Latest Slur Against the Right: Replacement Theory

 

When I read the jumble of definitions that were supposed to define “replacement theory,” I became extremely skeptical of its credibility and validity. Yet a part of me, given the current chaotic climate in this country, was reluctant to discard it out of hand and assume it wasn’t important, for a number of reasons.

First, replacement theory is a mish-mash of theories that the Left has chosen to lump together, a kind of everything-but-the-kitchen-sink approach. The problem with this “theory” is that the Left can conveniently modify it to suit their needs and use it to attack others. For example, one broad definition is:

At the extremes of American life, replacement theory — the notion that Western elites, sometimes manipulated by Jews, want to ‘replace’ and disempower white Americans — has become an engine of racist terror, helping inspire a wave of mass shootings in recent years and fueling the 2017 right-wing rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, that erupted in violence.

Please note that the only people guilty of espousing this definition are “white Americans” at the extremes, and that Jews are conspiring with the elites.

But in the same article, these radical ideas are identified everywhere:

But replacement theory, once confined to the digital fever swamps of Reddit message boards and semi-obscure white nationalist sites, has gone mainstream. In sometimes more muted forms, the fear it crystallizes — of a future America in which white people are no longer the numerical majority — has become a potent force in conservative media and politics, where the theory has been borrowed and remixed to attract audiences, retweets and small-dollar donations.

In this definition, the conservative Right is conspiring with the white supremacists out of fear of losing their positions in society.

Finally, the Republican Party is targeted as espousing replacement theory:

Yet in recent months, versions of the same ideas, sanded down and shorn of explicitly anti-Black and antisemitic themes, have become commonplace in the Republican Party — spoken aloud at congressional hearings, echoed in Republican campaign advertisements, and increasingly embraced by right-wing candidates and media personalities.

Tucker Carlson on Fox has been targeted regarding replacement theory, even though he rejects the term; he does, however, point out that the Democrats have openly declared in the past that increasing the ranks of the Hispanic population will likely increase their electoral base, although evidence to the contrary is now emerging. I doubt that the Left appreciates being reminded of its arrogance.

And now Liz Cheney is “eating her own”  (so to speak):

‘The House GOP leadership has enabled white nationalism, white supremacy, and anti-Semitism. History has taught us that what begins with words ends in far worse. @GOP leaders must renounce and reject these views and those who hold them,’ Cheney said in a tweet.

Although many Conservatives don’t take her seriously, the political Left probably agrees with her and uses her diatribes to discount us.

Do those of us on the political Right have reasons to be concerned? After years of being accused of being systemic racists, Nazis and anti-Semites, is replacement theory just another troll?

I believe that at some point we have to call out the Left for their smears, repeatedly, resolutely, and every time we are in front of a camera. We are looking at the worst possible attacks by a group that is incapable of recognizing its own bigotry, hatred and actions. After all, the Left, given how they condescend to the blacks in this country, demonstrate systemic racism. They demonstrate their willingness to make baseless accusations to prop up their narrative, such as Nazi attributions we heard from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez likening the detention facilities to concentration camps. And her cohorts have made anti-Semitic remarks and were reprimanded with a pointless House response.

As an American, a Conservative, and a Jew I can no longer sit back and disregard these attacks as annoying but harmless. Separately, these diatribes might be brushed away, but cumulatively they are being used more frequently and with abandon. At some point, our half-hearted protests and complaining will strengthen their false narratives. And we will have lost any advantage and credibility to call them out.

What will we do then?

What can we do now?

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  1. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    philo (View Comment):

    “…an overemphasis on liberty…was the source of the problem.“

    There, ladies and gentlemen, is your <<FACEPALM>> moment of the day. Good grief.

    I think that your reaction proves my point, actually.  We seem to have a fundamental disagreement about this.  That seems to be the libertarian-conservative divide that I was referencing.

    You might want to think about it, and try to understand the views of someone who disagrees with you, rather than reacting emotionally with the “<<FACEPALM>>” thing and then quoting Charlie Brown.  It is the sort of response that leads one to think that you don’t have a viable foundation for your views.

    • #61
  2. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I disagree that, as a whole, conservatives consciously chose to withdraw from the culture wars. At the risk of a rather serious generalization, the conservative mindset is private-sector oriented and entrepreneurial. While that may amount to a withdrawal, that is more a consequence of who conservatives are and that priorities are more family-centric. The problem arises because of the outsized influence of those pursuits that, on the whole, don’t appeal to conservatives as occupations.

