DeSantis Understands the Best Defense Is a Good Offense

 

Gov. Ron DeSantis’s tussle with Disney has befuddled many right-of-center commentators. Some insist eliminating the Reedy Creek Improvement District is fundamentally anti-conservative. Others cheer on DeSantis and want other red-state governors to emulate him. The debate has strained ideological alliances, with pundits usually on the same side bickering on social media, podcasts, and tit-for-tat think pieces.

Luckily for the intelligentsia, I will settle the debate once and for all. DeSantis killing Disney’s sweetheart deal was A) conservative and, B) the correct decision. Here’s why.

For decades, conservatives have played defense on social issues. Then, when they’ve lost the social issue de jour, they play defense on the next issue, and the one after that. This is how we’ve arrived at teachers encouraging third graders to question their gender and reassuring Jake that turning into Jessica is just a scalpel and hormone shot away.

Some Republican thinkers insist that even this isn’t quite the hill to die on, there is no slippery slope, and we need to demonstrate our acceptance and goodwill to progressives. Why aren’t we focusing on economic issues? Besides, doesn’t Jessica look adorable in her sundress? The Florida GOP enacted the bill they wanted, beat Disney, so let’s move on. Punishing them by ending Reedy Creek is just churlish.

If Gov. DeSantis was satisfied with playing defense, this would be correct. Instead, he has chosen offense.

Defeating Woke, Inc., is the goal, not a single win on a small issue. He showed Disney that pro forma DEI press releases have a cost. When you wrongly call the governor, statehouse, and a majority of Florida voters anti-gay and transphobic, there will be a price to pay. When you promise to work to overturn the people’s will and defeat their representatives, pushback will follow. The horrible punishment? Being treated like any other company.

This message wasn’t only delivered to Disney. MLB can pull an all-star game from Georgia; do that south of the border and maybe you don’t get that new ballpark in Miami. Huge multinational corporations can ridicule red-state residents all they want, but they might want to diversify their stock portfolio first. Disney stock has fallen 30 percent in the past six months. The next would-be woke CEO might decide it’s wiser not to spout off.

None of this violates free speech. Slam a state government all you want, but don’t expect special carve-outs for your shareholders. Being a huge multinational doesn’t guarantee you extraconstitutional rights.

An oft-cited comparison is San Antonio trying to keep Chick-fil-A out of their airport for the company’s Christian views. Since The Big Cluck didn’t have any sweetheart deals with the city, this is a non-starter. They should be treated like any other fast food joint. And Disney can be treated like any other entertainment company.

Another criticism is that DeSantis is violating conservativism by meddling in the free market.

It might violate libertarianism, but not conservatism. At least since the 1980s, conservatism has been a three-legged stool, aligning economic freedom, national defense, and social issues. A materialist theory like libertarianism reduces humans to homo economicus; all that matters to human flourishing is the almighty dollar. But conservatism asserts there is much more to life, including upholding a standard of public values and protection from foreign threats.

Libertarianism often aligns with conservatism, but not always. A conservative might want to ban a strip club from opening in his neighborhood; a libertarian would insist “Sketchy Sammy’s Boom Boom Room” is just fine. DeSantis is a conservative, not a libertarian, so he has not violated his stated principles.

Besides, the Reedy Creek legislation won’t take effect until June 2023; there’s plenty of time for the two sides to come to an agreement. And they probably will.

The last anti-DeSanti argument is not what he did, but why he did it. This is far too Jesuitical for a simple political debate. Not even Thomas Aquinas could parse the deepest longings of a human’s heart. We’d make more progress counting angels on pinheads.

It is long past time for the GOP to be as aggressive on social issues as they have been on economic issues. Pushing back against woke insanity is wildly popular with the base, independents, and even the middle manager wondering why she/they/xe needs to add pronouns to her email signature.

DeSantis understands that the best defense is a good offense.

