Dude Isn’t Just Wrong, He’s Evil

 

It’s long been said that the Left believes the Right is evil and the Right believes the Left is just wrong. Well, I’m over that. Joe Biden is evil and he’s the head of the party of evil. The Democrat party is historically the party of slavery and currently the party of racism (disguised as anti-racism) and murder. Yes, Joe Biden said the quiet part out loud (h/t Robert Spencer at PJMedia):

“The idea that we’re gonna make a judgment that is going to say that no one can make the judgment to choose to abort a child based on a decision by the Supreme Court I think goes way overboard.”

Abort not just a clump of cells, but an actual, living “child.” That’s the only truthful part of the statement. The rest is just a Big, Huge Lie, since overturning Roe will not outlaw abortion, but will return the decision to the states, where it started pre-Roe and where it belongs. New York City can continue its genocidal abortion of more black babies than are born, Colorado will allow you to kill your child at the point of crowning, and California can pay to fly you in from another state to abort, abort, abort. If that’s not evil, I don’t know what is.

But, Biden gets worse. He tells an even bigger lie, if possible, about the historical view of religions toward abortion:

“Look, think what Roe says. Roe says what all basic mainstream religions have historically concluded — that the right — that the existence of a human life and being is a question. Is it at the moment of conception? Is it six months? Is it six weeks?”

First off, could he be more incoherent and dishonest? Mainstream religions have concluded that the start of human life is inconclusive? And that’s why we should be allowed to kill children? Because we don’t know when life begins? Wouldn’t that mean, ethically, since we don’t know, we should err on the side of caution and not kill children at any stage of development??

And secondly, the Catholic church — Joe Biden’s church! — couldn’t be more clear conclusive. Life begins at conception (it’s science, duh!) and must be protected from conception until natural death. The Left will surely take to the streets in the coming days and weeks, but I can tell you, the scandal in the Catholic church will be momentous if the bishops don’t have a serious response to this. I will join my fellow Catholics camping outside the chanceries of our dioceses in protest until the bishops make clear that Joe Biden’s position is anathema to Catholics, both historically and in the present, because it is the longstanding teaching of the church established by Christ that “thou shalt not murder.” Joe’s position is, in fact, mortal sin. It is soul-killing. This is literally what excommunication is for –“to awaken an individual’s conscience to repentance” (canon 1312 & 1331).

Get on it, your excellencies. Joe Biden better not be receiving communion this Sunday. Our Lord is too precious to be so defiled and we won’t stand for it after these vile, scandalous statements.

Published in General
This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 92 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. 9thDistrictNeighbor Member
    9thDistrictNeighbor
    @9thDistrictNeighbor

    Let us pause here for a lesson from a cancelled priest. 

     

     

    • #31
  2. Chuck Coolidge
    Chuck
    @Chuckles

    Returning power to the states, huh?  

    Does that mean Obamacare will no longer encourage infanticide? That the Department of Education (Indoctrination) will no longer tell our children that infanticide is a “right”? That my Federal tax dollars won’t end up at Planned Parenthood?

    • #32
  3. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Chuck (View Comment):

    Returning power to the states, huh?

    Does that mean Obamacare will no longer encourage infanticide? That the Department of Education (Indoctrination) will no longer tell our children that infanticide is a “right”? That my Federal tax dollars won’t end up at Planned Parenthood?

    I suspect just the opposite.  That all that will happen more so.

    • #33
  4. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    jaWes (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist:

    Abort not just a clump of cells, but an actual, living “child.”

    but will return the decision to the states, where it started pre-Roe and where it belongs.

    Can you please explain the logic here? If the fetus is a child with all the inalienable rights of a born child, then why does the question of abortion belong with the states? It’s okay for California to deny the right to life of a child?

    If we’re going to be wishy washy about whether an unborn child has a right to life, then I don’t see why the pro-choice position that the decision should reside with the woman is not correct. I don’t understand how someone can hold the position that the fetus is a child with a right to life and at the same time that the question of abortion should be left to the states.

    The only way this makes sense to me is if the argument is that the constitution does not define when life begins so therefore states should be able to define it. But this seems like the same kind of argument that was made about slavery.

    Please elaborate.

    First, it is government for the people, by the people.

    And the people are not in one accord on this issue. We are clearly and unequivocally divided.

    To put this at the highest level of government, abortion wins and we are all culpable. To put it at the states, some states get to be more moral than other states because their people are more moral than other states.