    We were too busy celebrating our victories in the Economic Wars.   We wanted to savour that for a while, not dive headlong into another gruelling fight.   But in hindsight, that was a mistake.

    • #62
  3. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    BDB (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio&hellip; (View Comment):
    There is a philosophical basis for this disagreement, I think, arising from the so-called Enlightenment. The Enlightenment is a rejection of religion and tradition, and an elevation of what they call “reason” to primacy, generally as a result of an incorrect belief that moral values can be derived rationally.

    Now do the Renaissance.

    I know somewhat less about the so-called Renaissance, I think.  I view it as primarily artistic.  Most of the Renaissance themes continued to be religious, so I don’t have the impression that it involved the rejection of religion and tradition that characterized the so-called Enlightenment.  It seems to have principally involved a development in art, especially painting and sculpture, toward a more realistic and accurate portrayal than in the immediately preceding period.  Particularly in sculpture, this was reminiscent of Greek and Roman art, though what I’ve seen of Greek and Roman painting lacks the accuracy of the Renaissance painters.

    The label placed on the so-called Renaissance does seem to imply a rejection of medieval Christianity in favor of Greco-Roman paganism.  The themes of Renaissance art do not seem consistent with this, however, though this impression may be an artifact of my limited exposure to such art.  I’m principally familiar with the religious works of the great masters like Leonardo, Michelangelo, and Raphael.  Works like the Pieta, the Last Supper, and the Sistine ceiling do not suggest a rejection of Christianity.  Quite the contrary.

    • #63
  4. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio&hellip; (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I disagree that, as a whole, conservatives consciously chose to withdraw from the culture wars. At the risk of a rather serious generalization, the conservative mindset is private-sector oriented and entrepreneurial. While that may amount to a withdrawal, that is more a consequence of who conservatives are and that priorities are more family-centric. The problem arises because of the outsized influence of those pursuits that, on the whole, don’t appeal to conservatives as occupations.

    I think that the mindset you describe is more libertarian than conservative.

    What pursuits do you reference that, in your view, don’t appeal to conservatives as occupations? The law? Education? The clergy? Politics?

    It seems to me that, in the past, these appealed to conservatives, and I think that they still appeal to true conservatives. They do not appeal to libertarians, it seems.

    This does lead to another hypothesis. Buckley’s “fusionism” may have been a failure, at least on its own terms, as it purported to be “conservative.” It didn’t conserve. It was an effective vehicle for libertarianism, to some extent.

    Someone posted on Ricochet some time ago – two years now, I think? – that many social problems come because conservatives also tend to want their daughters ( and wives) to become doctors, not mothers.

    I suspect it’s also true that conservatives tend to want their daughters (and wives?) to become doctors, etc, and not teachers.

    • #64
  5. DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio&hellip; (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I disagree that, as a whole, conservatives consciously chose to withdraw from the culture wars. At the risk of a rather serious generalization, the conservative mindset is private-sector oriented and entrepreneurial. While that may amount to a withdrawal, that is more a consequence of who conservatives are and that priorities are more family-centric. The problem arises because of the outsized influence of those pursuits that, on the whole, don’t appeal to conservatives as occupations.

    I think that the mindset you describe is more libertarian than conservative.

    What pursuits do you reference that, in your view, don’t appeal to conservatives as occupations? The law? Education? The clergy? Politics?

    It seems to me that, in the past, these appealed to conservatives, and I think that they still appeal to true conservatives. They do not appeal to libertarians, it seems.

    This does lead to another hypothesis. Buckley’s “fusionism” may have been a failure, at least on its own terms, as it purported to be “conservative.” It didn’t conserve. It was an effective vehicle for libertarianism, to some extent.

    Someone posted on Ricochet some time ago – two years now, I think? – that many social problems come because conservatives also tend to want their daughters ( and wives) to become doctors, not mothers.

    I suspect it’s also true that conservatives tend to want their daughters (and wives?) to become doctors, etc, and not teachers.

    I wanted mine to become electricians and plumbers. I suppose there’s still time, but both are aiming at medical-related fields.