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  1. Gazpacho Grande' Coolidge
    Gazpacho Grande'
    @ChrisCampion

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Jon Gabriel, Ed.:

     

    Luckily for the intelligentsia, I will settle the debate once and for all. DeSantis killing Disney’s sweetheart deal was A) conservative and, B) the correct decision. Here’s why.

    This news is going to disappoint many here on Ricochet who keep insisting that republicans are useless.

    Despite all evidence to the contrary.  DeSantis is just Florida.

    • #31
  2. Doug Kimball Thatcher
    Doug Kimball
    @DougKimball

    Too many Republicans want to dance on the knife edge, that is to claim to be conservative while secretely placating the opposition.  Few Republicans come right out and defy their voters and open up their dance cards exclusively to the Left.  There will always be those who believe this to be an act of moral rectitude and faux courage; we have them on both sides; (they are called call them politicians for a reason.)  No, it is the sneaky ones who would rather avoid a fight, who say but don’t do, who are the problem.  It takes no courage to do nothing, especially when doing something always labels you anti-something – gay, black, science, earth – you name it. 

    DeSantis has shown that you can stand up.  You can state the obvious.  You can do something.  And you can withstand the rising criticism that results.  And in so doing, you can extoll the value of conservatism, truth and right.  Musk, with his $250 billion buffer, provides another example.  Trump was of course the first example, and he was excoriated, impeached, investigated, spied upon, banished and replaced. 

    These are all imperfect human beings.  But they give us hope we can defeat the Left and stop their lunatic, ineffective, desperate, self-serving, irrational and destructive influence in our governance. 

    • #32
  3. Tyrion Lannister Inactive
    Tyrion Lannister
    @TyrionLannister

    Stina (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Jon Gabriel, Ed.:

    Luckily for the intelligentsia, I will settle the debate once and for all. DeSantis killing Disney’s sweetheart deal was A) conservative and, B) the correct decision. Here’s why.

    This news is going to disappoint many here on Ricochet who keep insisting that republicans are useless.

    They don’t do that. They say the Republican PARTY – at least/especially the establishment part/version – is useless. Or worse, actually collaborators.

    I don’t think so. You talk as if they were criticizing a vague symbol of Republicanism. They were in fact trashing all current Republican office holders. There was even a post titled “Elon Musk Does More for the Conservative Base than the Entire Conservative Movement Has for Decades.” Go back a re-read some of the comments that were claiming that all Republican office-holders were absolutely worthless and never did anything for the movement. I couldn’t convince any one of them of a single accomplishment that Republicans have achieved.

    https://ricochet.com/1214943/elon-musk-does-more-for-the-conservative-base-than-the-entire-conservative-movement-has-for-decades/

    Or try this one – “Spineless and Pathetic Loser” in which the author contends that electing Republicans will not change a thing.

    https://ricochet.com/1217671/spineless-and-pathetic-loser/

    DeSantis being the only one doing this is proof of the argument that the GOP is useless. The party commentariat and leadership criticizing DeSantis for it is proof that the leadership is useless.

    DeSantis was NOT the GOP favorite for the Florida Governor primary. I’m actually shocked we got him and that he’s been THIS GOOD.

    And that shock exists because the GOP is useless.

    The GOP congress in Florida passed the legislation that DeSantis got to sign.  It’s a Conservative win.

    • #33
  4. Chris O Coolidge
    Chris O
    @ChrisO

    Jon Gabriel, Ed.: It might violate libertarianism, but not conservatism.

    Percival (View Comment):
    Enforcing the strictures that are in place for other businesses is not exactly retaliation. What the government giveth, the government can taketh away.

    Jon, I don’t think it violates libertarianism to restore someone’s status in the market to something akin to its competitors.

    I love Disney. Walt was already gone when I was growing up, but he was in our living room every Sunday evening and I got it. I saw in his lined face a tremendous capacity for joy. That’s what he sold and I bought in big time.

    But, of course, it’s not his company anymore, nor the family’s. The mystique is long gone, briefly recaptured before Eisner’s acquisition spree. It’s an entertainment conglomerate with intellectual property that appeals throughout the world. Despite that, they’re finding a way to screw it all up, snatch defeat from overwhelming victory.

