Nothing Is Ever Going Back to Normal

 

National Review — after previously offering that Drag Queen Story Hour was a “blessing of liberty”  and railing against Florida Governor Ron de Santis for modest efforts at pushing back against the left — finds itself shocked… shockedat the metastasizing phenomenon of leftists foisting drag shows (featuring men strutting pretending to be women as if women were clown-prostitutes) on children. “Oh, my heck!” they proclaim. “Who could have foreseen that if we indulged the left in their depravity they would push it even further?

It’s understandable why (Bush) Republicans and (Atlantic) Conservatives would prefer not to fight the culture wars. It’s just not gentlemanly/ladylike to make a big fuss about leftists sexualizing children. It’s icky and Trumpy to confront the left about their cultural ambitions and their use of every lever of Government to promote them.  And because they don’t want to fight, it’s very easy to succumb to denialism. “Yes, sure, there are a few crazies on the fringe of the left, but most of them don’t want to get gay with kids. And if we just calmed down and found some common ground we could get back to normal. Hey, why are those people over there making those kids shove cash in that transvestite’s thong?”

In Defense of Political Escalation,” Abigail Shrier makes the eminently logical point that the left has no intention of ending the culture wars, or even a ceasefire.

Those waiting on the mythical pendulum to “swing back,” should stop holding their breath. The gender activists are True Believers, akin to jihadists: no amount of reasoning diminishes their resolve, no appeal to data brings them pause, no urge to consider the sanctity of American liberties will convince them to cool it.

While conservatives have been waiting for things to calm down and get back to normal, and fretting that “we oughtn’t do things that are at odds with our precious principles,” the left have seized not just Government power, but also academic power, media power, and even corporate power which they eagerly wield against anyone who dissents from Woke ideology.

If the woke continue to gain ground, where will we skeptics go to educate our children, transact commerce, find fair adjudication of our custody disputes? Where will we publish when not only the New York Times has a “gender director”—when every publication does?

That is the worry that likely motivates DeSantis, the first politician to “weaponize” the Florida tax code. He brought its hammer down on Disney to punish that one company for using its immense corporate coffers to lobby against parents’ rights in Florida. In principle, it’s a move I’m leery of. (And in the case of sending CPS after moms and dads who take their kids to drag shows, it’s a move I would oppose.)

But the gist of this stratagem—escalation—may be necessary. Indeed, it already seems to be working. Playing offense, even raising the stakes, may be the only means of achieving a much-needed truce. I’m out of better ideas. How about you?

Yeah, if there is another way to bring the culture back to plumb, I would be interested to hear it. But pundits writing hand-wringing articles in magazines that are only read by other pundits doesn’t seem like an effective solution to me.

And it’s not just the gender bending. The left will never give up on CRT. They will never give up on Climate Totalitarianism. They will never, despite John Cornyn’s delusions,  give up on zero-tolerance gun control.

They don’t want to make a deal; they want our complete submission.

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  1. AMD Texas Coolidge
    AMD Texas
    @DarinJohnson

    Jager (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Justin Other Lawyer (View Comment):

    Perhaps. But it doesn’t necessarily make him wrong. I get it—his style isn’t for everyone. I have relatives who absolutely hated Rush Limbaugh—based almost entirely on his tone. Didn’t matter what he said, they didn’t want to hear it. KDW seems to have the “gift” with some people.

    It’s the punching down, like I said. You know who else seems to relish punching down these days? Jonah Goldberg.

     

    It is a bit too glib. Have a substandard high school education, No skills and live in a place where there are no jobs.
    Simple!

    Move to a more expensive place where your substandard education and lack of skill can get you a minimum wage type job.

    Yep and if you stay at that minimum wage job for awhile maybe you can get some of those skills you lack. That actually happens a whole lot more often than you seem to be willing to believe.

    • #241
  2. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Justin Other Lawyer (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Justin Other Lawyer (View Comment):

    Perhaps. But it doesn’t necessarily make him wrong. I get it—his style isn’t for everyone. I have relatives who absolutely hated Rush Limbaugh—based almost entirely on his tone. Didn’t matter what he said, they didn’t want to hear it. KDW seems to have the “gift” with some people.