    That protects the moral people.

    Unless you want a divorce. Do you want secession? Because the only way for a heavily divided nation to be held together peacefully and without totalitarianism is to allow for federalism to flourish.

    • #34
  5. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    carcat74 (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    carcat74 (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    jaWes (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist:

    Abort not just a clump of cells, but an actual, living “child.”

    but will return the decision to the states, where it started pre-Roe and where it belongs.

    Can you please explain the logic here? If the fetus is a child with all the inalienable rights of a born child, then why does the question of abortion belong with the states? It’s okay for California to deny the right to life of a child?

    If we’re going to be wishy washy about whether an unborn child has a right to life, then I don’t see why the pro-choice position that the decision should reside with the woman is not correct. I don’t understand how someone can hold the position that the fetus is a child with a right to life and at the same time that the question of abortion should be left to the states.

    The only way this makes sense to me is if the argument is that the constitution does not define when life begins so therefore states should be able to define it. But this seems like the same kind of argument that was made about slavery.

    Please elaborate.

    The opinion offered by the Supreme Court which we are seeing in draft form doesn’t go that far. It doesn’t convey rights on the unborn child. It simply says that abortion is not a right. That means that States are few to regulate it under what is termed “Generalized Police Power”. The Federal government doesn’t have “Generalized Police Power”, so actually the calls for congress to codify Roe probably wouldn’t survive the court either. It maybe that some future court does decide the child is a person that should be protected. This court didn’t go that far.

    Federalism means that different states will come down in different places on important questions based on how the citizens of the state see the issue. Placing this back in the realm of conventional politics means that those lines can be redrawn if the opinions of those citizens change. It is not ideal to either side in the debate, but it is better for us to work this out in drafting laws rather than have a fixed standard for interpreting the law.

    If this ruling stands than the work of the prolife movement is ending it is starting. Also the prochoice folks should take that position as well. Want the laws to change? Convince your neighbor to change them. It is important that major questions get solved democratically in a our system.

    My problem with the states each deciding this is my own state, Kansas. We don’t have anything restricting or outlawing abortion that I’m aware of. Efforts to do that will be met by our Democrat governor, Laura Kelly. She will almost certainly veto any restriction. Which brings up another question—she was a TEACHER, so why not permit more children to be born? There are too many TEACHERS who support abortion—WHY?

    If she is an obstacle and the good people of Kansas want to restrict abortion then they will have to vote her out of office. This is a feature for me rather than a bug. As to the teacher thing, that is easy most of them are leftist first. Teachers as a profession, not necessarily as individuals, long ago gave up on making it about the children. It is about pushing a leftist agenda in society. It is the same situation as medical organizations pushing transgenderism. The associations are all woke leftist that don’t necessarily speak for their members.

    Thank you for the clarification, although I hold to the theory many teachers these days are brain-damaged, or evil—take your pick.

    I tend to discount the fact that most people I am dealing with are evil.  I believe evil exists, but most people do evil because they are going along with the crowd rather than because they actually choose it.

    • #35
  6. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    We are getting a taste of how slavery divided our nation, how some justified it, and how such a divisive issue was resolved. This isn’t the thing that resolves abortion • it is just a step toward ending an evil, like some of the compromises passed from the ratification to the civil war.

    • #36
  7. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Raxxalan (View Comment):
    I tend to discount the fact that most people I am dealing with are evil.  I believe evil exists, but most people do evil because they are going along with the crowd rather than because they actually choose it.

    “All that is necessary for evil to triumph, said Burke, is for good men to do nothing; and most good men nowadays can be relied upon to do precisely that. Where a reputation for intolerance is more feared than a reputation for vice itself, all manner of evil may be expected to flourish.”
    ― Theodore Dalrymple, Our Culture, What’s Left of It: The Mandarins and the Masses

    • #37
  8. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Stina (View Comment):

    jaWes (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist:

    Abort not just a clump of cells, but an actual, living “child.”

    but will return the decision to the states, where it started pre-Roe and where it belongs.

    Can you please explain the logic here? If the fetus is a child with all the inalienable rights of a born child, then why does the question of abortion belong with the states? It’s okay for California to deny the right to life of a child?

    If we’re going to be wishy washy about whether an unborn child has a right to life, then I don’t see why the pro-choice position that the decision should reside with the woman is not correct. I don’t understand how someone can hold the position that the fetus is a child with a right to life and at the same time that the question of abortion should be left to the states.