    Faced with the prospect of losing its property and market privileges, Disney has to decide whether to continue its political activism. It has clear messages from the market and, now, a body elected by the people surrounding its most significant physical property. Looking at the background of its board, I’m not seeing a group that has the pulse of the street, but there is reason to hope.

    Let them decide. Because it exists in the marketplace and others will pick up the torch and, someday, buy Disney outright until they too repeat the cycle.

    • #34
  5. Tyrion Lannister Inactive
    Tyrion Lannister
    @TyrionLannister

    Franco (View Comment):

    Yes, it’s quite an easy distinction to make, and there are dozens of great examples of this going back decades.

    Sorry Steven, your argument omits serial betrayals, broken promises and outright contemptuous actions perpetrated by key figures in the GOP against the base going back at least 20 years. And these actions and positions continue to this day.

    We’ve had this discussion over and over with people like you already. We’ve considered every possibility, every mitigating circumstance, every reason and excuse, and after twenty years of this farce we are now left with incontrovertible evidence that the GOP at its core has been – and continues to be – craven, weak, duplicitous and venal.

    One Republican governor shows some fortitude and gumption, and you want to spin the entire narrative as though Republicans are now, and were, all like DeSantis? I don’t think so.

    Part 1:

    Your side always assumes the GOP represents just you.  The Republican party consists of many different groups of people with different views, from different regions of the country.  There isn’t some vast right-wing GOP conspiracy to lie to you to get your vote, then purposefully stab you in the back.  That’s just tinfoil-hat conspiracy nonsense.  Politicians aren’t lying to you for your vote- they have competing groups and competing interests within their own party they have to balance.

    The hard truth which so many who cast stones at the GOP refuse to accept is that they are a tiny, tiny minority in a vast sea of conflicting interests.  You are a minority.  You vote for a coalition that mostly agrees with you, and that is opposed to what you mostly agree with.  That’s it.  I’d guess that only 20-30% of the Republican population actually agrees with me on everything.  The rest of the Republican party agrees with me on key issues and disagrees with me on a bit.  That’s called reality.  The people you vote for might only be marginally better than the Democrats because the coalition doesn’t represent Trumpist views, or far right views, or globalist views, or nationalist views, or libertarian views.  It has to balance all of those competing interests.  That means a lot of moderates are going to get into power- because guess what- most of the voting population hovers around the squishy middle.  I’d LOVE to have everyone be as far right as I am.  Frankly, I’m probably farther right than just about everyone who is a site member (some of my views probably would curl people’s hair).  But reality says I’m in a tiny minority.  I have to accept that I’m a minority to get anything I want passed.  

    • #35
  6. Tyrion Lannister Inactive
    Tyrion Lannister
    @TyrionLannister

    Part 2:
    There have been so many people complaining about the GOP on this site recently. Sure, complain about them. Threaten to throw the bums out. That’s fine. But if you don’t vote for the GOP, you are just cutting your nose to spite your face, because the GOP is the best vehicle to forward your views. The reality is the founders designed a system that naturally moves towards a 2 party system. We already have a group of people in the party who cut their nose – they are called the Never-Trump group. You can join them if being governed by moderate Republicans is too much of a burden. As for those who remain, vote for your preferences are in the primary, but you damn well better vote for the nominee whoever it is- because the alternative is a hell of a lot worse (and maybe you’ll get lucky, and your preferred candidate wins! The same applies for the the rest of the party- they better return the favor).

     

    • #36
  7. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Tyrion Lannister (View Comment):
    As for those who remain, vote for your preferences are in the primary, but you damn well better vote for the nominee whoever it is- because the alternative is a hell of a lot worse (and maybe you’ll get lucky, and your preferred candidate wins! The same applies for the the rest of the party- they better return the favor).

    This is exactly where that system broke down.  They did not return the favor.