    It’s the punching down, like I said. You know who else seems to relish punching down these days? Jonah Goldberg.

    I don’t care who they are; I’m always going to side with the poor and powerless against these beltway-dwellers.

    I guess I see it differently (and believe me, I’m not writing from a position of financial comfort). KDW is literally not a beltway dweller, and he never struck me as much of an elitist. He “punches” fellow “journalists” the most.

    Goldberg? Maybe a little more-so, but I don’t know. I don’t seem to recall Goldberg writing things critical of the poor.

    Perhaps this is one place you and I won’t see eye to eye.

    Jonah may not punch down to the poor, but he like many in his circles etc, seem to assume most people have more financial freedom than they really do; maybe just because HE does and he can’t believe anyone else doesn’t.  Or he may think it but can’t really understand it.

    Also sometimes take note of how casually he and others like John Podhoretz talk about trips to Europe, going to Broadway shows, sending kids to expensive summer camps…

    • #242
  3. Jager Coolidge
    Jager
    @Jager

    AMD Texas (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Justin Other Lawyer (View Comment):

    Perhaps. But it doesn’t necessarily make him wrong. I get it—his style isn’t for everyone. I have relatives who absolutely hated Rush Limbaugh—based almost entirely on his tone. Didn’t matter what he said, they didn’t want to hear it. KDW seems to have the “gift” with some people.

    It’s the punching down, like I said. You know who else seems to relish punching down these days? Jonah Goldberg.

     

    It is a bit too glib. Have a substandard high school education, No skills and live in a place where there are no jobs.
    Simple!

    Move to a more expensive place where your substandard education and lack of skill can get you a minimum wage type job.

    Yep and if you stay at that minimum wage job for awhile maybe you can get some of those skills you lack. That actually happens a whole lot more often than you seem to be willing to believe.

    I absolutely believe it. 
    That said what is a good future move for 18-20 year old, doesn’t necessarily work for a 35 year old with a wife and kids. 

    • #243
  4. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Jager (View Comment):

    AMD Texas (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Justin Other Lawyer (View Comment):

    Perhaps. But it doesn’t necessarily make him wrong. I get it—his style isn’t for everyone. I have relatives who absolutely hated Rush Limbaugh—based almost entirely on his tone. Didn’t matter what he said, they didn’t want to hear it. KDW seems to have the “gift” with some people.

    It’s the punching down, like I said. You know who else seems to relish punching down these days? Jonah Goldberg.

     

    It is a bit too glib. Have a substandard high school education, No skills and live in a place where there are no jobs.
    Simple!

    Move to a more expensive place where your substandard education and lack of skill can get you a minimum wage type job.

    Yep and if you stay at that minimum wage job for awhile maybe you can get some of those skills you lack. That actually happens a whole lot more often than you seem to be willing to believe.

    I absolutely believe it.
    That said what is a good future move for 18-20 year old, doesn’t necessarily work for a 35 year old with a wife and kids.

    There are other options too.  After a well-paying time in business computer programming, I now have to live off disability.  But it’s the same amount no matter where I live, so I’m actually able to own a home with it because I don’t think I have to live in San Francisco.  Or Seattle.  etc.  And in fact, the small town where I live now, welcomes my financial input.

    • #244
  5. Headedwest Coolidge
    Headedwest
    @Headedwest

    AMD Texas (View Comment):
    Yep and if you stay at that minimum wage job for awhile maybe you can get some of those skills you lack. That actually happens a whole lot more often than you seem to be willing to believe.

    And if you move from a place where the cost of living is very low to a prosperous area with high rents, how do you survive to the point where you acquire those skills?

    And how do your spouse and children cope with moving from a place that they know as home to a faceless city where you have no family or friends?

    • #245
  6. HeavyWater Reagan
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Jager (View Comment):

    I absolutely believe it.
    That said what is a good future move for 18-20 year old, doesn’t necessarily work for a 35 year old with a wife and kids.