    The only way this makes sense to me is if the argument is that the constitution does not define when life begins so therefore states should be able to define it. But this seems like the same kind of argument that was made about slavery.

    Please elaborate.

    First, it is government for the people, by the people.

    And the people are not in one accord on this issue. We are clearly and unequivocally divided.

    To put this at the highest level of government, abortion wins and we are all culpable. To put it at the states, some states get to be more moral than other states because their people are more moral than other states.

    That protects the moral people.

    Unless you want a divorce. Do you want secession? Because the only way for a heavily divided nation to be held together peacefully and without totalitarianism is to allow for federalism to flourish.

    I would just add here that abortion is hardly unique in this regard.  Under our Constitution, the federal government has certain enumerated powers, while the police power and enforcement of common and civil law has always been left to the states.  Murder, rape, assault, and theft are defined by state law codes plus legal precedent.

    Now broadly of course all states outlaw such things, but the details may vary from state to state.  Take age of consent laws, for instance: morally speaking, it’s incoherent to say that it’s fine and dandy to seduce a willing 16-year-old in State A but it’s rape if you happen to cross the border into State B.  But legally speaking, we leave it up to the messy democratic process in each state to draw these lines.

    • #38
  9. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):
    I tend to discount the fact that most people I am dealing with are evil. I believe evil exists, but most people do evil because they are going along with the crowd rather than because they actually choose it.

    “All that is necessary for evil to triumph, said Burke, is for good men to do nothing; and most good men nowadays can be relied upon to do precisely that. Where a reputation for intolerance is more feared than a reputation for vice itself, all manner of evil may be expected to flourish.”
    ― Theodore Dalrymple, Our Culture, What’s Left of It: The Mandarins and the Masses

    No the problem now is that what used to be considered good is not considered evil.  So the good are unsure what to do since they may be wrong and confused about it.  Add that to the fact that we have a very bad issue with the good going after the active good more than the bad.  

    • #39
  10. Chuck Coolidge
    Chuck
    @Chuckles

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    jaWes (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist:

    Abort not just a clump of cells, but an actual, living “child.”

    but will return the decision to the states, where it started pre-Roe and where it belongs.

    Can you please explain the logic here? If the fetus is a child with all the inalienable rights of a born child, then why does the question of abortion belong with the states? It’s okay for California to deny the right to life of a child?

    If we’re going to be wishy washy about whether an unborn child has a right to life, then I don’t see why the pro-choice position that the decision should reside with the woman is not correct. I don’t understand how someone can hold the position that the fetus is a child with a right to life and at the same time that the question of abortion should be left to the states.

    The only way this makes sense to me is if the argument is that the constitution does not define when life begins so therefore states should be able to define it. But this seems like the same kind of argument that was made about slavery.

    Please elaborate.

    First, it is government for the people, by the people.

    And the people are not in one accord on this issue. We are clearly and unequivocally divided.

    To put this at the highest level of government, abortion wins and we are all culpable. To put it at the states, some states get to be more moral than other states because their people are more moral than other states.

    That protects the moral people.

    Unless you want a divorce. Do you want secession? Because the only way for a heavily divided nation to be held together peacefully and without totalitarianism is to allow for federalism to flourish.

    I would just add here that abortion is hardly unique in this regard. Under our Constitution, the federal government has certain enumerated powers, while the police power and enforcement of common and civil law has always been left to the states. Murder, rape, assault, and theft are defined by state law codes plus legal precedent.

    Now broadly of course all states outlaw such things, but the details may vary from state to state. Take age of consent laws, for instance: morally speaking, it’s incoherent to say that it’s fine and dandy to seduce a willing 16-year-old in State A but it’s rape if you happen to cross the border into State B. But legally speaking, we leave it up to the messy democratic process in each state to draw these lines.

    Is it consistent to say that the Constitution states when it comes to the right to bear arms?  But there is no right to life in the Constitution?

    • #40
  11. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Chuck (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    jaWes (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist:

    Abort not just a clump of cells, but an actual, living “child.”

    but will return the decision to the states, where it started pre-Roe and where it belongs.

    Can you please explain the logic here? If the fetus is a child with all the inalienable rights of a born child, then why does the question of abortion belong with the states? It’s okay for California to deny the right to life of a child?

    . . .

