babies, or at least babies-in-process, is morally justifiable.

    I understand the pain of an unexpected pregnancy, particularly in rape or incest cases. I understand the pain even when precautions have been taken but were ineffective. I even understand the unexpected pregnancy pain when caution had been thrown to the winds and pregnancy resulted.

    To me, the abortion debate always focused on a point of view. The pro-abortionists focus on the point of view of the unfortunate mother and her only.  The unwanted child may seriously disrupt the mother’s life nine months and beyond even if the child is put up for adoption.

    The antiabortion position focuses on the point of view of the child and concludes that the child’s right to live should supersede any discomfort, angst or hardship on the mother, because life is precious.

    Unfortunately, there is very little middle ground that anyone can consider once they are wedded to their point of view.

    Thus, I am sad that there is no reasonable compromise and of the debate is destined to continue.

    • #43
  14. Suspira Member
    Suspira
    @Suspira

    I know how you feel. I’m not elated. Dobbs is a good and just outcome, but the cultural upheaval will not be a good time. Already, friends are snarling at each other on social media. Anger—the emblematic feature of our age—is ramping up. That makes me sad. And the fighting has just begun.

    • #44
  15. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Susan, I do hope that you’ll be able to celebrate this victory.  It’s not the end of the war, but it is a great step forward.

    I share your trepidation.  I’m reminded of the recent vote in Ireland approving abortion, quite overwhelmingly if I recall correctly, about 2-1.  I remember seeing artwork depicting happy people celebrating their “right” to slaughter the unborn. 

    I remember being thankful that, in our country at least, this policy was forced upon us by a handful of SCOTUS Justices, and not expressly approved by the people.

    I remember thinking how harsh God’s judgment is likely to be on a nation that overwhelmingly chooses infanticide, and celebrates as if . . . well, as if someone just got married or had a baby.

    Now we are in a similar situation.  I do pray for mercy and repentance, rather than judgment.

    I looked at some pictures of the so-called protests against the Dobbs decision.  I see those people as horrid, ghoulish, even demonic.  It is difficult for me not to hate them.

    I also find it difficult to have a rational debate on the issue.  It feels a bit like having a debate with Hannibal Lecter over choice of cuisine.  To me, they seem to be completely in the grip of Satan, and they seem to go back and forth between gleefulness and self-righteousness.  

    Still, Dobbs corrected a dreadful error and stain on our Constitution.  That is worth celebrating.

    • #45
  16. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Susan, I do hope that you’ll be able to celebrate this victory. It’s not the end of the war, but it is a great step forward.

    I share your trepidation. I’m reminded of the recent vote in Ireland approving abortion, quite overwhelmingly if I recall correctly, about 2-1. I remember seeing artwork depicting happy people celebrating their “right” to slaughter the unborn.

    It was the 36th Amendment to the Irish Constitution, often described as the repeal of the 8th Amendment to the Irish Constitution.  

    The referendum passed by a vote of 1,429,981 (yes) to 723,632 (no), a vote of 66.4 percent (yes) to 33.6 percent (no).

    The pro-abortion forces used the death of Savita Halappanavar to propagandize people into voting for the amendment.  Savita was a 30 year old dentist who immigrated with her parent to Ireland from India.  She was pregnant and started having back pain.  She was in a hospital when she discussed the possibility of having an abortion with a physician once it appeared highly likely that she would suffer a miscarriage.  

    But the abortion request was denied because there was a detectable fetal heartbeat.  She suffered cardiac arrest and died of sepsis.  

    Posters of Savita Halappanavar were plastered everywhere during the campaign to repeal the 8th Amendment.  

    • #46
  17. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    I live in Indianapolis, which is located in Marion County.  

    Marion County Prosecutor Ryan Mears announced Friday his office will not prosecute abortion-related cases if Republicans in the state legislature seek to criminalize the procedure following the U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling that overturns abortion rights.

    The pushback from Indianapolis Democrats like Mears and the Indiana Democratic Party represents yet another schism between Democrat-dominated Marion County and the Statehouse, where Republicans are in the supermajority.

    So, the County Prosecutor is essentially saying that he won’t do his job.  