    • #65
  6. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic &hellip; (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Dbroussa (View Comment):
    Conservatives thought that it didn’t matter that the news was biased

    One of the mistakes that conservatives made was to think that it was enough to publicly refute the left’s claims–prove that they got their facts wrong and you’ve won. But that did not work because the left didn’t care about facts and logic, only about winning: They kept right on telling the same lies, year after year, journalists and teachers and professors, secure in the knowledge that they would never be fired because the left already controlled those institutions.

    The side that wants to win will always beat the side that just wants to be left alone.

    Succinct and true.

    • #66
  7. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic &hellip; (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio&hellip; (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I disagree that, as a whole, conservatives consciously chose to withdraw from the culture wars. At the risk of a rather serious generalization, the conservative mindset is private-sector oriented and entrepreneurial. While that may amount to a withdrawal, that is more a consequence of who conservatives are and that priorities are more family-centric. The problem arises because of the outsized influence of those pursuits that, on the whole, don’t appeal to conservatives as occupations.

    I think that the mindset you describe is more libertarian than conservative.

    What pursuits do you reference that, in your view, don’t appeal to conservatives as occupations? The law? Education? The clergy? Politics?

    It seems to me that, in the past, these appealed to conservatives, and I think that they still appeal to true conservatives. They do not appeal to libertarians, it seems.

    This does lead to another hypothesis. Buckley’s “fusionism” may have been a failure, at least on its own terms, as it purported to be “conservative.” It didn’t conserve. It was an effective vehicle for libertarianism, to some extent.

    Someone posted on Ricochet some time ago – two years now, I think? – that many social problems come because conservatives also tend to want their daughters ( and wives) to become doctors, not mothers.

    I suspect it’s also true that conservatives tend to want their daughters (and wives?) to become doctors, etc, and not teachers.

    I wanted mine to become electricians and plumbers. I suppose there’s still time, but both are aiming at medical-related fields.

    Further ceding the ground of education, to the left…

    Teaching used to be considered just fine for women.  Especially as-yet-unmarried women.

    • #67
  8. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    philo (View Comment):

    “…an overemphasis on liberty…was the source of the problem.“

    There, ladies and gentlemen, is your <<FACEPALM>> moment of the day. Good grief.

    Well, yes and no.  Fully enraged libertarians with no moral anchor tend to the anarchist / minarchist/ anarcho-syndicalist side of things, and our tent has seen no small disruption due to their inclusion.

    I think “overemphasis on liberty” is not wrong, although it certainly grates.  Depends upon what one means by liberty.  The liberty to entice children into drugs and other ill behaviors certainly also relies upon the liberty of the child, but as a society, we maintain certain arbitrary yet essential distinctions, many of which come with curbs upon liberty.  Selling drugs for example, even between consenting adults, is seen to foster a swamp of destruction and associated crime.  And the “legalize it” crowd is wrong about  the law being the problem — humans under the thrall of drugs become slaves to their ruin and ruin to their associates.

    I’ll write a post about our Libertarian struggles here sometime.  For now, this will have to do.  And I hasten to add that “libertarian/Libertarian” covers a lot of ground, of varying utility.

    • #68
  9. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic &hellip; (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio&hellip; (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I disagree that, as a whole, conservatives consciously chose to withdraw from the culture wars. At the risk of a rather serious generalization, the conservative mindset is private-sector oriented and entrepreneurial. While that may amount to a withdrawal, that is more a consequence of who conservatives are and that priorities are more family-centric. The problem arises because of the outsized influence of those pursuits that, on the whole, don’t appeal to conservatives as occupations.

    I think that the mindset you describe is more libertarian than conservative.

    What pursuits do you reference that, in your view, don’t appeal to conservatives as occupations? The law? Education? The clergy? Politics?

    It seems to me that, in the past, these appealed to conservatives, and I think that they still appeal to true conservatives. They do not appeal to libertarians, it seems.

    This does lead to another hypothesis. Buckley’s “fusionism” may have been a failure, at least on its own terms, as it purported to be “conservative.” It didn’t conserve. It was an effective vehicle for libertarianism, to some extent.

    Someone posted on Ricochet some time ago – two years now, I think? – that many social problems come because conservatives also tend to want their daughters ( and wives) to become doctors, not mothers.

    I suspect it’s also true that conservatives tend to want their daughters (and wives?) to become doctors, etc, and not teachers.