    The only way this makes sense to me is if the argument is that the constitution does not define when life begins so therefore states should be able to define it. But this seems like the same kind of argument that was made about slavery.

    Please elaborate.

    First, it is government for the people, by the people.

    And the people are not in one accord on this issue. We are clearly and unequivocally divided.

    To put this at the highest level of government, abortion wins and we are all culpable. To put it at the states, some states get to be more moral than other states because their people are more moral than other states.

    That protects the moral people.

    Unless you want a divorce. Do you want secession? Because the only way for a heavily divided nation to be held together peacefully and without totalitarianism is to allow for federalism to flourish.

    I would just add here that abortion is hardly unique in this regard. Under our Constitution, the federal government has certain enumerated powers, while the police power and enforcement of common and civil law has always been left to the states. Murder, rape, assault, and theft are defined by state law codes plus legal precedent.

    Now broadly of course all states outlaw such things, but the details may vary from state to state. Take age of consent laws, for instance: morally speaking, it’s incoherent to say that it’s fine and dandy to seduce a willing 16-year-old in State A but it’s rape if you happen to cross the border into State B. But legally speaking, we leave it up to the messy democratic process in each state to draw these lines.

    Is it consistent to say that the Constitution states when it comes to the right to bear arms? But there is no right to life in the Constitution?

    Check the 14th. Second sentence, 3rd clause.

    The reason many don’t think that gives the federal government the power to protect the unborn is: That sentence of the 14th only applies to the unborn if they are persons, and we might need a law to specify that they are persons, but the power to make that specification is not given to the federal government.

    • #41
  12. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    jaWes (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist:

    Abort not just a clump of cells, but an actual, living “child.”

    but will return the decision to the states, where it started pre-Roe and where it belongs.

    Can you please explain the logic here? If the fetus is a child with all the inalienable rights of a born child, then why does the question of abortion belong with the states? It’s okay for California to deny the right to life of a child?

    If we’re going to be wishy washy about whether an unborn child has a right to life, then I don’t see why the pro-choice position that the decision should reside with the woman is not correct. I don’t understand how someone can hold the position that the fetus is a child with a right to life and at the same time that the question of abortion should be left to the states.

    The only way this makes sense to me is if the argument is that the constitution does not define when life begins so therefore states should be able to define it. But this seems like the same kind of argument that was made about slavery.

    Please elaborate.

    Not only that.  But normally if you kill another human being, you can either get the death penalty or spend years in prison.  

    That sort of punishment doesn’t seem to be debated in the abortion debate.  The worst thing that happens to a woman who seeks an abortion is that her physician gets punished.  

    • #42
  13. Chuck Coolidge
    Chuck
    @Chuckles

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Chuck (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    jaWes (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist:

    Abort not just a clump of cells, but an actual, living “child.”

    but will return the decision to the states, where it started pre-Roe and where it belongs.

    Can you please explain the logic here? If the fetus is a child with all the inalienable rights of a born child, then why does the question of abortion belong with the states? It’s okay for California to deny the right to life of a child?

    . . .

    The only way this makes sense to me is if the argument is that the constitution does not define when life begins so therefore states should be able to define it. But this seems like the same kind of argument that was made about slavery.

    Please elaborate.

    First, it is government for the people, by the people.

    And the people are not in one accord on this issue. We are clearly and unequivocally divided.

    To put this at the highest level of government, abortion wins and we are all culpable. To put it at the states, some states get to be more moral than other states because their people are more moral than other states.

    That protects the moral people.

    Unless you want a divorce. Do you want secession? Because the only way for a heavily divided nation to be held together peacefully and without totalitarianism is to allow for federalism to flourish.

    I would just add here that abortion is hardly unique in this regard. Under our Constitution, the federal government has certain enumerated powers, while the police power and enforcement of common and civil law has always been left to the states. Murder, rape, assault, and theft are defined by state law codes plus legal precedent.

    Now broadly of course all states outlaw such things, but the details may vary from state to state. Take age of consent laws, for instance: morally speaking, it’s incoherent to say that it’s fine and dandy to seduce a willing 16-year-old in State A but it’s rape if you happen to cross the border into State B. But legally speaking, we leave it up to the messy democratic process in each state to draw these lines.

    Is it consistent to say that the Constitution states when it comes to the right to bear arms? But there is no right to life in the Constitution?

    Check the 14th. Second sentence, 3rd clause.