    • #47
  18. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    HeavyWater (View Comment):
    Marion County Prosecutor Ryan Mears announced Friday his office will not prosecute abortion-related cases if Republicans in the state legislature seek to criminalize the procedure following the U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling that overturns abortion rights.

    Another wannabe insurrectionist. 

    • #48
  19. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Perhaps I am more upbeat about this decision than some others here because my focus is more on the integrity of our constitutional government than on the specifics of state-by-state abortion law. From the perspective of constitutional governance, I think this was a huge win, correcting perhaps the most egregious abuse of judicial authority of my lifetime and doing so in a dramatic and unambiguous way.

    The Constitution is stronger today than it was a week ago. I choose to call that a win.

    Perhaps another part of it is that I am in favor of limited legal abortion. I’m perfectly willing to see some states outlaw abortion entirely; I regret that some states (such as my own) ghoulishly embrace abortion to an extent I consider indefensible. I expect we will see a gradual leveling across the nation, with the extremes being slightly truncated as pro- and anti- forces focus their attention on various battleground states.

    Because I consider abortion one of the great hard questions (and, yes, I know many do not see it that way), I welcome the debate. Above all, I applaud the Court for re-asserting the Constitution.

    • #49
  20. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Above all, I applaud the Court for re-asserting the Constitution.

    I do too, although you and I likely disagree on the difficulty of the issue (every human life begins at conception), but probably not the seriousness of it. 

    • #50
  21. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Above all, I applaud the Court for re-asserting the Constitution.

    I do too, although you and I likely disagree on the difficulty of the issue (every human life begins at conception), but probably not the seriousness of it.

    I recently read about an oncologist who wrote on her social media account that some pregnant woman she had as patients needed to get an abortion to allow for safe treatment of their cancer.  I suppose I can see how that particular case might be an “edge case.”

    • #51
  22. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Above all, I applaud the Court for re-asserting the Constitution.

    I do too, although you and I likely disagree on the difficulty of the issue (every human life begins at conception), but probably not the seriousness of it.

    WC, I do think every human life begins at conception. Where you and I likely disagree is about what rights should appropriately be guaranteed that human life at particular stages in its development. I know that seems like an unambiguous question to some people, and I respect that. However, the reality is that a lot of decent and thoughtful people hold significantly differing views on the topic. I think the best we can hope for is an open and respectful discussion, with the final determination left to the people to decide at the state level.

    • #52
  23. Stina Inactive
    Stina
    @CM

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Above all, I applaud the Court for re-asserting the Constitution.

    I do too, although you and I likely disagree on the difficulty of the issue (every human life begins at conception), but probably not the seriousness of it.

    I recently read about an oncologist who wrote on her social media account that some pregnant woman needed to get an abortion to allow for safe treatment of their cancer. I suppose I can see how that particular case might be an “edge case.”

    This is so frustrating and I really appreciated the Irish pre legal abortion reasoning on this subject.

    Life saving care is life saving care. When dealing with pregnant women, you don’t go in with the goal of killing a human to save another. You go in with the intention to save both lives, but sometimes that isn’t possible.

    My mother thought she was very very sick while pregnant with my sister. She had no idea she was pregnant and no one knew what hyperemesis gravidarum was at the time. She underwent so many tests and procedures that should have killed my sister in an attempt to diagnose and somehow they never caught the pregnancy. How insane is that?

    My mother was pressured into aborting but she decided not to. My sister is now a police officer with her own little girl.

    Abortion is not necessary to save the life of a mom. But sometimes, life giving care for the mom ends up with a dead baby. But that isn’t guaranteed and putting it in the same category as abortion – a procedure whose goal is a dead baby- muddies the water and makes the conversation less intellectually honest.

    • #53
  24. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Above all, I applaud the Court for re-asserting the Constitution.

    I do too, although you and I likely disagree on the difficulty of the issue (every human life begins at conception), but probably not the seriousness of it.

    I recently read about an oncologist who wrote on her social media account that some pregnant woman needed to get an abortion to allow for safe treatment of their cancer. I suppose I can see how that particular case might be an “edge case.”