    • #37
  8. Jon Gabriel, Ed. Admin
    Jon Gabriel, Ed.
    @jon

    Chris O (View Comment):
    Jon, I don’t think it violates libertarianism to restore someone’s status in the market to something akin to its competitors.

    Agreed. I said it “might” violate libertarianism since I doubt they all agree on this issue. Many would side with removing  Disney’s special perks while others might think it violates free speech.

    • #38
  9. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Stina (View Comment):

    The way we talk about Texas, Abbott should be doing exactly what DeSantis has done, but Texas is either GOP central or it has been used by GOP central to curry voter approval.

    Abbott is the only other Governor pushing back against the left and he pales next to Florida Man.

    I haven’t heard recently, is Abbott still bussing illegals to DC?

    • #39
  10. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Percival (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):

    None of this violates free speech. Slam a state government all you want, but don’t expect special carve-outs for your shareholders. Being a huge multinational doesn’t guarantee you extraconstitutional rights.

     

     

    I agree but that’s because I interpret the Constitution strictly. The first amendment only means you can’t be criminally punished for your speech. But I’m pretty sure there’s legal precedent which expands that to the kind of retaliation Florida did here.

    Enforcing the strictures that are in place for other businesses is not exactly retaliation. What the government giveth, the government can taketh away.

    Which is actually something conservatives – the real ones, anyway – have been arguing for years or decades, at minimum.

    • #40
  11. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Tyrion Lannister (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Jon Gabriel, Ed.:

    Luckily for the intelligentsia, I will settle the debate once and for all. DeSantis killing Disney’s sweetheart deal was A) conservative and, B) the correct decision. Here’s why.

    This news is going to disappoint many here on Ricochet who keep insisting that republicans are useless.

    They don’t do that. They say the Republican PARTY – at least/especially the establishment part/version – is useless. Or worse, actually collaborators.

    I don’t think so. You talk as if they were criticizing a vague symbol of Republicanism. They were in fact trashing all current Republican office holders. There was even a post titled “Elon Musk Does More for the Conservative Base than the Entire Conservative Movement Has for Decades.” Go back a re-read some of the comments that were claiming that all Republican office-holders were absolutely worthless and never did anything for the movement. I couldn’t convince any one of them of a single accomplishment that Republicans have achieved.

    https://ricochet.com/1214943/elon-musk-does-more-for-the-conservative-base-than-the-entire-conservative-movement-has-for-decades/

    Or try this one – “Spineless and Pathetic Loser” in which the author contends that electing Republicans will not change a thing.

    https://ricochet.com/1217671/spineless-and-pathetic-loser/

    DeSantis being the only one doing this is proof of the argument that the GOP is useless. The party commentariat and leadership criticizing DeSantis for it is proof that the leadership is useless.

    DeSantis was NOT the GOP favorite for the Florida Governor primary. I’m actually shocked we got him and that he’s been THIS GOOD.

    And that shock exists because the GOP is useless.

    The GOP congress in Florida passed the legislation that DeSantis got to sign. It’s a Conservative win.

    Florida doesn’t have a congress, it has a legislature.  State legislatures and the people in them can be very different from representation on the national level.

    • #41
  12. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Here is something I posted elsewhere:

    Scott Adams called what DeSantis did in revoking Disney’s privileges “retaliation,” and said DeSantis should be impeached for retaliating.

    I disagree. I agree that what DeSantis did was retaliation. But I also believe that in this case it was merited. The left and right have been playing a game of Prisoners’ Dilemma for years. In Prisoners’ Dilemma everyone gains if both cooperate, but one player gains more and the other player loses a lot when one player refuses to cooperate. (The player that refuses to cooperate gains big,) If both refuse to cooperate, they each lose a little.

    The optimum strategy of the game is to cooperate on the first round, and then do what your opponent did on the previous round for all subsequent rounds. You cooperate. If he does not cooperate on that round you do not cooperate in the next round. If he cooperates in the first round, you cooperate in the next. And yes, not cooperating in the next round is retaliation. That is the point. For years conservatives have insisted on cooperating even – and especially after – the other side did not cooperate.