    The reason many don’t think that gives the federal government the power to protect the unborn is: That sentence of the 14th only applies to the unborn if they are persons, and we might need a law to specify that they are persons, but the power to make that specification is not given to the federal government.

    I can understand that I suppose, even though it makes no sense that we still can’t figure out what a “person” is – but whatever they are, they have a right to bear arms. And run the government.

    • #43
  14. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    EHerring (View Comment):

    We are getting a taste of how slavery divided our nation, how some justified it, and how such a divisive issue was resolved. This isn’t the thing that resolves abortion • it is just a step toward ending an evil, like some of the compromises passed from the ratification to the civil war.

    And we know how “history” has judged those compromises.

    • #44
  15. Doctor Robert Member
    Doctor Robert
    @DoctorRobert

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    James Lileks (View Comment):
    all the pediatricians are agreed when it comes to “gender affirming care.”

    Every pediatrician I have talked to about this is dismayed and even frightened by “gender affirming care”. They want naught to do with it and would prefer to send the kids to psychiatrists along with their addled parents.

    That makes me feel better about the medical profession. Although, you guys really need to get your professional organizations out of making political statements about hot button social issues. When medical associations start echoing the gender nonsense it makes me question the competence of the medical community.

    Me too.  Believe me, me too.

    • #45
  16. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    James Lileks (View Comment):
    all the pediatricians are agreed when it comes to “gender affirming care.”

    Every pediatrician I have talked to about this is dismayed and even frightened by “gender affirming care”. They want naught to do with it and would prefer to send the kids to psychiatrists along with their addled parents.

    That makes me feel better about the medical profession. Although, you guys really need to get your professional organizations out of making political statements about hot button social issues. When medical associations start echoing the gender nonsense it makes me question the competence of the medical community.

    Me too. Believe me, me too.

    In the United Kingdom, the tide seems to be turning.  It might take a few years (or more) for the tide to turn here in America.  

    • #46
  17. Lilly B Coolidge
    Lilly B
    @LillyB

    Late to the comments, but I wanted to add this language from the 1973 Roe v. Wade opinion:

    37

    Although the Oath is not mentioned in any of the principal briefs in this case or in Doe v. Bolton, 410 U.S. 179, 93 S.Ct. 739, 35 L.Ed.2d 201, it represents the apex of the development of strict ethical concepts in medicine, and its influence endures to this day. Why did not the authority of Hippocrates dissuade abortion practice in his time and that of Rome? The late Dr. Edelstein provides us with a theory:16 The Oath was not uncontested even in Hippocrates’ day; only the Pythagorean school of philosophers frowned upon the related act of suicide. Most Greek thinkers, on the other hand, commended abortion, at least prior to viability. See Plato, Republic, V, 461; Aristotle, Politics, VII, 1335b 25. For the Pythagoreans, however, it was a matter of dogma. For them the embryo was animate from the moment of conception, and abortion meant destruction of a living being. The abortion clause of the Oath, therefore, ‘echoes Pythagorean doctrines,’ and ‘(i)n no other stratum of Greek opinion were such views held or proposed in the same spirit of uncompromising austerity.’17

    38

    Dr. Edelstein then concludes that the Oath originated in a group representing only a small segment of Greek opinion and that it certainly was not accepted by all ancient physicians. He points out that medical writings down to Galen (A.D. 130-200) ‘give evidence of the violation of almost every one of its injunctions.’18 But with the end of antiquity a decided change took place. Resistance against suicide and against abortion became common. The Oath came to be popular. The emerging teachings of Christianity were in agreement with the Phthagorean ethic. The Oath ‘became the nucleus of all medical ethics’ and ‘was applauded as the embodiment of truth.’ Thus, suggests Dr. Edelstein, it is ‘a Pythagorean manifesto and not the expression of an absolute standard of medical conduct.’19

    • #47
  18. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    jaWes (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist:

    Abort not just a clump of cells, but an actual, living “child.”

    but will return the decision to the states, where it started pre-Roe and where it belongs.

    Can you please explain the logic here? If the fetus is a child with all the inalienable rights of a born child, then why does the question of abortion belong with the states? It’s okay for California to deny the right to life of a child?

    If we’re going to be wishy washy about whether an unborn child has a right to life, then I don’t see why the pro-choice position that the decision should reside with the woman is not correct. I don’t understand how someone can hold the position that the fetus is a child with a right to life and at the same time that the question of abortion should be left to the states.