    It sounds like you are saying that people don’t have a responsibility to work and pay their own expenses rather than live off of society.  I think Bernie Sanders would agree with much of what you are saying here.

    • #246
  7. Headedwest Coolidge
    Headedwest
    @Headedwest

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):

    I absolutely believe it.
    That said what is a good future move for 18-20 year old, doesn’t necessarily work for a 35 year old with a wife and kids.

    It sounds like you are saying that people don’t have a responsibility to work and pay their own expenses rather than live off of society. I think Bernie Sanders would agree with much of what you are saying here.

    Cheap shot.

    • #247
  8. Painter Jean Member
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):
    There’s something else going on here, an undercurrent of anti-snobbery snobbery: . . .

    Did you just . . . advocate for snobbery?

     

    No, quite the opposite. I often hear, in criticisms of National Review, that they’re somehow posh and snobby, but I don’t know where that comes from other than the kind of snobbery that thinks that those who use reason and write well are snobs.

    people who don’t move deserve to die?

    Awwww, did Kevin Williamson hurt your feels? How dare someone suggest people go to where the jobs are instead of waiting for government handouts……..

    Snobbery…

    How dare someone question the wisdom of familial isolation?

    Sometimes you have to move to where the work is, not just sit at home and collect food stamps.

    Again, isolating people from family and community is not good. If your economic policies depend on people moving far from their families to get service jobs in big cities, there is something wrong with the policies.

    And there were.

    People who are far removed from family are more dependent on government assistance because their family isn’t around. And service industry jobs still use government assistance.

    Really? My ancestors came from Ireland. They moved because they needed to find a place where they could have opportunities. They had a lot tougher time of it than do modern Americans as no one gave them a welfare check.

    When coming to the US, members of different ethnic groups tended to group together also in the US. So, not a good comparison.

    So, you’re saying that a white guy in a dying Appalachian town, living on food stamps, can’t find other white guys to bond with in other places in the US that do have job opportunities?

    Not all white people are the same, as an Irish person should certainly understand.

    True enough, but still it ought to be possible to find community in this large and diverse country.

    The left has been trying to destroy community for a long time, and to a large extent they have succeeded. Part of the “long march” etc.

    I don’t disagree.

    But your “solutions” often seem to amount to going along, rather than fighting, resisting, and even refusing to do what they want.

    Hardly. I’m all for fighting and resisting when fighting and resisting is the best way to advance one’s desired outcome.

    • #248
  9. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):
    There’s something else going on here, an undercurrent of anti-snobbery snobbery: . . .

    Did you just . . . advocate for snobbery?

     

    No, quite the opposite. I often hear, in criticisms of National Review, that they’re somehow posh and snobby, but I don’t know where that comes from other than the kind of snobbery that thinks that those who use reason and write well are snobs.

    people who don’t move deserve to die?

    Awwww, did Kevin Williamson hurt your feels? How dare someone suggest people go to where the jobs are instead of waiting for government handouts……..

    Snobbery…

    How dare someone question the wisdom of familial isolation?

    Sometimes you have to move to where the work is, not just sit at home and collect food stamps.

    Again, isolating people from family and community is not good. If your economic policies depend on people moving far from their families to get service jobs in big cities, there is something wrong with the policies.

    And there were.

    People who are far removed from family are more dependent on government assistance because their family isn’t around. And service industry jobs still use government assistance.

    Really? My ancestors came from Ireland. They moved because they needed to find a place where they could have opportunities. They had a lot tougher time of it than do modern Americans as no one gave them a welfare check.

    When coming to the US, members of different ethnic groups tended to group together also in the US. So, not a good comparison.

    So, you’re saying that a white guy in a dying Appalachian town, living on food stamps, can’t find other white guys to bond with in other places in the US that do have job opportunities?

    Not all white people are the same, as an Irish person should certainly understand.

    True enough, but still it ought to be possible to find community in this large and diverse country.

    The left has been trying to destroy community for a long time, and to a large extent they have succeeded. Part of the “long march” etc.