    Similarly, Disney played a red card in a previous round, so DeSantis played a red card in this one. If DeSantis continues playing red cards gratuitously after Disney starts cooperating again, then Adams might have a point. But right now?

    The flag we conservative like has a snake with the words “Don’t Tread on Me.” If someone treads on you while you are flying that flag, they deserve to get bit. They have to get bit, or your words are hollow. If they don’t tread on you again, you leave them alone. That is what this is about. Disney tread on Florida.

    Sounds as though Scott Adams has lost his mind. 

    • #42
  13. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Jon Gabriel, Ed.:

     

    Luckily for the intelligentsia, I will settle the debate once and for all. DeSantis killing Disney’s sweetheart deal was A) conservative and, B) the correct decision. Here’s why.

    This news is going to disappoint many here on Ricochet who keep insisting that republicans are useless.

    DeSantis should be the rule for the GOP, but the fact that he gets so much attention indicates, to me anyway, that he is the exception. 

    • #43
  14. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Tyrion Lannister (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Jon Gabriel, Ed.:

    Luckily for the intelligentsia, I will settle the debate once and for all. DeSantis killing Disney’s sweetheart deal was A) conservative and, B) the correct decision. Here’s why.

    This news is going to disappoint many here on Ricochet who keep insisting that republicans are useless.

    They don’t do that. They say the Republican PARTY – at least/especially the establishment part/version – is useless. Or worse, actually collaborators.

    I don’t think so. You talk as if they were criticizing a vague symbol of Republicanism. They were in fact trashing all current Republican office holders. There was even a post titled “Elon Musk Does More for the Conservative Base than the Entire Conservative Movement Has for Decades.” Go back a re-read some of the comments that were claiming that all Republican office-holders were absolutely worthless and never did anything for the movement. I couldn’t convince any one of them of a single accomplishment that Republicans have achieved.

    https://ricochet.com/1214943/elon-musk-does-more-for-the-conservative-base-than-the-entire-conservative-movement-has-for-decades/

    Or try this one – “Spineless and Pathetic Loser” in which the author contends that electing Republicans will not change a thing.

    https://ricochet.com/1217671/spineless-and-pathetic-loser/

    DeSantis being the only one doing this is proof of the argument that the GOP is useless. The party commentariat and leadership criticizing DeSantis for it is proof that the leadership is useless.

    DeSantis was NOT the GOP favorite for the Florida Governor primary. I’m actually shocked we got him and that he’s been THIS GOOD.

    And that shock exists because the GOP is useless.

    The GOP congress in Florida passed the legislation that DeSantis got to sign. It’s a Conservative win.

    Florida doesn’t have a congress, it has a legislature. State legislatures and the people in them can be very different from representation on the national level.

    For one thing, their lack of notoriety makes them easier to replace without thinking. One reason I don’t mind a federalist flame thrower at the top… the states should be doing more than the federal.

    • #44
  15. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Django (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Jon Gabriel, Ed.:

     

    Luckily for the intelligentsia, I will settle the debate once and for all. DeSantis killing Disney’s sweetheart deal was A) conservative and, B) the correct decision. Here’s why.

    This news is going to disappoint many here on Ricochet who keep insisting that republicans are useless.

    DeSantis should be the rule for the GOP, but the fact that he gets so much attention indicates, to me anyway, that he is the exception.

    Perhaps even the exception that proves the rule?

    • #45
  16. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Django (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Here is something I posted elsewhere:

    Scott Adams called what DeSantis did in revoking Disney’s privileges “retaliation,” and said DeSantis should be impeached for retaliating.

    I disagree. I agree that what DeSantis did was retaliation. But I also believe that in this case it was merited. The left and right have been playing a game of Prisoners’ Dilemma for years. In Prisoners’ Dilemma everyone gains if both cooperate, but one player gains more and the other player loses a lot when one player refuses to cooperate. (The player that refuses to cooperate gains big,) If both refuse to cooperate, they each lose a little.