    The only way this makes sense to me is if the argument is that the constitution does not define when life begins so therefore states should be able to define it. But this seems like the same kind of argument that was made about slavery.

    Please elaborate.

    Murder is a state issue. You can only be tried by the feds for murder by the feds if you kill a federal employee or kill someone on federal property.

    • #48
  19. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Percival (View Comment):

    jaWes (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist:

    Abort not just a clump of cells, but an actual, living “child.”

    but will return the decision to the states, where it started pre-Roe and where it belongs.

    Can you please explain the logic here? If the fetus is a child with all the inalienable rights of a born child, then why does the question of abortion belong with the states? It’s okay for California to deny the right to life of a child?

    If we’re going to be wishy washy about whether an unborn child has a right to life, then I don’t see why the pro-choice position that the decision should reside with the woman is not correct. I don’t understand how someone can hold the position that the fetus is a child with a right to life and at the same time that the question of abortion should be left to the states.

    The only way this makes sense to me is if the argument is that the constitution does not define when life begins so therefore states should be able to define it. But this seems like the same kind of argument that was made about slavery.

    Please elaborate.

    Murder is a state issue. You can only be tried by the feds for murder by the feds if you kill a federal employee or kill someone on federal property.

    But if states don’t equally protect all persons from murder, then that’s a federal issue under the second sentence of the 14th Amendment.

    A 14th Amendment argument for Congressional abortion bans, or for a SCOTUS strikedown of California laws protecting abortion, looks to me like a viable option . . . if we don’t need any laws to confirm when personhood begins.

    But that’s a big if.

    • #49
  20. Basil Fawlty Member
    Basil Fawlty
    @BasilFawlty

    Stina (View Comment):
    That protects the moral people.

    But destroys the moral principle.

    • #50
  21. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    jaWes (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist:

    Abort not just a clump of cells, but an actual, living “child.”

    but will return the decision to the states, where it started pre-Roe and where it belongs.

    Can you please explain the logic here? If the fetus is a child with all the inalienable rights of a born child, then why does the question of abortion belong with the states? It’s okay for California to deny the right to life of a child?

    If we’re going to be wishy washy about whether an unborn child has a right to life, then I don’t see why the pro-choice position that the decision should reside with the woman is not correct. I don’t understand how someone can hold the position that the fetus is a child with a right to life and at the same time that the question of abortion should be left to the states.

    The only way this makes sense to me is if the argument is that the constitution does not define when life begins so therefore states should be able to define it. But this seems like the same kind of argument that was made about slavery.

    Please elaborate.

    Murder is a state issue. You can only be tried by the feds for murder by the feds if you kill a federal employee or kill someone on federal property.

    But if states don’t equally protect all persons from murder, then that’s a federal issue under the second sentence of the 14th Amendment.

    A 14th Amendment argument for Congressional abortion bans, or for a SCOTUS strikedown of California laws protecting abortion, looks to me like a viable option . . . if we don’t need any laws to confirm when personhood begins.

    But that’s a big if.

    States already don’t define murder in precisely the same way. What can be murder in one state may only be manslaughter in another.

    • #51
  22. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Chuck (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    jaWes (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist:

    Abort not just a clump of cells, but an actual, living “child.”

    but will return the decision to the states, where it started pre-Roe and where it belongs.

    Can you please explain the logic here? If the fetus is a child with all the inalienable rights of a born child, then why does the question of abortion belong with the states? It’s okay for California to deny the right to life of a child?

    . . .

    The only way this makes sense to me is if the argument is that the constitution does not define when life begins so therefore states should be able to define it. But this seems like the same kind of argument that was made about slavery.

    Please elaborate.

    First, it is government for the people, by the people.

    And the people are not in one accord on this issue. We are clearly and unequivocally divided.

    To put this at the highest level of government, abortion wins and we are all culpable. To put it at the states, some states get to be more moral than other states because their people are more moral than other states.

    That protects the moral people.

    Unless you want a divorce. Do you want secession? Because the only way for a heavily divided nation to be held together peacefully and without totalitarianism is to allow for federalism to flourish.

    I would just add here that abortion is hardly unique in this regard. Under our Constitution, the federal government has certain enumerated powers, while the police power and enforcement of common and civil law has always been left to the states. Murder, rape, assault, and theft are defined by state law codes plus legal precedent.