    I wanted mine to become electricians and plumbers. I suppose there’s still time, but both are aiming at medical-related fields.

    Well, I just read that we need our own elites so maybe they’ll help.

    • #69
  10. DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Teaching used to be considered just fine for women. Especially as-yet-unmarried women.

    They’re unmarried for a reason.

    • #70
  11. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic &hellip; (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio&hellip; (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I disagree that, as a whole, conservatives consciously chose to withdraw from the culture wars. At the risk of a rather serious generalization, the conservative mindset is private-sector oriented and entrepreneurial. While that may amount to a withdrawal, that is more a consequence of who conservatives are and that priorities are more family-centric. The problem arises because of the outsized influence of those pursuits that, on the whole, don’t appeal to conservatives as occupations.

    I think that the mindset you describe is more libertarian than conservative.

    What pursuits do you reference that, in your view, don’t appeal to conservatives as occupations? The law? Education? The clergy? Politics?

    It seems to me that, in the past, these appealed to conservatives, and I think that they still appeal to true conservatives. They do not appeal to libertarians, it seems.

    This does lead to another hypothesis. Buckley’s “fusionism” may have been a failure, at least on its own terms, as it purported to be “conservative.” It didn’t conserve. It was an effective vehicle for libertarianism, to some extent.

    Someone posted on Ricochet some time ago – two years now, I think? – that many social problems come because conservatives also tend to want their daughters ( and wives) to become doctors, not mothers.

    I suspect it’s also true that conservatives tend to want their daughters (and wives?) to become doctors, etc, and not teachers.

    I wanted mine to become electricians and plumbers. I suppose there’s still time, but both are aiming at medical-related fields.

    Well, I just read that we need our own elites so maybe they’ll help.

    Seems like that also just continues to cede education to the left.

    • #71
  12. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic &hellip; (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Teaching used to be considered just fine for women. Especially as-yet-unmarried women.

    They’re unmarried for a reason.

    Sounds like good reason not to want to put conservatives into teaching.  Yep, uh-huh.

    • #72
  13. philo Member
    philo
    @philo

    BDB (View Comment):

    philo (View Comment):

    “…an overemphasis on liberty…was the source of the problem.“

    There, ladies and gentlemen, is your <<FACEPALM>> moment of the day. Good grief.

    Well, yes and no. Fully enraged libertarians with no moral anchor tend to the anarchist / minarchist/ anarcho-syndicalist side of things, and our tent has seen no small disruption due to their inclusion.

    I think “overemphasis on liberty” is not wrong, although it certainly grates. Depends upon what one means by liberty. The liberty to entice children into drugs and other ill behaviors certainly also relies upon the liberty of the child, but as a society, we maintain certain arbitrary yet essential distinctions, many of which come with curbs upon liberty. Selling drugs for example, even between consenting adults, is seen to foster a swamp of destruction and associated crime. And the “legalize it” crowd is wrong about the law being the problem — humans under the thrall of drugs become slaves to their ruin and ruin to their associates.

    I’ll write a post about our Libertarian struggles here sometime. For now, this will have to do. And I hasten to add that “libertarian/Libertarian” covers a lot of ground, of varying utility.

    This is well worn ground with him…the meaning can shift to whatever is necessary for him to exhibit the transparently shallow, forced contrarian “personality” he has adopted since about December 2020. It has long ago become tedious and distracting to me but I do concede that some up there in the Upper Member Feed seem to enjoy the games of footsie with the character. So be it. As for me, I’m not nearly as impressed with it as he is. 

    • #73
  14. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte
    @Charlotte

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic &hellip; (View Comment):
    They’re unmarried for a reason.

    I think the Libs of TikTok person is an American hero.

    • #74
  15. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic &hellip; (View Comment):
    They’re unmarried for a reason.

    I think the Libs of TikTok person is an American hero.

    Which explains the effort to dox the person for the purpose of ending the whole thing.

    • #75
  16. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte
    @Charlotte

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic &hellip; (View Comment):
    They’re unmarried for a reason.

    I think the Libs of TikTok person is an American hero.

    Which explains the effort to dox the person for the purpose of ending the whole thing.

    Exactly. Did they succeed? Is the feed still active? (I only see it on Rico or when Mr. Charlotte shows me one. That’s about all I can take.)