    I don’t disagree.

    But your “solutions” often seem to amount to going along, rather than fighting, resisting, and even refusing to do what they want.

    Hardly. I’m all for fighting and resisting when fighting and resisting is the best way to advance one’s desired outcome.

    So then the problem may be your standards for deciding when fighting and resisting are worthwhile.

    • #249
  10. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    This is what I’m talking about. The NR readers think the only legitimate argument to dying towns is they need to move or die.

    The economic policy discussion isn’t allowed by them. They are going to double and triple down on their views and refuse to even consider that maybe the economic policies are contributory and while moving is a part of life, maybe we could look into seeing if our policies are making that movement a social disaster and not just a normal part of life.

    Conservatism, Inc. refuses to acknowledge their own part in this economic disaster.

     

    I’ll say again, at least you are admitting your populism is not conservatism.  

    • #250
  11. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    That’s at least twice now where participants in this thread have used welfare recipient as a slur. Attacking poor people is really not a good look, guys.

    Welfare recipient and “poor person” are not the same thing Drew.  

    • #251
  12. DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    This is what I’m talking about. The NR readers think the only legitimate argument to dying towns is they need to move or die.

    The economic policy discussion isn’t allowed by them. They are going to double and triple down on their views and refuse to even consider that maybe the economic policies are contributory and while moving is a part of life, maybe we could look into seeing if our policies are making that movement a social disaster and not just a normal part of life.

    Conservatism, Inc. refuses to acknowledge their own part in this economic disaster.

    I’ll say again, at least you are admitting your populism is not conservatism.

    “We the people” is a statement of populism. Government “of the people, by the people, for the people” is a populist government.

    So, if you hate that, what’s your preference? Oligarchy?

    • #252
  13. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):
    There’s something else going on here, an undercurrent of anti-snobbery snobbery: . . .

    Did you just . . . advocate for snobbery?

     

    No, quite the opposite. I often hear, in criticisms of National Review, that they’re somehow posh and snobby, but I don’t know where that comes from other than the kind of snobbery that thinks that those who use reason and write well are snobs.

    people who don’t move deserve to die?

    Awwww, did Kevin Williamson hurt your feels? How dare someone suggest people go to where the jobs are instead of waiting for government handouts……..

    Snobbery…

    How dare someone question the wisdom of familial isolation?

    Sometimes you have to move to where the work is, not just sit at home and collect food stamps.

    Again, isolating people from family and community is not good. If your economic policies depend on people moving far from their families to get service jobs in big cities, there is something wrong with the policies.

    And there were.

    People who are far removed from family are more dependent on government assistance because their family isn’t around. And service industry jobs still use government assistance.

    Really? My ancestors came from Ireland. They moved because they needed to find a place where they could have opportunities. They had a lot tougher time of it than do modern Americans as no one gave them a welfare check.

    When coming to the US, members of different ethnic groups tended to group together also in the US. So, not a good comparison.

    So, you’re saying that a white guy in a dying Appalachian town, living on food stamps, can’t find other white guys to bond with in other places in the US that do have job opportunities?

    Exactly….in the south for decades men left their families to go to cities like Detroit to work.  Heck people went West for the opportunity to make their own way.  

    • #253
  14. DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    That’s at least twice now where participants in this thread have used welfare recipient as a slur. Attacking poor people is really not a good look, guys.

    Welfare recipient and “poor person” are not the same thing Drew.

    I know. The government hands out “welfare” to all their wealthy cronies.

    • #254
  15. DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):

    I absolutely believe it.
    That said what is a good future move for 18-20 year old, doesn’t necessarily work for a 35 year old with a wife and kids.

    It sounds like you are saying that people don’t have a responsibility to work and pay their own expenses rather than live off of society. I think Bernie Sanders would agree with much of what you are saying here.

    Cheap shot.

    And an illogical straw man argument.

    • #255
  16. Headedwest Coolidge
    Headedwest
    @Headedwest

    Justin Other Lawyer (View Comment):
    I never read KDW as saying everyone should get out of Appalachia.  He researched the level of dysfunction and governmental dependency and concluded that it would be better for many to leave where there are jobs.