    The optimum strategy of the game is to cooperate on the first round, and then do what your opponent did on the previous round for all subsequent rounds. You cooperate. If he does not cooperate on that round you do not cooperate in the next round. If he cooperates in the first round, you cooperate in the next. And yes, not cooperating in the next round is retaliation. That is the point. For years conservatives have insisted on cooperating even – and especially after – the other side did not cooperate.

    Similarly, Disney played a red card in a previous round, so DeSantis played a red card in this one. If DeSantis continues playing red cards gratuitously after Disney starts cooperating again, then Adams might have a point. But right now?

    The flag we conservative like has a snake with the words “Don’t Tread on Me.” If someone treads on you while you are flying that flag, they deserve to get bit. They have to get bit, or your words are hollow. If they don’t tread on you again, you leave them alone. That is what this is about. Disney tread on Florida.

    Sounds as though Scott Adams has lost his mind.

    As if retaliation is necessarily a bad thing, always.

    • #46
  17. DrewInWisconsin, Oik! Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik!
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Jon Gabriel, Ed.:

    Another criticism is that DeSantis is violating conservativism by meddling in the free market.

    It might violate libertarianism, but not conservatism. At least since the 1980s, conservatism has been a three-legged stool, aligning economic freedom, national defense, and social issues. A materialist theory like libertarianism reduces humans to homo economicus; all that matters to human flourishing is the almighty dollar. But conservatism asserts there is much more to life, including upholding a standard of public values and protection from foreign threats.

    Libertarianism often aligns with conservatism, but not always. A conservative might want to ban a strip club from opening in his neighborhood; a libertarian would insist “Sketchy Sammy’s Boom Boom Room” is just fine. DeSantis is a conservative, not a libertarian, so he has not violated his stated principles.

    So much this.

    From my perspective, the conservative/libertarian alliance has hollowed out conservatism and destroyed it from within.

     

    • #47
  18. DrewInWisconsin, Oik! Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik!
    @DrewInWisconsin

    James Madison (View Comment):
    As a counter to DeSantis, I heard the Progs (sounds more reptilian than Progressives) in Floria are suing to keep the Bible out of the public schools claiming bestiality and rape appear.

    Pretty sure it’s already been removed from schools across the nation. Progs won that fight. Do they not realize that?

    • #48
  19. DrewInWisconsin, Oik! Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik!
    @DrewInWisconsin

    This is where I stand:

    • #49
  20. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik! (View Comment):

    James Madison (View Comment):
    As a counter to DeSantis, I heard the Progs (sounds more reptilian than Progressives) in Floria are suing to keep the Bible out of the public schools claiming bestiality and rape appear.

    Pretty sure it’s already been removed from schools across the nation. Progs won that fight. Do they not realize that?

    Yes, but they can use the idea to whip up their legions of brainless idiots.

    • #50
  21. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik! (View Comment):

    James Madison (View Comment):
    As a counter to DeSantis, I heard the Progs (sounds more reptilian than Progressives) in Floria are suing to keep the Bible out of the public schools claiming bestiality and rape appear.

    Pretty sure it’s already been removed from schools across the nation. Progs won that fight. Do they not realize that?

    Yes, but they can use the idea to whip up their legions of brainless idiots.

    The same idiots who don’t know about the Afghanistan “withdrawal,” and so much more.

    • #51
  22. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik! (View Comment):

    Jon Gabriel, Ed.:

    Another criticism is that DeSantis is violating conservativism by meddling in the free market.

    It might violate libertarianism, but not conservatism. At least since the 1980s, conservatism has been a three-legged stool, aligning economic freedom, national defense, and social issues. A materialist theory like libertarianism reduces humans to homo economicus; all that matters to human flourishing is the almighty dollar. But conservatism asserts there is much more to life, including upholding a standard of public values and protection from foreign threats.

    Libertarianism often aligns with conservatism, but not always. A conservative might want to ban a strip club from opening in his neighborhood; a libertarian would insist “Sketchy Sammy’s Boom Boom Room” is just fine. DeSantis is a conservative, not a libertarian, so he has not violated his stated principles.