    • #76
  17. DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Charlotte (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Unapologetic &hellip; (View Comment):
    They’re unmarried for a reason.

    I think the Libs of TikTok person is an American hero.

    Which explains the effort to dox the person for the purpose of ending the whole thing.

    Exactly. Did they succeed? Is the feed still active?

    Oh yes.

    • #77
  18. Cassandro Coolidge
    Cassandro
    @Flicker

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Dbroussa (View Comment):
    Conservatives thought that it didn’t matter that the news was biased

    One of the mistakes that conservatives made was to think that it was enough to publicly refute the left’s claims–prove that they got their facts wrong and you’ve won. But that did not work because the left didn’t care about facts and logic, only about winning: They kept right on telling the same lies, year after year, journalists and teachers and professors, secure in the knowledge that they would never be fired because the left already controlled those institutions.

    Yes, the Right’s thinking (and arguing, and persuading, and changing things) is at root rational (truth and fact-based), and to a large extent the acceptance of others’ right to disagree and otherwise control their own lives.  The Left’s is something other than rational, and they explicitly want to control other people’s lives (and murder babies, old people, and the depressed).

    • #78
  19. DonG (CAGW is a Hoax) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Hoax)
    @DonG

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    I disagree that, as a whole, conservatives consciously chose to withdraw from the culture wars. At the risk of a rather serious generalization, the conservative mindset is private-sector oriented and entrepreneurial. While that may amount to a withdrawal, that is more a consequence of who conservatives are and that priorities are more family-centric. The problem arises because of the outsized influence of those pursuits that, on the whole, don’t appeal to conservatives as occupations.

    I tend to agree with you, Hoyacon. We are very busy just managing life and taking care of those around us, going to church, volunteering; those are where our priorities lie. Protesting, as many of us now feel forced to do, was not part of our picture.

    I think it made worse by the end of the Cold War.   The big bad USSR with nukes were a strong force for ginning up American patriotism and pride.   When that opposition dissipated our patriotic muscles atrophied and creeping Leftism moved in.  

    • #79
  20. Douglas Pratt Coolidge
    Douglas Pratt
    @DouglasPratt

    If you want to know what the Left is up to, just look at what they are accusing us of doing.

    • #80
  21. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    BDB (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):
    This is sheer vengeance from a politically motivated minority of several demotypes. And cowardice among whites, fueled by “white guilt”, makes it successful.

    We have to wonder if those white supremacists have a legitimate beef, with their paranoic ideas . . .

    Indeed. “White Supremacists” has grown to cover ordinary people who feel proud of their culture and “group” accomplishments who also happen to be white.

    The real sin here is the invitation to hate non-whites, who mostly are just like us (majority of present company) and who also feel a sense of group pride. THIS IS THE TRAP FOR WHITES.

    I’m white, and I am proud of what white people have accomplished, with caveats, and this should be the default position for everybody, white, black, yellow, red (and brown, which in evo bio terms is included in white, but in cultural terms often is distinct). Yet only whites are encouraged (to put it gently) to examine those caveats, whereas other groups are assured that they are without sin, which is patently silly.

    I view the whole thing as a sophisticated Alinskyite strategy to push whites into hatred of non-whites by recruiting non-whites to call us haters — becoming a useful (for the offense) self-fulfilling damnation.

    So here the whites are ont he defense against not the black and browns, but against the satanic (if you’ll allow me the term) whites who use blacks and browns for political goals.

    Blacks are more conservative than whites, but face far greater social pressure to identify with the political left. THIS IS THE TRAP FOR NON-WHITES.

    Anyway. I like your post.

     

    Stupid trap.

    If whites were ever to enmass decide to engage in racial spoils, America is over. 

     

    • #81
  22. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    TBA (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    “You may not have heard of the Lorem Ipsum principle but rest assured Republicans are talking about it openly and behind closed doors. This principle means hate, hatey-hate, and ultrahate for those who can least afford it – the vulnerable, but also you personally. Please help us fight the brazen efforts to at the Lorem Ipsumation of the nation by convincing yourselves and others of the utter perfidy of every single Ipsumist (Republican). And remember, only we can save you.”

    The what? How come we’re not talking about it openly?

    This reminds me of QAnon in that the left is always talking about it and knows more about it than I do.

    Only an Ipsumist would claim he’s never heard of it.