    Research? Really? I doubt that. He’s a writer, not a researcher.

    I think it all stems from the fact that he hates where he came from.

    • #256
  17. Manny Member
    Manny
    @Manny

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):
    I expect to receive blowback for stating this. But we’re adults; we should understand this and encourage it.

    It makes for good clicks to yarp about NR Groomers and imagine the entire enterprise as some exercise in sclerotic Beltway GOP capitulation designed to ensure cocktail-party invites. Interesting journals are heterodox.

    Yeah, but it’s unquestionable that NR is no longer the stalwart conservative magazine it once was.  There is a pattern of acquiescing on the cultural issues.  Sure it’s the writer’s who write in their freedom.  But it’s NR that hires the writers in the first place.  With all the conservative outlets around, I think they are trying to find a particular niche, one where they have a softer stance on cultural issues, especially concerning homosexuality.  In my opinion they have completely sold out on homosexuality.

    • #257
  18. Manny Member
    Manny
    @Manny

    Stina (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    You are all forgetting an important fact: There wouldn’t be any Drag Queen Story Hour if there weren’t parents who brought their kids to those events. No one has forced this on anyone. Ditto for the grotesqueries at Pride parades – the parents are bringing kids to these events.

    Several officials have stated that drag queen shows should be part of public elementary education, thereby taking the parents out of the decision making.

    That doesn’t change the reality of what I just stated – parents are willingly and knowingly taking their kids to Drag Queen Story Hours and Pride parades.

    If there are local moves to put drag queen shows in schools, then parents have the option of getting involved and stopping it, or taking their kids out entirely if they can’t.

    People have the right to prevent this in their communities.

    For a devout Catholic, you sure are daft when it comes to cultural influence. I get French. He’s a personal God evangelical who things God’s proper place is in the church and in our hearts. But the Catholic Church has a far more comprehensive view of God, redemption, and sanctification. He isn’t just a personal God. And when his people go into the world and fight for what is right, cultures are just as redeemed as hearts are.

    we have a right to participate in the political process WITH our religious beliefs. Banning DQSH doesn’t change the hearts of people who are just going along for the ride. And those people exist. If the culture were shouting how great it is to be Catholic, they’d be showing up to the local cathedral, instead.

    Culture influences people. Not everyone thinks critically about what they are doing. Everyone is doing it. Take off the boundaries, and people meander past the border. That is typical herd mentality.

    Well said.  The Libertarian influence on conservatism has been a disaster for the conservative cause, and a disaster for the American culture.  

    • #258
  19. Manny Member
    Manny
    @Manny

    Victor Tango Kilo (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):
    NR gives its writers wide latitude, but such latitude is not infinite. Nor should it be.

    You seem to be saying that the editors limit the content of their magazine/website to points of view they approve.

    They don’t have the latitude to tell the writers what to write, but they do have the latitude to publish or not particular pieces.  If one of their writers became a flaming liberal, you don’t think NR would stop publishing their pieces?

    • #259
  20. Manny Member
    Manny
    @Manny

    Yes, just as Derb was removed for racism. The interested reader can read for themselves what Derb and Sobran actually wrote and decide whether the condemnations were justified. But it’s not really about whether they were justified or not, or whether one agrees with Derb or Sobran or not. It’s that NR finds Drag Queen Story hour a cultural activity about which reasonable people can disagree, while Derb’s “The Talk” column is so outrageous that he can never be allowed to write for NR again. Personally, I find Drag Queen Story hour a cultural activity that should be rejected out of hand, and any writer who treats it as something about which reasonable people can disagree should be purged from the roles.

    Exactly!  Spot on.  NR has the latitude to publish what they feel appropriate for their pages.  They specifically chose to publish drag queens.

    • #260
  21. Manny Member
    Manny
    @Manny

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Victor Tango Kilo (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):
    Banning DQSH doesn’t change the hearts of people who are just going along for the ride.