    Now [snip]

    Is it consistent to say that the Constitution states when it comes to the right to bear arms? But there is no right to life in the Constitution?

    Check the 14th. Second sentence, 3rd clause.

    The reason many don’t think that gives the federal government the power to protect the unborn is: That sentence of the 14th only applies to the unborn if they are persons, and we might need a law to specify that they are persons, but the power to make that specification is not given to the federal government.

    The left knows they are persons. That is why they use weasel phrases like choice, reproductive rights, etc. Don’t let them get away with it. AlwYs refer to it as killing an innocent baby. 

    • #52
  23. Unsk Member
    Unsk
    @Unsk

    jaWes: Can you please explain the logic here? If the fetus is a child with all the inalienable rights of a born child, then why does the question of abortion belong with the states? It’s okay for California to deny the right to life of a child?

    Damn Straight.

    First of all, Roe vs Wade from the standpoint of the inalienable right to life of the unborn child is far superior to current law (yes, Roe vs Wade was overturned for something more evil decades ago) and to what I have read of this new Supreme Court  states rights abortion  ruling.

    Roe v Wade recognized that when a fetus is viable to live outside  the womb, then in 1973, at six months, ( now 20 weeks) the fetus had an inalienable right to life.  Fifth Amendment …… the right to LIFE, liberty and property.  It is in the Constitution! Also how can one baby be born at 20 weeks with all the rights of a citizen where another of the same age be denied those same rights? Equal protection would seem to insure the equal rights of both. 

    This new ruling does virtually nothing to prevent abortion; it is a pyrrhic victory of sorts because only allows some states to ban it while it essentially opens the flood gates to aborting of born babies in other states, because you know now there is no inalienable right to life. 

    That is the problem with this court. It refuses to enforce the Constitution .  We are not a democracy; we are a Constitutional Republic where one’s inalienable rights trump the will of the voters, but this court consistently allows our inalienable rights to be trampled.

    Yes, I believe abortion to be immoral. But there is a difference between what should be moral and what should legal. The first Amendment with the both the Freedom of Religion and the Freedom of speech demands that we as citizen respect the religious practices and opinions of others and we are absolutely not to impose through the law our religious practices upon others, but that is what the pro-life and pro-abortion side both do.   

    The founding fathers knew that relgious passions needs to be diffused, and understood the value of respecting the practices of others to diffuse   those passions. .  There had been horrible religious wars in Europe in both the 17th and 18th centuries where millions died., because each side refused to respect the religions of others, so the founding fathers were well aware of unrestrained religious fighting could do.  

    continued

     

    • #53
  24. Unsk Member
    Unsk
    @Unsk

    The issue of whether a baby before viability is a human being is a moral question, and we are called to respect the rights of others to make that choice. That is not to say, other improvements cannot be made to Roe that would limit abortions big time in a way far more successfully that this proposed ruling. 

    Why for instance, is there a women’s right to choose? Shouldn’t it  be that both the father and mother have to agree to abort a child? But if that were the law, wouldn’t a whole bunch of young people be a lot more conscious of the repercussions of sex? Casual sex would  quickly become a thing of the past. 

    Also, if both sides of the abortion question were respected then abortions could no longer be promoted in school or by health agencies, or could they be financed by the government. Abortion on demand no more. 

    But in the end, the best way to reduce abortions is to change the attitudes of so many young people that young fetuses are disposable. That is the way to reduce abortions.

     

    • #54
  25. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    He’s old and daft, his mouth still operating on the assumption that everything that comes from upstairs is solid. But because he is old and daft, his brain reached for a neutral term – well, neutral to his side – like “fetus” or “pregnancy, ” and came up with child, because in the end that’s what his brain knows it to be. Because he is old and daft, he had no idea what he had just revealed. It now falls to the young and clever to defend not his words, but his basic point, which is warblegarble unelected handmaidenstale women’s health.

    As for the second point, well, that’s the left: religions are absolutely at sea when it comes to defining human life, and all the pediatricians are agreed when it comes to “gender affirming care.”

    Too charitable, James. Biden has said stuff like this all his life.

    • #55
  26. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Unsk (View Comment):
    The issue of whether a baby before viability is a human being is a moral question

    No, I disagree. The issue of whether a baby before viability is a human being is a scientific question quite easily answered as follows:

    1. If it’s growing it’s alive (growth begins immediately upon conception with rapid cell division),
    2. If its parents are human, it’s human.