    So much this.

    From my perspective, the conservative/libertarian alliance has hollowed out conservatism and destroyed it from within.

    I have not been following the Florida situation all that closely, but if Disney was given special consideration and tax breaks, why was that not considered meddling in the free market? If they cancelled all of the special considerations, it would seem to me that Florida has corrected itself and stopped meddling in the free market.

    • #52
  23. Dotorimuk Coolidge
    Dotorimuk
    @Dotorimuk

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Here is something I posted elsewhere:

    Scott Adams called what DeSantis did in revoking Disney’s privileges “retaliation,” and said DeSantis should be impeached for retaliating.

    I disagree. I agree that what DeSantis did was retaliation. But I also believe that in this case it was merited. The left and right have been playing a game of Prisoners’ Dilemma for years. In Prisoners’ Dilemma everyone gains if both cooperate, but one player gains more and the other player loses a lot when one player refuses to cooperate. (The player that refuses to cooperate gains big,) If both refuse to cooperate, they each lose a little.

    The optimum strategy of the game is to cooperate on the first round, and then do what your opponent did on the previous round for all subsequent rounds. You cooperate. If he does not cooperate on that round you do not cooperate in the next round. If he cooperates in the first round, you cooperate in the next. And yes, not cooperating in the next round is retaliation. That is the point. For years conservatives have insisted on cooperating even – and especially after – the other side did not cooperate.

    Similarly, Disney played a red card in a previous round, so DeSantis played a red card in this one. If DeSantis continues playing red cards gratuitously after Disney starts cooperating again, then Adams might have a point. But right now?

    The flag we conservative like has a snake with the words “Don’t Tread on Me.” If someone treads on you while you are flying that flag, they deserve to get bit. They have to get bit, or your words are hollow. If they don’t tread on you again, you leave them alone. That is what this is about. Disney tread on Florida.

    For some reason, Scott Adams is WAY too invested in the trans thing.

    • #53
  24. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Was the original deal with Disney good for Florida?

    • #54
  25. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Was the original deal with Disney good for Florida?

    No doubt it was initially, and the deal would have been structured as an incentive to bring them there.  But they’re there, they’re not leaving, so there is no more need for the incentive.  Should a signing bonus be paid every year forever?

    • #55
  26. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Was the original deal with Disney good for Florida?

    No doubt it was initially, and the deal would have been structured as an incentive to bring them there. But they’re there, they’re not leaving, so there is no more need for the incentive. Should a signing bonus be paid every year forever?

    I should have said: was it still good for Florida (in terms of public expenditure) last year?  Currently Disney covers municipal services (and policing?) in the special district.  Who pays for these after Disney stops, will they be of the same standard, will that have an effect on Disney’s performance and thereby on tourism dollars coming to the State?

    Edited to add:

    According to a Forbes article, not so good for locals:

    Orange County Mayor Jerry Demings, whose county is one of two that covers Walt Disney World, told reporters Thursday that Reedy Creek being dissolved would be a “net sum loss” for taxpayers, as the county will likely now have to pay for emergency and law enforcement services that Disney previously reimbursed it for.

    Right now, Disney pays taxes to Orange and Osceola counties, but all of the government-related services on Walt Disney World property—like fixing roads, fire department services and more—are paid for by Disney and Reedy Creek and not by county taxpayers…

    Orange and Osceola counties will also likely be forced to assume Reedy Creek’s debts—which total nearly $1 billion, per credit analysis firm Fitch Ratings—and Reedy Creek currently generates $105 million in tax revenue for itself every year that won’t get transferred to the counties if it dissolves.

    Orange County tax collector Scott Randolph tweeted the county will take on an extra $163 million in costs per year, between Reedy Creek’s missing tax revenue and its debts, and Randolph told WFTV the county will likely have to raise property taxes by 20% to 25% to make up for it.