    Minstrel shows and dog fights were once considered acceptable forms of entertainment. How did that change and how can we apply that to Drag Shows? Bearing in mind, there was never a time when minstrel shows or dog fights were performed in schools as part of “cultural enrichment.”

    It begins when we start drawing equivalences between men putting on make-up to ridicule African-Americans and men putting on make-up to ridicule woman.

    Victor Tango Kilo (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):
    He’s largely just a short cut to describe a particular set of “principles” and policies.

    Yes, exactly. David French and National Review are a kind of synecdoche for flaccid, ineffectual, Bush-Republicanism and Conservatism, Inc.

    I would hardly call Kevin Williamson “flaccid”……

    I guess my question would be, if National Review isn’t a good conservative media outlet, what should conservatives read instead?

    It seems like whenever I go to the National Review website, they have several columns advocating for the right to life for the unborn, gun rights, school choice and so on. If you are going to persuade someone that National Review is actually a squishy-moderate media outlet, what media outlet exists that is better?

    I prefer The American Spectator, but they now have a pay wall I think.

    • #261
  22. Manny Member
    Manny
    @Manny

    Stina (View Comment):

    The point is that the original poster alleges that National Review had been soft on Drag Queen Story Hour, and now we have drag queens exposing themselves to children at Pride parades. I guess we were supposed to link those two. But National Review has never supported the idea, so cherished by the LGBTQ community

    For one, NR is being dumped on for failing to see the connection between French’s editorial of “blessing of liberty” and “how the hell did we get here???”

    NR is playing a game here.  It’s “No, I don’t support drag queens” but here’s a great article about it.”  It’s the sort of wink-wink that Fr. James Martin does with his pro gay agenda within the Catholic Church. If you ask him he supports the Catholic position on homosexuality, and yet he does whatever he can to undermine it. Same thing with NR.  They have lost credibility.  Somewhere way back in time on Ricochet you can probably find comments from me on how I lamented the decline of NR, especially since I LOVED them as a young man.  Perhaps I still lament it, but I’ve grown to despise what they have become.

    • #262
  23. Manny Member
    Manny
    @Manny

    Hartmann von Aue (View Comment):

    Repeat after me: Santorum was right, Dr. James Dobson was right, Michael Medved was right, anyone who was saying that “gay marriage” was a slippery slope, was right …only it was a precipice, not a slope.

    Absolutely!!!

    • #263
  24. Manny Member
    Manny
    @Manny

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    This is what I’m talking about. The NR readers think the only legitimate argument to dying towns is they need to move or die.

    The economic policy discussion isn’t allowed by them. They are going to double and triple down on their views and refuse to even consider that maybe the economic policies are contributory and while moving is a part of life, maybe we could look into seeing if our policies are making that movement a social disaster and not just a normal part of life.

    Conservatism, Inc. refuses to acknowledge their own part in this economic disaster.

     

    Haha, that was great.  I must have missed that one.

    • #264
  25. Jager Coolidge
    Jager
    @Jager

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):

    I absolutely believe it.
    That said what is a good future move for 18-20 year old, doesn’t necessarily work for a 35 year old with a wife and kids.

    It sounds like you are saying that people don’t have a responsibility to work and pay their own expenses rather than live off of society. I think Bernie Sanders would agree with much of what you are saying here.

    I really appreciate your thought here, they show how “conservatism” and the right fail over and over. You are arguing the ideal. How things aught to be, without any thought to how things actually are.  A problem KW is suffering from as well, but seemed to realize it a little when prosing changes to the benefits program. 

    People will generally do what is in their own best interest. Not always but that is the rule of thumb that created whole areas of study like behavioral economics. Right now these people have benefits worth a certain amount of money, this is unlikely to change the Democrats will not let benefits go way. People will not change their behavior to be worse off then they are now, this is not rational. 

    KW’s just move and maybe we should adjust benefits to help with this has some potential. But it is putting the horse before the cart. We want people to be self sufficient.  Just move doesn’t get there. Rather then pointing the finger at the poor uneducated person and saying “move”. Start in the other direction, maybe with some compassion. Your life is not great, here is how we help. Point the finger at policy makers, create the change in benefits help the people to move and survive the move. This does not cost more money really then leaving them on benefits. 