    Catholics consider women who forgo treatment to give birth to their children as candidates for sainthood. In fact, the daughter of one such woman recently attended her mother’s beatification(?).

    We’re all going to die from something. What matters is how we live in the time we have. Giving life is the highest calling.

    • #54
  25. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):
    Giving life is the highest calling.

    I agree with that.

    • #55
  26. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):
    Giving life is the highest calling.

    I agree with that.

    Henry, 

    How would you deal with a situation where an oncologist recommends that a pregnant woman get an abortion so that she can go through the chemotherapy and radiation treatment recommended to treat her cancer?  

    Is that a case where you would allow an abortion to occur?  Or no?

    • #56
  27. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Above all, I applaud the Court for re-asserting the Constitution.

    I do too, although you and I likely disagree on the difficulty of the issue (every human life begins at conception), but probably not the seriousness of it.

    WC, I do think every human life begins at conception. Where you and I likely disagree is about what rights should appropriately be guaranteed that human life at particular stages in its development. I know that seems like an unambiguous question to some people, and I respect that. However, the reality is that a lot of decent and thoughtful people hold significantly differing views on the topic. I think the best we can hope for is an open and respectful discussion, with the final determination left to the people to decide at the state level.

    I understand that. I just don’t think it’s all that negotiable, even among decent, thoughtful people. Every one of these people discussing the issue was once a blastocyst in his or her mother’s womb. Every conceived child is unique and irreplaceable, not to mention innocent of the circumstances of his or her conception. Abortion insists on the “right” of more developed, independent people to kill the less developed, dependent and guiltless. This cannot end well for either individuals or society. 

    It’s the attitude that “she gets to kill her child to solve her problems” (as long as it’s early in the child’s development?) that is so destructive to our moral fabric. No one should get to kill innocents because she might have to make sacrifices and suffer a little. To live is to suffer. What you do with it makes all the difference in your character (not to mention your eternal disposition). 

    • #57
  28. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):
    Giving life is the highest calling.

    I agree with that.

    Henry,

    How would you deal with a situation where an oncologist recommends that a pregnant woman get an abortion so that she can go through the chemotherapy and radiation treatment recommended to treat her cancer?

    Is that a case where you would allow an abortion to occur? Or no?

    It would depend on the particulars, Deut. If she were three weeks pregnant, I’d allow it. If she were 30 weeks pregnant, I wouldn’t. Somewhere between those extremes I’d like to see a line drawn.

    • #58
  29. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    David Carroll (View Comment):

    To me, the abortion debate always focused on a point of view. The pro-abortionists focus on the point of view of the unfortunate mother and her only.  The unwanted child may seriously disrupt the mother’s life nine months and beyond even if the child is put up for adoption.

    The antiabortion position focuses on the point of view of the child and concludes that the child’s right to live should supersede any discomfort, angst or hardship on the mother, because life is precious.

     

    There are also radically different views about the meaning and purpose of sex.  One side views sex as sacred precisely because it is intrinsically linked to reproduction, and therefore something best reserved for marriage.  The other side views sex as a means to express one’s sexual identity, with pregnancy as a completely optional add-on.

    There’s a world of difference between an unplanned pregnancy within a marriage (or at least a committed long-term relationship) vs. a crisis pregnancy resulting from a casual hookup.  Eliminating abortion as backup birth control would force many people to reconsider their attitudes towards casual sex, which potentially undermines the entire Sexual Revolution.

    • #59
  30. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):
    Giving life is the highest calling.

    I agree with that.

    Henry,

    How would you deal with a situation where an oncologist recommends that a pregnant woman get an abortion so that she can go through the chemotherapy and radiation treatment recommended to treat her cancer?

    Is that a case where you would allow an abortion to occur? Or no?

    It would depend on the particulars, Deut. If she were three weeks pregnant, I’d allow it. If she were 30 weeks pregnant, I wouldn’t. Somewhere between those extremes I’d like to see a line drawn.

    I’ve read about premature births with survival. Is there an option for a premature Caesarian section after fetal viability, or whatever the proper medical term is?  

    • #60
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