    However, both Orange and Oceola Counties, which is where this will happen, voted for Joe Biden in 2020, so perhaps it’s 4D Chess after all?

    • #56
  27. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Judge Mental (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Was the original deal with Disney good for Florida?

    No doubt it was initially, and the deal would have been structured as an incentive to bring them there. But they’re there, they’re not leaving, so there is no more need for the incentive. Should a signing bonus be paid every year forever?

    I should have said: was it still good for Florida (in terms of public expenditure) last year? Currently Disney covers municipal services (and policing?) in the special district. Who pays for these after Disney stops, will they be of the same standard, will that have an effect on Disney’s performance and thereby on tourism dollars coming to the State?

    Edited to add:

    According to a Forbes article, not so good for locals:

    Orange County Mayor Jerry Demings, whose county is one of two that covers Walt Disney World, told reporters Thursday that Reedy Creek being dissolved would be a “net sum loss” for taxpayers, as the county will likely now have to pay for emergency and law enforcement services that Disney previously reimbursed it for.

    Right now, Disney pays taxes to Orange and Osceola counties, but all of the government-related services on Walt Disney World property—like fixing roads, fire department services and more—are paid for by Disney and Reedy Creek and not by county taxpayers…

    Orange and Osceola counties will also likely be forced to assume Reedy Creek’s debts—which total nearly $1 billion, per credit analysis firm Fitch Ratings—and Reedy Creek currently generates $105 million in tax revenue for itself every year that won’t get transferred to the counties if it dissolves.

    Orange County tax collector Scott Randolph tweeted the county will take on an extra $163 million in costs per year, between Reedy Creek’s missing tax revenue and its debts, and Randolph told WFTV the county will likely have to raise property taxes by 20% to 25% to make up for it.

    However, both Orange and Oceola Counties, which is where this will happen, voted for Joe Biden in 2020, so perhaps it’s 4D Chess after all?

    How much would property taxes have to go up, for the Disney property taxes to pay for it?

    Maybe the assessed value of the Disney property needs to be re-evaluated?

    • #57
  28. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    kedavis (View Comment):

    How much would property taxes have to go up, for the Disney property taxes to pay for it?

    Maybe the assessed value of the Disney property needs to be re-evaluated?

    If Disney is smart they should talk to Trump before the evaluation.

    • #58
  29. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    I seriously doubt this arrangement will publicize Reedy Creek’s private debt. That sounds like fear mongering.

    And how has Disney been paying OC taxes if it is it’s own municipality?

    How much trust do I have for democrats and the news reporting?

    • #59
  30. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik! (View Comment):

    Jon Gabriel, Ed.:

    Another criticism is that DeSantis is violating conservativism by meddling in the free market.

    It might violate libertarianism, but not conservatism. At least since the 1980s, conservatism has been a three-legged stool, aligning economic freedom, national defense, and social issues. A materialist theory like libertarianism reduces humans to homo economicus; all that matters to human flourishing is the almighty dollar. But conservatism asserts there is much more to life, including upholding a standard of public values and protection from foreign threats.

    Libertarianism often aligns with conservatism, but not always. A conservative might want to ban a strip club from opening in his neighborhood; a libertarian would insist “Sketchy Sammy’s Boom Boom Room” is just fine. DeSantis is a conservative, not a libertarian, so he has not violated his stated principles.

    So much this.

    From my perspective, the conservative/libertarian alliance has hollowed out conservatism and destroyed it from within.

     

    I make the powers that be really mad when I talk about this stuff, but the way we SUPPOSEDLY practiced anything approaching libertarianism or we didn’t practice it absolutely made everything worse and totally interfered with conservatism, including the social part.  People don’t get it. We did it all wrong if you want to restrain the size of government, keep people having agency, support family growth, and retard socialism. 

    Nobody’s going to do this, but they are talking about this on the current hidden forces podcast. It’s $15 a month. The interview with Grant Williams. The recent Russell Napier interview is similar except it’s very technical for most people. I don’t think there are transcripts.

    • #60
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