    The idea of a hand up rather than a hand out is the goal right? So KW maybe on the right path with the idea of finding ways to get people to where the jobs are. That idea has to come first. Just move is not a “hand up” it is the same or worse life in a new place. 

    Bernie Sanders exists to an extent because he offers free stuff to poor people. The Right can make arguments that are true about the benefits of work, the chance to get ahead, and the Right can offer help. Or they can say “so move”. 

    • #265
  26. Manny Member
    Manny
    @Manny

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    And what caused people to move from Ireland and England to the states? Couldn’t have been economic policies leading to disasters, could it?

    Of course. The point is that they moved. You seem to think that moving to where there is opportunity is somehow too much to expect.

    You have to have a balance, Jean.  Sure people have to go where jobs are but massive dislocations are culturally degenerative.  I’m not saying there has to be welfare checks to keep people in place – that would be just as horrid as the dislocations – but there has to be a policy of encouraging business to come or stay and/or relocate to needed areas.  That is not laissez faire free trade as NR and the Libertarians desire.  In fact that is what Israel and many European countries do.  That is what Trump wanted to do under the term Nationalism.  NR reacted vociferously to the term Nationalism.  Call it what you will, but absolute free trade is massively dislocating and unless you’re in the desired location leads to massive cultural rot.

    • #266
  27. Manny Member
    Manny
    @Manny

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic … (View Comment):

    I think families dispersing across the country, living far from each other is one reason for the breakdown of families. You need that family support. You need your people around you. The best thing a family can do — particularly in economically difficult times — is to live close to each other where they can support each other. Financially, . . . emotionally . . . raising children . . . instead of encouraging families to separate from each other, we should be encouraging them to remain close to each other.

    Absolutely, and the Libertarians encourage this, knowingly or unknowingly.  

    • #267
  28. Manny Member
    Manny
    @Manny

    Well, I started on page 1 of this post and got to the end in an hour and a half…lol.  I guess I wasted almost two hours, but it was a lot of fun reading.  Thanks to all for a great Ricochet experience, whether we agreed or not.  

    • #268
  29. HeavyWater Reagan
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Jager (View Comment):

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    Jager (View Comment):

    I absolutely believe it.
    That said what is a good future move for 18-20 year old, doesn’t necessarily work for a 35 year old with a wife and kids.

    It sounds like you are saying that people don’t have a responsibility to work and pay their own expenses rather than live off of society. I think Bernie Sanders would agree with much of what you are saying here.

    I really appreciate your thought here, they show how “conservatism” and the right fail over and over. You are arguing the ideal. How things aught to be, without any thought to how things actually are. A problem KW is suffering from as well, but seemed to realize it a little when prosing changes to the benefits program.

    People will generally do what is in their own best interest. Not always but that is the rule of thumb that created whole areas of study like behavioral economics. Right now these people have benefits worth a certain amount of money, this is unlikely to change the Democrats will not let benefits go way. People will not change their behavior to be worse off then they are now, this is not rational.

    You say that people will generally do what is in their best interest.  Sometimes moving to where the jobs are is in ones best interest rather than staying put. 

    It might not be in ones short term best interest in the sense that the benefits of moving to where the jobs are might not develop until a few years afterward. 

    But to join the Bernie Sanders bandwagon and label this “conservatism” or “populism” is only going to turn our country into a socialist hell-hole.   

     

    • #269
  30. DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    HeavyWater (View Comment):

    But to join the Bernie Sanders bandwagon and label this “conservatism” or “populism” is only going to turn our country into a socialist hell-hole.

    Oh, look: it’s the typical “You’re a leftist if you disagree with me” nonsense.

    The fact that Bernie Sanders is offered up as the bogeyman tells you what sort of frame of reference is being employed: one fitting the 20th century rather than the 21st.  We have too many boomercons who don’t know what time it is.

    • #270
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