    I prefer the Lorem Nation , thank you.

    • #82
  23. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    BDB (View Comment):

    There’s an awful undercurrent here which is being propagandized into the youth and other soft-headed folk. Being white is bad.

    This is sheer vengeance from a politically motivated minority of several demotypes. And cowardice among whites, fueled by “white guilt”, makes it successful.

    It’s okay to be white.

    Watched Suits and red-headed Donna says to her two black co-workers “I’m black on the inside.” I want to know… what’s wrong with being white?

    No one values white music or white dancing, style, anything. It’s ridiculed and dumped on. Be less white, because whites have no culture, no taste.

    • #83
  24. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    philo (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    philo (View Comment):

    “…an overemphasis on liberty…was the source of the problem.“

    There, ladies and gentlemen, is your <<FACEPALM>> moment of the day. Good grief.

    Well, yes and no. Fully enraged libertarians with no moral anchor tend to the anarchist / minarchist/ anarcho-syndicalist side of things, and our tent has seen no small disruption due to their inclusion.

    I think “overemphasis on liberty” is not wrong, although it certainly grates. Depends upon what one means by liberty. The liberty to entice children into drugs and other ill behaviors certainly also relies upon the liberty of the child, but as a society, we maintain certain arbitrary yet essential distinctions, many of which come with curbs upon liberty. Selling drugs for example, even between consenting adults, is seen to foster a swamp of destruction and associated crime. And the “legalize it” crowd is wrong about the law being the problem — humans under the thrall of drugs become slaves to their ruin and ruin to their associates.

    I’ll write a post about our Libertarian struggles here sometime. For now, this will have to do. And I hasten to add that “libertarian/Libertarian” covers a lot of ground, of varying utility.

    This is well worn ground with him…the meaning can shift to whatever is necessary for him to exhibit the transparently shallow, forced contrarian “personality” he has adopted since about December 2020. It has long ago become tedious and distracting to me but I do concede that some up there in the Upper Member Feed seem to enjoy the games of footsie with the character. So be it. As for me, I’m not nearly as impressed with it as he is.

    I have questioned the enlightenment value, too. First Things is also starting to question its effects.

    Religion and tradition are built on generations’ worth of experiences distilled into relatively accessible moral codes. The enlightenment sought to disrupt that because their immediate senses could not readily experience the what generations experience.

    Abandoning moral codes can have negative consequences for individuals, but a lot of the time, individuals do not face serious consequences for bad acts. It is society that  deteriorates from bad acts. The consequences of bad acts are usually so big, it doesn’t just affect the one individual, but many around them. 

    But one individual and one generation will never feel the repercussions of removing the moral structures from a society. Empiricism is not useful.

    • #84
  25. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Stina (View Comment):

    philo (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    philo (View Comment):

    “…an overemphasis on liberty…was the source of the problem.“

    There, ladies and gentlemen, is your <<FACEPALM>> moment of the day. Good grief.

    Well, yes and no. Fully enraged libertarians with no moral anchor tend to the anarchist / minarchist/ anarcho-syndicalist side of things, and our tent has seen no small disruption due to their inclusion.

    I think “overemphasis on liberty” is not wrong, although it certainly grates. Depends upon what one means by liberty. The liberty to entice children into drugs and other ill behaviors certainly also relies upon the liberty of the child, but as a society, we maintain certain arbitrary yet essential distinctions, many of which come with curbs upon liberty. Selling drugs for example, even between consenting adults, is seen to foster a swamp of destruction and associated crime. And the “legalize it” crowd is wrong about the law being the problem — humans under the thrall of drugs become slaves to their ruin and ruin to their associates.

    I’ll write a post about our Libertarian struggles here sometime. For now, this will have to do. And I hasten to add that “libertarian/Libertarian” covers a lot of ground, of varying utility.

    This is well worn ground with him…the meaning can shift to whatever is necessary for him to exhibit the transparently shallow, forced contrarian “personality” he has adopted since about December 2020. It has long ago become tedious and distracting to me but I do concede that some up there in the Upper Member Feed seem to enjoy the games of footsie with the character. So be it. As for me, I’m not nearly as impressed with it as he is.

    I have questioned the enlightenment value, too. First Things is also starting to question its effects.