    Period. End of issue. Every person alive on the planet was once a pre-viable human being. It’s science, not morality. No one gets to choose her own scientific facts, whereas people can and often do relativize and subjectivize their moral sensibilities.

    Joe Biden said one truthful thing among all the lies: abortion is killing a child. I think the pro-abortion Left is fast approaching the moment when they won’t even deny it anymore. Certainly, Joe Biden has pushed them in that direction.

    • #56
  27. GlennAmurgis Coolidge
    GlennAmurgis
    @GlennAmurgis

    Paraphrase Denny Greene, Biden is who we thought he was. The man who created “Borking”,  harassed Justice Thomas, said Mitt Romney will put you back in chains would be a demagogue on this issue. 

    • #57
  28. Unsk Member
    Unsk
    @Unsk

    Western Chauvinist:

    No, I disagree. The issue of whether a baby before viability is a human being is a scientific question quite easily answered as follows:

    1. If it’s growing it’s alive (growth begins immediately upon conception with rapid cell division),
    2. If it’s parents are human, it’s human.

    Period. End of issue. Every person alive on the planet was once a pre-viable human being. It’s science, not morality. No one gets to choose her own scientific facts, whereas people can and often do relativize and subjectivize their moral sensibilities.

    In many ways I tend to agree with your points. From a moral point of view certainly. But my point is that the Freedom of Religion  is one of those inalienable rights that doesn’t give you, if properly decided and enforced ,everything you want, and that was done on purpose by the Founding Fathers to diffuse religious passions.   The issue of whether a baby before viability is a human being, while you make some very fine points,  is still a very contentious and inflammatory moral/religious issue no matter how you slice it . Religious issues, unfortunately in this world,  are often not reconciled by logic or scientific proof. 

    • #58
  29. HeavyWater Inactive
    HeavyWater
    @HeavyWater

    Unsk (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist:

    No, I disagree. The issue of whether a baby before viability is a human being is a scientific question quite easily answered as follows:

    1. If it’s growing it’s alive (growth begins immediately upon conception with rapid cell division),
    2. If it’s parents are human, it’s human.

    Period. End of issue. Every person alive on the planet was once a pre-viable human being. It’s science, not morality. No one gets to choose her own scientific facts, whereas people can and often do relativize and subjectivize their moral sensibilities.

    In many ways I tend to agree with your points. From a moral point of view certainly. But my point is that the Freedom of Religion is one of those inalienable rights that doesn’t give you, if properly decided and enforced ,everything you want, and that was done on purpose by the Founding Fathers to diffuse religious passions. The issue of whether a baby before viability is a human being, while you make some very fine points, is still a very contentious and inflammatory moral/religious issue no matter how you slice it . Religious issues, unfortunately in this world, are often not reconciled by logic or scientific proof.

    I read some of Alito’s decision yesterday and one of the points Alito made is that the Constitution does not mention abortion, does not provide a right to abortion and, therefore, the elected branches of government have the power to decide abortion issues.  

    One of the things Alito mentioned was that at the time the 14th amendment to the US Constitution was ratified (the amendment where some have argued that the right to abortion exists), many states had restrictions on abortion.  So, Alito seems to argue that 14th amendment was not understood as providing a constitutional right to abortion.  

    • #59
  30. I Walton Member
    I Walton
    @IWalton

    Maybe it’s more complicated.  Some folks have excess power so their self interested behavior has greater impact and most of it is negative if the power is political.  We’ve reached a point where political power and commercial industrial power overlap and that’s a fundamental problem, but not new, it’s the way the world worked until we came along with our bottom up commercial society and transformed the world.   We lost that division and behave as if we hadn’t.  Political power, if we remember, was known to be ignorant and dangerous, so we wanted it limited and as close to the people as possible.  But we let it grow and states accumulated excess power and were inept and corrupt but instead of reversing it we moved the power to orderly more civilized appearing federal bureaucrats and organized them with rules and limits.   Now we have unaccountable, self interested (they are human after all) folks that obviously can’t run the most complex diverse spread out country in history from their limited self interested place so we don’t know what do do.    It can’t be fixed with better people, we are what we are.  We have to figure out how to eliminate 90% of the bureaucracy.  It’d be easy if we didn’t face China, we’d just decentralize and some would eliminate dead weight and the rest might learn.

    • #60
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.