If Ukraine Wins, Who Loses?

 

There’s the obvious answers – Putin, the image of Russian might, the Duginist dream of solidifying Russian control over its insolent children. 

Who else? The Russian Orthodox Church, for declaring this a holy war? Xi, for his association with a loser whose actions renewed Taiwanese determination to stave off an invasion? The countries that have been buying Russian military gear and now have a rep, however justified, for buying junk? US pundits who backed Russia’s invasion? Renewable energy advocates, suddenly on the back foot because nuclear is a better option than Russian gas? US intelligence agencies that failed to figure out how the Russian forces are ancient and hollowed out by corruption?

You could also note who else wins: the West, for one. Superior armaments and tech, better logistics, the products of a more energetic and innovative culture. I suspect there’s a non-insubstantial intersection between those who are comfy with Russian control of Ukraine and those who would be irritated by a Western win, because the West is decadent and subject to rule from our Davos overlords, and ought not to prevail until it is overhauled and remade. 

This is not a thread about whether Ukraine will win, or what victory looks like. Just a question about what shakes out when it is apparent to all that Russia could not prevail. 

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  1. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Cassandro (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Cassandro (View Comment):

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    For your consideration:

    “There is no such thing as conversation. It is an illusion. There are intersecting monologues, that is all.”

    Rebecca West, The Harsh Voice (1935)

    Is a question part of a conversation or just a monologue?

    If it’s a device to showcase one’s own answer….

    That’s awfully cynical, isn’t it?

    Seems quite common?

    • #1261
  2. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    For your consideration:

    “There is no such thing as conversation. It is an illusion. There are intersecting monologues, that is all.”

    Rebecca West, The Harsh Voice (1935)

    If West believed it why did she bother saying it since by her definition no one is listening? Kind of like the skeptics eternal problem- the claim that “the truth is there is no truth”-is that true?

    • #1262
  3. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    MiMac (View Comment):

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    For your consideration:

    “There is no such thing as conversation. It is an illusion. There are intersecting monologues, that is all.”

    Rebecca West, The Harsh Voice (1935)

    If West believed it why did she bother saying it since by her definition no one is listening? Kind of like the skeptics eternal problem- the claim that “the truth is there is no truth”-is that true?

    Every single thing I say to you is a lie, including that statement!

    • #1263
  4. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    For your consideration:

    “There is no such thing as conversation. It is an illusion. There are intersecting monologues, that is all.”

    Rebecca West, The Harsh Voice (1935)

    If West believed it why did she bother saying it since by her definition no one is listening? Kind of like the skeptics eternal problem- the claim that “the truth is there is no truth”-is that true?

    Every single thing I say to you is a lie, including that statement!

    Star Trek did it better.

    • #1264
  5. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    For your consideration:

    “There is no such thing as conversation. It is an illusion. There are intersecting monologues, that is all.”

    Rebecca West, The Harsh Voice (1935)

    If West believed it why did she bother saying it since by her definition no one is listening? Kind of like the skeptics eternal problem- the claim that “the truth is there is no truth”-is that true?

    Every single thing I say to you is a lie, including that statement!

    Star Trek did it better.

    I like how  the robot’s head starts smoking.  It’s like a bad 1950’s sci-fi movie.

    • #1265
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