    Religion and tradition are built on generations’ worth of experiences distilled into relatively accessible moral codes. The enlightenment sought to disrupt that because their immediate senses could not readily experience the what generations experience.

    Abandoning moral codes can have negative consequences for individuals, but a lot of the time, individuals do not face serious consequences for bad acts. It is society that deteriorates from bad acts. The consequences of bad acts are usually so big, it doesn’t just affect the one individual, but many around them.

    But one individual and one generation will never feel the repercussions of removing the moral structures from a society. Empiricism is not useful.

    Saying “nuts” to the Divine Right of Kings got us the US Constitution. Saying the same to all moral strictures got the French the Reign of Terror.

    • #85
  26. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Stina (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    There’s an awful undercurrent here which is being propagandized into the youth and other soft-headed folk. Being white is bad.

    This is sheer vengeance from a politically motivated minority of several demotypes. And cowardice among whites, fueled by “white guilt”, makes it successful.

    It’s okay to be white.

    Watched Suits and red-headed Donna says to her two black co-workers “I’m black on the inside.” I want to know… what’s wrong with being white?

    No one values white music or white dancing, style, anything. It’s ridiculed and dumped on. Be less white, because whites have no culture, no taste.

    I made this for another occasion, but it might be appropriate here too:

     

    • #86
  27. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Stina (View Comment):

    Religion and tradition are built on generations’ worth of experiences distilled into relatively accessible moral codes. The enlightenment sought to disrupt that because their immediate senses could not readily experience the what generations experience.

    Abandoning moral codes can have negative consequences for individuals, but a lot of the time, individuals do not face serious consequences for bad acts. It is society that  deteriorates from bad acts. The consequences of bad acts are usually so big, it doesn’t just affect the one individual, but many around them.

    But one individual and one generation will never feel the repercussions of removing the moral structures from a society. Empiricism is not useful.

    What?

    • #87
  28. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Religion and tradition are built on generations’ worth of experiences distilled into relatively accessible moral codes. The enlightenment sought to disrupt that because their immediate senses could not readily experience the what generations experience.

    Abandoning moral codes can have negative consequences for individuals, but a lot of the time, individuals do not face serious consequences for bad acts. It is society that deteriorates from bad acts. The consequences of bad acts are usually so big, it doesn’t just affect the one individual, but many around them.

    But one individual and one generation will never feel the repercussions of removing the moral structures from a society. Empiricism is not useful.

    What?

    The enlightenment rid itself of generational wisdom. It demands to constantly rediscover for oneself what works and what doesn’t. The consequences of some actions, though, are not felt immediately. In some cases, they take a generation to be felt. And another generation and another.

    • #88
  29. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Stina (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Religion and tradition are built on generations’ worth of experiences distilled into relatively accessible moral codes. The enlightenment sought to disrupt that because their immediate senses could not readily experience the what generations experience.

    Abandoning moral codes can have negative consequences for individuals, but a lot of the time, individuals do not face serious consequences for bad acts. It is society that deteriorates from bad acts. The consequences of bad acts are usually so big, it doesn’t just affect the one individual, but many around them.

    But one individual and one generation will never feel the repercussions of removing the moral structures from a society. Empiricism is not useful.

    What?

    The enlightenment rid itself of generational wisdom. It demands to constantly rediscover for oneself what works and what doesn’t. The consequences of some actions, though, are not felt immediately. In some cases, they take a generation to be felt. And another generation and another.

    Ok, but . . . how do you reconcile your two bolded claims?

    • #89
  30. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Religion and tradition are built on generations’ worth of experiences distilled into relatively accessible moral codes. The enlightenment sought to disrupt that because their immediate senses could not readily experience the what generations experience.

    Abandoning moral codes can have negative consequences for individuals, but a lot of the time, individuals do not face serious consequences for bad acts. It is society that deteriorates from bad acts. The consequences of bad acts are usually so big, it doesn’t just affect the one individual, but many around them.

    But one individual and one generation will never feel the repercussions of removing the moral structures from a society. Empiricism is not useful.

    What?

    The enlightenment rid itself of generational wisdom. It demands to constantly rediscover for oneself what works and what doesn’t. The consequences of some actions, though, are not felt immediately. In some cases, they take a generation to be felt. And another generation and another.

    Ok, but . . . how do you reconcile your two bolded claims?

    Missing qualifier. Generational experience is not individual experience. 

    • #90
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